New Kids Skates: Buying for performance over model/name (Bauer s25 jr.)

[KosstleHockey 0]

Long time reader first time poster. I am a researcher/analysis kinda guy --- I am a systems thinker... so sometimes I OVER THINK, but in reality I enjoy the cerebral exercise of decision making and trying to make a good decision when purchasing things ... sooooo ....

Did I make the right a good and well reasoned/researched decision on the skate I purchased for my 8u Mite --- (it's easy to sit and dispense advice to parents on the team and to folks on the internet but when it's your kid, how the doubt and over-thinking flood in!)

New Skate: Bauer Supreme s25 Junior (sz 1)

• -- [**Would you make any modifications? (New tongue? Replace cheap etc...)]
• My planned upgrades:
  • Superfeet Insert (the stock Bauer one is ... a piece of cloth?)
  • Profile the blades ... not a direct mod per se, but when compared to a 2S with some yahoo on the grind wheel... 🙂
  • Might throw them in an old skate convection oven after the first couple of skates just after a skate to keep them breaking in quickly.
• Could be convinced:
  • New Tongue --- honestly I dont think this adds to the performance much ... so probably not since this one isnt HORRIBLE unless lace bite pops up.
  • New Runners --- This is addressed in my concern. Since the holder is not an edge, doing this would be ... EXPENSIVE, and might blow the S25 experiment out of the water. 

Skater profile: 7yo, 45lbs, above average skater, has most of his edges, constantly moving -- lots of starts and stops. Previous skate: Bauer Supreme 140

Why the s25:

Went with the s25 after reading lots of posts here and my personal philosophy of skating for kids. The purchase was about finding a skate he said felt good, that the fitter and myself agreed fit well, and that was a good skate for a kid, i.e. somewhat flexible and lower volume padding. Had him try everything and even the s27 seemed way to stiff for him. I believe that many kids are pushed into skates that are WAY too stiff for them and that the flagship models in the lines (e.g. the Bauer 2s) are just too bulky for kids --- this is a minor point compared to the flex. I do have a little bit of "dad remorse" because as I am buying these entry level skates BECAUSE I believe I am smarter than the sales folks and the skate company ... I see tons of other parents not blinking and buying their 7yos s29s, 2Ss, [insert top model line skates here]. So while I trust my instinct ... I still have a few doubts. Ultimately, I didn't want him to go from a SQUISHY 140, to a super stiff s29 or even s27. I also won't belabor this but, I don't think kids under about 100lbs and 11/12 years should ever be in a flagship model.  Note on the tongue: I am actually surprised at the construction. Foam is thick, 30z, two piece, and has a metatarsal pad and lace bite feature. 

My biggest doubts/concerns are:

1.  The runners that come in an entry level skate are... well ... a concern. This kid likes his skates as sharp as possible. I could probably do them every 2 skates and he'd love it. He is fairly careful but he chewed up his last blades on the 140. Luckily I don't have to pay for EVERY sharpen as I can do them at the rink with his coach. To me, I would want a better steel to keep an edge better (not necessarily longer, although those are essentially the same thing) ... perform a bit better (HE IS 7 ... so there is a limited return here). The issue is there is no cheap or easy way to alleviate this problem so I dont think fixing this is WORTH it in any sense of the word. 
2. While he said he liked this skate feel the best of anything he tried on ... he liked the s27 second. The 27 was quite a bit stiffer but probably is a better constructed boot overall... so should I have sacrificed a bit of flex for cushioning/interior, a better tongue, and the LS Edge holder with quick release and answer both these concerns? 

A final note: MY KID is 7. Seven. He is still afraid of the basement. So I know that this detailed of a post is CRAZY TOWN, but it's fun for me, and my wife is sick of me gaming this out with her because HE IS 7 🙂 So I know that this is overkill decision making for a 7 year old ... but again this is for SCIENCE and so I can tell the rest of the parents on my team who will come to me asking if they should drop $179 - $399 on skates. 

