Trying 100k's Next Week

[Jbear 113]

Just from the  "Is this skate worth it?" perspective...Seems like a fluke...which happens.  I had AS1s and have had AS3 Pros since they came out.  I block a lot of shots relative to most people I observe and my skates are holding up exceptionally well. I'm probably on the ice 5x week.  I wouldn't write them off if you like how they feel and ride, but I'd definitely be pissed.

[noupf 42]

14 minutes ago, Jbear said:

Just from the  "Is this skate worth it?" perspective...Seems like a fluke...which happens.  I had AS1s and have had AS3 Pros since they came out.  I block a lot of shots relative to most people I observe and my skates are holding up exceptionally well. I'm probably on the ice 5x week.  I wouldn't write them off if you like how they feel and ride, but I'd definitely be pissed.

Good to know.  I always hate to see the failure of something you are thinking about purchasing.  It usually taints the product in my head, but in the grand scheme for things, its 1 out of thousands that had this failure  Hopefully just a fluke.

[stick9 890]

In my opinion. CCM should automatically replace the skates as a warrantee claim. Whatever time is left on the 90 day satisfaction guarantee should be transferred to the replacement pair. My reasoning, the damage prevented you from using them for the full 90 day period. 

Maybe you could argue that you are no longer satisfied with the skate due to the damage from routine use. Either way, I'd reach out to CCM directly and see what they say.

[boo10 323]

27 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

This is more or less what I said. 

CCM is willing to honor the warranty if that's the route I choose. 

The store has said they'll refund me store credit for the skates to pick something else if I want. So that's what I'll be doing. I liked the CCM but unfortunately first impressions are first impressions and I don't want to be stuck with the same issue out of warranty. 

Don't trust what the store is telling you.  Store is either lying or won't advocate for you.  Contact CCM yourself and explain that your are unhappy with the skates and the store won't process the return under the 90 day guarantee.  It's supposed to be no questions asked, but the reason you're unsatisfied is the lack of durability.  If you push the right buttons, you'll get your money back.

[beedee 227]

Keep us posted regarding the Machs.

[stick9 890]

14 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I kind of thought that in the back of my head, but at the end of the day the store is giving me credit for my original purchase so I just went ahead an ordered some Machs after trying them on in store. I'm happy to give them my business and hopefully build some loyalty up. 

If a CCM rep comes on here and reads this, they're more than welcome to PM me and they can deal with the seller directly if it upsets them, but at this point I'm not getting involved. Call it a byproduct of having the policy in the first place. If CCM is delegating execution of the guarantee to it's sellers, they shouldn't be surprised if some are a little self-serving at their expense.

The store has some skin in the game. If you get your money back you can take your business to another shop. Giving you a store credit seems like a nice gesture, and it is, but it also assures them the sale. And it's not really true to the nature of the 90 day satisfaction guarantee.

Anyway, good to hear you got it sorted out.

 

[noupf 42]

16 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I kind of thought that in the back of my head, but at the end of the day the store is giving me credit for my original purchase so I just went ahead an ordered some Machs after trying them on in store. I'm happy to give them my business and hopefully build some loyalty up. 

If a CCM rep comes on here and reads this, they're more than welcome to PM me and they can deal with the seller directly if it upsets them, but at this point I'm not getting involved. Call it a byproduct of having the policy in the first place. If CCM is delegating execution of the guarantee to it's sellers, they shouldn't be surprised if some are a little self-serving at their expense.

Honestly, by everything you have said so far, it sounds like the store is circumventing the "90 Day Guarantee, no questions asked warranty" that's offered by CCM just to keep the sale like @stick9 said.   If you are happy with what the store is offering you, that's ok too, but I think that if CCM got involved directly, you'd be able to get your money back and go elsewhere if you chose to.

Edited June 29, 2022 by noupf

[noupf 42]

4 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

Yes, the only thing that would change would I could immediately go to my LHS and get the one pair of Machs they have. However, it will take likely as long to get a hold of CCM to weigh in on the guarantee as it would to just take the other store up on their offer of a "refund" for the CCM's. 

