low-kick vs mid-kick sticks

[SolarWind 23]

I'd really appreciate if someone could help me solve this "mystery": 

On ice I've always used mid-kick sticks since to me they were easier to load and produced decent shots. I've given low-kick sticks many tries before, but never could figure out how to get good velocity out of them - on ice.

Recently I came across a dirt cheap near new APX stick in 77 flex, so I got it for off-ice goofing around and shooting.
After cutting it down ~ 2" from my usual length (to account for skate height) it's ~ 85 flex.

Off ice it quickly became my favorite sticks - shots are quick and velocity is great. So I took it on ice and in my hands it sucked the same way all low-kick sticks sucked before.

Of course it's easier to load sticks off ice due to more friction + more stable surface to shoot from, but damn the difference is night and day?!!

What could I do to even it out since I would like to make the low-kick perform on-ice the same way it performs off-ice. Is it just my shooting technique? I do shoot with hands in front and weight transfer, and I'm 5'11", 190 lbs so 77 flex sticks even cut down don't feel stiff. Thoughts?!

Edited February 18, 2022 by SolarWind

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

TBH, from what you describe, it sounds like a technique issue.  You probably have a more solid base off-ice when shooting than you do on ice, and that could make a world of difference.  Also, could be length of stick is longer off ice than on ice (skates) or maybe even equipment interfering with the kinetic chain when shooting.  Have you experimented off-ice with full gear and on skates (roller or ice)?  Maybe videos of off-ice and on ice shooting could help?

 

[puckpilot 312]

It could be a lot of things. It could be a little from column A and a little from column B. If you're able, I'd recommend using your phone to take some video of yourself shooting on and off ice. Sometimes what you think you're doing isn't what you're doing if you know what I mean.

Also.regardless of how it feels it could be that the flex is too stiff for you. Feel can trick you sometimes, because you get used to a certain feel and think it's working for you even when it isn't. It doesn't matter what your height or weight is. It's simply about if you have the strength and technique to flex the stick properly and the hands to make it do what you want it to do. The proof is in the pudding. For reference, Matthews is 6'3 223lbs and uses an 80 flex. Ovi is 6'3 235lb and uses an 85 flex. I've read Ovi has used even lower flexes in the past. I'd wager you're not as strong as either of them and you're using a flex in the range of what they're using. 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by puckpilot

[VegasHockey 1280]

23 hours ago, SolarWind said:

I'd really appreciate if someone could help me solve this "mystery": 

On ice I've always used mid-kick sticks since to me they were easier to load and produced decent shots. I've given low-kick sticks many tries before, but never could figure out how to get good velocity out of them - on ice.

Recently I came across a dirt cheap near new APX stick in 77 flex, so I got it for off-ice goofing around and shooting.
After cutting it down ~ 2" from my usual length (to account for skate height) it's ~ 85 flex.

Off ice it quickly became my favorite sticks - shots are quick and velocity is great. So I took it on ice and in my hands it sucked the same way all low-kick sticks sucked before.

Of course it's easier to load sticks off ice due to more friction + more stable surface to shoot from, but damn the difference is night and day?!!

What could I do to even it out since I would like to make the low-kick perform on-ice the same way it performs off-ice. Is it just my shooting technique? I do shoot with hands in front and weight transfer, and I'm 5'11", 190 lbs so 77 flex sticks even cut down don't feel stiff. Thoughts?!

I am 5'11" and 190lbs and use a 65/70 flex and it feels plenty stiff if your technique is proper. Without seeing you shooting on ice its impossible to determine what the issue is. Flex, lie, blade type, stance, hand position, weight transfer, etc. We are all just randomly guessing. 

[stick9 890]

Its no mystery, it's all technique. The list of differences between shooting on dry land opposed to ice is long. 

In other words, it's not the stick... 

[SolarWind 23]

8 hours ago, stick9 said:

Its no mystery, it's all technique. The list of differences between shooting on dry land opposed to ice is long. 

In other words, it's not the stick... 

I’m sure my technique could use refinement, so any tips on how to increase the convergence rate between dry land and on-ice shooting would be appreciated.

Kick point does have some correlation to MY technique since with all other things being equal (length, flex, curve) the mid-kick loads up much better on-ice than low-kick. 

I’ll try to take videos and compare but was just hoping someone could point a few things that might contribute to the loading issue…

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by SolarWind

[stick9 890]

1 hour ago, SolarWind said:

I’m sure my technique could use refinement, so any tips on how to increase the convergence rate between dry land and on-ice shooting would be appreciated.

Kick point does have some correlation to MY technique since with all other things being equal (length, flex, curve) the mid-kick loads up much better on-ice than low-kick. 

I’ll try to take videos and compare but was just hoping someone could point a few things that might contribute to the loading issue…

I don't think dry land will ever feel like ice. The change in surface, ice vs land, along with skates vs shoes changes your form and alters your center of balance. One thing I'd do is cut your off ice stick so it's matches your ice stick when wearing skates.

[SolarWind 23]

39 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I don't think dry land will ever feel like ice. The change in surface, ice vs land, along with skates vs shoes changes your form and alters your center of balance. One thing I'd do is cut your off ice stick so it's matches your ice stick when wearing skates.

My dry-land stick is 2” shorter 

I’m going to try shooting in skates off-ice, see if it mimics it better 

[puckpilot 312]

4 hours ago, SolarWind said:

My dry-land stick is 2” shorter 

I’m going to try shooting in skates off-ice, see if it mimics it better 

From my experience, I haven't been able to figure out a way to mimic the ice for shooting. I've tried all the regular stuff that gets recommended, but the simple fact is the extra friction is always going to make it easier to load the stick. Now that doesn't mean shooting off-ice is useless. IMHO, If you're doing the reps and executing technique properly then it should translate as long as you're getting reps on the ice too.

For me personally, for a long while I struggled with my shot. And I've found while experimented that whenever something isn't working, it narrows down to two things flex and technique. After the covid pause, I was having a lot of issues with my shot, and after working on my technique, switching out kickpoints and curves, I realized it was because I'd recently lost a significant amount of weight and along with that weight a bit of muscle. So I went down in flex and suddenly all the issues went away.

[All Flash 49]

At first glance to OP post , it sounds like stick height off ice and flex on ice.

I exclusively use low kick , about 90-95 flex after setting up stick from retail spec. 

Whenever i try mid kick with the same set up, everything seems to take longer and i overbend , or overload , however you perceive it, with passing and shooting on ice. 

Side note.... think if i tried mid kick again i would go with a stiffer flex.

But take this  with a grain of salt as i use bladetape/ rezztek type blade covering so my blade bottom is exposed and slides freely on the ice. 

Also , i do not do alot off ice shooting  but i would think i need to shorten my stick and possibly change the flex hence the starting comment.

Good luck figuring it out.

[x-axis 44]

Using a small raised shooting platform to account for the change with skates or buying a small set of tiles that work with skates seems like a better option to me personally. So many variables that feel different with a shortened stick and different flex. You are eliminating the complicated variables by using a platform or tiles. That's of course if you have the money to burn. It should be fairly close to the amount you'd spend on a top end stick. 

[ProfessorBarDownski 11]

So you have a sweet spot off ice that you can’t find on ice ? Pop an extension for on ice make sure it reaches exact spot on your face ok skates as it does when ur in ur shoes. Muscle memory is a huge part of it.