VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Completely agree for at least points #2 and #3. I mean, I agree with #1 too but I'm not sure that matters as much. Stiffer doesn't equal better. 

The downside is see is the weight and they are not nearly as comfortable as True skates without the shot blockers. Again, to each their own, but if I could do things differently I would not have gotten the shot blockers. I skate with a lot of ex-professional players and some college kids too who have a mean shot and I have never had any issues with any of my prior skates and I assume I wouldn't have issues with True skates without the shot blockers. In fact, out of everyone I know that has True skates, I am the only one with shot blockers.

Our shop is in the process of becoming a fit center and I think it's important to point out the weight, stiffness, and less comfort when someone is shelling out some serious coin. If the salesperson who helped me with my order was more educated I probably would have passed on the blockers. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Nicholas G

[IPv6Freely 2092]

9 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

The downside is see is the weight and they are not nearly as comfortable as True skates without the shot blockers. Again, to each their own, but if I could do things differently I would not have gotten the shot blockers. I skate with a lot of ex-professional players and some college kids too who have a mean shot and I have never had any issues with any of my prior skates and I assume I wouldn't have issues with True skates without the shot blockers. In fact, out of everyone I know that has True skates, I am the only one with shot blockers.

Our shop is in the process of becoming a fit center and I think it's important to point out the weight, stiffness, and less comfort when someone is shelling out some serious coin. If the salesperson who helped me with my order was more educated I probably would have passed on the blockers. 

Suggesting they weren't educated because they didn't know you wouldn't personally like something ahead of time is just silly. 

[boo10 323]

2 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Suggesting they weren't educated because they didn't know you wouldn't personally like something ahead of time is just silly. 

I think his point is that if the sales rep was doing his job thoroughly, he would have made the customer aware of the effect adding the shot blockers would have.  Then it's up to the customer to decide if the trade off is worth it.  I think that's a fair expectation.

[VegasHockey 1280]

Just now, boo10 said:

I think his point is that if the sales rep was doing his job thoroughly, he would have made the customer aware of the effect adding the shot blockers would have.  Then it's up to the customer to decide if the trade off is worth it.  I think that's a fair expectation.

Correct. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

1 hour ago, boo10 said:

I think his point is that if the sales rep was doing his job thoroughly, he would have made the customer aware of the effect adding the shot blockers would have.  Then it's up to the customer to decide if the trade off is worth it.  I think that's a fair expectation.

I don't agree. To each his own. 

[Fletch 219]

Not trying to be a dick, but when I saw “shot blockers” listed as one of the options when I was getting fitted, I assumed that would definitely add extra bulkiness and weight to the boot.  I didn’t even bother asking the guy doing the scan because I figured I already knew the answer.  But yes, going forward it would be smart if the LHS or True put some kind of disclaimer on the order form just to cover their asses.  

Edited April 10, 2018 by Fletch
Typo

[nicktsigos 12]

I was pretty lucky to have a guy getting his skates baked when I went in for the scan.   Looked like a smaller size then I wear but had shot blockers and TUUK's and they didn't seem massively heavier.  I wore Nash lexan blockers to protect my shit ankle it just made sense to me to build it into the boot.   Hoping to get the skates in the next couple of weeks and then I'll see whats up

[VegasHockey 1280]

55 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Not trying to be a dick, but when I saw “shot blockers” listed as one of the options when I was getting fitted, I assumed that would definitely add extra bulkiness and weight to the boot.  I didn’t even bother asking the guy doing the scan because I figured I already knew the answer.  But yes, going forward it would be smart if the LHS or True put some kind of disclaimer on the order form just to cover their asses.  

I totally understood it would add some size and weight. What I was not told was how much weight and how it makes the skate nearly impossible to flex. I can squeeze other True skates without the shot blocker fairly easily at the ankle cuff but even with two hands mine barely move. Also, the weight of mine compared to others is significant. Anyone who says you cannot feel 100-200 grams is full of sh*t because you absolutely can.... can you imagine if a stick was 600+ grams vs 400 grams.....

