Heel-Toe vs Arch length (Brannock device) and finger test clarity

[duhfool 0]

After the long COVID break, I'm getting ready to start playing again.
In the meantime, my kid picked up inline skating this summer so I figured why not get a pair so I can join her and get my legs back in shape.

Well... looking into a pair on inline skates drew me into the rabbit hole of skate sizing.
As most of the skate sizing articles I saw were focused on hockey skates, I began to wonder if I've been wearing the wrong size.

I decided to post in the hockey skate forums since the main goal is to see if I do need to get a new pair of ice skates as well.

I finally read up on how to use the brannock device and based on it, I have a heal-toe length of 12/12.5 (depending on how you view it) and an arch length of 13.
The arch length is that doohickey on the inside that you align with the ball of your toe.

From what I had read, you should use the greater of the two, as the arch length gives you the proper length to take into account where the shoe breaks (bends) when you take a step forward for the back foot.
I bought a pair of regular shoes at 13 EE and it feels more comfortable than the 12 D's I've been using, so now I wonder if I've been wearing the wrong size for normal shoes most of my adult life.

So now I'm wondering...  which length do I base my skate size from?
I don't feel like the back foot bends like it does when walking, so is heel-toe better?
Though from everything I've read, it seems like there should be no problem for me to start with an 11.5 and then work down, depending on how tight the fit is.

I currently wear/have two old skates, both at 10.5  I believe both are standard width (can't find any markings to suggest otherwise, but they probably rubbed off by now)
Graf Supra G705 -> my mains
Bauer Flexlite 18

For both skates, with laces removed.

I cannot fit a pencil behind my heel.
My big toe touchs the front of the toe box (I didn't know what 'feathering the toe box' is supposed to mean).

When placing the pencil on top of the, it definitely touches my foot instead of balancing on top of the sides.

I did the Bauer 3D scan at PureHockey and was surprised at the results.
It came back as a Size 10 Fit 3.
I can understand FIt 3, but a half size smaller was surprising, given that my big toe already touches the toe box.

My main issue with my current skates have always been.
A. my toes feel like the toe box is too narrow.
B. my feet doesn't feel comfortable initially until probably after the warm-up period before the game (5-10 minutes)

*All measurements taken with my larger foot
*While I did gain weight during the COVID shut-down, I don't think it changed my shoe size, since I didn't notice any change with my normal shoes.

So my question is...
Should I go and try an 11.5 first then work down or 10.5 and work up?  Trying to avoid bias, really.
Is skate sizing much more advanced now, with various skates being offered specifically in different widths, that I could possible be in a size 10?

I play beer league, at the higher end of the novice division/lower end of the middle division.

Hoping to get that last bit of guidance.

I went to my local PureHockey store, but unfortunately, then didn't have any Fit 3 skates for me to try.
They also said that the skate I was looking  only went up to 10.5, which I found odd.

Is a Fit 3 an E or a EE width?
I wish the skate industry would just match the shoe industry terminology, to give a common base point.

Edited December 25, 2021 by duhfool
typos

[puckpilot 312]

First, don't use shoe size to determine skate size. Use a brannock made specifically for sizing skates. Your local hockey shop should have those. People wear different sized shoes for different reasons. For walk around shoes, I wear a half size or so up, because they're generally more comfortable. If I'm looking for shoes for sports, I want more form fitting. My shoe size is 2.5 to 3 sizes larger than my skate size. 

Second, once you have your foot measured out by a brannock made for skates, you have a start point. After that, it's about trying on skate after skate, comparing, contrasting, until you find one that's comfortable and formfitting. This is where you spend most of your time. Don't just put on the skate for a few seconds, you need to leave them on for a bit and get a feel for what the skate feels like after the liner has warmed up. Generally, you want to err on the side of a bit smaller vs a bit larger. You can always punch and stretch skates to finetune fit. You can't do the reverse and shrink skates. For big skates, things will only get worse as the liner wears and compresses, making the skates even more roomie

[althoma1 575]

You won't be the same skate size in all brands. As mentioned by @puckpilot, don't use shoe size to figure out your skate size. The Bauer scan and a skate specific brannock will give you a better starting point. That and skate that you already have.

