Officiating 101

[psulion22 402]

19 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

So doing this, would you attempt to overtake the play to get ahead of it when a turnover occurs?  Otherwise being ahead of the play immediately turns into being behind it, right?

Mark

 

8 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

If you're working alone for whatever reason, I don't think anyone is going to fault you for not being on top of every play. I wouldn't try to get ahead of the play because you'll end up killing yourself for, most of the time, no reason. 

This is probably a good point.  I'd likely stay somewhere in the neutral zone until one team establishes possession in their offensive zone.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

11 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

 

This is probably a good point.  I'd likely stay somewhere in the neutral zone until one team establishes possession in their offensive zone.

Yeah. You may not be right on the blue line for zone entries but, at least for beer league, refs rarely are anyway. Don't think of it as being lazy, think of it as conserving your energy. lol.

Seriously though, I'm not sure how USA Hockey handles a 2-official system if one official gets injured. That's a great question. 

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

I treat the unofficial "1-man" system the same way we are called to approach a 3-man (1R + 2L) as the ref (wear the bands/swimmies haha). That approach is, to put it simply, to trail the puck and keep the action in front of you. Obviously there are unique situations and you have the help of the linesmen but the overall ideology can be applied to going "solo." Keeping ahead of the play takes away any accountability for the trailers on both teams. 

[IPv6Freely 2092]

You expressed what I was thinking much better than I did. 

[chk hrd 164]

Just do like most Refs in our men's league when there's only 1, skate blue line to blue line and make sure you stay on the side the score keeper sits so you don't have to skate to far if something happens...

[chippa13 1844]

I've done many games by myself in the past. You need to be with the play as much as possible but also be aware of what might be happening behind the play. You have to be confident in your calls and also call it a little tight early. Leave no wiggle room for guys to start taking liberties. Any bullshit after the whistle puts someone in the box and never be afraid to tack an extra either on the guy who started it or the guy who decides he wants the last shot that keeps anything from cooling down. Be vocal when any kind of gathering happens around the net letting guys know that you've got X player for the original and telling them the next shot or whatever is also going. When I've spotted a delayed call for any physical penalty (rough, slash, etc.) I'll let out a "I've got him, skate away" or "Don't retaliate, I've got him."

One of my favorite memories was doing a midget select game (here that is 16-17 year olds) by myself. I was sweating more than any player at the end of that one. About a week after I saw the guy who put me on that game and he asked me, "what happened in that game?" I told him nothing special and asked why. He proceeded to tell me that he had heard from both teams that is was one of the best officiated games they had in quite a while.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Did my first games for pay last night... Three games.  Went basically ok.  I need to be more decisive on penalty calls I think.  I think that will come with some experience and self confidence... Looking forward to taking a seminar next spring, as right now there doesn't seem to be much scheduled around here.

Question... I've been wearing black mechanics gloves since my hands get quite cold.  I'd like to get away from that since I seem to be the only one doing it and Dr. Google suggests its a little unaccepted.  The same Google says that either that I skate more / faster or I wear some thermal base layers to try and get my core temp up.  I'm doing pretty slow games at this point and don't feel like I'm really out of position in terms of keeping up with the play, so I'm looking at base layers to retain warmth.  Any recommendations?  I'm worried about elbow pad slippage, since the elbows I use for reffing already aren't great about staying in place.  I know there's hockey specific long sleeve base layers, but I'm assuming they're not designed to retain warmth.

I'll probably just try a long sleeve t-shirt next time out, but figured I can't be the first person to run into this...

Mark

[marka 526]

Howdy,

So, first go with a long sleeve t-shirt helped for sure.  I was able to ref the game without gloves and without feeling like my hands were going to fall off.

One question on doing this 'for real'... I'm registered as a player for USA Hockey.  Do I need to register independently as a ref as well?  I'd like to access the online course materials now, vs. waiting until the next season stuff opens up, but I don't want to waste $45 for 3 months or whatever.

Mark

[Skoda10 14]

11 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

So, first go with a long sleeve t-shirt helped for sure.  I was able to ref the game without gloves and without feeling like my hands were going to fall off.

One question on doing this 'for real'... I'm registered as a player for USA Hockey.  Do I need to register independently as a ref as well?  I'd like to access the online course materials now, vs. waiting until the next season stuff opens up, but I don't want to waste $45 for 3 months or whatever.

Mark

Yes, my daughter started reffing this season in addition to playing and you have to register separately as an official.

