Recommendation for roh and profile

[Jbear 113]

I play D, I'm feel like I'm still a strong skater (that's what I'm told), 5'9"/165, a lot of east-west, but I'm trying to increase my straight away speed. I feel like I top out and no, matter how much harder I drive...top speed doesn't increase. I'm currently skating in 2xPro's and AS1's w/ Blacksteel and Tydan DLC sharpened to 1/2" roh at a 10' radius.  

I'll give an analogy... I have several kayaks and in one boat, it doesn't matter how hard I paddle, the hull design won't allow it to go any faster. In another I can go faster until I can't paddle any harder.  When I played in college, I just handed my skates to our equipment manager and he handed them back sharpened.  He never asked what I wanted...I never questioned what he did. So... I can live with it as is, but with so many available options...why not to try to improve?  I don't want to give up my sharp turning capability, but I would sure like a little more afterburner. What do you guys/girls suggest? 

 

[stick9 888]

I assume you mean glide. First things first, that 1/2 ROH is an anchor. Time to move to a shallower hollow. Small steps will help ease the transition. Once comfortable, look to switch profiles to something with a bit more surface to ice area.

These things won't turn you in Matt Barzal but you should notice some gains. 

[Jbear 113]

Thanks for the response Stick.  I'm definitely not as east-west as Barzy, but less N/S than Leddy...somewhere in between...styles...not ability 😭

Maybe 5/8 at the same profile as a starting point? 

[xstartxtodayx 343]

I agree with the above... try a slightly shallower ROH first, 5/8" isn't that much of a change but it should feel a little different, give it a skate or two and see what you think.  Then if you want to play with profiles I'd suggest reading up in the Prosharp Project area on this site, there's a TON of info in there to digest but it might give you a better understanding.  I went to my local Pure Hockey since I have a couple of friends who work there, they have a Prosharp machine and offer profiling so I experimented a little.  I felt a difference with the first profile they gave me but it didn't feel right so we tried another one, the second one was great and it allowed me to go even shallower with my ROH (3/4" now from 5/8") which also made a difference (something about more steel on the ice allowing more shallow profile for more glide).  So maybe go talk to your local shop if they offer profiling and start playing around.

[Jbear 113]

Going today! Thanks guys.

[krisdrum 233]

I don't have nearly the experience as most of you guys, but I started on 1/2" also.  Took the step "down" to 5/8" and saw/felt a difference, but it was relatively subtle.  Not long ago went down to 3/4", which I'm finding to be as far as I'd want to go at this time.  It forces me to really focus on getting on my edges, because if I am sloppy, it will slide instead of grip.  I've been toying with going up slight to 11/16" to see if that is a bit easier to deal with. 

[caveman27 208]

11 hours ago, Jbear said:

I play D, I'm feel like I'm still a strong skater (that's what I'm told), 5'9"/165, a lot of east-west, but I'm trying to increase my straight away speed. I feel like I top out and no, matter how much harder I drive...top speed doesn't increase. I'm currently skating in 2xPro's and AS1's w/ Blacksteel and Tydan DLC sharpened to 1/2" roh at a 10' radius.  

I'll give an analogy... I have several kayaks and in one boat, it doesn't matter how hard I paddle, the hull design won't allow it to go any faster. In another I can go faster until I can't paddle any harder.  When I played in college, I just handed my skates to our equipment manager and he handed them back sharpened.  He never asked what I wanted...I never questioned what he did. So... I can live with it as is, but with so many available options...why not to try to improve?  I don't want to give up my sharp turning capability, but I would sure like a little more afterburner. What do you guys/girls suggest? 

I would recommend that you contact JR Boucicaut in the modsquadhockey.com Pro Shop to see if a multi-radius blade might be something you want to try.

Also, you can request to get Flat Bottom V ROH for more glide and keep your current radius.

[psulion22 402]

If you want to increase straight ahead speed, you need to increase surface area with the ice when striding and reduce drag.  Look into a multi-radius profile, maybe a CAG with a flat spot or a triple/quad with a longer radius in the push area.  That will give you more on the blade touching the ice when you push.  To increase glide and reduce drag, you can reduce your ROH, like you have, or go to a FBV.  I don't think one or the other will give the gains you are looking for, you have to do both.

I'm almost exactly you - 5'9" 160 lbs and a defenseman that wants straight line speed.  I used to skate on 8/12' with a 50mm flat with a 95/75 FBV (about 7/16").  But then I tried Flare steel.  It made me so much faster I waas out of control.  I was just crashing into things the first few skates with it.  Now I'm on Flare at 7/8" and a Quad 1 (which is probably too much and I'll lower it to a Quad 0.5 or a triple next set).  If you want to increase your speed, Flare is the way to go.

[Jbear 113]

Really appreciate all of the input! 

