Ribcore skates hurt me - need help

[Peter Pin 10]

Bought new during summer 2023. Skate is CCM Ribcor Platinum - mid range stuff. worth around $450-500 cad

Previous pair was also Ribcor and loved them. So I played about 12-14 games so far this season with the skates. Beer league.  Baked skates properly in store, twice (when new and more recently). Currently I  feel they are starting to break just like they should, which is great.

Two issues (well maybe it's only one issue)

1) the tongue on both skates tend to twist towards outside direction. Each and every game in middle of first period I need to unlace the top 4 eyelets and redirect tongue through the center then retie.

2) issue #1 causes big pain on inside bone of both ankles. Hurts really bad, bleeds and harms my game. Wounds were larger and worse during December.

I have a narrow foot. I feel the Ribcor are well suited to my foot. I don't feel "lost" in this skate and I feel the support is pretty good.
Special note: i'm using Super Feet insole since day 1. Used the same insole with previous pair and all was perfect. Could it be what causes the issue? Maybe it puts my foot a tad higher than it's supposed to be so my ankle bone isn't at the  right spot (vs standard CCM insole?) Since superfeet insole look ticker on heel portion.

So question for Skates guru. What can cause tongue to twist like this? I never experienced something like this before. I always tie my skates more tight than loose.

Can Super Feet insole be part of the issue? Should I consider having the skates in the inside portion "punched" to be a little more wide?

I think I'll throw the stock cheap ccm insole in the skate for the next 2-3 games to see if that makes any difference.

                                                

 

 

[Sniper9 518]

Is your ankle bone hitting the eyelets or is it just rubbing against the liner? Either way it could be from the to vue sliding outwards which is likely due to a pronation issue you have. When you put weight on your feet does your arches collapse and your foot kind of roll inwards? If so then, in a perfect world would need to fix your probation issue which van be a lot of dedication and time. I'll let @Vet88 chime in all about pronation. But you can also search pronation and see his very useful posts. 

You never had any of these issues with your previous skates? Could be also due to how stiff modern skates are now vs what you had and it's only exposing your pronation issue. 

In the short term you can a little tongue loop to keep the tongue centered and that might help with the inner ankle rubbing but that seems like a bandaid resolution. But if it works it's better than nothing for now. Another bandaid solution would be to get gel pads for your ankles. 

Edited January 14 by Sniper9

[Vet88 673]

On 1/14/2024 at 6:02 AM, Peter Pin said:

Bought new during summer 2023. Skate is CCM Ribcor Platinum - mid range stuff. worth around $450-500 cad

Previous pair was also Ribcor and loved them. So I played about 12-14 games so far this season with the skates. Beer league.  Baked skates properly in store, twice (when new and more recently). Currently I  feel they are starting to break just like they should, which is great.

Two issues (well maybe it's only one issue)

1) the tongue on both skates tend to twist towards outside direction. Each and every game in middle of first period I need to unlace the top 4 eyelets and redirect tongue through the center then retie.

2) issue #1 causes big pain on inside bone of both ankles. Hurts really bad, bleeds and harms my game. Wounds were larger and worse during December.

I have a narrow foot. I feel the Ribcor are well suited to my foot. I don't feel "lost" in this skate and I feel the support is pretty good.
Special note: i'm using Super Feet insole since day 1. Used the same insole with previous pair and all was perfect. Could it be what causes the issue? Maybe it puts my foot a tad higher than it's supposed to be so my ankle bone isn't at the  right spot (vs standard CCM insole?) Since superfeet insole look ticker on heel portion.

So question for Skates guru. What can cause tongue to twist like this? I never experienced something like this before. I always tie my skates more tight than loose.

Can Super Feet insole be part of the issue? Should I consider having the skates in the inside portion "punched" to be a little more wide?

@Sniper9 covered a few things, here I'll try and cover the rest.

Answering issue 1: the only reason your tongue twists off center is because your foot is moving / rotating in the boot. For an outward twist - as you put pressure down on the ice the foot turns inwards in the boot, as you lift your foot off the ice the foot straightens up in the boot and it drags the tongue with it ergo tongue twists to the outside. The reason why your foot turns inwards? Pronation.

Answering issue 2: Again, your foot is rotating inward in the boot and as part of this rotation the inner ankle bone presses hard against the side of the boot. If the ankle bone is not sitting in the ankle pocket then its pressing against the shell of the boot instead of a cushioned pocket. The easiest way to fix this is to get the boot punched in that spot. Get some lipstick, put it on your ankle where the damage is, put you foot into the boot and press the ankle bone against the side of the boot. The lipstick will transfer to the boot and now you can take the boot to a pro shop and ask them to punch right there where the lipstick mark is. Could the tongue be causing it? It's possible if it is bunching at the edge and causing a hard point that the ankle bone is resting on but the damage is on the underside of your ankle bone and that is where the bone will rub against the side of the boot as the foot turns inwards in the boot.

