10' profile

[pgeorgan 80]

I've tried almost every ProSharp profile there is and recently skated on out-of-the-box Bauer Fly-X. Best skate I've ever had. Used to be a big believer in these other profiles but not anymore. I feel stupid for having skated on the quads the last several years. 

[Larry54 243]

I tried quad zero once on my 254mm blade only because I could order a new blade with it. After a year I never really gelled with it and I wasn't willing to go down the profile rabbit hole. So I went back to the 10' factory profile and felt right at home. Maybe my brain / muscle memory couldn't adapt to multiple contours. I think I'm better off practising on a single profile than trying to find a magic profile that might improve my skating somehow. The farthest I might go from a single profile is to try a 9/10 or 9.5/10.5. Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 1, 2024 by Larry54

[puckpilot 312]

IMHO, profiles have their place. I've always treated them like a tool aiding me as I work to improve. They never fixed any of my issues. They never made me a better skater. At best they masked my flaws. I used a 13/26 profile with a negative pitch for like 5 years. It's what I needed as I worked on my flaws. 

About 6 months ago, I moved back to a 13' neutral profile, which is what I think I need/want now as I further work on getting better. I'm sure down the road, I'll probably move a little bit closer to the 10' stock profile, but we'll see.

To me, profiles are like curves. A curve makes certain things easier/harder, but it isn't going to make you something you're not. Just because you use Ovi's curve doesn't mean you can shoot like Ovi. Just as using profile X isn't going to make you McDavid. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you a bridge. 

[pgeorgan 80]

On 10/31/2024 at 10:08 PM, puckpilot said:

IMHO, profiles have their place. I've always treated them like a tool aiding me as I work to improve. They never fixed any of my issues. They never made me a better skater. At best they masked my flaws. I used a 13/26 profile with a negative pitch for like 5 years. It's what I needed as I worked on my flaws. 

About 6 months ago, I moved back to a 13' neutral profile, which is what I think I need/want now as I further work on getting better. I'm sure down the road, I'll probably move a little bit closer to the 10' stock profile, but we'll see.

To me, profiles are like curves. A curve makes certain things easier/harder, but it isn't going to make you something you're not. Just because you use Ovi's curve doesn't mean you can shoot like Ovi. Just as using profile X isn't going to make you McDavid. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you a bridge. 

My experience was similar. Probably made me a better skater for having had the experience, but going back to a 10' for the first time in years was sort of eye opening. It dawned on me that the idea of a quad or a multi-radii profile is somewhat flawed in that I'm not sure you can really have the best of both worlds. Eg, agility doesn't just come from the front part of the runner. If you flatten the back to add stability, you're going to notice it in other aspects of your game. You're definitely going to lose some agility, somewhere. 

Further, I don't really feel that "unstable" on a basic 10' with neutral pitch as compared to a quad. I'm right where I need to be on my skates and I think that translates to being the most stable, IMO. That's certainly how I feel on the ice, anyway. 

[pgeorgan 80]

On 10/31/2024 at 9:05 PM, Larry54 said:

I tried quad zero once on my 254mm blade only because I could order a new blade with it. After a year I never really gelled with it and I wasn't willing to go down the profile rabbit hole. So I went back to the 10' factory profile and felt right at home. Maybe my brain / muscle memory couldn't adapt to multiple contours. I think I'm better off practising on a single profile than trying to find a magic profile that might improve my skating somehow. The farthest I might go from a single profile is to try a 9/10 or 9.5/10.5. Just my 2 cents.

I think a 9.5/10.5 is about the only one I'd considered trying at this point, just given the positive experience I've had with a basic 10'. 

Edited November 2, 2024 by pgeorgan

[Larry54 243]

On 11/2/2024 at 9:09 AM, pgeorgan said:

My experience was similar. Probably made me a better skater for having had the experience, but going back to a 10' for the first time in years was sort of eye opening. It dawned on me that the idea of a quad or a multi-radii profile is somewhat flawed in that I'm not sure you can really have the best of both worlds. Eg, agility doesn't just come from the front part of the runner. If you flatten the back to add stability, you're going to notice it in other aspects of your game. You're definitely going to lose some agility, somewhere. 

Further, I don't really feel that "unstable" on a basic 10' with neutral pitch as compared to a quad. I'm right where I need to be on my skates and I think that translates to being the most stable, IMO. That's certainly how I feel on the ice, anyway. 

I feel that if you work enough on your skating, you reach a level of stability that makes flatter portions of a profile less necessary. And the flatter portions will only limit your agility. If one's goal is only top speed that might be another story. But I find agility much more useful than top speed in hockey, anyway. Each person has different needs, and the 10' gives me what I need.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Larry54

[flip12 717]

Different profiles for different people though. I feel much more agile on 13'+1 than I did on neutral 10' or 9.5'/10.5' (if that's True's stock profile). I don't feel the blade catching at all when I don't want it to. I'm thinking of going to an even longer profile next.

