need advice/help Can't skate properly on new CCM Ribcor

[Peter Pin 11]

Hey there

 

First post here.

 

So long story short. Used to play 2-3 times a week when I was 6 years old until maybe 14-15YO. Then stopped hockey when I discovered girls existed.

Now in my mid 30s. Back to play 3 years ago in a beer league with some 4K Reebok skates. 280mm runners. Skated very well with them but not comfy enough.

Decided to buy new skates.

So bought CCM Ribcor with Step blacksteel. Super comfy but damm I feel like I skate like sh*t with them.

Played about 10 games so far and can’t find the edge, can’t be solid on my feet, no balance, no grip, fell often on ice, I always feel like they aren’t sharpened enough. Even if they are at 7/16'' ROH. Recently had them profiled cag one 35/65 after a chat with the guy at my pro shop. But I don't think he played with the radius.

Still not able to find the grip and edge I had with the Reebok’s. Any  idea why I feel like this?

 

I suspect the radius is very short with the Reeboks has there is not a lot of steel left on the blades. Compared to the new high blades.

 

 

I read a lot here about skate profiling and pretty confident this would help me having the CCM profiled properly. Thinking about Quad 0.5 profile as starting point.

Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Peter Pin

[puckpilot 314]

How tight do you tie your skates? Specifically, how much ankle mobility do you have? When I hear about someone having trouble gripping the ice regardless of how sharp their skates are, I'm thinking it's an edge alignment issue, meaning you're having trouble getting your edges lined up properly against the ice over the blade's balance point. There can be lots of different reasons for this, including but not limited to laces too tight, thus restricting ankle mobility, ill fitting skates, or simply a flaw in technique. One thing I'm fairly certain it isn't is the profile. But without actually seeing you skate, this is all speculation on my part.

[Peter Pin 11]

49 minutes ago, puckpilot said:

How tight do you tie your skates? Specifically, how much ankle mobility do you have? When I hear about someone having trouble gripping the ice regardless of how sharp their skates are, I'm thinking it's an edge alignment issue, meaning you're having trouble getting your edges lined up properly against the ice over the blade's balance point. There can be lots of different reasons for this, including but not limited to laces too tight, thus restricting ankle mobility, ill fitting skates, or simply a flaw in technique. One thing I'm fairly certain it isn't is the profile. But without actually seeing you skate, this is all speculation on my part.

I doubt it’s a technique problem. In all modesty, I think im a good  skater. Some other guys of the league, during the first season, told me they find I’m a solid skater and we’re surprised I didn’t play for more than 10 years. But that was with the Reeboks…

As far as lacing, yeah I tend to lace my skates more tight than not. Maybe it reduces mobility or prevent me for being at the right balance point. 
 

But talking about mobility I just remember I didn’t bake the CCMs when I bought them. I was in a hurry when I bought them and there was 3-4 other customer waiting to have their skates baked before me so I left without the baking treatment. Could it be related ? I guess I should bake them at home now.

As far as profile, the difference in blade shape from the old Reebok vs the steps on the CCM still makes me believe it has some impact. 

 

 

 

[stick9 908]

This to me sounds like an edge issue. We're they sharpened properly? Are your edges level? 

Pretty sure they come with a standard 10' radius, least that's how they feel to me. Comparing profiles is tough because they change over time.

Edited September 14, 2021 by stick9

[marka 526]

Howdy,

13 hours ago, Peter Pin said:

As far as profile, the difference in blade shape from the old Reebok vs the steps on the CCM still makes me believe it has some impact. 

 

That certainly can/will affect things!

I agree that you should check and make sure that your edges are level, but past that I tend to agree that this sounds more like a profile or pitch issue to me.  Unfortunately, I think (particularly remotely) you're in for some trial/error getting it figured out but perhaps post some pictures here of your runners from the old skates overlaid with the new runners to highlight the differences?

As for baking... I would think that would impact comfort in the skates much more than actual performance on the ice.  That said... Yes you should be baking skates, IMHO.

Mark

[Peter Pin 11]

1 hour ago, marka said:

Howdy,

 

That certainly can/will affect things!

