Bauer vs Step lawsuit

[stick9 890]

12 minutes ago, dkmiller3356 said:

As I understand it, STEP chose not to violate US patent law and played by the rules.  That is why they could not sell in the US.  The others, if they are selling in the US, are violating US patent law.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the scope of the patent. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

13 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

That was mentioned above by JR. However myself I still don't feel it sharpens as well or holds the edge as well. .my personal opinion.  Its said to be the same but I don't think its finished the same to have the same edge retention 

I think many forget that not not all steel is created equal, even if its sourced from Sandvik. Even within certain categories there is minor differences, even though many companies claim to all use Sandvik
12C27 as the base for their blades. 

https://www.materials.sandvik/en-us/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/

https://www.materials.sandvik/globalassets/global/downloads/products_downloads/strip-steel-and-strip-based-products/strip-steel-for-edge-applicationss-333-eng.sep.99.pdf

I am not sure what steel Massive uses, but it is much harder than anything I have ever tested via rockwell or vickers measurements. However, that might be why Massive steel is very prone to snapping in half. 

[JR Boucicaut 3798]

15 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

That was mentioned above by JR. However myself I still don't feel it sharpens as well or holds the edge as well. .my personal opinion.  Its said to be the same but I don't think its finished the same to have the same edge retention 

Yeah, they are finished differently. LS3 has always had that swirly finish, whereas Step is polished. 

5 hours ago, start_today said:

If other 3rd party companies “can expect letters,” why are they able to sell their Edge runners in the US, but Step couldn’t, and was confined to Canada? Was that a choice Step made to try to play by the rules? 

Sorry if I’m getting into the weeds, the behind the scenes business issues of all this stuff intrigues me. 

Yes - Step played by the rules when the holder came out in 2013. The US patent was granted, but not the Canadian one.  So, they were okay until that happened. 

[BenBreeg 493]

8 hours ago, stick9 said:

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the scope of the patent. 

How does that matter?  If they are making the same product I am not sure how scope has anything to do with it.  This isn’t some complex system where there are a million angles.

[stick9 890]

24 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

How does that matter?  If they are making the same product I am not sure how scope has anything to do with it.  This isn’t some complex system where there are a million angles.

Well, right now you have Tydan, Massive and Bionic all making replacement steel for the edge holder. Massive is selling their product on hockey monkey. 

I'm no patent laywer, but this makes me think they found something. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

Well, right now you have Tydan, Massive and Bionic all making replacement steel for the edge holder. Massive is selling their product on hockey monkey. 

I'm no patent laywer, but this makes me think they found something. 

you have BT ad well. 2 of them have gotten letters. 

Massive is European is it not?? that's another kettle of fish 

if you found a company able to build the same Quality in China you'd be laughing. US lawyers wouldn't touch it. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

I find this to be the most interesting part of the entire situation 

 

"Bauer Hockey has continuously invested into its newest skate collections, including with the recent launch of the new Bauer Pulse Ti and Pulse blades. The Pulse Ti utilizes a titanium coating to increase durability and offers premium in-game edge retention.

Additionally, the new Bauer steel product line features the highest-performing steel on the market, and a new custom program through the MyBauer platform. New blade profiles were developed and tested in partnership with premier skate profiler, ProSharp, and allow for greater ice contact and maximum consistency throughout each stride and turn."

[BenBreeg 493]

Didn’t Custom Tacks have a titanium coating in the early 90s?

[boo10 323]

58 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Didn’t Custom Tacks have a titanium coating in the early 90s?

Daoust 501s had titanium blades circa 1989

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

4 hours ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

I find this to be the most interesting part of the entire situation 

 

"Bauer Hockey has continuously invested into its newest skate collections, including with the recent launch of the new Bauer Pulse Ti and Pulse blades. The Pulse Ti utilizes a titanium coating to increase durability and offers premium in-game edge retention.

Additionally, the new Bauer steel product line features the highest-performing steel on the market, and a new custom program through the MyBauer platform. New blade profiles were developed and tested in partnership with premier skate profiler, ProSharp, and allow for greater ice contact and maximum consistency throughout each stride and turn."

But they should have had it ready to launch prior to making Step stop so that the NHL had time to test and endorse.  Now you just pissed everyone off. Highly likely they wont be as receptive now. 

especially the profiling aspect. 

 

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

28 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

But they should have had it ready to launch prior to making Step stop so that the NHL had time to test and endorse.  Now you just pissed everyone off. Highly likely they wont be as receptive now. 

especially the profiling aspect. 