Also it's $70 or $75 for refs, but your clinic will be free, unless that changes this coming year.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

On 2/23/2019 at 3:38 PM, marka said:

Howdy,

So, first go with a long sleeve t-shirt helped for sure.  I was able to ref the game without gloves and without feeling like my hands were going to fall off.

One question on doing this 'for real'... I'm registered as a player for USA Hockey.  Do I need to register independently as a ref as well?  I'd like to access the online course materials now, vs. waiting until the next season stuff opens up, but I don't want to waste $45 for 3 months or whatever.

Mark

Wait, what did you have on under your stripes before? Just a short sleeve t-shirt? Depending on the level (and therefore how much you're having to move) I'd probably be going with lighter or heavier base layer under-armor style shirts. Just make sure the logo isn't visible at your neck. 

Yes, Official's registration is totally a separate thing. Since you're (probably) too late to take a seminar (there may still be some running but most are in the fall), I think I'd wait for the next season to start up before paying. 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Yeah, just a short sleeve T-shirt before.

Reffed 3 games Saturday with the long sleeve cotton t-shirt over a short sleeve T and it worked pretty well.  Hands maybe just a touch cold, but nothing crazy.  If anything, my elbow pads stayed in place better as well, so win all around.

If I find a good deal, I might try and find some long base layer pants vs. just underwear and impact shorts.  I've never liked any of that stuff as a player, so I don't have any laying around.

Slowly picking up experience.  My last game on Saturday was a bit hairy as the guy I was working with had to leave early in the first since he wasn't feeling well.  That left me doing it alone with a group that wasn't super fast, but still faster than I could easily go from behind the play to caught up.  I kept up fine with offsides / icing / goal calls, but some chippy-ness started away from the puck that I didn't see much of and it escalated a bit.  At least one really pissed off guy (who's not "that guy" normally), which sucks.  Mostly all "learned hockey as an adult" players, so differing expectations as to allowed contact, etc. etc.  Next time if that kinda thing starts happening I'll probably try and focus on it more vs. positioning / keeping up with the play.  Maybe even stop the clock and have a quick chat with the captains. 

I also just generally need to get better/more consistent at the difference between "two relatively unskilled folks trying hard with limbs everywhere" vs. "penalty worthy".  That's improving with experience, but it remains a weak point.

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2092]

For the base layer just go to target. You don’t need anything super performance wicking blah blah like you might as a player. 

[chippa13 1844]

On 2/25/2019 at 1:23 PM, marka said:

That left me doing it alone with a group that wasn't super fast, but still faster than I could easily go from behind the play to caught up.  I kept up fine with offsides / icing / goal calls, but some chippy-ness started away from the puck that I didn't see much of and it escalated a bit.  At least one really pissed off guy (who's not "that guy" normally), which sucks.  Mostly all "learned hockey as an adult" players, so differing expectations as to allowed contact, etc. etc.  Next time if that kinda thing starts happening I'll probably try and focus on it more vs. positioning / keeping up with the play.  Maybe even stop the clock and have a quick chat with the captains.

This is where you tell both teams that they have a choice on what you'll be doing, keeping an eye on the bullshit away from the play or being in position for the right line, icing, and goal calls but you can't do both. Also, the second the bullshit starts then just make it a parade to the penalty box. Teams usually catch on.

 

[marka 526]

Howdy,

So... Been occasionally reffing here and there.  Slowly getting better at stuff, still have quite a ways to go.  A thing I particularly suck at is recognizing a penalty.  And I suck even more about mentally marking and remembering who it was on.  Same thing in terms of "who scored and assisted?", but the adult league I ref with doesn't track that, so I sidestep that problem.

I'm pretty comfortable with positioning now in a 2 ref system.  Starting to be better about watching the players vs. just the puck.

Anyway, I reffed my first upper level game last night.  B League game here in Pgh, which is the highest level we have in the organization I play/ref with.  The guy that runs the league was out of ref options and he talked me into doing it despite me not thinking it would be a good idea. 

I'm glad he did... It was quite a bit of fun.  The play was a LOT faster, so I was skating more and harder which was great.  It wasn't so fast that I couldn't keep up, but was fast enough that I stayed warmed up and loose vs. the lower level games I've been doing where you don't skate as much and then tighten up some.  It was also a lot easier to read the play, since players typically made decent passes / didn't fumble fuck the puck.  So, for instance, if I was at the blue line and a defensive player had the puck on their stick without much pressure exiting the zone, I could cheat off the line since they were unlikely to turn the puck over stupidly.