I agree that you should check and make sure that your edges are level, but past that I tend to agree that this sounds more like a profile or pitch issue to me.  Unfortunately, I think (particularly remotely) you're in for some trial/error getting it figured out but perhaps post some pictures here of your runners from the old skates overlaid with the new runners to highlight the differences?

As for baking... I would think that would impact comfort in the skates much more than actual performance on the ice.  That said... Yes you should be baking skates, IMHO.

Mark

I'll try to upload images later today or tomorrow. But even with naked eye, the difference is huge and pretty sure the Reeboks have a very short radius. Which would make sense because it was so easy to change direction, agility was good with them and great explosion from a stop. But the glide and top speed were poor. COmpared to the new CCMs with which once I'm launched, glide is great.

I had the CCMs sharpen about 5 times since I bought them at about 2 different respected/trusted places with a different  sharpener each time (9/16, 1/2 and 7/16 were tried) and feeling were mostly similar each time. So I don't think not level edges issue.   I'll bake the CCMs  definitely.

 

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

This to me sounds like an edge issue. We're they sharpened properly? Are your edges level? 

Pretty sure they come with a standard 10' radius, least that's how they feel to me. Comparing profiles is tough because they change over time.

As mentioned above, I'm pretty sure its not a edge issue since I had them sharpened several times so far at different respected shops.

Thanks for the info about the stock 10' radius. I think I have nothing to lose in trying quad profile or shorter radius. I should bring the old Reeboks to the place that will do the profiling as reference I guess.

Only thing is I live in Quebec city area and the only places that do quad profile are about 2.5h away in Montreal area.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Peter Pin

[caveman27 208]

23 hours ago, Peter Pin said:

Hey there

 

First post here.

 

So long story short. Used to play 2-3 times a week when I was 6 years old until maybe 14-15YO. Then stopped hockey when I discovered girls existed.

Now in my mid 30s. Back to play 3 years ago in a beer league with some 4K Reebok skates. 280mm runners. Skated very well with them but not comfy enough.

Decided to buy new skates.

So bought CCM Ribcor with Step blacksteel. Super comfy but damm I feel like I skate like sh*t with them.

Played about 10 games so far and can’t find the edge, can’t be solid on my feet, no balance, no grip, fell often on ice, I always feel like they aren’t sharpened enough. Even if they are at 7/16'' ROH. Recently had them profiled cag one 35/65 after a chat with the guy at my pro shop. But I don't think he played with the radius.

Still not able to find the grip and edge I had with the Reebok’s. Any  idea why I feel like this?

 

I suspect the radius is very short with the Reeboks has there is not a lot of steel left on the blades. Compared to the new high blades.

I read a lot here about skate profiling and pretty confident this would help me having the CCM profiled properly. Thinking about Quad 0.5 profile as starting point.

Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks

 

 

I hate slipping or losing an edge while trying to sprint, turn or stop hard. That sounds like smaller ROH might fix the grip issue.

No balance. That might be the pitch and/or radius. Do you feel like your skates are pushing you back on your heels while doing deep cross overs (going with positive or aggressive pitch would help)? Or do you feel like your skates make it like you are tripping on the tip of your toes (negative pitch would help)? Sometimes, skates and blade holders have built in aggressive pitch which may or may not work with you.

A larger radius profile may make the skates feel like you've lost agility, like ability to pivot quickly going backwards to forwards and vice versa, or you cannot turn in deep and hard, like you are skating on cross-country skis. A smaller profile would help, or if you go with a multi-radius profile, a smaller front radius would help.

If you still have your old Reeboks, one thing would be to ask the sharpener to find out the radius and ROH on your old skates and put that on your new skates. 

 

Just read the post before this... sounds like I just regurgitated what was written. 😂 LOL. Good luck.

Edited September 14, 2021 by caveman27

[Peter Pin 11]

27 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

 

I hate slipping or losing an edge while trying to sprint, turn or stop hard. That sounds like smaller ROH might fix the grip issue.