There can be multiple reasons why you are experiencing these issues in these boots but you may not have had the issue before. I suspect fit is a big point, earlier boots may not have had as much volume as these so there is more room for the tongue to move. Or a much thinner tongue. Or previous boots had softer rear quarters so the pressure on the ankle bone was less. Or the holders may be mounted more to the outside of the center line of the boot causing you to pronate more (the foot rolls inwards more) - the difference in the holder placement can be as little as 1mm to create a big difference in pronation. The superfeet are higher in the heel and this can push the ankle bone out of the pocket, it's the one downside to superfeet especially if your ankle bone is not sitting in the mean average spot of most scanned feet in the manufacturer's database. (those of us with narrow feet often suffer from this). Or the boot overall is slightly wider, you just don't notice it due to the different new padding but as this padding compresses your foot is getting more room to rotate / pronate. Or a mix of any of the previous points.

Can I fix it? Yes but there is no simple fix everything cheap answer.

- Simplest fix is to get your skates punched for your ankle bone and tape your tongue in place. This addresses the issues but not the root cause, pronation. Over time your skates will break down quickly because your foot is rotating in the boot.

- The next fix is to go and get fitted for high end skates. The extra stiffness in the side walls will provide the ground force resistance needed to help keep the ankle straight and reduce your pronation. Punch the ankle pocket if needed. Your tongue will still most likely twist to the side slightly. if this really bugs you you can get lace guides glued / stitched to the top of the tongue that you thread the laces thru and this helps to keep the tongue straight. When your boots start to go soft and open up on you, and they will because your pronation is causing the ankle bone to press heavily against the inside of the boot, buy new skates.

- If your skates are a perfect fit you can try mechanical interventions to reduce your pronation - shims, wedges, posts, orthotics and or holder movement. But again, the boots have to be a perfect fit otherwise none of these will work very well or not at all. Downsides to this approach is cost, transferability and effectiveness. You can't just swap it all to a new boot, each boot basically needs to be another custom fit and a new set of costs. And whilst all of this will help you for a straight line glide and a mild edge (aka figure skaters), none of it will help when you get deep on a turn under power or accelerating hard (aka hockey players). 

- Or my approach, fix your pronation thru a simple off ice exercise, commit to it over time and as your pronation reduces all of these issues go away and your skating gets much better. I've done a post in this forum about the exercise, link below. I've also done a comprehensive doc about the exercise and pronation in skates but it's too long to post here so message me if you want it. 

 

[BenBreeg 490]

Just to add, I have those same skates.  My first pair I was a little too aggressive on sizing.  Got 9s for about an 11 1/2 foot.  I experienced some irritation on my ankle bone because it was too far forward in the ankle pocket.  Ribcores are not real deep and don’t wrap much.  Moving to a 9 1/2 solved the ankle issue.

[Peter Pin 10]

19 hours ago, Sniper9 said:

Is your ankle bone hitting the eyelets or is it just rubbing against the liner? Either way it could be from the to vue sliding outwards which is likely due to a pronation issue you have. When you put weight on your feet does your arches collapse and your foot kind of roll inwards? If so then, in a perfect world would need to fix your probation issue which van be a lot of dedication and time. I'll let @Vet88 chime in all about pronation. But you can also search pronation and see his very useful posts. 

You never had any of these issues with your previous skates? Could be also due to how stiff modern skates are now vs what you had and it's only exposing your pronation issue. 

In the short term you can a little tongue loop to keep the tongue centered and that might help with the inner ankle rubbing but that seems like a bandaid resolution. But if it works it's better than nothing for now. Another bandaid solution would be to get gel pads for your ankles. 

Thanks for you comment.

Never had that kind of issues in the past with other skates. But these are the stiffest I've ever own for sure.

I'm really not sure if the wounds are caused by eyelets or just my ankle rubbing on the liner. But the more I think about it, the more I suspect the eyelets. I don't think that kind or injuries could be caused just by friction on lining. Yeah, looks like when I put all my 180lbs on my feet, arches tend to collapse inwards. And all my shoes (cleats, courts, work shoes) tend to wear on from the interior part of the soles.

I'm probably a pronator.

