Any lacing tricks? The top of my foot hurts, but if i loosen laces my heel isn't locked

[jdsmn21 0]

I'm tinkering with the lacing of my new Supremes - my tendon that runs along the top the foot to the big toe gets shooting pain when skating. But if I loosen them up, my heel has that loose feeling. Any tricks to lace my boot so the first 5 or so eyelets are relaxed, but tighter through the ankle - and stay that way through a skate session?

I am currently laced inside out to reduce tongue pressure. And I pass the pencil test.

Slightly unrelated question - but why do figure skates have "speed hooks" on the ankle eyelets, but not hockey skates? It would seem to have an advantage on hockey skates where I could tie off before the hooks, then lace through the hooks - essentially creating two different zones of lace tension that wouldn't change throughout a game.

[BenBreeg 493]

1 hour ago, jdsmn21 said:

I'm tinkering with the lacing of my new Supremes - my tendon that runs along the top the foot to the big toe gets shooting pain when skating. But if I loosen them up, my heel has that loose feeling. Any tricks to lace my boot so the first 5 or so eyelets are relaxed, but tighter through the ankle - and stay that way through a skate session?

I am currently laced inside out to reduce tongue pressure. And I pass the pencil test.

Slightly unrelated question - but why do figure skates have "speed hooks" on the ankle eyelets, but not hockey skates? It would seem to have an advantage on hockey skates where I could tie off before the hooks, then lace through the hooks - essentially creating two different zones of lace tension that wouldn't change throughout a game.

How does inside out reduce tongue pressure?  It is the same as outside in, just essentially upside down unless i am missing what you are saying.  But i have seen proposed lacing patterns like this and it is the same thing.

i remember someone on my team that just had two sets of laces in each skate,one for the bottom and one for the top.

[puckpilot 312]

The simplest thing you can probably do is to use two laces, one for the bottom of the skate, and one for the top of the skate. That way you can control the tightness on top and bottom.

Another thing you can try is to skip one of the eyelets right above where it's hurting to reduce pressure on that area. 

Aside from lacing, you can try the lace bite version of bunga pads.

[jdsmn21 0]

I take it back, it's outside in. I'm not sure, but from reading here it seems commonly recommended.

The two lace idea is worth a try. So simple...but should achieve what I need.

I'm almost convinced that the plastic strip in the Bauer tongue (under the mesh strip) is what is causing the pain. It seems raised above the tongue, so all lace pressure is put right on it - which then transfers right to a narrow area on the top of the foot. Any idea if I made a slit in the mesh whether it could be pulled out?

[VegasHockey 1283]

40 minutes ago, jdsmn21 said:

I take it back, it's outside in. I'm not sure, but from reading here it seems commonly recommended.

The two lace idea is worth a try. So simple...but should achieve what I need.

I'm almost convinced that the plastic strip in the Bauer tongue (under the mesh strip) is what is causing the pain. It seems raised above the tongue, so all lace pressure is put right on it - which then transfers right to a narrow area on the top of the foot. Any idea if I made a slit in the mesh whether it could be pulled out?

It could be, yes, but I would alter your lacing before performing surgery on your skates. What model of Supreme is this?

[jdsmn21 0]

46 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

It could be, yes, but I would alter your lacing before performing surgery on your skates. What model of Supreme is this?

Supreme S29. 

Here's some pics of the tongue: Imgur Album

I'll definitely try the lacing first. I attached the pics to show the plastic guard that's in the tongue....but yeah, i really don't want to do surgery on brand new skates. It just seems that if it was half the thickness, and twice the width - it would be far more effective.

 

[VegasHockey 1283]

42 minutes ago, jdsmn21 said:

Supreme S29. 

Here's some pics of the tongue: Imgur Album

I'll definitely try the lacing first. I attached the pics to show the plastic guard that's in the tongue....but yeah, i really don't want to do surgery on brand new skates. It just seems that if it was half the thickness, and twice the width - it would be far more effective.

 

Yeah, we sell that skate and the tongue is not my favorite but its honestly pretty decent. I would try adjusting the lacing a bit. Did you get professionally fitted? Did you pass the pencil test? 

[jdsmn21 0]

Yeah, fitted and baked at Bauer Experience in Bloomington, MN. Scanner put me right on the line between Nexus and Supreme - Nexus felt sloppy, so settled on Supreme 9 EE. Pencil test passes all the way, just barely.

I think I'll pull the laces out of my old skates and try the twin lace method, and see what happens. 

[swede 50]

Stable 26 socks and laces a bit looser? 

[BenBreeg 493]

5 hours ago, jdsmn21 said:

I take it back, it's outside in. I'm not sure, but from reading here it seems commonly recommended.