No balance. That might be the pitch and/or radius. Do you feel like your skates are pushing you back on your heels while doing deep cross overs (going with positive or aggressive pitch would help)? Or do you feel like your skates make it like you are tripping on the tip of your toes (negative pitch would help)? Sometimes, skates and blade holders have built in aggressive pitch which may or may not work with you.

A larger radius profile may make the skates feel like you've lost agility, like ability to pivot quickly going backwards to forwards and vice versa, or you cannot turn in deep and hard, like you are skating on cross-country skis. A smaller profile would help, or if you go with a multi-radius profile, a smaller front radius would help.

If you still have your old Reeboks, one thing would be to ask the sharpener to find out the radius and ROH on your old skates and put that on your new skates. 

 

Just read the post before this... sounds like I just regurgitated what was written. 😂 LOL. Good luck.

Thanks for your input.

Yeah that slipping feeling (no grip with ice) is a really bad . I just cant play with confidence. Even at 7/16 ROH, which is very short IMO, I have that feeling. Not sure I want to go 3/8... I'd ratter get in the profiling circus (trial/error).

Honestly the balance isn't that bad. The lack of grip is maybe 80% of the issue. I guess I lose some balance because I try to put my weight at the right spot (more to the toes or more to the heel) while accelerating to get some grip and find the edge. And it's the same for when I try tro brake. I just slip on surface of the ice. Not inside the ice.  But while standing still, I don't feel I'm pitched to front or back. Seem well balanced.

I will definitely bring the old Reeboks to the shop that will profile the blades.

[beerleaguecaptain 1004]

I had a similar experience when I tried to go from softer skates to composite.  Frankly I think they were too stiff for me.  @puckpilot might be on the right track with this.

[Vet88 674]

Given your past skill level, my bet is the holders. They will be mounted slightly differently from the center line than your 4ks, the feeling of no edge is when you are balanced more over the top of skate blade (skate blade is more vertical to the ice hence less grip), the 4ks may have the holder mounted slightly to the outside of the center line and this gives you a feeling of more bite as you tend to pronate slightly into the edge when they are mounted like this. Add a different profile into the mix, or at least a new 10' in the 100k's, and there is now a lot of changes between the skates.

This holder mounting difference is really common, we did a test where I skated unlaced with a bunch of Jetspeeds and 1S skates and I could when tell the holder was mounted on a different center line, every skate was different but laced up I could hardly tell the difference). 1mm makes a hell of a lot of difference yet this is within accepted tolerances by the manufacturers.

So without ripping off the holders to get them remounted, I'd say it's more a case of you getting used to the slightly different position of the blade center under your feet and a new(ish) profile. A different suggestion from me is for you to go for a casual skate with your laces untied, this will really quickly attune your foot to the center line of the blade under your foot.

[Peter Pin 11]

1 hour ago, Vet88 said:

Given your past skill level, my bet is the holders. They will be mounted slightly differently from the center line than your 4ks, the feeling of no edge is when you are balanced more over the top of skate blade (skate blade is more vertical to the ice hence less grip), the 4ks may have the holder mounted slightly to the outside of the center line and this gives you a feeling of more bite as you tend to pronate slightly into the edge when they are mounted like this. Add a different profile into the mix, or at least a new 10' in the 100k's, and there is now a lot of changes between the skates.

This holder mounting difference is really common, we did a test where I skated unlaced with a bunch of Jetspeeds and 1S skates and I could when tell the holder was mounted on a different center line, every skate was different but laced up I could hardly tell the difference). 1mm makes a hell of a lot of difference yet this is within accepted tolerances by the manufacturers.

So without ripping off the holders to get them remounted, I'd say it's more a case of you getting used to the slightly different position of the blade center under your feet and a new(ish) profile. A different suggestion from me is for you to go for a casual skate with your laces untied, this will really quickly attune your foot to the center line of the blade under your foot.