Most people need to drop a half size from Graf to Bauer or CCM. So, if you're 10.5 Grafs fit well then scanning at 10 in Bauer makes complete sense.

A Bauer Fit 3 is comparable to a deeper Supreme EE or an old Nexus D.

Here's what I'd recommend trying on, at least to start:

Bauer Vapor and Sumpreme in a 10 Fit 3.

CCM Ribcor in 10 EE (if it's old stock) or 10 in their new wide fit.

CCM Tacks in 10 EE or 10 in their new wide fit. 

True TF9 and/or TF7 in 9.5W. The True retail skates fit at least a half size longer than Bauer or CCM in the same size and really open up after baking. They won't feel great before baking and the right size will feel way too small before baking. You have to completely undo the top two eyelets and twist your foot to even get it in. Then to do up the top two eyelets you need to thread them behind the tongue and then pull the lace over. Before baking your toes should be firm on the cap without being bent (more than feathering) - after baking and break in, this should be the right length. If you're toes aren't firm against the cap before baking, try a smaller size.

With any of the brands and models, I'd keep trying on smaller sizes until you're sure it's too small (toes are bent to fit in the skate) and then go up half a size.

Once you have the right length, you need to ensure that the depth and heel lock are good. You can use the pencil test for depth.  For heel lock, you can walk around in the skates and also try some lunges. You can't really judge the Trues without baking them, but if you buy those before Dec 31 at participating retailers, they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. CCM has a 90 day satisfaction guarantee. So, with either CCM or True you can bake, sharpen and use the skates and return them if they don't work well for you (within 30 days for True and 90 for CCM). Bauer doesn't have a guarantee like that. 

I think the True skates in W have the widest toe box, but still provide good heel lock and are average depth. The Bauer Fit 3 skates will be wider at the heel and deeper. I have no experience with the new CCM wide fit skates, but I know people who used to use Nexus skates have had success with CCM Ribcor skates in EE in the past. So True in 9.5W or a Ribcor in EE/W after baking would be my best guess for skates that would fit based on what you've said, but try on everything you can in various sizes. 

 

[duhfool 0]

I went to PureHockey in San Jose and not a Brannock device in site.
Salesman just went to the Bauer scanner, but maybe it's because I mentioned I used to have Bauers.

Unfortunately, they didn't have any Fit 3's in stock, but I'll be in SoCal, so hopefully their other stores will.

The  only other hockey store in the area went belly up, probably due to COVID, so not many places to try at the moment (not to mention it seems stock isn't that great at online places either).

[krisdrum 233]

20 minutes ago, duhfool said:

I'll be in SoCal, so hopefully their other stores will.

You can get an idea of inventory on their website by selecting the model and size and clicking the "find in store" button.  Then you can call the store directly to confirm they have the stock they are showing online.

Monkey Sports is another good retailer you might want to check out.  Not sure if IceWarehouse has a retail location, but they are based in CA as well. 

Sounds like you have a similar foot shape to me, just much larger (I have small feet).  My skates (depending on brand) are 2-2.5 sizes smaller than most of my street shoes.  I would try to find Fit 3 Bauers, Wide fit CCMs and the True retail models to try on.  I just tried the True TF7 (regular width, they don't make Wide in my size) a few weeks ago and really liked what I felt for the most part, but haven't pulled the trigger (I'm a bit concerned about heel lock).  I'm in older Grafs right now and tried getting the last generation of CCM Ribcors to work for me, but I think I need to cut my loses and return them.  They are really nice, but I'm feeling too many pressure points and my 90 days are almost up, so need to make a decision soon.

Edited December 16, 2021 by krisdrum

[duhfool 0]

Thank you for the suggestions.
I went and grabbed both my old pairs, fully unlaced.

I would say the initial thought when I slid my feet in are the toebox.
I feel that it's very tight at point where the ball of my big toe starts.