So...had the Tydans done to 5/8" and skated public session today.  Switching between the Blacksteel 1/2" and the Tydans.  Honestly, the 5/8 just felt to me like the 1/2 does when I skate them down a bit.  That's good actually because I usually don't like how fresh blades feel until an hour or so use is on them.  These felt good from the start, but...the main thing is that I couldn't really open up to determine whether my straight ahead speed is any different. Tomorrow night I have practice, so that will be helpful. I'm not sure if anyone around here can do multi's, but that is interesting. I know nothing about flare, so...guess I have some reading to do. 

Thanks again guys! 

[caveman27 208]

1 hour ago, Jbear said:

Really appreciate all of the input! 

So...had the Tydans done to 5/8" and skated public session today.  Switching between the Blacksteel 1/2" and the Tydans.  Honestly, the 5/8 just felt to me like the 1/2 does when I skate them down a bit.  That's good actually because I usually don't like how fresh blades feel until an hour or so use is on them.  These felt good from the start, but...the main thing is that I couldn't really open up to determine whether my straight ahead speed is any different. Tomorrow night I have practice, so that will be helpful. I'm not sure if anyone around here can do multi's, but that is interesting. I know nothing about flare, so...guess I have some reading to do. 

Thanks again guys! 

you can mail your blades to a skate shop, like modsquadhockey.com pro shop, and they can alter the radius if you want to try it. The blade is put into a jig and then ground/sharpened just as if it were attached to a skate.

[Above40 7]

That's a great sign that you liked your 5/8" right off the wheel. In my opinion that's where you want to be! I used to wait forever to get my skates sharpened (having to put a few hours on them (or more) before they felt OK again).Probably too common for players to feel this way and it's a good indication their cut is a little too deep.  I skated dull 5/8" forever cause they felt fluid and smooth but I was giving up cornering speed and bite. It kinda happens where a dull skate will (subconsciously) limit performance even though everything feels relatively smooth and good. Now I use a sharp 3/4" and love em. I have to get them done more often but I'm happy to do it cause they are always ready to go and predictable right out of the door. Also I've found shallower hollows can still rip tight corners and be fast and aggressive.. I think the blades profile/radius will be a bigger factor in that regard as long as they are sharp. //BTW Good kayak analogy.. I have a recreational kayak and I paddle my a$$ off and more effort really doesn't get me any more speed as you eluded to.

Flare Steel: I've always wondered how 3mm became the standard and not 4mm or something. (blade thickness) I think I've read they are hard to sharpen? (though I'm not sure why) Something I'd like to try out someday.

[darkhors 88]

I'm a true believer in flat bottom or the Fire (from sparx). I used to use ROH and when I switched over to FBV I noticed an immediate difference in the ease of skating straight (more glide) compared to ROH. I'm now on 5/8 Fire (which feels less sharp than a traditional 5/8 FBV but I still have great edges. Like mentioned above, you'll want to get a profile on those to truly achieve the best performance out of them, but if you go to FBV or Fire you'll notice just how good the edges are and get some added glide.

I've been switching over a bunch of guys in my league from their standard 1/2 ROH to 5/8 Fire and not a single one of them wants to go back. They are all so impressed with how much more glide they're getting while still being able to take tight corners. Most of these guys have been skating for years and years on 1/2 inch and it blows their mind once I get them on the Fire. 

[psulion22 402]

2 hours ago, Above40 said:

Flare Steel: I've always wondered how 3mm became the standard and not 4mm or something. (blade thickness) I think I've read they are hard to sharpen? (though I'm not sure why) Something I'd like to try out someday.

It's not the width that gives the performance.  Goalie steel used to be 4mm.  The increased width caused a feeling of skating on rails.  You lost a ton of agility and lateral motion.  The increase from 3mm to ~4mm is what causes the flare.  That gives you a 6* angle which is what changes everything.  You get a 6* better attack angle for turns, strides, and stops and also a 6* less angle with the ice causing better glide.  Sharpening Flare is no different than any other steel, with the exception that you can't do FBV.  Fire on a Sparx works well, it's the only thing I've ever done on them.

Sticking with your kayak analogy, which is going to give you more speed - using a bigger paddle (altering your ROH) or physically altering the design of the boat (Flare)?

1 hour ago, darkhors said:

I'm a true believer in flat bottom or the Fire (from sparx). I used to use ROH and when I switched over to FBV I noticed an immediate difference in the ease of skating straight (more glide) compared to ROH. I'm now on 5/8 Fire (which feels less sharp than a traditional 5/8 FBV but I still have great edges. Like mentioned above, you'll want to get a profile on those to truly achieve the best performance out of them, but if you go to FBV or Fire you'll notice just how good the edges are and get some added glide.

I've been switching over a bunch of guys in my league from their standard 1/2 ROH to 5/8 Fire and not a single one of them wants to go back. They are all so impressed with how much more glide they're getting while still being able to take tight corners. Most of these guys have been skating for years and years on 1/2 inch and it blows their mind once I get them on the Fire. 

