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Nicholas G

Bauer 2X / 2X Pro

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Was in a shop this afternoon and came across these little guys. Really digging the new toe cap. Not a huge fan of all the bright neon yellow. 

 

4sHqAuf.jpg

qsiuPDf.jpg

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Thanks these are the first 2X (non-pro) pics I’ve seen in the wild. How much do they retail for? Could you compare to X900?

 

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They retail for 599 which I think is an excellent price. 

Key Upgrades – ACCELFLEX SYSTEM, Asymmetrical toe cap, Recoil tongue

Quarter Package – 3-D lasted Curv® composite Quarter with X-rib pattern and Comfort Edge padding

Lining Material – LOCK-FIT liner

Ankle Padding – Aero Foam+ memory Foam

Tongue – Recoil Tongue – Three piece 48oz felt tongue with injected metatarsal guard

Footbed – Lock-Fit footbed

Thermoformable – Anafform upper

Outsole – PRO TPU outsole

Blade holder – TUUK LIGHTSPEED EDGE

Runner – TUUK LS3 steel

Edited by Nicholas G

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$599 gets you a plastic outsole these days? Neat. 

Edited by Cavs019
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5 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

$599 gets you a plastic outsole these days? Neat. 

Whereas $599 gets you a one-piece boot from CCM. Bauer’s price point skates have become disappointing in recent years. 

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2 hours ago, jdvn said:

Whereas $599 gets you a one-piece boot from CCM. Bauer’s price point skates have become disappointing in recent years. 

Honestly, I am still a little skeptical of a one-piece boot being the "end game" for skate technology. Plenty of players use two-piece skates, including the best around; McDavid, Crosby, McKinnon, Kucherov, Hall, and many more. Do I think the technology is superior to a one-piece skate, yes. But there are also limitations when developing a one-piece skate which is why TRUE and CCM fit very differently. In the future, I imagine companies making a two-piece skate fused in the ankle section to allow for more mobility. This would allow them to dial in different stiffness specifications. The MAKO (RIP) and TRUE skate are the only ones I have seen so far moving in this direction

7 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

$599 gets you a plastic outsole these days? Neat. 

Does it really matter? It's not like 95% of players are going to really notice the difference. 

Edited by Nicholas G

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Its not so much the feel or noticing it - It matters in the sense that corner-cutting on materials while jacking up prices is a microcosm of everything wrong with the state of retail gear these days. 

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1 minute ago, Cavs019 said:

Its not so much the feel or noticing it - It matters in the sense that corner-cutting on materials while jacking up prices is a microcosm of everything wrong with the state of retail gear these days. 

Who is to say a composite material is any better or worse than pro level TPU? Lots of NHL players using TPU outsole and/or midsole. 

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In that case let’s charge $1199 for a Graf 703 or Reebok 9K and call it a day. You’re missing the point. 

Edited by Cavs019
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2 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

In that case let’s charge $1199 for a Graf 703 and call it a day. You’re missing the point. 

Really?

You charge by perceive value and the customer’s willingness to pay.  There are options.  If its as big a deal as you are making it then people will vote with their wallets.

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You’re also missing the point.

The skates will sell no doubt. I may even buy a pair myself. I just find it hilarious that a $599 skate doesn’t contain a feature that has been standard on high end skates for over 20 years. 

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2 minutes ago, Cavs019 said:

You’re also missing the point.

The skates will sell no doubt. I may even buy a pair myself. I just find it hilarious that a $599 skate doesn’t contain a feature that has been standard on high end skates for over 20 years. 

Perhaps it's a feature they have determined has limited benefits? Like driving a 1000hp car on the 10 freeway in Los Angeles during the week rush hour. They did lower the price point considerably so they had to cut cost in some places. Using cheaper steel and a non composite outsole seems like a decent combination for cutting costs hut still having a very performant skate. 

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5 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Perhaps it's a feature they have determined has limited benefits? Like driving a 1000hp car on the 10 freeway in Los Angeles during the week rush hour. They did lower the price point considerably so they had to cut cost in some places. Using cheaper steel and a non composite outsole seems like a decent combination for cutting costs hut still having a very performant skate. 

Not the best analogy. That 1000hp car isn't made for traffic, really not even meant to be used as a daily driver. 

Whats a composite outsole cost Bauer per skate, a few bucks? It's obvious Bauer is cutting corners in areas where those buying it won't care and/or won't notice a difference. 

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10 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Not the best analogy. That 1000hp car isn't made for traffic, really not even meant to be used as a daily driver. 

Whats a composite outsole cost Bauer per skate, a few bucks? It's obvious Bauer is cutting corners in areas where those buying it won't care and/or won't notice a difference. 

Yeah. My analogy sucked. I'll be the first to admit it. Too much sun, sitting in the pool, and margaritas. Clouds the mind. 