I haven't tried any of the more complicated combos, but I really don't want a super short profile in the front of my blade as well as the added pitch. The added pitch is enough.

Just like ROH, I'd say go with what works. If you get good enough grip at a shallower hollow or if you have enough agility and quickness at a longer radius, it'll only help. As soon as the blade is grabbing when you're not expecting it there's too much dig, either front-to-back/profile or side-to-side/hollow, and it's time to back off. That's my work-in-progress theory.

[pgeorgan 80]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:25 AM, flip12 said:

Different profiles for different people though. I feel much more agile on 13'+1 than I did on neutral 10' or 9.5'/10.5' (if that's True's stock profile). I don't feel the blade catching at all when I don't want it to. I'm thinking of going to an even longer profile next.

I haven't tried any of the more complicated combos, but I really don't want a super short profile in the front of my blade as well as the added pitch. The added pitch is enough.

I'm thinking of trying a 9.5/10.5 but am nervous I'll lose a lot of the agility I have with a 10'. Wondering what your opinion was of the two, since it appears you've tried them both. Or anyone else for that matter. Some other folks have said that it feels like a Quad 0.5, but that's 8-10-12-14, so not really sure how those could be at all similar. In my experience, the Quad 0.5 would just be another one of those "skates on rails" profiles, which I'm not going back to. 

I've also heard good things about the Elite SCS 1. The SCS 1 in standard size is 6-17-13-4, which just trying to wrap my head around sounds pretty wild. They also don't tell you how much of each section is profiled to which radius. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by pgeorgan

[flip12 717]

2 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I'm thinking of trying a 9.5/10.5 but am nervous I'll lose a lot of the agility I have with a 10'. Wondering what your opinion was of the two, since it appears you've tried them both. Or anyone else for that matter. Some other folks have said that it feels like a Quad 0.5, but that's 8-10-12-14, so not really sure how those could be at all similar. In my experience, the Quad 0.5 would just be another one of those "skates on rails" profiles, which I'm not going back to. 

I've also heard good things about the Elite SCS 1. The SCS 1 in standard size is 6-17-13-4, which just trying to wrap my head around sounds pretty wild. They also don't tell you how much of each section is profiled to which radius. 

I'm not the best to comment because I'm drifting toward the long end of the profile spectrum. I think the closer I get to what my skating mechanics were developed on, the more natural I feel on the ice. I really honed my skating for hours in my apartment building's parking lot on '96 or '97 Mission Proto Vs on a 4 x 72mm chassis. The more my blades mimic the pitch and flat radius of those rollerblades, the more natural I feel on the ice.

I get why some skaters would feel locked on rails in a 10' radius, but my mechanics seem to center around something closer to 20' +2. 13' and Ellipse II, both at +1 pitch, feel perfectly short and quick to me. 13' neutral felt a little rail like, but as soon as I had it redone with +1 pitch I never felt stuck on the ice again. It seems like the shorter front sections can mimic the effect of pitch if you don't actually want to mess with pitch.

My favorite ice setup so far has been Cobra's stock 11' (now I think they're doing 10') on what felt like at least +2, compared to the +1s I have at the moment.

[pgeorgan 80]

7 minutes ago, flip12 said:

I'm not the best to comment because I'm drifting toward the long end of the profile spectrum. I think the closer I get to what my skating mechanics were developed on, the more natural I feel on the ice. I really honed my skating for hours in my apartment building's parking lot on '96 or '97 Mission Proto Vs on a 4 x 72mm chassis. The more my blades mimic the pitch and flat radius of those rollerblades, the more natural I feel on the ice.

I get why some skaters would feel locked on rails in a 10' radius, but my mechanics seem to center around something closer to 20' +2. 13' and Ellipse II, both at +1 pitch, feel perfectly short and quick to me. 13' neutral felt a little rail like, but as soon as I had it redone with +1 pitch I never felt stuck on the ice again. It seems like the shorter front sections can mimic the effect of pitch if you don't actually want to mess with pitch.

My favorite ice setup so far has been Cobra's stock 11' (now I think they're doing 10') on what felt like at least +2, compared to the +1s I have at the moment.

Similar situation for me on rollerblades, actually. The only problem is those boots could actually flex!

One of the pleasant surprises of going from Quad to 10' was that I found I didn't need to tie my laces as tight. Having so much toe shaved down in the case of the Quad was forcing me to tie my laces tighter than what was optimal, for whatever reason. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by pgeorgan

[flip12 717]

22 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Similar situation for me on rollerblades, actually. The only problem is those boots could actually flex!

One of the pleasant surprises of going from Quad to 10' was that I found I didn't need to tie my laces as tight. Having so much toe shaved down in the case of the Quad was forcing me to tie my laces tighter than what was optimal, for whatever reason. 