Your bet about the holders makes sense. I can tell it feels I need to position my weight differently on the Ribcor to get grip. VS the 4K which seems more natural to grip ice. 

and as you say, with a different profile it probably makes it even worse. 
 

and the fact the blacksteel blades are really more thick (high) vs my old blades on the 4K probably dont help. 
 

well I think the plan is the following:

1- have the skates profiled with something that will be more grippy and agile. And short ROH

2-go often at casual/free skate session untied or loosely tied 

3- try to ‘’break’’ the skates asc much as possible during those session 

It’s just sucks to have that big process to like the skates. Maybe I should have pick the Bauer Vapors instead of the CCM..
 

[swede 53]

Going with vapors would have been even worse because of bauers ridiculous side stiffness. They are simply to stiff. 
your best bet is to have the CCM skates reprofiled to the same profile as your old RBK skates. 
 

if you are used to having softer skates and skate good on them, there is no benefit of going with stiffer skates.

[VegasHockey 1284]

On 9/14/2021 at 7:01 PM, Peter Pin said:

Your bet about the holders makes sense. I can tell it feels I need to position my weight differently on the Ribcor to get grip. VS the 4K which seems more natural to grip ice. 

and as you say, with a different profile it probably makes it even worse. 
 

and the fact the blacksteel blades are really more thick (high) vs my old blades on the 4K probably dont help. 
 

well I think the plan is the following:

1- have the skates profiled with something that will be more grippy and agile. And short ROH

2-go often at casual/free skate session untied or loosely tied 

3- try to ‘’break’’ the skates asc much as possible during those session 

It’s just sucks to have that big process to like the skates. Maybe I should have pick the Bauer Vapors instead of the CCM..
 

You would have been very unhappy with any of the new Vapors. You made the better choice with the 100K IMO. 

[Peter Pin 11]

12 hours ago, swede said:

Going with vapors would have been even worse because of bauers ridiculous side stiffness. They are simply to stiff. 
your best bet is to have the CCM skates reprofiled to the same profile as your old RBK skates. 
 

if you are used to having softer skates and skate good on them, there is no benefit of going with stiffer skates.

Well yesterday I left the Ribcor to a local sharpener. He compared with the old Reeboks and he said they are very different. He'll try to make the RIbcor similar which is approx 8-9' rocker. With 7/16 ROH. He doesn't do quad profile. Just single radius with blademaster system. Well he's probably not bad as he worked for the Quebec Nordiques in the 90s...

I'll try them next week.  We'll see after.

[Peter Pin 11]

Quick update.

Went to free skate session tonight with the Ribcor after a 9' rocker profile with 1/2 ROH. The guy that made the profile and sharpening looked like someone who knows his stuff. He's owned a small shop for about 15 years then sold it and retired. Currently doing sharpening and profiling at his home with all the required blademaster equipment.

So free skate session. It felt way better than before. Still room for improvement. But now: more grip when accelerating. Easier explosion from a dig. Turns are easier to engage and way more agility than before.

I can feel that the blades enter more deeply in ice. Blades make more noise than before so it doesn't lie.   And I like it. So it's just easier to find an edge and be confident turning and accelerating at high speed.

Glide is not as good as before and fatigue comes faster. Harder to keep cruising speed.  But I don't mind it. The pluses offset the minuses.

Did attached the stakes more loosely. in the end, I think I just need to trust the skates and stop thinking I'll slip or lose balance.

Can't wait to play my next game Friday. Balance and overall feeling is different with a hockey stick in hands and in game situation.

Obviously. Now I thinking about some quad profile for the future. But lets play 3-4 games with 9' all around and see how it goes.

 

 

old reebok

 

 

  Ribcor with 35/65 with stock radius

    with 9' radius

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Peter Pin

[Peter Pin 11]

 

On 9/14/2021 at 9:34 AM, marka said:

Howdy,

 

That certainly can/will affect things!

I agree that you should check and make sure that your edges are level, but past that I tend to agree that this sounds more like a profile or pitch issue to me.  Unfortunately, I think (particularly remotely) you're in for some trial/error getting it figured out but perhaps post some pictures here of your runners from the old skates overlaid with the new runners to highlight the differences?

As for baking... I would think that would impact comfort in the skates much more than actual performance on the ice.  That said... Yes you should be baking skates, IMHO.

Mark

pictures added