So let's have it ... indulge me with your skate knowledge geekiness and love of this sort of mental exercise. [NB: I do have a thought at the end of all of this, which is sort of my punch line, but I want to see where folks come in on this.]

 

 

[colins 246]

 

My youngest started skating when he was 3 in a pair of CCM Intruder 55 skates. They were very flexible. At 17 years old now he's one of the better skaters you'd see on the ice at that age. Ankle range of mobility is a huge deal at the end of the day for skating, and anything that would restrict developing ankle strength and range of motion would be something I'd personally look to avoid. So I'd agree with your take on staying in a softer boot at that age.

I can't say with certainty that one model over the other is better or worse, but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have changed a thing and I would have kept him in those CCM Intruders. When he outgrew them he used a a pair of MIssion (Warp I think?) and they were at least as soft/flexible a boot or maybe even more so. He didn't move into a pair of Supremes with some more stiffness until he'd already been skating for 3 or 4 years.

Regarding your upgrades - I'd stick with the stock insoles unless he has discomfort. As long as they cover the rivets effectively then unless your son has issues with his feet you're trying to correct - why mess with that? In particular - if you do go with Superfeet, I'd first have a look at the pencil test and make sure if he's got high arches that  putting in a thicker footbed doesn't raise his foot too high in the boot and cause lace bite or other issues. My son has very high arches (borderline fails the pencil test on a pair of Tacks) so this is something I'm always careful about.

And yes you're crazy... but we all are that's why we're here talking about hockey equipment in July. 😉

 

colins

Edited July 19, 2019 by colins

[caveman27 208]

8u mite hockey. Top-of-the-line equipment at that level is overkill. If he's an advanced skater, because he started at 5 years old, then maybe the top of the line boys skates would be beneficial. If you have your son doing bulgarian squats to improve his explosiveness, well, you can be that dad. LOL. Just kidding.

[BenBreeg 493]

I can see how someone that is so analytical can get caught up in overthinking and second guessing but you made the right choice.  My son just turned 8 and is in a similar level skate.  I see kids in all levels of skates at this age and there is no correlation to skating ability.  For my son, i would rather stay in a mid-tier boot for all the reasons that have been outlined before, buy on sale and keep him in a skate that fits well rather than think he needs top of the line and try to buy so he has room to grow and keep him in it too long because it is so expensive to get new ones.

I can’t see the tongue being a mod that is worth it, steel, maybe, I will let others chime in.

[KosstleHockey 0]

10 hours ago, caveman27 said:

8u mite hockey. Top-of-the-line equipment at that level is overkill. If he's an advanced skater, because he started at 5 years old, then maybe the top of the line boys skates would be beneficial.

He's been skating a while. I didnt put him in organized hockey until he was 6. So He would be that kid, sans squats ... although I do trick him into running stairs and doing speed/explosive drills to get video game time. He laughs because he knows I am tricking him ... but he loves it. 

As for the skates ...  a kid on the team who started last season at 6 as one of the top skaters, at Christmas he got a pair of Bauer 1S and his skating plateaued a bit. He is still one of the better players and skaters, but I have to think it has something to do with it. 

[KosstleHockey 0]

2 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

For my son, i would rather stay in a mid-tier boot for all the reasons that have been outlined before, buy on sale and keep him in a skate that fits well rather than think he needs top of the line and try to buy so he has room to grow and keep him in it too long because it is so expensive to get new ones.

I can’t see the tongue being a mod that is worth it, steel, maybe, I will let others chime in.

Yeah ... this post at the end of the day is a fun/funny way to simply say: You don't have to [and in my opinion SHOULDN'T] buy a top tier skate, and probably even a mid tier in Junior boots. In Youth, you can probably buy a mid-tier, I havent checked the new ones out, but having the kid been in the s140s, I think he was in need of a slightly stiffer boot because of skating ability. Theoretically the s140 turned into the s25, but the s25 junior is a bit stiffer. 

