Weighted Hockey Sticks

[jigsaw 0]

What are people take on these? The GELSTX looks awesome but its a bit pricey. Has anyone tried to DIY their own by taking a old one piece and filled the inside with different materials to make it heavier? I added one with water and it make it heavier but not sure if that's good for the stick.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by jigsaw

[the_game 452]

The Gelstx add a gel (obviously) but it distributes the weight evenly throughout the stick and also doesn't mess with the performance of the stick flex wise when shooting, its actually pretty neat. I was able to snag one from a buddy but as a washed up beer leaguer I don't think I would go out of my way to buy one. If I was a younger high school/Junior Hockey player I could see it as a valuable training tool. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

3 hours ago, jigsaw said:

What are people take on these? The GELSTX looks awesome but its a bit pricey. Has anyone tried to DIY their own by taking a old one piece and filled the inside with different materials to make it heavier? I added one with water and it make it heavier but not sure if that's good for the stick.

 

 

I think water would make it too heavy.

One half gallon of water is about 1100 grams + the weight of the hockey stick, which is about 500 grams.

That would weigh significantly more than the Gelstx which we about 1100 grams total. This is because the gel itself doesn't have the same density as water.

I'm not sure what other material you should use but it needs to be a gel or foam so that the density ratio is lower, more volume/less weight, as compared to water. 

Maybe you could use some type of expanding foam like they use for insulation. However that might ruin the stick flex and feel. 

In the old days I would just tape an entire stick from bottom to top and that would add about 290 grams of weight and didn't seem to affect the flex. I would do this to the lower end composite sticks that already weigh about 650 grams. 

[Vet88 674]

I put sand into some old sticks, as long as they are hollow down to the hossel it adds a nice balance to the weight. I have also taped pucks to the bottom of the shaft, doesn't work that well when you shoot but it's good for puck handling and passing. Recently I got hold of some 2kg ankle weights and wrapped those around the bottom of the shaft, they worked really well.

[VegasHockey 1280]

16 hours ago, Vet88 said:

I put sand into some old sticks, as long as they are hollow down to the hossel it adds a nice balance to the weight. I have also taped pucks to the bottom of the shaft, doesn't work that well when you shoot but it's good for puck handling and passing. Recently I got hold of some 2kg ankle weights and wrapped those around the bottom of the shaft, they worked really well.

Sand will affect the weight balance, distribution, and maybe flex if it's filled to the top and capped since the sand would have nowhere to go. Thats also gotta be super heavy! 

Taping pucks to the bottom and using weights, is what I did as a kid, works in a pinch but it's not quite the same feeling. I think he is wanting a stick he can use during practice or dryland to keep the similar feel of his game stick without impacting flex and weight distribution which could result in him changing how he shoots with his game stick. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[YesLanges 127]

After destroying one stick on concrete, I've been using those plastic blade protector sleeves, which work surprisingly well and aren't noticeable at all. You just need to use some tape (front and back, not wrapped around the bottom of the blade) to secure them. When I noticed that they make a weighted metal training version, I just taped a couple of AA batteries down by the bottom of the shaft, which is the same weight as the metal weighted training version of the sleeve. It works very well, but it felt like it was going to give me lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) on my top hand, so I stopped using it. 

[colins 246]

 

I think the premise is bogus. A lot of better things to spend your time on that practicing with a weighted stick.

[BenBreeg 493]

I don’t think the premise is bogus at all, I just question the price when with a little thought I am sure DIY solutions would work.

[Westside 232]

For a while I was using a wood stick outdoors. The weight made going back to a composite stick on ice feel like I was holding nothing. I was just using it for stickhandling, not shooting though

[colins 246]

3 minutes ago, Westside said:

For a while I was using a wood stick outdoors. The weight made going back to a composite stick on ice feel like I was holding nothing. I was just using it for stickhandling, not shooting though

 

But how does practicing mechanics of stick handling with a heavy stick translate into being a better stick handler with a lighter stick?

[Westside 232]

6 minutes ago, colins said:

But how does practicing mechanics of stick handling with a heavy stick translate into being a better stick handler with a lighter stick?

Builds up forearm muscles. My through process was if I could increase my stickhandling speed with a heavier stick, that would translate to even faster performance with a composite. Same idea of skating with weights on your skates

[215BroadStBullies610 435]

Yea, I bought a GELSTX a couple of months back due to me "staying away" from the rink until further notice. Definitely heavier but, as mentioned early, the stick is well balanced. Since I've been working from home, I'll take just a couple of minutes during my lunch break to do some simple stickhandling. In just that short time both forearms experience a healthy burn (especially my top hand = my non-dominant hand). It will be interesting to see when I use a normal stick again haha. 