Frankly, if they want to stick their neck out here and "deny" the 90-day guarantee, then that's on them if things go south with my Bauer replacements because I will then I will remind them why I got them in the first place (if that makes sense).

I think i follow what you are saying, but that could be a very slippery slope to go down.  CCM has the 90 day satisfaction guarantee, which the shop is honoring......sort of.  Without getting in touch with CCM directly, you wont know if it was handled correctly.  Fast forward a couple weeks and maybe you end up dis-liking the Machs, Bauer doesn't offer any satisfaction warranty do they?  So at this point, you are putting the shop in a difficult position to let you return a pair of skates that you do not like, correct?

[noupf 42]

1 minute ago, pgeorgan said:

More or less, but remember it is the shop that is leaving me with the only option of store credit here after initially asking them to honor the CCM 90-day guarantee. 

I'm kind of curious, to be honest. I'm going to try to hunt down a CCM contact number or email and ask them directly. 

I think thats the best option, so at least you know what the correct remedy should be for this situation and not necessarily what the shop is telling you.  If you decide to try the Machs, i would ask them in advance, what options you would have just in case you do not like them. 

[noupf 42]

17 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

There's no guarantee for Bauer as I'm sure everyone knows. 

So, I contacted CCM directly from a number on their website. They were surprisingly easy to get a hold of. I had a pleasant conversation with them and they said the boot break more or less would not void the 90-day guarantee. He said he had to check with the Marketing Dept. ? to double check and would email me back, but that he didn't see any reason why they'd disagree.

New development. CCM emailed me back and said

"I just got a response from the marketing department. To have access to the 90 days fit guarantee program the skates must be in resalable condition. So, unfortunately in your case you will have to apply for the warranty on our website and we can send you either another pair or a voucher (if you are in 90 days of course)."

WOW, now that's an interesting twist.  Looks like the shop you purchased from is offering you a better option than what CCM is. Granted, you can get a brand new pair of 100K's or a voucher, but if you go the voucher route, you have to purchase another CCM skate, which I believe you are not interested in doing, correct?  

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by noupf

[noupf 42]

1 minute ago, pgeorgan said:

Yes, it does appear that way. 

Correct, I've already tried the Jetspeed and didn't like them. There's no way I'm going to like the Tack line. Too stiff for me. 

Machs it is. 

For the record, I did really like the 100k Pro fit. But I don't want to risk the breakage being a design issue. Tough call. 

Yea, that sucks.  Especially if you really liked them.  I personally was looking at the 100k's, but I too am now tainted bc of this.  Was it likely a one time fluke of a failure, probably, but now that it happened, you'll worry about it all the time.  Like you said, tough call.

[boo10 323]

53 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

There's no guarantee for Bauer as I'm sure everyone knows. 

So, I contacted CCM directly from a number on their website. They were surprisingly easy to get a hold of. I had a pleasant conversation with them and they said the boot break more or less would not void the 90-day guarantee. He said he had to check with the Marketing Dept. ? to double check and would email me back, but that he didn't see any reason why they'd disagree.

New development. CCM emailed me back and said

"I just got a response from the marketing department. To have access to the 90 days fit guarantee program the skates must be in resalable condition. So, unfortunately in your case you will have to apply for the warranty on our website and we can send you either another pair or a voucher (if you are in 90 days of course)."

Waiting for a response on whether or not the warrantied replacement pair would have a new 90-day Guarantee? 

Seems like it's being resolved to your satisfaction, so probably not worth the effort and aggravation to pursue with CCM, but I think if you forced the issue you'd eventually get them to honour the satisfaction guarantee. 

Below is the info from CCM's website.  As I read it, the only possible out for them is the reference to "Limited Warranty to North America", but I see nothing in the warranty language, so I don't think that's the case.  With CCM being headquartered in Quebec which has the strictest consumer protection laws in Canada, you'd have a very strong case to make them honour the guarantee.  A call to the province would be a headache they would want to avoid. (Source, my job requires me to deal with Quebec government ministries, and they are a royal PITA).

