FBV vs FIRE

[jimmy 194]

On 11/7/2017 at 5:19 PM, GoalForFun said:

Are they a direct competitor though? One makes bench sharpeners, the other makes home sharpeners. LHSes are almost always going to go for the bench rig vs an automated one.

I heard some Pure Hockey are going with Sparz because they just can't hire quality sharpeners.  There is a rink complex in mass that has many of them. Personally i just can't see how a shop could use one, the stone does 40 pairs at best, even less considering the shop won't know what hollow is in the skate to begin with, which means more passes are required.

[bunnyman666 445]

Sparx has been gently taking over under-staffed pro shoppes everywhere, @jimmy

Edited June 18, 2018 by bunnyman666

[bunnyman666 445]

@jimmy Darn it- can’t edit the last post. 

The Sparx are taking over due to inexperienced sharpeners and places not wanting to hire good ones (i.e. pay the $$$).  The pro Sparx units do allow for a cross-grind capability, which does help with the number of passes. 

Not everybody wants to mail in blades. I am not picking on your business (or any other mail in sharpeners) by saying that, BTW. My Sparx does fantastic for me, and I can touch up my edges after every skate. Is it a good hand-sharpening? No. But the ability to get a consistent edge and not worry about the pot luck sharpenings is priceless. And I’d rather get a Sparx sharpening out some place than worry about whether or not my edges were going to be right. I have had more than one game ruined due to a wheel that was not dressed properly. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by bunnyman666

[stick9 890]

The rink @jimmy is referring to is the New England Sports Center. It’s an 8 sheet facility that houses all kinds of tournaments, leagues and travel teams. The shop runs 4 Sparx sharpeners and 1 Blademaster. I believe each Sparx is outfitted with a different wheel.

The labor and equipment needed to keep up with the demand just isn’t feasible, not for what they’re doing. It’s a smart play for them. 

As for PH in my area. I’ve had more bad than good. From my perspective, going automated is a plus.

Edited June 18, 2018 by stick9

[bunnyman666 445]

2 minutes ago, stick9 said:

The rink @jimmy is referring to is the rink where my league plays. It’s an 8 sheet facility that houses all kinds of tournaments and travel teams. The shop runs 4 Sparx sharpeners and 1 Blademaster. I believe each Sparx is outfitted with a different wheel.

The labor and equipment needed to keep up with the demand just isn’t feasible, not for what they’re doing. It’s a smart play for them. 

As for PH in my area. I’ve had more bad than good. From my perspective, going automated is a plus.

Yes- VERY true about automated. Again- poor local sharpening by hand will make you love automated.

[ViperRy 8]

I gave FBV a serious shot for months. Sent in runners numerous times to NoIcing so I know I was getting a quality cut. I went back to roh and was a stronger skater although I could feel the slight loss of glide. Then I got a sparx sharpener and have been pleased the FIRE cut. For me, The feeling FIRE gave me on my skates was in-between FBV and roh. I switch back and forth sometime between 5/6 fire and 11/16" ROH.

From my understanding, the tolerances are higher for FIRE whereas the tolerances for fbv are super low. If you're not getting your runners cut by extremely experienced and meticulous sharpener like NoIcing, I suggest sticking with FIRE. Your edges have to be close to dead even for a proper FBV cut. Moreover, sparx did a study testing numerous runners and holders. Almost all had some bend to them either due to the runner having a bend, the holder bending the runner, or both. The higher end runners like step having minimal. Even with the slightest bend fbv will lack an edge somewhere down the runner due to the low tolerance. This is why I take my runners out of the holder when sharpening for any grind just cause its very easy with the tuuk edge holders and it eliminates that variable. This is my opinion through my own research. Take it for what its worth, but I suggest you do your own research on fbv, tolerances, bends in runners/holders, ect.

If you are going to stick with FBV, I would have no one else but NoIcing sharpen your runners. I tried a couple LHS that I let FBV cut my spare runners when my main set was out at NoIcing. When trying them I would randomly hit the deck cause of no edge.

For what its worth, I can get my runner's edges after a Sparx fire cut down to what I believe is two ten-thousandths off when checking them with my HDI.

Edited June 23, 2018 by ViperRy

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

1 hour ago, ViperRy said:

 

If you are going to stick with FBV, I would have no one else but NoIcing sharpen your runners. 