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7 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Yeah. My analogy sucked. I'll be the first to admit it. Too much sun, sitting in the pool, and margaritas. Clouds the mind. 

You poor lamb, I’m sure we all feel sorry for you. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Cavs019 said:

Its not so much the feel or noticing it - It matters in the sense that corner-cutting on materials while jacking up prices is a microcosm of everything wrong with the state of retail gear these days. 

I’m not convinced about that. Bauer custom does not cost much more than stock, and you get a custom skate. I have 2s Pro, and I am impressed, very nice skates, well worth the money albeit expensive. However, I do find the pricing structure odd. The actual cost of each ‘feature’ such as comfort edge and injected facing can’t be much, a few dollars, and yet the 2s Pro costs a fortune compared to a mid range skate. I can only assume I am paying development costs, and higher overheads due to lower unit sales of high end models.

My LHS tells me that profit margins on high end skates are low,  much lower than for mid range skates. They won’t keep them in stock, as unsold ones will cost them money, and they don’t make enough profit overall if any. 

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1 hour ago, stick9 said:

Not the best analogy. That 1000hp car isn't made for traffic, really not even meant to be used as a daily driver. 

Whats a composite outsole cost Bauer per skate, a few bucks? It's obvious Bauer is cutting corners in areas where those buying it won't care and/or won't notice a difference. 

If people buying it won’t notice a difference then it was the right move.  I can’t imagine, as a product manager, trying to make the case to use a more expensive approach that I can’t argue will have any effect on performance or sales.

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T

21 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Was in a shop this afternoon and came across these little guys. Really digging the new toe cap. Not a huge fan of all the bright neon yellow. 

 

4sHqAuf.jpg

qsiuPDf.jpg

Toe cap on the 2X Pro is fantastic. There’s no room at all for Powerfoot. I used the powerfoot in my 1X but the powerfoot won’t fit in the 2X pro I used the thin piece only. I believe 2X has same toe cap as 2X pro. A lot of people hating on the yellow on the 2X pro, I think it looks great and I got a custom pair so I can’t speak for retail but it’s the most comfortable best performing skate I’ve ever worn.

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6 hours ago, Leif said:

My LHS tells me that profit margins on high end skates are low,  much lower than for mid range skates. They won’t keep them in stock, as unsold ones will cost them money, and they don’t make enough profit overall if any. 

Margins for top tier skates is terrible and you move fewer high ends skates compared to mid-range models. I won't stock anything more costly than a Supreme 2S or Vapor x800 (Vapor 2X) and with CCM the JS490, Tacks 9080 and Ribcor 78K. If a customer wants to spend 1K on skates I always recommend they go custom since its only slightly more cost but the benefits are well worth it. 

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22 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

Honestly, I am still a little skeptical of a one-piece boot being the "end game" for skate technology. Plenty of players use two-piece skates, including the best around; McDavid, Crosby, McKinnon, Kucherov, Hall, and many more. Do I think the technology is superior to a one-piece skate, yes. But there are also limitations when developing a one-piece skate which is why TRUE and CCM fit very differently. In the future, I imagine companies making a two-piece skate fused in the ankle section to allow for more mobility. This would allow them to dial in different stiffness specifications. The MAKO (RIP) and TRUE skate are the only ones I have seen so far moving in this direction

Does it really matter? It's not like 95% of players are going to really notice the difference. 

I'm not skeptical. Pros use stuff that they're comfortable with and don't typically like to change. Plenty of players in the league using one piece skates. Ovechkin being one of them.

I've worn both two piece and one piece and definitely notice a change in performance going to a one piece. Feel the ice a lot better than with a two piece.

But different people have preferences and that's fine though.

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3 hours ago, Hockeymom27 said:

I haven’t seen these in stores yet , where were you?

Las Vegas Ice Center

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1 hour ago, Hockeymom27 said:

Thank you. That’s no where near us but nice to know they will be around soon. 

My stores in Seattle, WA just got them this week. We are putting them on the floor the beginning of next week. I assume other stores have either got their shipments or they are en route currently. Might want to check your local stores to see when they will be getting them in. 

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I have to say, irregardless of actual performance benefits, Bauer just feels like they're falling behind CCM from an average consumer's standpoint.

With CCM removing unnecessary materials and improving their one-piece tech generation after generation, the new Vapors look so outdated. So much extra stitching, layered materials, etc.

Even if the one-piece benefit is overstated at the moment, there's no denying that CCM is putting R&D money to improve their technology every year. Compared to Bauer pushing out the same CURV composite every year, I'm really happy with what CCM is doing. Bauer didn't even want to put any soft comfort edge padding on their 2S model last year.

If you can fit equally well into Vapor and Jetspeed, why would you opt for Vapors at this point? Would you ever pick the 2X over the FT490?

Edited by BlueNux
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