I wouldn't really call it pinching yet, but I definitely fail the depth test.

Hopefully one of the suggestions above pans out and it feels much better...
Though I'm still sticking to my new regular shoe size of 13 🙂

[krisdrum 233]

15 hours ago, duhfool said:

Thank you for the suggestions.
I went and grabbed both my old pairs, fully unlaced.

I would say the initial thought when I slid my feet in are the toebox.
I feel that it's very tight at point where the ball of my big toe starts.

I wouldn't really call it pinching yet, but I definitely fail the depth test.

Hopefully one of the suggestions above pans out and it feels much better...
Though I'm still sticking to my new regular shoe size of 13 🙂

This advice from @althoma1 is the best you'll get: With any of the brands and models, I'd keep trying on smaller sizes until you're sure it's too small (toes are bent to fit in the skate) and then go up half a size.

You want the tightest fitting skate you can manage while still being comfortable.  Good even pressure all over your foot is ideal.  I just recently realized I'd been wearing skates too big and getting something the right size makes a big difference, as you aren't fighting against the skate.

[duhfool 0]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:19 PM, althoma1 said:

You won't be the same skate size in all brands. As mentioned by @puckpilot, don't use shoe size to figure out your skate size. The Bauer scan and a skate specific brannock will give you a better starting point. That and skate that you already have.

A Bauer Fit 3 is comparable to a deeper Supreme EE or an old Nexus D.

Here's what I'd recommend trying on, at least to start:

Bauer Vapor and Sumpreme in a 10 Fit 3.

CCM Ribcor in 10 EE (if it's old stock) or 10 in their new wide fit.

CCM Tacks in 10 EE or 10 in their new wide fit. 

Once you have the right length, you need to ensure that the depth and heel lock are good. You can use the pencil test for depth.  For heel lock, you can walk around in the skates and also try some lunges. You can't really judge the Trues without baking them, but if you buy those before Dec 31 at participating retailers, they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. CCM has a 90 day satisfaction guarantee. So, with either CCM or True you can bake, sharpen and use the skates and return them if they don't work well for you (within 30 days for True and 90 for CCM). Bauer doesn't have a guarantee like that. 

I think the True skates in W have the widest toe box, but still provide good heel lock and are average depth. The Bauer Fit 3 skates will be wider at the heel and deeper. I have no experience with the new CCM wide fit skates, but I know people who used to use Nexus skates have had success with CCM Ribcor skates in EE in the past. So True in 9.5W or a Ribcor in EE/W after baking would be my best guess for skates that would fit based on what you've said, but try on everything you can in various sizes.

I picked up a pair of Ribcor 90K 10W.

Fails the pencil test by a bit (4th eyelet).
Would baking have any impact on the depth?

Do I return the CCM skates to CCM or to the dealer if I decide to give them a try?
I got them from IW.

Edited December 19, 2021 by duhfool

[althoma1 575]

2 minutes ago, duhfool said:

I picked up a pair of Ribcor 90K 10W.

Fails the pencil test by a bit (4th eyelet).
Would baking have any impact on the depth?

Do I return the CCM skates to CCM or to the dealer if I decide to give them a try?
I got them from IW.

You would return the skates to the dealer (IW) if they don't work out. That's the case with both CCM and True.

I don't think baking will really change the depth, but if you only fail by a tiny bit they may be OK. Since they're CCM skate you can bake them and use them as much as possible - if they're comfortable and performing well then keep them. If you end up getting soreness/lacebite near that 4th eyelet then return them to IW before the 90 days is up. IW offers free return shipping and CCM has the 90 day satisfaction guarantee; so, baking, sharpening and trying them is very low risk. 

[krisdrum 233]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:59 PM, althoma1 said:

You would return the skates to the dealer (IW) if they don't work out. That's the case with both CCM and True.