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 minutes ago, nicktsigos said:

I was pretty lucky to have a guy getting his skates baked when I went in for the scan.   Looked like a smaller size then I wear but had shot blockers and TUUK's and they didn't seem massively heavier.  I wore Nash lexan blockers to protect my shit ankle it just made sense to me to build it into the boot.   Hoping to get the skates in the next couple of weeks and then I'll see whats up

When I was in the store they didn't have a demo pair with shot blockers so I had no specific information other than what the sales rep told me to base everything off. Let me clear something up. I still like the skates very much! I just wish in hindsight I would have known more about the shot blocker option pros and cons. That would have enabled me to make a more informed decision. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Nicholas G

[Larry54 243]

9 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I totally understood it would add some size and weight. What I was not told was how much weight and how it makes the skate nearly impossible to flex. I can squeeze other True skates without the shot blocker fairly easily at the ankle cuff but even with two hands mine barely move. Also, the weight of mine compared to others is significant. Anyone who says you cannot feel 100-200 grams is full of sh*t because you absolutely can.... can you imagine if a stick was 600+ grams vs 400 grams.....

Out of curiosity, is the extra weight of the integrated shot blockers more or less than the weight of conventional shot blockers / skate fenders? Assuming it's less, I could see why someone who would have worn shot blockers anyway would want the integrated ones, while someone who doesn't usually wear them might not like the extra weight.

[VegasHockey 1280]

12 minutes ago, Larry54 said:

Out of curiosity, is the extra weight of the integrated shot blockers more or less than the weight of conventional shot blockers / skate fenders? Assuming it's less, I could see why someone who would have worn shot blockers anyway would want the integrated ones, while someone who doesn't usually wear them might not like the extra weight.

No idea. I have never worn any type of shot blocker before. I assume it probably about the same weight as wearing a good brand skate shot blocker. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Question re: those who have Step Blacksteel on their VH/True holders -

I just ordered a pair for one of my customers and when I opened the package, I noticed that there was hardware on the steel - it looks like a really long Tuuk bolt.  It was the first time I ever handled that steel - I've sharpened VH/Step steel before but it was always mounted onto a skate.

One of them came off with ease - the other one was a struggle.  I left it on and sharpened anyway.

The question is geared towards the customer - is that bolt the only one he can use with that steel?  Or will the VH bolts fit onto the Blacksteel? 

[chippa13 1844]

15 hours ago, boo10 said:

I think his point is that if the sales rep was doing his job thoroughly, he would have made the customer aware of the effect adding the shot blockers would have.  Then it's up to the customer to decide if the trade off is worth it.  I think that's a fair expectation.

The employee probably made the assumption that someone looking to add the integrated shot blockers is someone who already wears some form of them and would know they will add some weight.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I guess when you expect white glove service on a nothing special sale, you also expect the employees to answer questions that weren't even asked like "will adding more material make it weigh more?"

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

I get both sides of the argument here.  

One should assume that adding internal materials would make the skate stiffer and heavier. 

When I fit people for custom skates, I build the spec sheet after the fitting, then present it to the customer, and explain each feature and why I didn't select it.  I always provide them with an if/then answer when it comes to certain features.  People sometimes only see the pro to go with a feature and not the con.   Those who have volume issues then want to put the thickest tongue on the skate is a good example of this - not realizing it will rob them of volume when the tongue is on there.  

However, not everyone has the knowledge or have run into those types of situations often enough to think that way.  They see a custom order, assume the customer has done their research, and knows exactly what they want. (You typically see that with goal pad purchases.)  My assumption is that the sales associate treated it as such and didn't question what he wanted.  Keep in mind that now you have a lot of store managers/sales associates that are doing fitting for the first time, or 1 year or less experience with it.

I never got to fit a True skate, so I'm not sure if their fit guide states that the shot blockers add weight and stiffness.  But there were posts in this thread that stated as such.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

I guess when you expect white glove service on a nothing special sale, you also expect the employees to answer questions that weren't even asked like "will adding more material make it weigh more?"

I'm sorry, but anytime someone is spending $1200+ on a single item it should not be considered "a nothing special sale." I own a hockey shop and can count the number of +$1000 skates we have sold since opening on my hands and toes. When a customer is spending ANY money in my store I a make sure to meet and exceed their expectations. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

The employee probably made the assumption that someone looking to add the integrated shot blockers is someone who already wears some form of them and would know they will add some weight.