 

Edited January 15 by Peter Pin

[Peter Pin 10]

1 hour ago, BenBreeg said:

Just to add, I have those same skates.  My first pair I was a little too aggressive on sizing.  Got 9s for about an 11 1/2 foot.  I experienced some irritation on my ankle bone because it was too far forward in the ankle pocket.  Ribcores are not real deep and don’t wrap much.  Moving to a 9 1/2 solved the ankle issue.

Thanks for your comment.

I'm shoe size 11. These are 9 1/2 skates. I'm feel length is perfect for me. Agreed they are not super deep and don't wrap much.

Edited January 15 by Peter Pin

[Peter Pin 10]

13 hours ago, Vet88 said:

@Sniper9 covered a few things, here I'll try and cover the rest.

Answering issue 1: the only reason your tongue twists off center is because your foot is moving / rotating in the boot. For an outward twist - as you put pressure down on the ice the foot turns inwards in the boot, as you lift your foot off the ice the foot straightens up in the boot and it drags the tongue with it ergo tongue twists to the outside. The reason why your foot turns inwards? Pronation.

 

Answering issue 2: Again, your foot is rotating inward in the boot and as part of this rotation the inner ankle bone presses hard against the side of the boot. If the ankle bone is not sitting in the ankle pocket then its pressing against the shell of the boot instead of a cushioned pocket. The easiest way to fix this is to get the boot punched in that spot. Get some lipstick, put it on your ankle where the damage is, put you foot into the boot and press the ankle bone against the side of the boot. The lipstick will transfer to the boot and now you can take the boot to a pro shop and ask them to punch right there where the lipstick mark is. Could the tongue be causing it? It's possible if it is bunching at the edge and causing a hard point that the ankle bone is resting on but the damage is on the underside of your ankle bone and that is where the bone will rub against the side of the boot as the foot turns inwards in the boot.

There can be multiple reasons why you are experiencing these issues in these boots but you may not have had the issue before. I suspect fit is a big point, earlier boots may not have had as much volume as these so there is more room for the tongue to move. Or a much thinner tongue. Or previous boots had softer rear quarters so the pressure on the ankle bone was less. Or the holders may be mounted more to the outside of the center line of the boot causing you to pronate more (the foot rolls inwards more) - the difference in the holder placement can be as little as 1mm to create a big difference in pronation. The superfeet are higher in the heel and this can push the ankle bone out of the pocket, it's the one downside to superfeet especially if your ankle bone is not sitting in the mean average spot of most scanned feet in the manufacturer's database. (those of us with narrow feet often suffer from this). Or the boot overall is slightly wider, you just don't notice it due to the different new padding but as this padding compresses your foot is getting more room to rotate / pronate. Or a mix of any of the previous points.

Can I fix it? Yes but there is no simple fix everything cheap answer.

- Simplest fix is to get your skates punched for your ankle bone and tape your tongue in place. This addresses the issues but not the root cause, pronation. Over time your skates will break down quickly because your foot is rotating in the boot.

- The next fix is to go and get fitted for high end skates. The extra stiffness in the side walls will provide the ground force resistance needed to help keep the ankle straight and reduce your pronation. Punch the ankle pocket if needed. Your tongue will still most likely twist to the side slightly. if this really bugs you you can get lace guides glued / stitched to the top of the tongue that you thread the laces thru and this helps to keep the tongue straight. When your boots start to go soft and open up on you, and they will because your pronation is causing the ankle bone to press heavily against the inside of the boot, buy new skates.

- If your skates are a perfect fit you can try mechanical interventions to reduce your pronation - shims, wedges, posts, orthotics and or holder movement. But again, the boots have to be a perfect fit otherwise none of these will work very well or not at all. Downsides to this approach is cost, transferability and effectiveness. You can't just swap it all to a new boot, each boot basically needs to be another custom fit and a new set of costs. And whilst all of this will help you for a straight line glide and a mild edge (aka figure skaters), none of it will help when you get deep on a turn under power or accelerating hard (aka hockey players). 

- Or my approach, fix your pronation thru a simple off ice exercise, commit to it over time and as your pronation reduces all of these issues go away and your skating gets much better. I've done a post in this forum about the exercise, link below. I've also done a comprehensive doc about the exercise and pronation in skates but it's too long to post here so message me if you want it. 

 

Wow great info thanks.

comment on answer 1 make sense. Pronation is the elephant in the room probably.

The simple fixes you proposed are the ones I'll try first:

Removing SuperFeet and going with stock CCM insole that are flatter/thinner on heel + Lipstick trick with punch at local Skate Shop i. If I can start by just reducing or even better removing pain caused by this would be a great start. Cause honestly this affects my game since when I put 100% pressure on skates during accelerations and quick turns, its hurts/burns real bad.