I don't think baking will really change the depth, but if you only fail by a tiny bit they may be OK. Since they're CCM skate you can bake them and use them as much as possible - if they're comfortable and performing well then keep them. If you end up getting soreness/lacebite near that 4th eyelet then return them to IW before the 90 days is up. IW offers free return shipping and CCM has the 90 day satisfaction guarantee; so, baking, sharpening and trying them is very low risk. 

Exactly.  This is the beauty of the CCM guarantee.  I am about to return some skates,unfortunately I just couldn't get them comfortable on my heel, despite so pretty aggressive punching of the boot to reduce pressure points. Wish I could ave gotten them to work for me, as they are really nice skates and I love the blade release mechanism on the new holders. 

[duhfool 0]

12 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Exactly.  This is the beauty of the CCM guarantee.  I am about to return some skates,unfortunately I just couldn't get them comfortable on my heel, despite so pretty aggressive punching of the boot to reduce pressure points. Wish I could ave gotten them to work for me, as they are really nice skates and I love the blade release mechanism on the new holders. 

This is the CCM Ribcore 90K 10 Wide.
I didn't realize I was leaned forward so much when I took the photo.  I already sealed the box up though.

My question however is.
If the depth of the boot is correct, should the white sides of the tongue not be visible when I lace the skate up?

I went to my LHS and I had a similar depth issue with the Bauer Vapor 3X Pro 10 FIT 3, only I would say it was a little deeper.
Salesperson said thee 10.5 should address the depth issue, but they didn't have the 10.5 FIT 3 in any model for me to try on.

I was just wondering if:
A. Their statement is true
B. If true, would it also apply to the CCM Ribcore?  They said CCM would always have less depth than the Bauer FIT 3.

I did try a TF9 boot D width.
It was already obvious the boot was too shallow by a lot and was told that the wide boot would not solve the depth issue.
So the True's are out of the running.

[puckpilot 312]

4 hours ago, duhfool said:

I went to my LHS and I had a similar depth issue with the Bauer Vapor 3X Pro 10 FIT 3, only I would say it was a little deeper.
Salesperson said thee 10.5 should address the depth issue, but they didn't have the 10.5 FIT 3 in any model for me to try on.

IMHO, going up in size in an attempt to address a depth issue is not a good idea. It's trading one issue for possibly another issue that's an even worse issue to deal with, skates that are too big for you. Often, skates that are too big will cause the wearer to crank down on the laces in an attempt to stabilize the foot in the boot, which will cause similar issues (lace bite) as one could get from skates without enough depth. 

From my experience, here's something to consider. I have extremely small feet for my size. 5'5 adult with size 4.5 skates. No retail skate on the market has the right depth for me. For me, the best thing other than customs was to get the skate that had the right dimensions for everything else except depth, and then figure out what to do about the depth. And over the years, I figured out how to prevent lace bite for myself. First up is I use Option B skate straps/eyelet extenders. This adds depth to the skate and distributes the presser more evenly across the foot. Second, I learned to skate with loose/looser laces. The latter, for me personally, is the universal solution that will carry across all skates I buy from now on. Also, it has had the added benefit of making me a better skater overall. It just took a little time, a little patience, and a little work. 

Don't know if this is the right thing for you, but it's just something to consider.

[althoma1 575]

Never go longer to try to deal with a depth or width issue. 

Also, you can't judge True skates without having the right size properly baked. So, I wouldn't rule the skates out based on trying on the wrong width unbaked. 

Since CCM has the 90 day guarantee and you already have the skates, I'd bake them, sharpen them and give them a try. I definitely wouldn't swap them out for a 10.5 in any brand if you know that 10 is the correct length. 

[duhfool 0]

45 minutes ago, althoma1 said:

Never go longer to try to deal with a depth or width issue. 

Also, you can't judge True skates without having the right size properly baked. So, I wouldn't rule the skates out based on trying on the wrong width unbaked. 

Since CCM has the 90 day guarantee and you already have the skates, I'd bake them, sharpen them and give them a try. I definitely wouldn't swap them out for a 10.5 in any brand if you know that 10 is the correct length. 