You know the saying about when you assume.... ;)

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Question re: those who have Step Blacksteel on their VH/True holders -

I just ordered a pair for one of my customers and when I opened the package, I noticed that there was hardware on the steel - it looks like a really long Tuuk bolt.  It was the first time I ever handled that steel - I've sharpened VH/Step steel before but it was always mounted onto a skate.

One of them came off with ease - the other one was a struggle.  I left it on and sharpened anyway.

The question is geared towards the customer - is that bolt the only one he can use with that steel?  Or will the VH bolts fit onto the Blacksteel? 

The VH bolts should fit. I am surprised you got one of those loose as they are pressed in their quite tightly. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

29 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

The VH bolts should fit. I am surprised you got one of those loose as they are pressed in their quite tightly. 

Thanks for that.

Yeah, one of them was loose enough that I could pop it off.  The other one started to get looser and I said screw it and malleted it back in.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

46 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

I'm sorry, but anytime someone is spending $1200+ on a single item it should not be considered "a nothing special sale." I own a hockey shop and can count the number of +$1000 skates we have sold since opening on my hands and toes. When a customer is spending ANY money in my store I a make sure to meet and exceed their expectations. 

As you said in that post - if a customer is spending ANY money, you should meet and exceed their expectations.  Even if it's a roll of tape.  Which is exactly the best approach.  Then why say that the monetary amount mattered on your transaction?  If you treat every customer the same, regardless of money spent, it does actually becomes nothing special, because it's the norm for customer service in that store.  Let's say the sales associate went balls out and gave you kick-ass CS, then the next time in there you're looking for a jock and he just points to the rack because it's a low-cost item, does that change your views on that employee or retailer?  Because that happens all the time.  

I understand what you're saying - I really do - but you're talking about seeing it as a business owner vs someone who most likely won't be a hockey retail employee for the rest of his life.  Two different views; when you're not paying them much and it's not a career path, then you get employees who just see it as such - just another customer during their 6 hour shift.  There isn't anything in it for them, so you'll most likely get that bland approach.  

 

[chippa13 1844]

If he owns a store then why doesn't he just develop a relationship with True and save himself the "perceived" aggravation?

[VegasHockey 1280]

9 hours ago, chippa13 said:

If he owns a store then why doesn't he just develop a relationship with True and save himself the "perceived" aggravation?

Our store only recently opened and we are not a True fit center yet. There are requirements that have to be met before you can become one. We will be a fit center in the next 60 days. However, I needed skates and could not wait multiple months so I paid full price and went to Pure. We actually just got all of our new True sticks in stock :)

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Nicholas G

[VegasHockey 1280]

4 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

As you said in that post - if a customer is spending ANY money, you should meet and exceed their expectations.  Even if it's a roll of tape.  Which is exactly the best approach.  Then why say that the monetary amount mattered on your transaction?  If you treat every customer the same, regardless of money spent, it does actually becomes nothing special, because it's the norm for customer service in that store.  Let's say the sales associate went balls out and gave you kick-ass CS, then the next time in there you're looking for a jock and he just points to the rack because it's a low-cost item, does that change your views on that employee or retailer?  Because that happens all the time.  

I understand what you're saying - I really do - but you're talking about seeing it as a business owner vs someone who most likely won't be a hockey retail employee for the rest of his life.  Two different views; when you're not paying them much and it's not a career path, then you get employees who just see it as such - just another customer during their 6 hour shift.  There isn't anything in it for them, so you'll most likely get that bland approach.  

 

Totally agree with all of your points. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

5 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Thanks for that.

Yeah, one of them was loose enough that I could pop it off.  The other one started to get looser and I said screw it and malleted it back in.

To be honest, I was surprised in the way they have the long bolt as its very similar to the OG LS holder steel or Graf Cobra runners. I would think Bauer or Graf would have had a patent one such?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

37 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

To be honest, I was surprised in the way they have the long bolt as its very similar to the OG LS holder steel or Graf Cobra runners. I would think Bauer or Graf would have had a patent one such?

The bolt is a LS2 bolt for sure. I’m sure the bolt/nut is a common part.