I definitely needed to be better about not being in the way... With the players moving faster and able to change directions much quicker, I needed to be better about reading where they were going and more quickly getting out of their way.  It wasn't horrifically bad (I don't think), but for sure there were too many times that a player had to abruptly change direction to avoid me (usually away from the play, when their attention was up ice, not so much where they were going).

Also need to be better about dropping the puck.  In the lower leagues they're not as keyed into any movement of my arm at all.  So I adapted to that and all, but frequently when I'd drop the puck it wouldn't land flat since I was dropping it in one motion from my waist line and I'm just not very good at that yet.

I blew one covering the puck call pretty badly... I was on the side of the net at home base, the puck/offensive player went to the net and the goalie was down covering that side.  I got screened just a touch and when that player moved through I saw the goalie down with blocker and stick cemented to the side of the net like he was covering the puck, so I blew it dead... With the whistle sounding just as the puck / player emerge into my vision from the other side of the net.  Sigh.  The guys seemed pretty understanding about it, which was nice.

Anyway... Despite some serious misgivings I had a good time doing it.  We'll see if I get any feedback from the other ref / teams via the league organizer as to just how awful I was but I'd do it again for sure, if they wanted me to.

Mark

[chippa13 1844]

Back when I reffed I would sometimes point at the offending player with my unraised arm until I had a good handle on who the penalty was going to be on. When I blew the whistle I would full stop, definitely point at the offending player and with a loud voice call out player number, jersey color and infraction with appropriate hand signal.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

So, as my world turns....

About the only positive of my wrist being bad / not being able to play is that I'm reffing a decent bit more, mostly as a way to keep skating and keep my 'game eye" as much as I can.

I'm getting slightly better at forcing myself to mentally note which player I've just called a penalty on, but I'm still relatively horrible at it.  My latest way to screw that up is on a delayed penalty to focus so much on not losing the player I'm calling the penalty on that I miss a possession change and don't blow the play dead until too late.  It's always something.  😕

I would say at this point that I'm decent about recognizing when I should be calling a penalty though, so that's progress?

I registered for real with USA Hockey and I'm taking the level 1 seminar in a couple weeks.  Really looking forward to this.

Against my better judgement I've reffed some kids games.  Middle school kids, mostly.  It actually hasn't been that horrible.  Its a summer league at the rink I do most of my playing (and nearly all of my reffing) at and the coaches and parents mostly seem to have the right attitude.

All of that brings me to probably one of my worst moments reffing, at least in terms of embarrassment.  Kids game.  One of the kids checks another kid, both go down.  I raise my arm to call the check (non-checking) (and hear one of the coaches agree with the call).  The loose puck is picked up by the non-offending team, play goes on for a bit.  I apparently then have a mental seizure or something.  Anyway, after the puck changes possession a couple times, the other ref (a 14 year old kid, been playing since he was 3) blows it dead.  I review my mental picture of what happened, think its this one kid on the team.  Point at him, call the check, get the "whatever, idiot ref" look/mumble.  I go to the scorekeeper, give him the #.  Coach on his team (the one that agreed with the call) says to me "the penalty is on the other team, right?"  At this point, I look around, realize that there are four players out there for the other team, five for the team I just called the penalty on.  Coach for the other team says "Hey, I don't have a 57, and then laughs saying "don't worry, I know who it was on".

At this point, I give mental thanks that everyone else in the rink knows what's going on, go in, drop the puck and the game goes on.

So yeah, I've got a little room for improvement.  🙂

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Here's something I do that may help you. Or at least, I do for other things. I still have never reffed a game but I still think it may go a long way. Simply say, out loud (but quietly so you don't look like an idiot), the color and number when your arm goes up. It may not seem like much, but its AMAZING how well you can remember something when a million things are going on if you've actually said it out loud. Small detail, but its a simple enough trick that I've found effective in general. 

[Vet88 674]

+1 for this, I got exactly the same guidance at a ref course from the guy who was the head ref for the Canadian junior league. And you can practice this as you ref games. Pick any point in a game and pick a player, then at the start of the next play recall the number and colour. As you keep at it you get much better so that it starts to become second nature. Then add the supposed penalty call so you get all the elements together.

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Good advice. We've all been there when we know we made the right call but completely forgot who should serve the penalty haha. Repeating the number and color to yourself is the best way to go. Also do it when your partner makes a call that you saw but didn't put your arm up to signal the delay. Just a good habit to form because the smart players will play dumb and try to convince you otherwise haha.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Amazing how much "normal" shifts...