I noticed that on Bauer's online system, the difference between Pro and Performance fit levels is a half size.
Or is that just again a foundation and I should stick with looking for the snuggest fit, regardless of my own skating ability?

I understand the boot stiffness should take into account my skating ability, but the size should not?

Since I failed to actually ship the skates back, I'll lace them both up and see how it fits, regardless of the depth test.

7 hours ago, puckpilot said:

IMHO, going up in size in an attempt to address a depth issue is not a good idea. It's trading one issue for possibly another issue that's an even worse issue to deal with, skates that are too big for you. Often, skates that are too big will cause the wearer to crank down on the laces in an attempt to stabilize the foot in the boot, which will cause similar issues (lace bite) as one could get from skates without enough depth. 

From my experience, here's something to consider. I have extremely small feet for my size. 5'5 adult with size 4.5 skates. No retail skate on the market has the right depth for me. For me, the best thing other than customs was to get the skate that had the right dimensions for everything else except depth, and then figure out what to do about the depth. And over the years, I figured out how to prevent lace bite for myself. First up is I use Option B skate straps/eyelet extenders. This adds depth to the skate and distributes the presser more evenly across the foot. Second, I learned to skate with loose/looser laces. The latter, for me personally, is the universal solution that will carry across all skates I buy from now on. Also, it has had the added benefit of making me a better skater overall. It just took a little time, a little patience, and a little work. 

Don't know if this is the right thing for you, but it's just something to consider.

I saw those extenders a long time ago and just thought it was extra protection for shot blocking, since the person wearing it was a defenseman.

I'll give these options a try then.

[mojo122 538]

2 hours ago, duhfool said:

I noticed that on Bauer's online system, the difference between Pro and Performance fit levels is a half size.
Or is that just again a foundation and I should stick with looking for the snuggest fit, regardless of my own skating ability?

If you're looking for maximum performance I tell customers they want to go with the tightest fit that's comfortable for them.  I also see a lot of players who have been skating in skates way too big for sometime, so those often settle for comfort fit over pro fit.

[althoma1 575]

2 hours ago, duhfool said:

I noticed that on Bauer's online system, the difference between Pro and Performance fit levels is a half size.
Or is that just again a foundation and I should stick with looking for the snuggest fit, regardless of my own skating ability?

I understand the boot stiffness should take into account my skating ability, but the size should not?

Since I failed to actually ship the skates back, I'll lace them both up and see how it fits, regardless of the depth test.

For boot stiffness, there are two things that come into play - skating ability and size/weight. A lightweight player that's not an advanced skater would want a softer boot, but something where you can replace the steel is always ideal. An advanced skater usually likes a stiffer boot regardless of the weight. Heavier, 200lb plus players need a stiff skate for support even if they're not amazing skaters and would break down low end, soft skates in short order. They don't have to be top of the line skates, but you'll want to look at skates that are at least mid-range and stay away from low end skates.

For length, the ideal fit is for the skate to hug your foot snugly without any serious pressure points and for your toes just brush the cap when the skates are laced up and your heel is locked in place. The toes can just come off when you're knees are bent in an athletic skating position. Now, some people prefer an even tighter fit where the toes always touch - they more than feather when just standing and just feather when in an athletic stance. Others prefer that the toes don't touch the cap, I'm not one of those people. That can work, but you have to ensure you still have good heel lock (your heel doesn't move up and down) and your foot isn't sliding forward in the boot. If you have too much movement in the boot while you skate this can cause blisters and bone spurs. 

You definitely don't want the skates to fit like running shoes with a lot of room in the front. You'll also gain a few mm after baking and break in (the padding compresses); so, if you start with something that's already too long, the problem will only get worse over time. If the skates are slightly small before baking and break in, they may be perfect with time. You can also have skates punched or stretched if they're a bit small after break in, but you can never make a skate that's too big smaller. That's why I generally prefer to go with the smallest size that doesn't cause pain. 

[boo10 323]

2 hours ago, duhfool said:

I noticed that on Bauer's online system, the difference between Pro and Performance fit levels is a half size.
Or is that just again a foundation and I should stick with looking for the snuggest fit, regardless of my own skating ability?