The boot flex definitely has some effect on this equation, though I was stumped just when I thought I was getting it. I had some VSi's converted to ice, on VH/Step holders, thinking they'd be as amazing on ice as they were on their original 72/80 HIlo. They were not. They felt comfy, but pretty much as frustrating as any other ice hockey skate I've tried, with a few exceptions. I think that was the moment that I decided to actually start trying out profiles, which I had been thinking about doing for a long time.

My favorite boots do feature a similar degree of forward flex and lateral stability as the Proto Vs did though: Vapor 8, Vapor 10, Mega Air 90, 703, and MLX with the right tongue.

With the right boot, like the Vapor 10, even a profile on the opposite end of the spectrum feels quite nice. I can only imagine how Vapor 10 on my ideal profile would feel, once I find it.

[pgeorgan 80]

1 hour ago, flip12 said:

The boot flex definitely has some effect on this equation, though I was stumped just when I thought I was getting it. I had some VSi's converted to ice, on VH/Step holders, thinking they'd be as amazing on ice as they were on their original 72/80 HIlo. They were not. They felt comfy, but pretty much as frustrating as any other ice hockey skate I've tried, with a few exceptions. I think that was the moment that I decided to actually start trying out profiles, which I had been thinking about doing for a long time.

My favorite boots do feature a similar degree of forward flex and lateral stability as the Proto Vs did though: Vapor 8, Vapor 10, Mega Air 90, 703, and MLX with the right tongue.

With the right boot, like the Vapor 10, even a profile on the opposite end of the spectrum feels quite nice. I can only imagine how Vapor 10 on my ideal profile would feel, once I find it.

I was on Mission's. Last pair was from circa 2001. Couldn't tell you which ones, but they had the plastic hooks on the outside for heel lock. I used to ratchet down the heel lock part and then skip every eyelet after except the top, which I made extra tight. 

Edited November 23, 2024 by pgeorgan

[flip12 717]

13 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I was on Mission's. Last pair was from circa 2001. Couldn't tell you which ones, but they had the plastic hooks on the outside for heel lock. I used to ratchet down the heel lock part and then skip every eyelet after except the top, which I made extra tight. 

My Mission Proto Vs had a metal d-ring instead of the plastic loop. I think it was one generation before they went to the plastic loops. I don't think I used it. I just laced snug, but not overly tight, all the way up. The cut on those was like 90's Tacks on Ozempic. I think that was the basic idea behind the Proto line. By reducing the volume with lower vamping, it made for a nice snug fit, similar to Tacks with the ankle hinge flex, but more connected. The first two generations of Vapors were similar in that respect. The ankle creasing made for a boot with great forward flex while maintaining lateral stability.

[cougarscaptain87 12]

my 10 year old skates on a 9'/10' and loves how it feels and I like how he looks on it, I skate on a 9.5'/10.5' and the difference between a straight 10' profile is noticeable but it doesn't feel foreign. 9.5' up front gives you a bit more agility but doesn't make you feel like you loose any speed, could be all mental but I think it's a great profile for a vast majority of adult sized skaters.

[pgeorgan 80]

@flip12 Out of morbid curiosity I got an SCS 1 standard/medium profile on Black Friday. I quite liked it. Not quite as agile as 10', but still agile and definitely more stable. Big upgrade from the Quads and solves the problem of the ultra flat back they have. 

Edited December 5, 2024 by pgeorgan

[flip12 717]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

@flip12 Out of morbid curiosity I got an SCS 1 standard/medium profile on Black Friday. I quite liked it. Not quite as agile as 10', but still agile and definitely more stable. Big upgrade from the Quads and solves the problem of the ultra flat back they

That sounds interesting. I may have had a quad on my first pair of MLX. The eBay seller I got them from didn’t know what the steel specs were, but I liked the feel. It was like a flat on the heel that fell into a ramp as you rolled forward.

I have Ellipse II on my Cat7s now. It feels better than what they came with, but I’m not bothered by the flatter back portion. Some say it feels longer than Quad II.

I’m more interested in seeing how long of a single radius I can roll with and at what balance point. I think balance point is the most effective variable for my skating. The shorter front on combo profiles and Ellipse don’t seem to be much of a feature for me.

[pgeorgan 80]

4 minutes ago, flip12 said:

That sounds interesting. I may have had a quad on my first pair of MLX. The eBay seller I got them from didn’t know what the steel specs were, but I liked the feel. It was like a flat on the heel that fell into a ramp as you rolled forward.

I have Ellipse II on my Cat7s now. It feels better than what they came with, but I’m not bothered by the flatter back portion. Some say it feels longer than Quad II.

