Skate profiling recommendation for amateur player

[vp1304 3]

Hi guys, I am skating all my life, but started ice hockey like 7 years ago to have fun with friends at the local rink and play some beer league matches.  I am 5' 10" 150 lbs 42 years. At the beginning I did not pay attention to my equipment at all but over the time I realized it matters and makes a quite significant difference on the ice, especially when it comes to skates. This season, I finally got myself a proper skates size, I got Supreme M5 Pro in 5.5 size FIT 2. My last skates were Vapor X600 6.5 EE. That means I went down from 263 mm  to 246 mm steel. First skating was a disaster, I felt completely unbalanced, missed some steel under my toes with falling over tendency. Now it's been like 5 games and I was able to adjust but still I would like to get more stability and also I miss the top speed and glide I used to have with 263 mm steel. On the other hand mobility and acceleration with 246 mm is great which i like a lot.

So I was wondering if the skate profiling could be a solution for me. Improving stability and glide (top speed) while keeping agility and acceleration of 246 mm steel.

I red all threads about profiling but still not 100% sure where to start with. I learned the most popular ProSharp profiles are probably  Quad profiles. Recommended quad profile for my skate size is XS but I understood some guys go for Quad 0 or even 1 to get more stability due to the aggressive toe radius. With the Ellipse profile it the opposite, going lower than recommended to get a similar feeling to Quad. I also understood I should drop ROH, currenlty I am on 5/8 so I would go to 11/16 and eventually try 3/4 later.

 Many thanks in advance for your opinion.

[noupf 42]

I am not an expert by any means, but some will chime in who are much more knowledgeable.  For Me, i started playing hockey at the age of 20 or so and have been nothing more than a men's league hockey player.  I put the ellipse 1 on my skates ( 288 mm steel ) about a year and a half ago and I swear its the best equipment upgrade I've ever done.  I'm 44 year old right now ( still in good shape and still skate hard ) and wish i knew about this stuff years ago.  I'm more stable, faster and more agile when i need to be.  I believe some would say that the ellipse profiles are a great starting point for more of the amateur or less skilled skaters, where you would then move to a quad profile, depending on your feel / or perceived need for something a little more aggressive ( mainly in the front half of your steel ).  I almost feel that I could use something like a quad to get me a little more agility and acceleration, but besides that, i am very happy with the ellipse 1.  I may pick up a second set of steel an put a quad profile on there for my size runner and see if I like the difference  but again, starting with the ellipse 1, I am very happy.

 

Also, as for  ROH, ( again, not knowing much about how sharp/deep you really need them over the years  ), I used to be on 1/2 then i had the profiled blades sharpened at 5/8 just for a starting point, I found them too sharp almost instantly, so i am now on 3/4 and love it.  I am also 6'4 230 lbs, so I could probably go even one step lower ROH and be fine.

Edited September 12, 2022 by noupf

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

Depending upon what’s available in your area, or where you’ll be sending them, you could start with a cag one profile. It will simply add a flat area for stability as you adjust. Something like a 25/40 might give you stability as well as feeling more like your larger blades. 
I’ve personally felt Quads and the like are too involved for your average adult skater, but perhaps a 7-10 or 9.5-10.5 would suit you well. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Buzz_LightBeer

[vp1304 3]

4 hours ago, noupf said:

I am not an expert by any means, but some will chime in who are much more knowledgeable.  For Me, i started playing hockey at the age of 20 or so and have been nothing more than a men's league hockey player.  I put the ellipse 1 on my skates ( 288 mm steel ) about a year and a half ago and I swear its the best equipment upgrade I've ever done.  I'm 44 year old right now ( still in good shape and still skate hard ) and wish i knew about this stuff years ago.  I'm more stable, faster and more agile when i need to be.  I believe some would say that the ellipse profiles are a great starting point for more of the amateur or less skilled skaters, where you would then move to a quad profile, depending on your feel / or perceived need for something a little more aggressive ( mainly in the front half of your steel ).  I almost feel that I could use something like a quad to get me a little more agility and acceleration, but besides that, i am very happy with the ellipse 1.  I may pick up a second set of steel an put a quad profile on there for my size runner and see if I like the difference  but again, starting with the ellipse 1, I am very happy.