On this board you're going to get people saying you must get the smallest skate that is comfortable.  That is generally very sound advice, but there is room for some personal preference, (which IMHO is half a size).  A half size is an increase in length of 4mm. Factor in the manufacturing tolerances, (which last I heard for CCM is 2mm) and a box of skates labelled as size 9 could really be 8.75 on one foot and 9.25 on the other.  (I know this to be true because a CCM product manager told me, if a pair is 1/4 size too small, try another of the same size as it could be 1/4 size longer due to manufacturing tolerances).  This is why it is so important to actually try skates on.  In the end, as long as your heel is properly locked in, the amount of space in front of your toes is preference.

[duhfool 0]

Finger test question.

So I've found just one site that has an image of how this is done, but the view is from the top, so I'm not clear on what exactly I'm supposed to be checking.

The site is: https://newtohockey.com/hockey-skate-fitting-guide/

It mentions
"Now reach back to the heel of the skate and see how much of a gap there is between your heel and the skate. If you can slide more than one finger between your heel and the skate (not the tendon and skate) then the skate is not locking your ankle / heel into place and the fit is not suitable for you."

From the photo, the fingers are knuckles towards the back of the skate, so I can't imagine how two fingers make a difference, since it would just be the thickness of the finger (distance between top of fingernail and your fingerpad (where the fingerprint is).

I also think that if any adult can slide a finger *much less two) between the heel and the back of the skate (area of Heel counter), then it would be obvious that it's too large.

Is there a better diagram that explains the finger test?
Am I checking gap where the green arrow is pointing or where the orange arrow is pointing?

I tried on a pair of Bauer Vapor 3X Pro 10.5 and it feels good after lacing it up.
No tightness around the ball joint.  Toe does not feather, but doesn't feel too loose either.
Definitely a little looser around the top part of the ankle than I'm used to, but then again, I feel like I'm comparing it against a boot that is definitely too small for me, so of course it would feel roomy.

It's definitely feeling better than the CCM Ribcor 90K 10 (unbaked).

I read that the Bauer Supreme has thicker padding, so if anyone who has tried the two, how loose did the Vapor feel compared to the Supreme?

I have yet to find a shop, local or online, that carriers the CCM Tacks in my size 🙁

Edited December 24, 2021 by duhfool
fixed image

[start_today 773]

The finger test as described seems very sloppy because you’d have to have the skate loose, and then try to move your foot forward. And, even if you can do all that and figure out how to fit your finger in without your hand getting in the way, a finger seems really big. I assume you’d want a  pencil circumference. If you can fit two fingers behind your heal, god help you. 

Better to just put the skate on and see if your toes touch the cap. Then lace up and see how it feels on your foot, and if you're getting any movement when you walk. 

[puckpilot 312]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:56 PM, duhfool said:

I tried on a pair of Bauer Vapor 3X Pro 10.5 and it feels good after lacing it up.
No tightness around the ball joint.  Toe does not feather, but doesn't feel too loose either.
Definitely a little looser around the top part of the ankle than I'm used to, but then again, I feel like I'm comparing it against a boot that is definitely too small for me, so of course it would feel roomy.

It's definitely feeling better than the CCM Ribcor 90K 10 (unbaked).

I read that the Bauer Supreme has thicker padding, so if anyone who has tried the two, how loose did the Vapor feel compared to the Supreme

How long did you have the skates on, and did you walk around in them, take a skating stance, and/or do skating like movements? IMHO, you have to get a feel for what they're like once the foams are warmed up and you're moving around. Because foams compress when warmed up, and they shape to your foot more, so a cold, snug skate can turn floppy after a few minutes of skating. And moving around will reveal possible pressure points and/or possible slippage.

IMHO, the thicker padding shouldn't matter in the long run, because as the skate ages, the foams will compress, making the skate around 1/4 size larger. When feeling out a skate, take into consideration what happens to the skate as it ages, not just how it feels right now.