I’m more interested in seeing how long of a single radius I can roll with and at what balance point. I think balance point is the most effective variable for my skating. The shorter front on combo profiles and Ellipse don’t seem to be much of a feature for me.

I'd say the SCS 1 is a neutral pitch profile. Not forward leaning with no toe like the Quads I'm used to. A little longer feeling than a 10' if you're going for something closer to being on rollerblades. 

Edited December 5, 2024 by pgeorgan

[flip12 717]

I think the pitch / balance point shift is what I like most about the Ellipse II. The back being a little longer than my 13’+1 feels good, but the change in balance point is the most freeing thing about both profiles.

I thought it was about achieving a similar pitch to VSi on 72-80 HiLo, but that’s actually a little less pitched than most hockey holders. Maybe it’s really about moving the center line of the blade to be where my push naturally is, which is probably somewhere close to the third wheel from the front.

[Beflar 53]

True Hockey recommends sharpening your skates in the 3/4, 7/8, or 1-inch range if you're using a profile like Quad or Zup.

If you try that and still hate them, well... fair enough.

[stick9 893]

On 10/31/2024 at 2:55 PM, pgeorgan said:

I've tried almost every ProSharp profile there is and recently skated on out-of-the-box Bauer Fly-X. Best skate I've ever had. Used to be a big believer in these other profiles but not anymore. I feel stupid for having skated on the quads the last several years. 

I had the same experience. I think every boot/holder/runner setup is unique. The same goes for player needs and wants. Some setups just work with little to no tweaking, others require tweaking. Some tweaks are just personal preference as opposed to "I can't skate in these skates".

 

Edited January 3 by stick9

[pgeorgan 80]

On 1/2/2025 at 12:31 AM, Beflar said:

True Hockey recommends sharpening your skates in the 3/4, 7/8, or 1-inch range if you're using a profile like Quad or Zup.

If you try that and still hate them, well... fair enough.

I was using a 5/8 fire so pretty close I think. 

26 minutes ago, stick9 said:

I had the same experience. I think every boot/holder/runner setup is unique. The same goes for player needs and wants. Some setups just work with little to no tweaking, others require tweaking. Some tweaks are just personal preference as opposed to "I can't skate in these skates".

 

Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the Quads were a good teaching tool but I think I've outgrown them. They're good in their own right but all this marketing about how they're as agile or more than for example a 10' profile is just not true. And that's not unique to the Quads. I tried the "most agile" Elite SCS which was marketed as being more agile than a 10' - also untrue. 

[flip12 717]

24 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

I was using a 5/8 fire so pretty close I think. 

Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the Quads were a good teaching tool but I think I've outgrown them. They're good in their own right but all this marketing about how they're as agile or more than for example a 10' profile is just not true. And that's not unique to the Quads. I tried the "most agile" Elite SCS which was marketed as being more agile than a 10' - also untrue. 

The way you put it, all of this reminds me of blade curves. Some will do the work for you, but it’s not as though you can’t shoot off the toe or do toe drags with a PM9, it just requires more mechanical work from the user rather than relying on the shortcut approach afforded by the tool. Programming has a cool term for similar neat-but-not-absolutely-necessary shortcuts: syntactic sugar. These complex geometries could be like mechanical sugar, making some much more comfortable performing feats that would otherwise be much too involved. For some, it’s the bees knees, for others it’s just meh. I’m kind of the same with curves. I used to be really dedicated to one in particular, but then I came to realize my golden stick was actually just balanced to my brain’s narrow tolerances. Now if a stick’s balanced right, the curve doesn’t matter all that much.

[start_today 772]

The stick blade compression is really good. You can point a a ton of NHL players who have elite skill sets and use fairly different blades. It’s more about picking a steel profile and radius that works for you and sticking with it,and learning to maximize that, rather than constantly tinkering and fantasizing that changing the shape of your runner is gonna give you better hockey sense and make you noticeably faster. 

[pgeorgan 80]

45 minutes ago, start_today said:

The stick blade compression is really good. You can point a a ton of NHL players who have elite skill sets and use fairly different blades. It’s more about picking a steel profile and radius that works for you and sticking with it,and learning to maximize that, rather than constantly tinkering and fantasizing that changing the shape of your runner is gonna give you better hockey sense and make you noticeably faster. 

I do believe there are advantages and disadvantages to different profiles. I think at this point it's inarguable. My point was simply that the so-called "standard" profiles aren't all that bad in the first place. It did take me a while to come to this conclus

[flip12 717]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

I do believe there are advantages and disadvantages to different profiles. I think at this point it's inarguable. My point was simply that the so-called "standard" profiles aren't all that bad in the first place. It did take me a while to come to this conclus

I remember David Booth talking about how much he liked his Trues because they allowed him to perform the way he wanted on a single radius, after having tried everything to make his previous boots work for him. Sounds very similar to your experience, just in a different make.