LOL 

[ViperRy 8]

1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

LOL 

 

You're right, I should re-state that I'm speaking from experience solely in my area - MD/DC/NoVA. Also, I may not be privy to other mail in sharpeners that do FBV and with the rep of no-icing.

Edited June 23, 2018 by ViperRy

[stick9 890]

12 hours ago, ViperRy said:

I gave FBV a serious shot for months. Sent in runners numerous times to NoIcing so I know I was getting a quality cut. I went back to roh and was a stronger skater although I could feel the slight loss of glide. Then I got a sparx sharpener and have been pleased the FIRE cut. For me, The feeling FIRE gave me on my skates was in-between FBV and roh. I switch back and forth sometime between 5/6 fire and 11/16" ROH.

From my understanding, the tolerances are higher for FIRE whereas the tolerances for fbv are super low. If you're not getting your runners cut by extremely experienced and meticulous sharpener like NoIcing, I suggest sticking with FIRE. Your edges have to be close to dead even for a proper FBV cut. Moreover, sparx did a study testing numerous runners and holders. Almost all had some bend to them either due to the runner having a bend, the holder bending the runner, or both. The higher end runners like step having minimal. Even with the slightest bend fbv will lack an edge somewhere down the runner due to the low tolerance. This is why I take my runners out of the holder when sharpening for any grind just cause its very easy with the tuuk edge holders and it eliminates that variable. This is my opinion through my own research. Take it for what its worth, but I suggest you do your own research on fbv, tolerances, bends in runners/holders, ect.

If you are going to stick with FBV, I would have no one else but NoIcing sharpen your runners. I tried a couple LHS that I let FBV cut my spare runners when my main set was out at NoIcing. When trying them I would randomly hit the deck cause of no edge.

For what its worth, I can get my runner's edges after a Sparx fire cut down to what I believe is two ten-thousandths off when checking them with my HDI.

FWIW, I’ve tried Blackstons FBV from two different places and the results were much different, same exact cut. As with any manual sharpening, it’s only as good as the guy/gal behind the wheel.

Ive also tried a Blademaster flat bottom, which was nothing like Blackstones. Not all flat bottoms are created equal.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

10 hours ago, ViperRy said:

 

You're right, I should re-state that I'm speaking from experience solely in my area - MD/DC/NoVA. Also, I may not be privy to other mail in sharpeners that do FBV and with the rep of no-icing.

Thank you!

[IPv6Freely 2092]

10 hours ago, ViperRy said:

 

You're right, I should re-state that I'm speaking from experience solely in my area - MD/DC/NoVA. Also, I may not be privy to other mail in sharpeners that do FBV and with the rep of no-icing.

The cut was good but ultimately it was too expensive to keep doing it. I also had issues with their customer service.

[Monty22 832]

Reviving an old thread- I've been sharpening for one of my son's high school teammates. His father has a Sparx , but wanted to try FBV.  I put him on 95/75 which he now loves. He's coming from 1/2" on the Sprax. What Fire ring would feel closest to 95/75?  He knows it won't be the same, but Dad is hoping to get close-ish.

[stick9 890]

12 hours ago, Monty22 said:

Reviving an old thread- I've been sharpening for one of my son's high school teammates. His father has a Sparx , but wanted to try FBV.  I put him on 95/75 which he now loves. He's coming from 1/2" on the Sprax. What Fire ring would feel closest to 95/75?  He knows it won't be the same, but Dad is hoping to get close-ish.

Per the chart 95/75 is 3/8-1/2ish. I'd suggest starting with a 3/8 Fire. Anything higher won't have the bite he's used to. The 1/2 Fire will feel a lot like a 3/4 ROH.

[jazzyjoey 2]

I used to use 95/75 for myself and a few of my friends. The switch to 1/2 Fire was pretty close. It didn't feel like any less bite.

 

[Monty22 832]

He actually already had the 1/2" Fire ring- said it was similar enough but still wants FBV for games. 

[dave k 0]

I realize the original post was made long time ago so might be irrelevant, but the Cag One sharpeners would give you FBV on an automated machine. Cag One has a relationship with Blackstone so they use the FBV dressing spinners. Might want to give that a try.