The two lace idea is worth a try. So simple...but should achieve what I need.

I'm almost convinced that the plastic strip in the Bauer tongue (under the mesh strip) is what is causing the pain. It seems raised above the tongue, so all lace pressure is put right on it - which then transfers right to a narrow area on the top of the foot. Any idea if I made a slit in the mesh whether it could be pulled out?

Yeah, i have seen it recommended in places, i just dont see how it makes a difference.  It is the same lacing pattern as inside out, just “upside down”.  The pressure on the tongue is the same.

Some type of pattern where it only exited the top would change the pressue but I can’t think of a pattern that wouldn’t end up “skipping” every third eyelet.

[Vet88 674]

4 hours ago, jdsmn21 said:

I think I'll pull the laces out of my old skates and try the twin lace method, and see what happens. 

2 laces work but if you want to use one lace buy these or similar: https://www.hockeyworld.com/Reebok-Skate-Lock

But it still means you can't lace up tight in the upper area, if you want to do that buy some eyelet extenders from here : http://www.greatsaves.org/skate_lace_extenders.html

I'm not a great fan of these as they don't use eyelets in the lace holes (so I make my own) but they will stop your lace bite. Changing the tongue for something thinner may also work. Gel pads, lacing patterns and anything else that is inserted over the tendon (other than a Forsberg pad) is generally just a waste of time. You have to get the pressure OFF the tendon, end of story.

[jdsmn21 0]

5 hours ago, Vet88 said:

2 laces work but if you want to use one lace buy these or similar: https://www.hockeyworld.com/Reebok-Skate-Lock

But it still means you can't lace up tight in the upper area, if you want to do that buy some eyelet extenders from here : http://www.greatsaves.org/skate_lace_extenders.html

I'm not a great fan of these as they don't use eyelets in the lace holes (so I make my own) but they will stop your lace bite. Changing the tongue for something thinner may also work. Gel pads, lacing patterns and anything else that is inserted over the tendon (other than a Forsberg pad) is generally just a waste of time. You have to get the pressure OFF the tendon, end of story.

But my lace bite problems aren't on the lower shin/ankle, like where most people have lace bite pain. My pain is closer to the middle of the foot to the big toe - so I don't think those extenders will do much for me.

I did see those Skate Locks - but if the ankle is laced tighter than the bottom of the foot, won't the laces want to pull through the locks?

I am still curious why hockey skates don't use speed hooks on the ankles. 

[Larry54 243]

10 hours ago, jdsmn21 said:

Supreme S29. 

Here's some pics of the tongue: Imgur Album

I'll definitely try the lacing first. I attached the pics to show the plastic guard that's in the tongue....but yeah, i really don't want to do surgery on brand new skates. It just seems that if it was half the thickness, and twice the width - it would be far more effective.

 

I had Bauer/Nike Flexlites that had tongues which looked similar to yours but the middle section was a bit wider like in this picture.

The problem I had was that the plastic insert was too low, so when I flexed forward, the top of my ankle would bend over the top of the plastic insert which would sort of dig into my ankle causing lace bite symptoms. I had removed the tongues with the intention of replacing them with something else by unstitching the bottom where they attach to the toe cap. But once the tongue was removed, with the absence of stitching at the bottom of the tongue I saw that I could reach inside and detach the flimsily glued plastic insert and re-position it higher. I then had the tongues re-attached at a sports repair shop. I don't know if the construction of your tongues are the same, but it might be a way of removing the insert or replacing it with something less rigid. I can't guarantee this solution but it might be something to consider ( at your own risk 🙂 ).

Or maybe you can heat the tongue nice and slowly with a heat gun and hope the plastic insert gets malleable enough to shape it to the top of your foot. 🤔

[jdsmn21 0]

5 hours ago, Larry54 said:

I had Bauer/Nike Flexlites that had tongues which looked similar to yours but the middle section was a bit wider like in this picture.

 

The problem I had was that the plastic insert was too low, so when I flexed forward, the top of my ankle would bend over the top of the plastic insert which would sort of dig into my ankle causing lace bite symptoms. I had removed the tongues with the intention of replacing them with something else by unstitching the bottom where they attach to the toe cap. But once the tongue was removed, with the absence of stitching at the bottom of the tongue I saw that I could reach inside and detach the flimsily glued plastic insert and re-position it higher. I then had the tongues re-attached at a sports repair shop. I don't know if the construction of your tongues are the same, but it might be a way of removing the insert or replacing it with something less rigid. I can't guarantee this solution but it might be something to consider ( at your own risk 🙂 ).