[colins 246]

19 hours ago, Westside said:

Builds up forearm muscles. My through process was if I could increase my stickhandling speed with a heavier stick, that would translate to even faster performance with a composite. Same idea of skating with weights on your skates

 

That sounds reasonable but I don't think it accomplishes the end goal.

Modern speed training is focused on one thing - if you want to be fast you need to train fast. Training slow(er) with weights does not accomplish the goal of being faster without weights.

If you want to get fast, sprint.

If you want fast hands for stick handling, if anything, go with lighter weight and move faster than you would with regular weight.

You are training your central nervous system moreso than your muscles. If you arms are strong enough to lift a composite stick, making them stronger is not going to make them faster.

If stronger muscles led to faster movements baseball pitchers would have huge bulking arms to throw the ball harder. 

My two cents! 

 

[jigsaw 0]

21 minutes ago, colins said:

 

That sounds reasonable but I don't think it accomplishes the end goal.

Modern speed training is focused on one thing - if you want to be fast you need to train fast. Training slow(er) with weights does not accomplish the goal of being faster without weights.

If you want to get fast, sprint.

If you want fast hands for stick handling, if anything, go with lighter weight and move faster than you would with regular weight.

You are training your central nervous system moreso than your muscles. If you arms are strong enough to lift a composite stick, making them stronger is not going to make them faster.

If stronger muscles led to faster movements baseball pitchers would have huge bulking arms to throw the ball harder. 

My two cents! 

 

i think for me i want to develop a stronger top hand and which allow me to be stronger on the puck. I find i have a weak top hand and can't move the puck as quick as i like when i have just the top hand on the stick while i use my other arm to defend a check. I do also see pros are using weighted stick not just for stickhandling and shooting as well. much like a weighted bat for a baseball player before hitting the mount.

[YesLanges 127]

On 9/29/2020 at 5:42 PM, colins said:

 

You are training your central nervous system moreso than your muscles. If you arms are strong enough to lift a composite stick, making them stronger is not going to make them faster.

I agree with the first part of this and it's the reason that I've previously argued (in some detail) that loosening laces doesn't "strengthen" ankle muscles, but improves your edge control by training your nervous system to improve your balance. "Muscle memory" is a misnomer, which is why you can recover most of your skating ability in a few hours after even a very long layoff and without doing any kind of ankle (or any other kind of) strength training.

I disagree with the second part, only because I think that using a heavier stick is actually a form of CNS training and not really as much strength-training, at least as it relates to stickhandling speed. Admittedly, it's probably impossible to fully separate the CNS-training and strength components of using a weighted stick. The better illustration of the point would be that direct strength training of forearm muscles (through weight training) won't improve stickhandling speed; same goes for the strength component of training with a weighted stick. 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by YesLanges

[YesLanges 127]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:09 PM, jigsaw said:

i think for me i want to develop a stronger top hand and which allow me to be stronger on the puck. I find i have a weak top hand and can't move the puck as quick as i like when i have just the top hand on the stick while i use my other arm to defend a check.

Sorry. I can't figure out how to add a new quote by editing my post.

This -- as opposed to stickhandling speed -- would be exactly the kind of thing that the strength-training component of using a weighted stick would be perfect for. So, its value probably depends substantially on what you're trying to improve by training with it. It probably has a CNS component that benefits stickhandling speed and a strength component that is very useful for improving your ability to control your stick with one hand to whatever extent your inability to do so relates to forearm strength.

Edited October 1, 2020 by YesLanges

[BenBreeg 493]

Speed is power.  Power is the application of force measured by time.  Speed training starts with developing strength then training the CNS to optimally deliver that strength via inter and intra muscular coordination.  So you need to build strength before you can maximize power and speed.

[YesLanges 127]

5 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

Speed is power.  Power is the application of force measured by time.  Speed training starts with developing strength then training the CNS to optimally deliver that strength via inter and intra muscular coordination.  So you need to build strength before you can maximize power and speed.

To the extent that's true, it's for gross motor movements, not fine motor control. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any 100-lb prepubescent peewees with much faster stickhandling skills than fully-grown beer-leagers, including those who've been strength training for years.

Edited October 1, 2020 by YesLanges

[BenBreeg 493]

25 minutes ago, YesLanges said:

To the extent that's true, it's for gross motor movements, not fine motor control. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any 100-lb prepubescent peewees with much faster stickhandling skills than fully-grown beer-leagers, including those who've been strength training for years.

The actual motor control, or coordination of the movement, is an additional factor in applying the vector, not the development of the vector itself.  Its holistic movement, strength applied rapidly in a coordinated manner, three components.  The beer leaguer may have the strength, probably hasn’t developed the speed because they may not practice, and by virtue of being older learns coordinated movement much slower than a kid.