 

Also, as for  ROH, ( again, not knowing much about how sharp/deep you really need them over the years  ), I used to be on 1/2 then i had the profiled blades sharpened at 5/8 just for a starting point, I found them too sharp almost instantly, so i am now on 3/4 and love it.  I am also 6'4 230 lbs, so I could probably go even one step lower ROH and be fine.

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. What was the profile you skated on before ? Stock profile also ?

 Actually, I was thinking of to give a try to both, ellipse and quad (don't know the size yet) as I am planning to purchase an extra pair of steel anyways and first profiling + sharpening is free of charge. I am prepared to test out 3-4 different profiles max to see the difference for myself and pick the one which I am the most comfortable with. I think makes no sense to go more into the detail for the level I play.  It's funny that not a long time ago I had no clue about what radius of hollow is, using skates in the same size as sneakers and now I am considering profiling  🙂  So I am really excited to see what's gonna be the outcome and how it'll affect my skating.

[vp1304 3]

1 hour ago, Buzz_LightBeer said:

Depending upon what’s available in your area, or where you’ll be sending them, you could start with a cag one profile. It will simply add a flat area for stability as you adjust. Something like a 25/40 might give you stability as well as feeling more like your larger blades. 
I’ve personally felt Quads and the like are too involved for your average adult skater, but perhaps a 7-10 or 9.5-10.5 would suit you well. 

In my area I can use ProSharp only

[noupf 42]

17 minutes ago, vp1304 said:

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. What was the profile you skated on before ? Stock profile also ?

 Actually, I was thinking of to give a try to both, ellipse and quad (don't know the size yet) as I am planning to purchase an extra pair of steel anyways and first profiling + sharpening is free of charge. I am prepared to test out 3-4 different profiles max to see the difference for myself and pick the one which I am the most comfortable with. I think makes no sense to go more into the detail for the level I play.  It's funny that not a long time ago I had no clue about what radius of hollow is, using skates in the same size as sneakers and now I am considering profiling  🙂  So I am really excited to see what's gonna be the outcome and how it'll affect my skating.

Yes, i had the same steel on my skates for the last 8 years, so whatever single radius "banana" profile that was on there from all the manual sharpening's I've had done over that time frame.  For me, I simply went with the profile that was recommended for my steel size, based on the prosharp chart they publish.  To me, the ellipse made more sense as it was a single continuous radius vs. the quad that the 4 zones blended together.  Plus i came to find out that the ellipse was a little longer in the back and less of a quick change to the shorter radius in the front, hence why some say its a little easier to transition to for average or below average skaters.

Edited September 12, 2022 by noupf

[puckpilot 312]

Honestly, before you get into multi-radi profiles, you might just want to try simply going to a larger single radius and see what that does for you first. The mulitradius profiles tend to have smaller radius' on the toe, that's less steel up front, which you were saying you were missing. 

A single radius profile, like say a 12' or even 13', will give you more glide, more stability and more steel up towards the front of skate. I say this because the last time I got new skates I went from a size 5 to a size 4.5, and a lot of what you're feeling, I felt too. Some of it was just me and the flaws in my skating. Some of it was the change in skate. I went from the stock 10' radius to a 12' and then to a 13'. If it was available to me, I would have gone to a 15', but instead I went to a duo 13/26 profile because that was the only thing even close to where I wanted to go with my tweaking. Along the way I put a negative pitch on to things to help stop myself from getting up onto my toes too much and i went from a 5/8 hollow to a 1" hollow. Doing it this way I found made it easier to identify which direction to go with my tweaks because I was only changing one variable at a time instead of a bunch like in a quad profile.

