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strosedefence34

Full Cages/ Shields in the NHL.. Random question

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I was watching the Sharks Flyers game the other night and Marc-Edouard Vlasic took a puck to the face late in the 3rd.  I know players are allowed to wear full face protection if they have an injury.

I was wondering though if the NHL changed the rules and gave the option to players to wear full face protection or a half shield do you guys think players would opt for full face protection?

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Howdy,

7 minutes ago, strosedefence34 said:

I was watching the Sharks Flyers game the other night and Marc-Edouard Vlasic took a puck to the face late in the 3rd.  I know players are allowed to wear full face protection if they have an injury.

I was wondering though if the NHL changed the rules and gave the option to players to wear full face protection or a half shield do you guys think players would opt for full face protection?

 

Given that a full cage reduces visibility at least somewhat, I can't see players voluntarily choosing to wear a cage when competitors aren't.

I also think the NHL should mandate full cages.  If everyone has the same restriction, then its no longer a performance detriment.  But I don't see that happening any time soon due to culture/inertia plus the marketing downside of making superstar faces less visible.

 

Mark

Edited by marka

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2 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

 

Given that a full cage reduces visibility at least somewhat, I can't see players voluntarily choosing to wear a cage when competitors aren't.

I also think the NHL should mandate full cages.  If everyone has the same restriction, then its no longer a performance detriment.  But I don't see that happening any time soon due to culture/inertia plus the marketing downside of making superstar faces less visible.

 

Mark

It won't happen until something tragic happens that forces the NHL's hand, and even then it'll be full shields / fishbowls.

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Cages somehow were found "dangerous" by NHL. So yes, they are not likely to be allowed anytime soon. Fishbowls however could, but not likely. Players being macho, will not be accepting, I do not think. This also will impede the fist fighting culture as dropping helmet is already ruled out I believe.

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50 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

Cages somehow were found "dangerous" by NHL. So yes, they are not likely to be allowed anytime soon. Fishbowls however could, but not likely. Players being macho, will not be accepting, I do not think. This also will impede the fist fighting culture as dropping helmet is already ruled out I believe.

You have to drop your helmet if you have a shield, I believe.

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Just now, Jamarquan said:

You have to drop your helmet if you have a shield, I believe.

Taking your helmet off to fight is a penalty.

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In college leagues, they just wrestle and punch in the cages/bowls with their gloves... it is pretty entertaining to watch, but I do not think NHL is up for this.

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8 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

Cages somehow were found "dangerous" by NHL. So yes, they are not likely to be allowed anytime soon. Fishbowls however could, but not likely. Players being macho, will not be accepting, I do not think. This also will impede the fist fighting culture as dropping helmet is already ruled out I believe.

Cages are only dangerous when some players have them and others don't. A teammate of mine in a half-shield took stitches last season from a routine collision with a cage.

10 hours ago, marka said:

Given that a full cage reduces visibility at least somewhat, I can't see players voluntarily choosing to wear a cage when competitors aren't. I also think the NHL should mandate full cages.  If everyone has the same restriction, then its no longer a performance detriment.  But I don't see that happening any time soon due to culture/inertia plus the marketing downside of making superstar faces less visible.

They'll eventually require full-face protection and within a few years, the idea of playing without a full shield will seem as crazy as playing without a helmet or goalies playing without masks seems today. Both were once the rare exception rather than the rule; and they were hated by players and fans, as well as a source of derision toward players who wore them, initially. The current half-shield rule for new NHL players is an obvious move in that direction, as is the fact that nearly all NHL players besides modern-day enforcers continue wearing them after they're eligible to remove them.  

Already, at least one full shield (the newer version of the Avision Ahead bubble) provides full protection with zero loss of visibility or peripheral view, and without any optical distortion whatsoever. I'm sure they'll eventually be able to resolve any ventilation issue that contributes to heat buildup.

Edited by YesLanges
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I don't see them implementing this change anytime soon.  I do agree with a lot of the points made no fighting if you have a cage and how cages are a danger to people who aren't in full faced protection.  I just wonder if players would switch given the option. 

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It won't necessarily be soon and I highly doubt it will be cages, but it's probably inevitable. They said the exact same thing about face protection for football once upon a time, and it was the NHL itself that rejected helmets when they were first presented with the idea about 80 years ago. The funny thing is that the NCAA has actually been talking about going backwards on this and allowing half-shields instead of cages. That would last exactly as long as it takes for the first serious eye injury in college hockey before they go right back to cages and bubbles for good.

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Not so sure. In the last 30 years I can count on one hand the number of serious eye injuries in professional hockey that I am aware of. And that includes the NHL, AHL, and European leagues.

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Unlikely to ever happen. It took decades to get the players to agree to visors, and that was something they were already used to from junior. 

Cages in the NHL would only ever follow a few decades of cages in junior, and even then.... very unlikely.

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4 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

I don't see them implementing this change anytime soon.  I do agree with a lot of the points made no fighting if you have a cage and how cages are a danger to people who aren't in full faced protection.  I just wonder if players would switch given the option. 