 

 

I assume you meant to say, now THEY pissed everyone off. Not YOU. I didn't do anything 😉 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Just now, SkateWorksPNW said:

I assume you meant to say, now THEY pissed everyone off. Not YOU. I didn't do anything 😉 

You know it!! Hahahaha

[Mister_NoDangles 7]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:34 AM, psulion22 said:

Why would most pros care (or even know) what kind of steel they're using?  They have EQMs to care for them.  Things like durability and edge retention matter to guys like us that want to have sharp skates without having to pay for sharpenings or steel more often.  They matter to an EQM who has to sharpen and maintain dozens of pairs of skates/runners in a short period of time.  As long as the skates are sharp and cut to give the characteristics the player likes, pros don't give one second's thought to what brand of steel is on the skate.  Bauer isn't going to alienate any pros by doing this.  They may piss off a few EQMs who have to cut skates more often, but that's not likely to affect thier usage amongst players in the league.

Ehhh there is a difference in the way steel feels on the ice. I'd say some pros might care. There are some really picky people out there.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 10/27/2019 at 5:10 PM, oldtrainerguy28 said:

you have BT ad well. 2 of them have gotten letters. 

Massive is European is it not?? that's another kettle of fish 

if you found a company able to build the same Quality in China you'd be laughing. US lawyers wouldn't touch it. 

I heard that a few NHL equipment managers have seen the new Bauer steel and commented "It’s nowhere close to being as good as STEP." I guess we will see how things play out. 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by SkateWorksPNW

[JR Boucicaut 3798]

2 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Really? I find the ProSharp Quad profile to be amazing. I will never go back to single.

It was about the steel, not the profile.  

What Bauer/Prosharp is going to do is offer custom profiles through the MyBauer portal.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

31 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

It was about the steel, not the profile.  

What Bauer/Prosharp is going to do is offer custom profiles through the MyBauer portal.

Not to mention I never said anything negative about Prosharp as a company. 

But the more I delve into profiling and blade alignment I can phafthom how people do profiles when A: you have never seen them skate or seen a video of them skate.

B: Confirm the fit and blade alignment. 

I would 70% of the Bauer skates I get in are misaligned. Left skate is usually bent by the trigger and right is toe in heel out. 

If you go by the insole v cut in the back of most if the newer skates it's amazing how far off some of them are.  If say probably the main reason Mathews switched to CCM.  Could never get on his blade the way he wanted. IMO. 

[boo10 323]

1 hour ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Not to mention I never said anything negative about Prosharp as a company. 

But the more I delve into profiling and blade alignment I can phafthom how people do profiles when A: you have never seen them skate or seen a video of them skate.

B: Confirm the fit and blade alignment. 

I would 70% of the Bauer skates I get in are misaligned. Left skate is usually bent by the trigger and right is toe in heel out. 

If you go by the insole v cut in the back of most if the newer skates it's amazing how far off some of them are.  If say probably the main reason Mathews switched to CCM.  Could never get on his blade the way he wanted. IMO. 

Funny you mentioned Matthews as I noticed that he is now using XS holders too.  At the start of the season I believe he had Edge holders on his Jetspeeds.  This may be CCM's window to convince EQMs to switch over to XS holders.

[colins 246]

On 10/28/2019 at 6:56 PM, boo10 said:

Daoust 501s had titanium blades circa 1989

 

And it scrubbed off pretty easy. I owned a pair of these, had them for 10+ years, haven't found a skate as comfortable since.

[JR Boucicaut 3798]

11 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Not to mention I never said anything negative about Prosharp as a company. 

But the more I delve into profiling and blade alignment I can phafthom how people do profiles when A: you have never seen them skate or seen a video of them skate.

B: Confirm the fit and blade alignment. 

I would 70% of the Bauer skates I get in are misaligned. Left skate is usually bent by the trigger and right is toe in heel out. 

If you go by the insole v cut in the back of most if the newer skates it's amazing how far off some of them are.  If say probably the main reason Mathews switched to CCM.  Could never get on his blade the way he wanted. IMO. 

Agreed; I did my best work when I worked out of a rink shop.  Very easy to make an appointment and figure things out.

However, what Prosharp (and I do) with the profile testing is a great option. Having every size runner with different profiles on them is pretty cool.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

8 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Agreed; I did my best work when I worked out of a rink shop.  Very easy to make an appointment and figure things out.

However, what Prosharp (and I do) with the profile testing is a great option. Having every size runner with different profiles on them is pretty cool.

sure if you can afford to have that much wrapped up in extra steel!!

Here is an NHL player that was diagonosed up close. It was first verified at the rink and then adjusted after a treadmill session. 

Formally on one of those Pre-setups that some companies do not sure if they used Prosharp but some form of profiling as per height and weight etc in the first video. 2nd was after watching and blade alignment.  The skates brand new out of the box were so far off its embarrassing.