Now, there's no free lunch. To gain something, you have to give up a little of something else. Doing this I lost a bit of agility and acceleration, but over time, I got most of it back. It just took some patience and work.

Edited September 14, 2022 by puckpilot

[VegasHockey 1280]

8 hours ago, puckpilot said:

Honestly, before you get into multi-radi profiles, you might just want to try simply going to a larger single radius and see what that does for you first. The mulitradius profiles tend to have smaller radius' on the toe, that's less steel up front, which you were saying you were missing. 

A single radius profile, like say a 12' or even 13', will give you more glide, more stability and more steel up towards the front of skate. I say this because the last time I got new skates I went from a size 5 to a size 4.5, and a lot of what you're feeling, I felt too. Some of it was just me and the flaws in my skating. Some of it was the change in skate. I went from the stock 10' radius to a 12' and then to a 13'. If it was available to me, I would have gone to a 15', but instead I went to a duo 13/26 profile because that was the only thing even close to where I wanted to go with my tweaking. Along the way I put a negative pitch on to things to help stop myself from getting up onto my toes too much and i went from a 5/8 hollow to a 1" hollow. Doing it this way I found made it easier to identify which direction to go with my tweaks because I was only changing one variable at a time instead of a bunch like in a quad profile.

Now, there's no free lunch. To gain something, you have to give up a little of something else. Doing this I lost a bit of agility and acceleration, but over time, I got most of it back. It just took some patience and work.

I really like a single 12' or 13' on Flare.

[caveman27 208]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:10 PM, noupf said:

Yes, i had the same steel on my skates for the last 8 years, so whatever single radius "banana" profile that was on there from all the manual sharpening's I've had done over that time frame.  For me, I simply went with the profile that was recommended for my steel size, based on the prosharp chart they publish.  To me, the ellipse made more sense as it was a single continuous radius vs. the quad that the 4 zones blended together.  Plus i came to find out that the ellipse was a little longer in the back and less of a quick change to the shorter radius in the front, hence why some say its a little easier to transition to for average or below average skaters.

Not sure what your skating is like after 7 years. 

What position do you usually play?

Are you skating east-west (a lot of direction changes within a zone) or north-south (straight line between zones) more often?  Zones being offensive, neutral and defensive.

[noupf 42]

18 hours ago, caveman27 said:

Not sure what your skating is like after 7 years. 

What position do you usually play?

Are you skating east-west (a lot of direction changes within a zone) or north-south (straight line between zones) more often?  Zones being offensive, neutral and defensive.

1) Being on the same steel for 7 years i was comfortable in my head with what I had, but by no means did i feel as good as I do now.  I'm just a 44 year old, good ( not great ) skating men's league player and I am noticeably more agile and stable on my skates in almost every situation.

2)  I play D about 75% of the time now, but I am an active D man who like to make the quick move in the corner to shake a forechecker and take that next stride or two to break out or make the outlet play.  I'm 6'4 230 lbs, so I am by no means a quick little agile D man.

3)  Mostly a north south skater when I play D or O, but I've been incorporating some more east west over the last year or two.  I've always used my size, length, reach and stride to create my opportunities or make a play, but again, i just feel more mobile and stable in most situations regardless of what I am doing now.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by noupf

[vp1304 3]

I guess I am adjusting to 246 mm steel and new skates. Last night, it's the first time I felt great on the ice, I didn't notice any stability problems and purely enjoyed the game mainly due to mobility and quick starts that helped me to beat the opponets. So I will definitely not return to 263 mm. Now I understand it was a way too much steel for my rather skinny legs. 

Well, what I did differently in the last game was that for the first time in my life I dropped the last eylet. Man, that gave me a ton of forward flex yet with enough ankle support !  Could that be the reason everything felt great in that game ? Before that I was experimenting dropping the second last eylet but did not like it that much, flex improved, but felt I have to retighten the skates every second shift. My old method was to keep the top eylets a bit more loose.