[YesLanges 127]

12 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

The actual motor control, or coordination of the movement, is an additional factor in applying the vector, not the development of the vector itself.  Its holistic movement, strength applied rapidly in a coordinated manner, three components.  The beer leaguer may have the strength, probably hasn’t developed the speed because they may not practice, and by virtue of being older learns coordinated movement much slower than a kid.

But if strength were a significant factor, how would you account for the youngest kids (probably no older than 7 or 8) who can master advanced stickhandling? Forget about the comparison to adult beer-leagers for the moment. To my mind, the fact that some highly-skilled little kids can stickhandle really fast and really well is evidence that strength really isn't a factor in stickhandling speed, especially since they're using regular pucks. 

[BenBreeg 493]

10 minutes ago, YesLanges said:

But if strength were a significant factor, how would you account for the youngest kids (probably no older than 7 or 😎 who can master advanced stickhandling? Forget about the comparison to adult beer-leagers for the moment. To my mind, the fact that some highly-skilled little kids can stickhandle really fast and really well is evidence that strength really isn't a factor in stickhandling speed, especially since they're using regular pucks. 

Need to quantify how fast they are actually doing it as well as the amplitude of the movement first of all.  Since it is a function of multiple variables, you of course can improve speed by training speed, but it will plateau as strength becomes a limiting factor, and you can increase speed by increasing strength until the CNS component would become the limiting factor.  What the coefficient of each of those two variables is, I don’t know but strength is an important component based on physics alone.

 

[YesLanges 127]

5 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Need to quantify how fast they are actually doing it as well as the amplitude of the movement first of all.  Since it is a function of multiple variables, you of course can improve speed by training speed, but it will plateau as strength becomes a limiting factor, and you can increase speed by increasing strength until the CNS component would become the limiting factor.  What the coefficient of each of those two variables is, I don’t know but strength is an important component based on physics alone.

 

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree, because we're starting to go around in circles, which is exactly what happened in the thread about ankle "strength" and loosening laces. All I'm saying is that I think these examples illustrate that strength can't possibly be an important component of differences in stickhandling speed. This is 100% technique-dependent and 0% strength dependent. Advanced fast stickhandling is mostly about wrist roll, blade angle, and letting the puck slide out from the heel instead of lifting the blade over the puck on every pass. If anything, more efficient, high-level wrist-rolling probably takes less strength than inefficient lower-level, bottom-hand-dominant stickhandling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ30YsZdNU8

At 1:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USQZyvVhYvs

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by YesLanges

[colins 246]

10 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Speed is power.  Power is the application of force measured by time.  Speed training starts with developing strength then training the CNS to optimally deliver that strength via inter and intra muscular coordination.  So you need to build strength before you can maximize power and speed.

 

Modern speed training doesn't not align with the above.

Speed is not created in the weight room. Speed training develops strength moreso that strength training develops speed.

We're way off topic but for anyone interested follow the guys like Tony Holler and Mike Boyle for more info. 

[colins 246]

9 hours ago, YesLanges said:

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree, because we're starting to go around in circles, which is exactly what happened in the thread about ankle "strength" and loosening laces. All I'm saying is that I think these examples illustrate that strength can't possibly be an important component of differences in stickhandling speed. This is 100% technique-dependent and 0% strength dependent. Advanced fast stickhandling is mostly about wrist roll, blade angle, and letting the puck slide out from the heel instead of lifting the blade over the puck on every pass. If anything, more efficient, high-level wrist-rolling probably takes less strength than inefficient lower-level, bottom-hand-dominant stickhandling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ30YsZdNU8

At 1:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USQZyvVhYvs

 

 

 

I agree with the above. If you want to get fast at stick handling, practice stick handling fast. Don't practice it slower with a weighted stick and expect that will translate to speed. 

[Vet88 674]

22 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

Speed is power.  Power is the application of force measured by time.  Speed training starts with developing strength then training the CNS to optimally deliver that strength via inter and intra muscular coordination.  So you need to build strength before you can maximize power and speed.

Drew Doughty is an example of how this isn't true. Drafted as an elite skater with very good stick handling skills, at his Kings first camp he was last in just about every metric possible wrt strength. For example he could only do 2 chin ups.

Further examples of this are found all throughout pro sport, players who bulk up on strength in the off season and come back slower than before (very relevant in rugby league and rugby union). Yes, strength is a component in the overall picture but it isn't the reason you are fast at something, your fast twitch muscles are.

And in full agreement with @YesLanges, as someone who has spent the last 3 years training every day with laces untied, I can guarantee you that at the ripe age of pushing towards 60, I ain't ever going to get any stronger yet I'm skating better now than I was in my younger days (when I ironically thought I was a good skater lol). Yes, you will get a small % edge as your strength increases (eg power in stride) but your base speed, technique and muscle coordination are not driven by strength.