I started out with this reffing thing last December as a way to still skate with my wife.  Didn't plan to make money doing it.  NEVER wanted to ref a kids game.

Fast forward to yesterday.  At this point I've got ~90 games in.  Earned $3.6k (gross).  Gotten certified with USA Hockey.

And I reffed a kid's travel game.  Something I was adamantly against doing.  🙂

It was fun though.  I've mostly done beer league stuff (no stats, refs run the score board, running clock, etc.)  I did do a couple informal-ish kids summer games.  But this was my first game where I needed to see / report goals and assists, penalties, etc.  Luckily it was a pretty easy game.  I'd liked doing Squirt age stuff when I did those few kids games over the summer and this was no different.  The pace isn't overwhelming (I did one highschool game as part of the summer stuff, and my brain just didn't process hockey that fast).  Parents and coaches still seem to realize that these are 9 and 10 year olds.  Etc.  It was also nice that my partner was a good ref (Highschool senior kid of a guy I played with on a beer league team.  He's been playing since he was 4.  🙂

Honestly though, the absolute best part of the whole thing is that they play music when the play is stopped.  That rocked.  Literally.  🙂

 

Just kinda struck me how different this is from where I started.  It is very much still just a hobby / "something to do".  But I've enjoyed learning more about it, getting better at it, etc.  No question that a big part of how I got here was messing up my wrist in April and wanting to keep skating.  Of those 90 games, 74 are from that point.

 

I've still got a SHIT TON to learn to be anything like a good ref.  And reading back over this thread I'm seeing plenty of stuff that I said I needed to get better at that I still 100% need to get WAY better at.  But I see myself making progress and that's fun.

Appreciate the advice I've gotten here!

Mark

Edited September 23, 2019 by marka

[marka 526]

Howdy,

So, for faceoff locations... I'm trying to put together a list of exceptions to the "nearest dot to where puck was last played, without advancing the puck for the offending team" face off location...

What I have so far:
 

• Intentional offsides -- faceoff in their defending zone.
• playing the puck with a highstick -- faceoff in the defending zone.
• Offensive team shoots the puck out of play in the offensive zone -- Face off in neutral zone (this may just be "closest without advancing" in reality... Just that it almost never happens below the dots?)
• After the whistle, if any offensive player comes from above the circles into a scrum at the net, faceoff in the neutral zone

Any others?

Mark

[psulion22 402]

2 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

So, for faceoff locations... I'm trying to put together a list of exceptions to the "nearest dot to where puck was last played, without advancing the puck for the offending team" face off location...

What I have so far:
 

• Intentional offsides -- faceoff in their defending zone.
• playing the puck with a highstick -- faceoff in the defending zone.
• Offensive team shoots the puck out of play in the offensive zone -- Face off in neutral zone (this may just be "closest without advancing" in reality... Just that it almost never happens below the dots?)
• After the whistle, if any offensive player comes from above the circles into a scrum at the net, faceoff in the neutral zone

Any others?

Mark

USA Hockey has a mobile app that has appendicies for things like this.  They are also contained in the back of the rulebook.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

24 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

USA Hockey has a mobile app that has appendicies for things like this.  They are also contained in the back of the rulebook.

Ah... I'd seen 612, which wasn't all that helpful, but appendix II looks to be better.  I'll need to check that out more.  🙂

Thanks!

Mark

[marka 526]

Howdy,

So, sorta morphing this into my "ask weird rules questions" thread...

Does a deflection count as a "play"?

I ask for two situations...

1) a shot is taken from the neutral zone, with all offensive players on-sides.  It deflects off a defenseman in the offensive zone, going out of play.  Face off location is supposed to be determined by the last play, but I'm not sure if the shot is the last play or the deflection is.

2) offensive player in the offensive zone bats the puck with his hand.  Puck deflects off the goalie's pads, to another offensive player.  Hand pass or not?

If you REALLY want to help me out, you could specify which USA hockey rule applies with your answer.  🙂

Mark

[althoma1 574]

I can't tell you what the USA hockey rules would be, but I can give you the Hockey Canada answers. 

1) The faceoff would be in the attacking zone (for the team that shot it in) because the puck deflected off a defender in that zone. 

2) That would be a hand pass because a defending player would need to gain possession and control to negate the hand pass. A deflection does not constitute possession and control.