Probably next week I am going to get an extra pair of steel so I think I am going to start with Ellipse XS with 11/16 ROH (I am on 5/8 now). Is there a more detailed Pro Sharp chart  showing steel length options for different profiles along with recommended ROH ?

[noupf 42]

9 hours ago, vp1304 said:

I guess I am adjusting to 246 mm steel and new skates. Last night, it's the first time I felt great on the ice, I didn't notice any stability problems and purely enjoyed the game mainly due to mobility and quick starts that helped me to beat the opponets. So I will definitely not return to 263 mm. Now I understand it was a way too much steel for my rather skinny legs. 

Well, what I did differently in the last game was that for the first time in my life I dropped the last eylet. Man, that gave me a ton of forward flex yet with enough ankle support !  Could that be the reason everything felt great in that game ? Before that I was experimenting dropping the second last eylet but did not like it that much, flex improved, but felt I have to retighten the skates every second shift. My old method was to keep the top eylets a bit more loose.

Probably next week I am going to get an extra pair of steel so I think I am going to start with Ellipse XS with 11/16 ROH (I am on 5/8 now). Is there a more detailed Pro Sharp chart  showing steel length options for different profiles along with recommended ROH ?

ROH is really more dependent on the weight of the skater if I am not mistaken.  Heavier you are, the less deep the hollow needs to be, bc your weight helps dig the edges into the ice more.  The less heavy, the deeper the hollow needs to be, bc you don't have as much weight digging the edges into the ice.  I am 230 lbs and I am on 3/4.  I like it, but I bet I could easily go one step lower ( 7/8 ) and still feel confident on my edges.

When I first got my new step steel blades profiled, i also installed brand new replacement holder on my skates.  So i asked the pro shop guy who I mailed them to, what ROH should I use.  His comment back was, "you are now getting brand new steel thats 3-4 mm higher than what you were used to.  You now have brand new holders on your skates and you now have profiled blades as well.  Those are 3 new things to get used to, keep your ROH the same for now ( 5/8 ) and get used to the new set up, after that, start bumping down one step at a time as you get comfortable."

I feel like you are in the same boat as me with the new skates, shorter steel and now possibly profiled blades.  Don't go changing too many things at once.  Maybe just stay with the 5/8 on the new profiled blades, get used for a month or two so and then change the ROH, go down to the 11/16, then maybe down to 3/4.  

Edited September 15, 2022 by noupf

[caveman27 208]

9 hours ago, vp1304 said:

I guess I am adjusting to 246 mm steel and new skates. Last night, it's the first time I felt great on the ice, I didn't notice any stability problems and purely enjoyed the game mainly due to mobility and quick starts that helped me to beat the opponets. So I will definitely not return to 263 mm. Now I understand it was a way too much steel for my rather skinny legs. 

Well, what I did differently in the last game was that for the first time in my life I dropped the last eylet. Man, that gave me a ton of forward flex yet with enough ankle support !  Could that be the reason everything felt great in that game ? Before that I was experimenting dropping the second last eylet but did not like it that much, flex improved, but felt I have to retighten the skates every second shift. My old method was to keep the top eylets a bit more loose.

Probably next week I am going to get an extra pair of steel so I think I am going to start with Ellipse XS with 11/16 ROH (I am on 5/8 now). Is there a more detailed Pro Sharp chart  showing steel length options for different profiles along with recommended ROH ?

I couldn't find a chart. ROH can vary between skaters so what's optimal for someone else might not be optimal for you.

 

 

[psulion22 402]

12 hours ago, vp1304 said:

I guess I am adjusting to 246 mm steel and new skates. Last night, it's the first time I felt great on the ice, I didn't notice any stability problems and purely enjoyed the game mainly due to mobility and quick starts that helped me to beat the opponets. So I will definitely not return to 263 mm. Now I understand it was a way too much steel for my rather skinny legs. 

Well, what I did differently in the last game was that for the first time in my life I dropped the last eylet. Man, that gave me a ton of forward flex yet with enough ankle support !  Could that be the reason everything felt great in that game ? Before that I was experimenting dropping the second last eylet but did not like it that much, flex improved, but felt I have to retighten the skates every second shift. My old method was to keep the top eylets a bit more loose.