Or maybe you can heat the tongue nice and slowly with a heat gun and hope the plastic insert gets malleable enough to shape it to the top of your foot. 🤔

I'll have to try your suggestions. I did try to "roll" the tongue - maybe I'll try the heat gun a bit.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your experience. I like to see the "tinkering" stories and skate modifications!

[hockeydad3 51]

The experience i made is that a skate beeing too big, too short or too wide needs to be tied very tight to give you enough ankle support or sufficient heel-lock.

This can cause awful pain. I was going through all kinds of lacing patterns.

Your pain can be a part of the breaking in process but should vanish after 10-15 hockey sessions.

I´m now getting happy with my Nexus N2900 6.5D. My supremes s160 6.5EE have been too long and too wide causing pain in the midfoot when tied tight enough.

The newest Nexus  line seems to be a lttle snugger than the older ones.

Have you been measured between a supreme D and a nexus D or EE size? Supreme EE can be wider than Nexus D and is longer than a D size.

A well fitting skate doesn´t need to be tied too tight.

 

[Vet88 674]

13 hours ago, jdsmn21 said:

But my lace bite problems aren't on the lower shin/ankle, like where most people have lace bite pain. My pain is closer to the middle of the foot to the big toe - so I don't think those extenders will do much for me.

I did see those Skate Locks - but if the ankle is laced tighter than the bottom of the foot, won't the laces want to pull through the locks?

I am still curious why hockey skates don't use speed hooks on the ankles. 

Then it sounds like the insert is digging into the forefoot area. These inserts are also a pita if you want to skate lace free, the tongue flop causes them to dig into the area of the foot just behind the toes so you need to skate with laces in but untied.

The laces won't pull thru the lace lock regardless of how you tighten on either side of the lock. There are a number of reasons why speed hooks aren't allowed. They are a projection on the skate and could cause physical damage if they come into contact with another player. They will break if a puck hits them or you run into the boards, now your lace is coming loose and there are bits of metal either pinging around the ice or driven into your foot........ It is much easier to trip someone if your blade catches under the speed hook, they are trying to keep players on their feet, not off them.

[jdsmn21 0]

3 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

Have you been measured between a supreme D and a nexus D or EE size? Supreme EE can be wider than Nexus D and is longer than a D size.

A well fitting skate doesn´t need to be tied too tight.

I actually initially bought the S29s in a 9D at the local shop - 9D Nexus i tried (whatever model is at that $300ish price point) felt sloppy inside in the forefoot, but my toe was just brushing the tip of the toe cup. At the time they (the 9D s29's) fit decent - not perfect, a little tightness here and there, but I attributed that to needing to break in and figured it would be tolerable for a few sessions till the foam settled in. Had them baked, and they felt snug as a bug. This was Saturday morning....Sunday morning I tried them on in the house and thought the felt tight. Took them to open skate that afternoon, and went 10 mins - couldn't get them off fast enough. I returned them, but the local shop doesn't stock EE's, so I went up to the Bauer Experience store (owned by Pure Hockey), where I was scanned, and the arrow was right on middle between Supreme EE and Nexus (not sure what width).

I'm starting to dabble with looser tied skates. My old CCMs were pretty soft, and the tongue was basic (just felt). I could wrench on those laces, and they contoured my foot like a pair of Red Wing boots. But they were cheap skates, not bakeable, etc, but surprisingly never got lacebite. I'm finding out with my S29's that the only point in the lacing that truly matters the most is the eyelet where the ankle bends - if I get that reasonably snug, the heel stays put.

 

 

2 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Then it sounds like the insert is digging into the forefoot area. These inserts are also a pita if you want to skate lace free, the tongue flop causes them to dig into the area of the foot just behind the toes so you need to skate with laces in but untied.

The laces won't pull thru the lace lock regardless of how you tighten on either side of the lock. There are a number of reasons why speed hooks aren't allowed. They are a projection on the skate and could cause physical damage if they come into contact with another player. They will break if a puck hits them or you run into the boards, now your lace is coming loose and there are bits of metal either pinging around the ice or driven into your foot........ It is much easier to trip someone if your blade catches under the lace lock, they are trying to keep players on their feet, not off them.

I'm going to try to shape it a little more, and make sure the leading and trailing edges have a little more roll to them so they don't dig. I just got off the neighborhood outdoor rink with the kiddo, and no bite on the foot as usual, but the heel felt sloppy cause i didn't tie them very tight. I'm still using one lace in the skate. 

I think I might have to order a couple pairs of those lace locks. They look like they might achieve what i need.

And that makes total sense about the hooks. Thanks for pointing that out.