I thought about taping the tongue but wasnt sure it was a great idea as it could induce some stiffness through the front. I'll maybe try it whatsoever.

New high end skates will probably be on my way if I can't sort this out with the simple/cheap fixes on the Ribcors

 

Will definitely dig more deeply in the pronation fixes and exercises. Especially if it can help my skate ability and in other sports (I play high level ultimate frisbee as well)

I had multiple ankle injuries in the past (several sprain/fracture) on both side. Maybe my pronation has something related to this.

 

Thanks very appreciated 

 

 

 

[Hills 710]

1 hour ago, Peter Pin said:

Thanks for your comment.

I'm shoe size 11. These are 9 1/2 skates. I'm feel length is perfect for me. Agreed they are not super deep and don't wrap much.

Generally speaking by those sizes... your skates are probably an entire size too big. Can you take pictures of your insoles from the top down?

I am in an 11 shoe (obviously depends on the shoe) and wearing multiple custom 8.5 skates with comfort room in the toes, an 8 would be my "pro" fit.

[Peter Pin 10]

2 hours ago, Hills said:

Generally speaking by those sizes... your skates are probably an entire size too big. Can you take pictures of your insoles from the top down?

I am in an 11 shoe (obviously depends on the shoe) and wearing multiple custom 8.5 skates with comfort room in the toes, an 8 would be my "pro" fit.

I'm sometimes a 11.5 shoe in some brands. I tried 8.5 Vapor, Ribcors, in the past. Too tight.

I could probably fit a 9 size (pro-fit) skate but I'm pretty confident my 9.5 Ribcors aren't too tall. And I don't think my current issues are skates length related.

[Hills 710]

Taking a picture of the insole would still be extremely helpful here.

Skate issues in general are "Fit" issues. If your skates are too long, there is a significant chance that something in there isn't fitting correctly.

[noupf 42]

5 hours ago, Peter Pin said:

Thanks for your comment.

I'm shoe size 11. These are 9 1/2 skates. I'm feel length is perfect for me. Agreed they are not super deep and don't wrap much.

Just chiming in here with size, as another poster mentioned, the skate my be a half size to big for you.  Clearly not all feet are the same, but I am in the Ribcor 100k Pros and they are the single best fitting skate i've ever owned.  I am 100% an 11.5 shoe and opted for the 9.5 skate.  I probably could have gone with a 9.0, but it would have been just a hair too tight as one of my toes was right up to the toe cap when standing, so i opted for the 9.5.  I really think its a minimum of 2 sizes down in skates now a days, where in the past it was 1.5.  Some guys are saying 2.5 sizes down and I can see where it may be true for some players.

[Peter Pin 10]

34 minutes ago, noupf said:

Just chiming in here with size, as another poster mentioned, the skate my be a half size to big for you.  Clearly not all feet are the same, but I am in the Ribcor 100k Pros and they are the single best fitting skate i've ever owned.  I am 100% an 11.5 shoe and opted for the 9.5 skate.  I probably could have gone with a 9.0, but it would have been just a hair too tight as one of my toes was right up to the toe cap when standing, so i opted for the 9.5.  I really think its a minimum of 2 sizes down in skates now a days, where in the past it was 1.5.  Some guys are saying 2.5 sizes down and I can see where it may be true for some players.

Well since you are second person to talk about potential sizing issue (maybe half a size or a full size too long) and I really want to solve this issue, I'll keep this hypothesis in mind. But as I wrote earlier. Sometimes I'm size 11.5 in some shoe brands. Not always 11. So we probably have similar feet, length wise.

[Hills 710]

Showing the insole picture I mentioned would be extremely beneficial to this 🤷‍♂️

[Vet88 673]

7 hours ago, Peter Pin said:

I had multiple ankle injuries in the past (several sprain/fracture) on both side. Maybe my pronation has something related to this.

Often injuries makes your pronation worse but it can also be a standalone problem. Unless it was debilitating, typically we don't rehab an ankle injury, once we are mobile again the ankle recovers on it's own. Yet the injury has stretched tendons and ligaments and these don't return to their original range of motion. So your lateral range of ankle movement is now greater and you don't have proper muscular control over this increased range of motion. In general life this isn't a problem but put your feet into ice skates and now it causes an issue. Do the exercise, it will help to fix this.