Steel: I wish you could more easily switch steel out because I have my doubts if the cost/effort are worth the benefits at this age. It's honestly something that I dont have enough knowledge or experience to evaluate well. 

[BenBreeg 493]

Hard to draw the conclusion that the other kid plateaued because of the skate.  Foster a love of the game and of being active in general, all the rest will sort itself out.

[mojo122 535]

Just my thoughts...while you certainly don't want him in a skate too stiff you also don't want him in a skate too soft.  Both of those can hold him back. 

[caveman27 208]

4 hours ago, KosstleHockey said:

He's been skating a while. I didnt put him in organized hockey until he was 6. So He would be that kid, sans squats ... although I do trick him into running stairs and doing speed/explosive drills to get video game time. He laughs because he knows I am tricking him ... but he loves it. 

As for the skates ...  a kid on the team who started last season at 6 as one of the top skaters, at Christmas he got a pair of Bauer 1S and his skating plateaued a bit. He is still one of the better players and skaters, but I have to think it has something to do with it. 

Going overboard isn't so bad as getting skates that impede performance. 

My first hockey skates were used. But, there was a certain point when I got better than the skates and I wasn't getting enough ankle support (this was back in the 80s when skates were made of leather).

[Leif 161]

Seems like a sensible choice. His biggest gains will come from learning to skate, stick handle etc. Higher end skates provide more comfort, and last longer, but he has growing feet. 

[strosedefence34 175]

I would just jump up a level to the S27s.  That is a great all around skate for a young kid or a beginner player.  Plenty flexible but also stiff enough to provide some support.

[KosstleHockey 0]

52 minutes ago, strosedefence34 said:

I would just jump up a level to the S27s.  That is a great all around skate for a young kid or a beginner player.  Plenty flexible but also stiff enough to provide some support.

I did NOT feel like they were plenty flexible for my 7yo who is 45lbs. There's a ton of padding, gel, a robust tongue and the boot stiffness is quite a bit. Plus coming from a s140, it just seemed like it made more sense to take flex over all the other bells an whistles that were R&D'd for professional players. 

[puckpilot 312]

In regards to Superfeet, a couple of things to consider. First, Superfeet will take up more volume than the stock beds. That could be a plus or a minus. Second, Superfeet lift the heels up, pitching the skater forward. For me, they made a neutral pitched skate feel like one that had at least a +1 pitch to it. I didn't realize it at the time, but that had a factor in putting me on my toes a little too much. I actually had to try a negative pitch before I figured out what was happening. Third, Superfeet are comfortable but becasue they're thicker, they mute the feel for the skate/edges. Again, I didn't realize this at first, but when I put my stock beds back in, it was like going from wearing mittens when typing to bare fingers.  IMHO, if your kid doesn't need the arch support, the stock beds are probably better for skate feel. 

[KosstleHockey 0]

13 hours ago, puckpilot said:

In regards to Superfeet, a couple of things to consider. First, Superfeet will take up more volume than the stock beds. That could be a plus or a minus. Second, Superfeet lift the heels up, pitching the skater forward. For me, they made a neutral pitched skate feel like one that had at least a +1 pitch to it. I didn't realize it at the time, but that had a factor in putting me on my toes a little too much. I actually had to try a negative pitch before I figured out what was happening. Third, Superfeet are comfortable but becasue they're thicker, they mute the feel for the skate/edges. Again, I didn't realize this at first, but when I put my stock beds back in, it was like going from wearing mittens when typing to bare fingers.  IMHO, if your kid doesn't need the arch support, the stock beds are probably better for skate feel. 

The pitch thing makes a ton of sense, and TBH he doesnt need a ton of support. I am a proponent of bare feet or compression socks for foot health reasons, I hate squishy bulky cotton gym socks.