SKATES

Skates are warranted against manufacturing defects and workmanship under normal use and maintenance for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of sale to the consumer when used as intended under normal use and alterations.

90 DAY SATISFACTION GUARANTEE - LEGAL POLICY

We're so sure that you will love your new CCM skates that if you aren’t satisfied for any reason, you can return them within 90 days of purchase. The 90 Day Satisfaction Guarantee applies to SR skate models over $199 and INT-JR skate models over $99. LIMITED WARRANTY TO NORTH AMERICA.

The skate models set forth in this table are also subject to CCM’s 90 DAY SATISFACTION GUARANTEE which allows purchasers of eligible skate models to return the product to the retailer they bought them from if they are unsatisfied with the product. Upon presentation of the product to the retailer (along with proof of purchase) within 90 days of its date of purchase, the retailers will fully refund the customer in the full amount of the purchase price.

 

[noupf 42]

22 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

Indeed it is being remedied to my satisfaction, but it would've been easier had they just honored the 90-day guarantee. I could've been in new skates by now with the old ones on their way back. Instead I have to wait a couple days. Whatever. 

And you are correct, that is all the verbiage I could find on the policy. There is literally no fine print.

So, someone at CCM needs to get their proverbial sh*t together and just spell it out for people. Either stand behind your product or don't. The Guarantee is sold as a risk-free trial, but it's really not. And that was honestly my intuition going into it, but I chose to give CCM the benefit of the doubt on the second pair. On the first pair I demoed, the Jetspeeds, I ONLY took them to sticks and pucks. Tried them a couple times and sent them back. I was very nervous to get them marked up. Perhaps had I actually used them for a few months, maybe they would've been the preferred pair. 

Just curious, where did you purchase the 100k's from?  You said something about a LHS in one of your previous responses as an option to get the Machs if you had gotten the refund from the place you purchased the 100k's from.......or did i miss read something?

[noupf 42]

1 minute ago, pgeorgan said:

HM. 

So, they're the ones mailing me Machs. Otherwise, my LHS has some in my size and I could've been skating in them tonight...

ahhh, ok.

[Jbear 113]

What is the flex profile of the Mach?  Ribcore is the softest flex in the CCM pro lineup.  I assumed that the Mach was replacing the Supreme??? 2S Pros were super-stiff, so I didn't even consider the Mach.  I already have a stiff skate (AS3 Pro) and just got a pair of 70k pro stocks cuz I wanna flexible skate to alternate with.  So...what's the skinny on the Mach?

[Jbear 113]

Kool...thank you 🏒🇨🇦🥅👍😎

I did like the flex of the 2xPro's but I'm so spoiled by the way CCM fits my feet...I just couldn't get the Vapors to feel like that no matter what I tried.  Can't try True or Graf...my LHS only carries the the majors.  I'm in GA, so I'm just grateful to have an LHS in any capacity 🤣.  Mine is very good...but Bauer or CCM...those are the choices. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Jbear

[Jbear 113]

As an aside...I took two rockets off my left skate last night. My foot is a technicolor masterpiece. Not a mark on my skate though. One was straight on, the second was about where the OPs skate busted.

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:00 PM, pgeorgan said:

Ya I'm not totally thrilled with a replacement being the only option. I guess I could try to go that route and sell the new ones if I'm really that concerned but ya so much for 90-day guarantee.

To be fair, this is the manager speaking on behalf of CCM. I don't think CCM has actually weighed in either way, so I kindly asked that they double checked and gave my reasons why. 

Where did you buy them from? I talked to my CCM rep, who said that would qualify for a return under the 90-day guarantee.

[winston9332 0]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:53 AM, pgeorgan said:

Yes, it does appear that way. Let's not give them TOO much credit, though. I suspect they'll just claim the warranty for themselves and put the new CCM skate back into their inventory. The only real loser here is still CCM. 

Correct, I've already tried the Jetspeed and didn't like them. There's no way I'm going to like the Tack line. Too stiff for me. 

Machs it is. 

For the record, I did really like the 100k Pro fit. But I don't want to risk the breakage being a design issue. Tough call. 