Probably next week I am going to get an extra pair of steel so I think I am going to start with Ellipse XS with 11/16 ROH (I am on 5/8 now). Is there a more detailed Pro Sharp chart  showing steel length options for different profiles along with recommended ROH ?

Do not make too many changes at once.  Get the Ellipse XS with a 5/8 and see how that feels compared to what you had in your last skate.  I'd probably have that put on your current steel before buying new as well, or buy a cheap used set on Sideline Swap or Ebay just to test with.  Even now, you made two pretty big changes - steel size and not lacing the top eyelet (not to mention much stiffer skates in a correct size with a different flex and wrap profile and pitch to your last) - and you can't really pinpoint which of them made the improvement in your game.  It's possible all the increased agility was due to the better forward flex, and you'd be fine by just having the holders on the skates changed back to your 263s. I would suggest not adding a third variable by changing the profile (and then a fourth by changing the hollow), before you get a clear idea what the first two variables did.  Go back and try skating on the 246 with the old way of lacing a few times to see if it was the flexion or just getting used to the steel that made the difference.  Then make the next change you think will help based on the information you gather - be it a different profile or a shallower hollow.  Do not rush this, there's no reason to.  I know you want to see even more improvements right away, but doing things without fully testing what you have and giving time to adjust may cause bad decisions and you could end up with something that isn't the best for you.

I just went through this.  I am going to need new steel soon, so I sent all my old steel to be profiled differently - Quad 2, Ellipse 1, and Quad 1.  I had been skating on the Quad 2 for a while and was pretty happy, but the steel is pretty worn down so I switched to old runners that had a Quad 1 on them and more steel.  I found a huge increase in agility that I liked a lot, but after a few games I found I had lost accelleration and top speed.  Players were skating with me or catching me from behind when they weren't before.  Putting the Quad 2 steel back on was awful and I lost pretty much all agility and was even tripping over my toes.  So I went on a search to find the best profile to give me what I want.  Putting the Ellipse 1 on was like an epiphany.  It was completely natural to me.  If I would have made a decision right then, it would 100% be the Ellipse 1.  But then after a few skates, i noticed that I was still not getting the speed I wanted.  So to be true to the process, I put back on the Quad 2 and gave myself the time to test it adequately.  The first skate was rough, I felt like it was long and I was off balance.  I had to go and put the Ellipse back on mid-skate.  But I stuck with the Quad 2 and it turns out it's better for me.  I'm faster and more efficient, and I don't feel less agile anymore.  It turns out the profile wasn't done correctly before - the toe wasn't blended enough plus it had the full 20mm of pitch.  That's why I kept tripping over my toes and had lost all the agility.  But when I had them done this time, it was much better (and it's still a little longer than normal because there wasn't enough steel in the toe to blend).  I think on new Flare steel and the complete toe blending it will be what I was looking for.   If I hadn't stuck to the program, I would have made a bad decision and ended up with a profile that felt good but didn't really fix the issues.

[puckpilot 312]

15 hours ago, noupf said:

ROH is really more dependent on the weight of the skater if I am not mistaken.  Heavier you are, the less deep the hollow needs to be, bc your weight helps dig the edges into the ice more.  The less heavy, the deeper the hollow needs to be, bc you don't have as much weight digging the edges into the ice.

It, like anything else, is unique to the skater and what they like and want a achieve. From my experience weight has little to do with it. I'm 160lbs. I use a 1" hollow. If the shops in my area offered it, I'd go even shallower. I know guys who are above 200lbs and they like 3/5".

[caveman27 208]

10 hours ago, puckpilot said:

It, like anything else, is unique to the skater and what they like and want a achieve. From my experience weight has little to do with it. I'm 160lbs. I use a 1" hollow. If the shops in my area offered it, I'd go even shallower. I know guys who are above 200lbs and they like 3/5".