If that's what you like, then get Flare steel.  It's FBV/Fire on steroids.

Edited February 19, 2020 by psulion22

[darkhors 88]

15 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

If that's what you like, then get Flare steel.  It's FBV/Fire on steroids.

They don't make it for the Shift holder (as of now) and the other issue I have with Flare is that you have to consistently alter the ROH as the blade gets smaller. You might start out with 1 1/4 ROH, but as you sharpen (let's say maybe 4 sharpenings) you'll have to move that down to an 1 1/8 to achieve the same cut. Then after another 4 you'll have to move down to 1 inch, so on and so forth until the blade is back to 3mm and you're using your normal ROH (5/8 for example). 

Yes you can continue to sharpen it with whatever hollow you had originally, but you're not getting the same cut as that steel gets smaller and closer to the 3mm part of the blade. So this becomes a little more tedious, not to mention I would need to have more rings on hand to achieve the same throughout the life of the "flare" portion of the blade.

[psulion22 402]

2 minutes ago, darkhors said:

They don't make it for the Shift holder (as of now) and the other issue I have with Flare is that you have to consistently alter the ROH as the blade gets smaller. You might start out with 1 1/4 ROH, but as you sharpen (let's say maybe 4 sharpenings) you'll have to move that down to an 1 1/8 to achieve the same cut. Then after another 4 you'll have to move down to 1 inch, so on and so forth until the blade is back to 3mm and you're using your normal ROH (5/8 for example). 

Yes you can continue to sharpen it with whatever hollow you had originally, but you're not getting the same cut as that steel gets smaller and closer to the 3mm part of the blade. So this becomes a little more tedious, not to mention I would need to have more rings on hand to achieve the same throughout the life of the "flare" portion of the blade.

That is true.  However, I haven't changed my ROH because I don't want to buy more wheels, and I haven't noticed any issues with lack of bite like you would by changing your ROH on normal steel.  I'm just about through my first set of steel, so I'm pretty close to being back to 3mm.  Right now it feels like a still better FBV, but not as amped up as it did when they were new.  Despite that, the performance gains are still worth it.  Not to mention Sparx Fire is no where close to FBV, and since I have a Sparx and don't trust the shop that does FBV to touch my skates, I'm happy getting the Flare for whatever gains I can so I can use my SParx.

[darkhors 88]

4 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

That is true.  However, I haven't changed my ROH because I don't want to buy more wheels, and I haven't noticed any issues with lack of bite like you would by changing your ROH on normal steel.  I'm just about through my first set of steel, so I'm pretty close to being back to 3mm.  Right now it feels like a still better FBV, but not as amped up as it did when they were new.  Despite that, the performance gains are still worth it.  Not to mention Sparx Fire is no where close to FBV, and since I have a Sparx and don't trust the shop that does FBV to touch my skates, I'm happy getting the Flare for whatever gains I can so I can use my SParx.

I might try it if they make it for the shift holder just to see if it would be worth it. What Fire hollow are you using on it or are you just using regular ROH?

I agree that the Fire isn't a direct comparison to FBV, but I actually like it more than FBV now that I've been using it for over a year. I don't know that I'd want to go back.

[psulion22 402]

Just now, darkhors said:

I might try it if they make it for the shift holder just to see if it would be worth it. What Fire hollow are you using on it or are you just using regular ROH?

I agree that the Fire isn't a direct comparison to FBV, but I actually like it more than FBV now that I've been using it for over a year. I don't know that I'd want to go back.

Right now I'm on 7/8" ROH, but plan to go to 3/4" Fire for my next set.  The one thing I find with the Sparx, is that the sharpening feels like one increment larger than the wheel says.   

[stick9 888]

7 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

Right now I'm on 7/8" ROH, but plan to go to 3/4" Fire for my next set.  The one thing I find with the Sparx, is that the sharpening feels like one increment larger than the wheel says.   

I find that to be true with the Fire rings, 5/8 Fire feels very much like a 3/4 ROH. The standard ROH rings feel pretty spot on to me.

[darkhors 88]

18 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I find that to be true with the Fire rings, 5/8 Fire feels very much like a 3/4 ROH. The standard ROH rings feel pretty spot on to me.

I agree with that too. I find that the Fire rings are one increment shallower than what would be FBV. So 5/8 fire would be like 3/4 FBV and 1/2 Fire would be like 5/8 FBV or close to it.

[Jbear 113]

Ok so...5/8 was definitely a faster ride last night. I didn't lose any turning capability and my straight away speed was improved. I'm going to play tomorrow night on 5/8 and then think about trying 3/4 on a set. Also maybe a slightly more aggressive pitch.  Don't want to jack with more than one manipulated variable at a time though.

Going in the right direction...thanks all!