Did machs fit similarly w the 100Ks in respects of size? In other words, were you the same size in bath?

[winston9332 0]

8 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

Just got back from a skate. Absolutely loved the Machs. To the extent they are different from the Ultrasonics, I can't say - I've never skated in Supreme player skates. Probably going with the Vapor line all this time was the wrong choice for me. I was led to believe they had the least amount of volume, all things being equal. Might have something to do with the Supreme line having a thicker felt tongue as compared to the Hyperlite's very thin one.

Bauer isn't lying when they say the Supreme line is for power and control. The Ribcore is a great skate, as well. I believe it's accurate to say it's more for agility. 

As far as the fit, I think there was more room in the toe and ankle of the Machs as compared to the Ribcore. I had slight ankle pressure in the CCM's. Both skates gave me great heel lock. If you like to cinch your top eyelets a little tighter, I'd say go with the Machs, as I personally felt them to have more forward flex in the boot itself. 

Same size in machs as 100K?

[Jbear 113]

Respectfully..."power and control" is...IMO...straight up marketing. I bet you can skate with power, control, agility, speed...etc.  in any skate if you're a strong skater.  My opinion...having skated in many high end skates (from 1977-current)...it's all about what feels good on your feet and accommodates your stride and edges. I'm not slower in Ribcores or Vapors, nor am I faster in Tacks.  That doesn't negate what you are feeling in your skates.  Just saying that if you feel better doing certain things in a given boot...it's because of your mechanics.  Maybe I'm full of it, but that's my take. Same thing with twigs...if I have the right feel/balance and flex...kickpoint means nothing to me. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Jbear

[DSOP 1]

On 6/29/2022 at 7:53 AM, pgeorgan said:

've already tried the Jetspeed and didn't like them. There's no way I'm going to like the Tack line. Too stiff for me. 

Machs it is. 

For the record, I did really like the 100k Pro fit. 

What made you decide on the Bauer Supreme Mach skates? Did you consider the Vapor line? I'm curious, because I'm trying to decide between the Supreme M5 Pro and Vapor 3X Pro.

I returned my Ribcor 100K skates yesterday under the 90-day warranty. The tongue on my left skate kept detaching every time I was putting that skate on, and it was a PITA. CCM wouldn't just send me a replacement tongue and told me to deal with the store directly.  Problem is that the store is 50 miles away (the only place that had my size in stock) and I can't be bothered taking a chance that I would have to return there. Since every CCM skate has that silly replaceable tongue feature (probably great for pros, but useless over engineering for me), I decided to look into Bauer.

Which Bauer skate has the best flexibility, like the Ribcor?

Edited July 3, 2022 by DSOP

[DSOP 1]

Thanks for the prompt reply!

I only skated in the Ribcor six or seven times.  Before that, I hadn't been on skates in about 15 years.  My last skates were the CCM Tacks 252 which I purchased new sometime in the late 80s (basically a leather boot). I'm kind of at a loss with the new stuff from CCM and Bauer.

There aren't many stores selling skates, let alone much of a used market in Los Angeles. Add the pandemic to the equation, and stock is low everywhere.

 

[DSOP 1]

Cool, good to know. I'll see if I can find those M5 Pro skates in my size to try on (the Mach is too pricey for me).

Thanks!

[Jbear 113]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

Having skated side by side, I disagree. They def. have different shaped boots. The supremes are more upright which I feel prevents more power leak per stride. 

To your point, I think the Supremes accommodate something closer to a back squat, which is where you're going to get most of your power. There are subtle/not-so-subtle differences in each boot. Some might care for it, but sure, others might not. 

This is just my take, but you can't really know until you've tried both. Now I have. 

Exactly what I mean...someone else may jump into the those same skates and feel differently cuz they may have different skating mechanics. 

Anyway...I'm not trying to be argumentative at all.  I'd like folks to be aware that it's all about how the gear feels to you...only. I see a lot of folks (teammates and kids I coach) buy the wrong equipment (for them) because they go off of the marketing and anesthetics. That's all.  Now I'm wanting to try Machs🤣.