What's your profile radius? 

[puckpilot 312]

3 hours ago, caveman27 said:

What's your profile radius? 

13/26, but I also use a 13 on occasion, all 1"

[218hockey 50]

23 hours ago, puckpilot said:

13/26, but I also use a 13 on occasion

Are you a goalie?

[puckpilot 312]

57 minutes ago, 218hockey said:

Are you a goalie?

Nope. 

[hockeydad3 51]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:28 AM, vp1304 said:

I got Supreme M5 Pro in 5.5 size FIT 2

Dropping down skate size will move the pivot point towards your heel, the new skate will be stiffer and your steel will be higher. That´s a lot to adapt to, give it some time. What's the profile on your runners? Sometimes your skates are shipped with different runners, some could have the Bauer Power Profile, which is the Quad Zero XS for your runner legth. Others have a 10' single radius profile. If your´re on a 10' profile a Quad XS will give you a little more agility, glide and stability. Prosharps recommendation for your runner size with a multi profile is 3/4" ROH, if you are coming from  a deeper hollow I´d suggest to try a 11/16" ROH.

[vp1304 3]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:11 AM, hockeydad3 said:

Dropping down skate size will move the pivot point towards your heel, the new skate will be stiffer and your steel will be higher. That´s a lot to adapt to, give it some time. What's the profile on your runners? Sometimes your skates are shipped with different runners, some could have the Bauer Power Profile, which is the Quad Zero XS for your runner legth. Others have a 10' single radius profile. If your´re on a 10' profile a Quad XS will give you a little more agility, glide and stability. Prosharps recommendation for your runner size with a multi profile is 3/4" ROH, if you are coming from  a deeper hollow I´d suggest to try a 11/16" ROH.

I've never heard that new M5 Pro's are supplied with something else than 10" single radius. I am pretty sure it's a single radius (10" acc the spec). I could be wrong but there would have to be "Power profile" written on the steel like it was in previous generation (3S Pro) ?

[vp1304 3]

UPDATE: my first impression of the Ellipse XS

As planned I purchased a new pair of 246 mm STEP BLACK and got them profiled to the Ellipse XS.  I was off the ice for the last two weeks (I was sick) but could not wait any longer and tried them out last night in a fun game.

I only had like 7 minutes of warm-up so I was a bit worried about that I am going it experience some bad things, but actually I was very surprised how easy it was to adopt.

Coming from 10" radius, I could skate pretty much instantly without any bad or strange feelings. I felt that I have more steel down there, gliding seemed to be easier. The agility I could not really tell if it was better or worse. Also, I think I could go shallower ROH, it felt like plenty of grip (could it be that BLACK steel feels sharper ?). I have the same ROH like on the stock profile (5/8"). I think I will go one step shallower next sharpening.

On the weekend, I'm gonna go with my kids to the public skate so I am planning to test the profiles further to see the differences in more details. 

 

[hockeydad3 51]

2 hours ago, vp1304 said:

I've never heard that new M5 Pro's are supplied with something else than 10" single radius. I am pretty sure it's a single radius (10" acc the spec). I could be wrong but there would have to be "Power profile" written on the steel like it was in previous generation (3S Pro) ?

https://hockey.hps-sport-shop.de/en/bauer-supreme-m5-pro-skate-intermediate/a-27778

The information is under description, saying that the Pulse SS runner should have the Bauer Power Profile. It is the same information in almost all german onlineshops.

[vp1304 3]

2 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

https://hockey.hps-sport-shop.de/en/bauer-supreme-m5-pro-skate-intermediate/a-27778

The information is under description, saying that the Pulse SS runner should have the Bauer Power Profile. It is the same information in almost all german onlineshops.

I would not trust any German hockey shop, advertising the M5 Pro and having the picture of the Mach skates  instead 🙂

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

6 minutes ago, vp1304 said:

I would not trust any German hockey shop, advertising the M5 Pro and having the picture of the Mach skates instead 🙂

 

LOL