Fighting is available, it is just a bit weird. You can see some on youtube in college games. I am sure some players however, especially younger ones, would go for a full face protection if it was available just like many used helmet when they did not have to. Similarly, many would drop helmet if it was optional today. Hockey players are peculiar people... I think with face protection, you can be more effective. Shot blocking would improve, and high sticking penalties go away, and players would miss less time to face injuries. Count how many players missed  a shift or more due to high stick injury, face in the glass push, or puck to the face and how many ended up in the box for unintentional high stick. Got to be at least couple of dozens in just December. Things like that have changed outcomes of the games.  This is however part of the game just like sticks breakage and adds unpredictability to it which is an awesome thing imo.

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51 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

Fighting is available, it is just a bit weird. You can see some on youtube in college games. I am sure some players however, especially younger ones, would go for a full face protection if it was available just like many used helmet when they did not have to. Similarly, many would drop helmet if it was optional today. Hockey players are peculiar people... I think with face protection, you can be more effective. Shot blocking would improve, and high sticking penalties go away, and players would miss less time to face injuries. Count how many players missed  a shift or more due to high stick injury, face in the glass push, or puck to the face and how many ended up in the box for unintentional high stick. Got to be at least couple of dozens in just December. Things like that have changed outcomes of the games.  This is however part of the game just like sticks breakage and adds unpredictability to it which is an awesome thing imo.

The first thing high level young players do is remove full face protection the first chance they get. I've refereed summer college leagues and none of those guys wore full shields/cages. 

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On the topic of the danger of mixing cages and visors, I just watched a game last night between a US college and a Canadian college (Army vs. RMC) where all the RMC players except one wore only visors and all the Army players (obviously) wore full cages. There was a face-to-face collision and the RMC player took the cage to the face under his shield, pushing it up. They stopped the game a few minutes after he went to the bench so he could be helped off the (other side of the) ice with a presumed concussion. He was actually the one who'd stood the Army player up but took the worst of it, apparently because the cage caught him under his shield. He was still very wobbly a few minutes after the collision and needed every bit of the help he got to make it across the rink. The Army kid was fine.

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This was Jake McCabe's face after he hit Laine

C1mKsJwXcAI32fZ.jpg

Not sure if Laine's visor/helmet did the damage of if it was his own visor but if Laine had been wearing a mask or cage, the damage could have been much worse.

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NHL will never have full face cages.  Their main concern now is the  concussion. The last thing they want to do is give the player a further feeling of invincibility with a face mask. I think hockey is coming to the conclusion that the only way to avoid concussions is "active" safety: use proper technique and be aware of putting yourself in dangerous situations. You simply cannot design a helmet to eliminate concussions, as they often occur from the brain bouncing off the inside of the skull.

If you look at stats, head injuries have increased as equipment has improved.

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On 1/1/2017 at 3:55 PM, Kgbeast said:

In college leagues, they just wrestle and punch in the cages/bowls with their gloves... it is pretty entertaining to watch, but I do not think NHL is up for this.

Gloves have composite, used to be steel, thumbs,. You can REALLY hurt someone badly if you punch them with a glove on. It's misconduct, fine, suspension in the NHL or some combination of the three. 

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Howdy,

26 minutes ago, HarpGuy said:

Gloves have composite, used to be steel, thumbs,. You can REALLY hurt someone badly if you punch them with a glove on. It's misconduct, fine, suspension in the NHL or some combination of the three. 

Unless you're a goalie....


I get that its Hornqvist, but come on.  For that all he got was a 2 minute minor?  Really?

Mark

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54 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Unless you're a goalie....


I get that its Hornqvist, but come on.  For that all he got was a 2 minute minor?  Really?

Mark

It's actually a match penalty in the NHL:

51.3 Match Penalty - If, in the judgment of the Referee, a goalkeeper uses his blocking glove to punch an opponent in the head or face in an attempt to or to deliberately injure an opponent, a match penalty must be assessed.

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On 3/3/2017 at 7:35 AM, marka said:

Howdy,

Unless you're a goalie....


I get that its Hornqvist, but come on.  For that all he got was a 2 minute minor?  Really?

Mark

Ward should have been tossed, but Price did even worse one a couple of month ago and got a slap on the wrist as well. That said, I like the comment "maybe he should have punched his defense...". This was well placed.

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On 1/1/2017 at 0:34 PM, strosedefence34 said:

 

It depends on what kind of game you want.

There were only 1.7 milion views for game 6 of the finals. NBA gets 20 million plus. NFL reaches 100. So LeBron could get more views than NHL taking out his trash. Even bowling gets more ratings. No ESPN unless you have Mario. CBC obviously HNIC does well.

Traditionally it has been a blood sport i guess. All the youtube views are fights and hits. Most players are going to say it is part of the game to play maskless.

The players who play with masks will get hurt worse I think. Boarding, elbows and punches to the face would be part of the play insted of traditional fight.

U wanna see a fight. They are all goons anyway. It is all an insurance fraud. 

Good players play on ponds without masks when they are like 3 years old so it will not change.

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