[Vet88 673]

1 hour ago, Peter Pin said:

Well since you are second person to talk about potential sizing issue (maybe half a size or a full size too long) and I really want to solve this issue, 

You can test the length yourself with the pencil test. Get an HB pencil. Take the laces out of the skate, this is important to prevent the skate and tongue from binding on the foot. Pull the togue right out, put your foot into the boot and push your foot forward until the tips of the toes are lightly brushing the toe cap. Now bend forward slightly in the boot and see if you can slide the pencil down the back of your heel. If you can slide the pencil down between your heel and the boot then the skates are at least a 1/2 size too long for what is considered an optimal fit.

[Sniper9 518]

I'm a shoe size 9. Been wearing 7 forever but recently tried 6.5 just bc. And although my toes did push up against the toe cap when standing straight (vs brushing) it didn't feel all that uncomfortable. 6.5 fit 3 gave me a bit more length and that actually felt good.  But like people have mentioned every foot is diff. I'm in between a fit 1 and 2 in siZe 7 and my right foot is a 6.5. So me finding a happy medium with retail skates have been a challenge but I think ultimately I'm a 6.5 fit 3 with Bauer. 

As for you trying other skates being too tight. Being tight has nothing to do with length but more to do with depth and width. Look at my example, I actually sized down lengthwise to get a width that fit me. As for you, if 9.5 is what allows you get fit Inna skate that isn't too tight all around, you should look into going down half a size and up one in the width department (unless your already in a wide boot). 

Lastly, I pronate with my right foot and the one thing that helped a lot without me tinkering with anything is using Bauer speedplates. They are firm and hard and don't give. I mold them standing up so my arches aren't collapsed. This way when I do put weight on my right foot the speed plate holds it's arch and prevent my foot from rolling over inside the boot. It's been great for me. I also did a lot of exercises to reduce my pronation as well. 

But as hills said. Stand on your insoles and take a picture. Your biggest toe should completely cover the tip of the insole, otherwise skates are too big. 

Edited January 15 by Sniper9

[boo10 323]

3 hours ago, Hills said:

Showing the insole picture I mentioned would be extremely beneficial to this 🤷‍♂️

Agreed, this is going to be the best indicator for people to judge online.

OP should be wary of people suggesting X sizes down from shoe size, as I believe many (if not most) people wear shoes that are technically too big for them, especially if they have wide feet.  I can almost guarantee that anyone wearing a skate 3+ sizes smaller than their shoe size, has a lot of room between the tip of their toes and the end of their shoe.

[Peter Pin 10]

So here are some pictures.

One shot with skate in my foot yesterday after outdoor rink session with daughter. Tongue twisting outwards.

As far as sizing, my big toe goes beyond insole. You tell me if it should go farther over insole.

          

[Hills 710]

Show us the Superfeet from straight down without you standing on it.

[Peter Pin 10]

 

 

 

[Hills 710]

See all the yellow in front of the Superfeet? Your skates are too big length wise, and it is probably affecting how the rest of the skate is fitting as well.

Guessing your Superfeet are sized incorrectly as well, did you go by the number on the box?

[Peter Pin 10]

Superfeet are size E (skate 9-10) under recommendation of local hockey shop employee (which wasn't a 15 year old kiddo)

I agree there is clean yellow in front on the Superfeet.  I could probably play a 9.... not sure about 8 1/2 though. Since on my 9 1/2, the front end of my toes are flirting with the toe cap. Not super roomy over there.

edit: BTW just want to specify. I used the same SF insoles with my previous 9 1/2!!! Ribcors and I didn't have any issues like this. Yeah the previous pair were a tad more entry level but not a huge notch vs my new pair. 

Edited January 16 by Peter Pin

[Hills 710]

The only time we didn't have to trim Superfeet length was with EXTREMELY skinny feet. You fit Superfeet based on the heel cup fit and not the length. Since this employee also put you in these skates that are too big for you already, I am not going to trust their sizing for the Superfeet as well.

Vet has already given a bunch of solid suggestions on what you can do to mitigate this issue, but there is a VERY solid chance that the fit of these skates is what is causing the issue first and foremost.

[Peter Pin 10]

Thanks for you advices and inputs Hills

just a FYI skates and SF insole were bought at different time and different shop. 

 

I will definitely give some Vet’s suggestions a chance before throwing $800-$1k on a new pair, better fitted.  But maybe it will be required some day.

 

 

 

[Sniper9 518]

I don't understand how you are that far off the superfeet but when you're on the stock insoles you completely cover the ends. 

Also keep in mind that even if a certain model skate is fitted properly for you, it could be that it just doesn't work for your feet. Whether or be the height of the boot, where the ankle pads are, stiffness, etc. Sometimes it can get expensive trying different skates but hopefully your issue is just poor sizing.