 

[Vet88 674]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:56 AM, duhfool said:

Finger test question.

imho what you have found is a garbage test for length because so much of it is wrong. 1 finger, wtf....

If you want a manual test for length this is how - take a hb pencil with you, this is all you need. Pull the laces out of the skate (this is important, it stops the foot from binding on the sides of the skate and tongue), now pull the tongue right out and flop it forward. Put your foot into the boot and slide it forward until the toes just brush the toe cap. Bend slightly forward in the skate and with your pencil, see if you can slide it down the back of the heel between the heel and the boot (orange arrow). If you can slide it down then that skate is at least a 1/2 size to big for what is considered an optimal length fit - when you lace up the heel is pulled into the heel pocket by a couple of mm and this is how far your toes sit off the toe cap. Be it a brannock or a scanner or whatever other tool the shop may want to use, I have never had this process fail for length. Once you have your optimal length, some skaters like more room in the toe cap and will go up half a size, it's all down to personal preference from this point.

And for those volume issues you are having, these will fix them regardless of what skate you buy : https://www.greatsaves.org/product-page/skate-lace-eliminators

Or make your own so you can customise them to your skate, there are a number of threads here from skaters that have eg 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Vet88
added bit about extenders

[duhfool 0]

Thank you all for the suggestions on skates as well as the various test methods.
I did see the brannock device for the skates (multiple brands) and the arch length measurement was not there at all, confirming my suspicion that for skates, it's purely heel-toe as the basis, since there isn't any flex at the ball joint when skating.  We aren't running after all.

I tried the Vapor 3X Pro (both in 10 and 10.5) and the Hyperlite in 10.  Both in FIT 3.
For the Vapors, I stood/walked around the store with them on for about 30 minutes.
The Ultrasonic, I did the same at home.
I ultimately decided to keep the Bauer Ultrasonics.  10 FIT 3
Overall, the Ultrasonic fit the best without baking and I figure if I start at the point of the least discomfort, baking/breaking it in will only have fit go better.

I was unable to find a CCM or a True in the right width, so was unable to give them a chance.
Luckily, Pure has an unlimited return window as long as the skate is unused (unbaked and unsharpened).

I noticed Bauer is about to come out with the 2022 line-up, so I might see how that unfolds in the next couple of months, since if the new skates really have less bling colouring, I'll take it.
I'm already dropping $1k on a pair of skates, so I think it's justified to try and get the latest model instead of 'last years' 😄

[althoma1 575]

5 hours ago, duhfool said:

I noticed Bauer is about to come out with the 2022 line-up, so I might see how that unfolds in the next couple of months, since if the new skates really have less bling colouring, I'll take it.
I'm already dropping $1k on a pair of skates, so I think it's justified to try and get the latest model instead of 'last years' 😄

You may be waiting a while if you wait for the new Bauer skates to drop. Last year the Hyperlite skates weren't released until June 25th. I know in the past skates used to launch around late April, but the last several years that's been pushed back to June or even July. 

[Vet88 674]

8 hours ago, duhfool said:

Overall, the Ultrasonic fit the best without baking and I figure if I start at the point of the least discomfort, baking/breaking it in will only have fit go better.
Luckily, Pure has an unlimited return window as long as the skate is unused (unbaked and unsharpened).

This I disagree with. It has the least discomfort because it fits the biggest overall around the foot. This doesn't mean it fits well, in fact it often means it fits very poorly (too big) in a lot of areas but people think that's good when it isn't. Then when you start to use it and the foams begin to compress and your foot starts slopping around in it and you wonder why you brought it....

Personally I start with the laces taken out, if you can fit your foot into the boot like this then everything else can be worked on. You jam your heel into the tightest fitting heel pocket you can find, you can't make a boot smaller but you can widen it, punch it and have the foams settle to give you more room. Try this, take the laces out, pull the tongue out, put the boot on, lift your foot into the air (relax the toes) and shake it about. If it feels like the boot is going to slip off your foot then it is too big. Again, a boot doesn't get smaller but I guarantee it will get bigger over time.