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Good idea, maybe I should have done this ages ago, but the LHS and me thought things would get fixed quickly. Now, weeks later I am just waiting to find out when I will receive another pair. Yes, I posted the "story" too many times, perhaps 3X, when I realize it now, but it seemed many just did not see there were at least 2 issues. 1) One was the size of the skate and nobody here can answer this one except for True 2) Why are holders riveted incorrectly if done by hand and then not even corrected when they are sent back the second time with the same two issues? That's why I made a specific call to True and asked how holders are mounted, by hand or on an assembly line (at times) and was told categorical "by hand"! Everyone knows the problem and I thank Vet88 for sharing the photos, I have many more photos, but do not have a way to get them on this forum as I indicated not long ago and JR responded. A member recently asked again where are my photos. PM me and you will get all my photos! I see Vet88 used Imgur and perhaps that is something I need, but let's end this now. I don't want anymore abuse for just posting a problem. I was really reluctant to post anyway and if you search way back I had asked a few pertinent questions about what can be expected from True after I had got my first pair, but never revealing why as I did not to broadcast the problem and did not want to make any waves, now I am involved in a full fledged hurricane! Shut this down please! Thanks for all the help though, each and everyone meant the best and I thank you all! SMU

First and second skate were the same. The second skate had no corrections except for toe stuffing. Now I await another or maybe it will be the same one again!

That being said it would be a laugh, but still I know nothing at all, some communication would have helped immensely! But, you are forgetting something, the holders were misaligned and not just that they were slightly latterly mounted on both sides, although not to a great amount. For an over pronator like me they should have been medially mounted. Apart from the errors, what can anybody say after they were returned the same way the second time?

Vet88, You are dead on, I would have like to have had some response from True of what went wrong so at least I would know. Not just once, but this is the third time! Just getting a second skate back with only half of a fix makes me feel really annoyed and wanted to call True directly, but I respected my LHS as they have been so good I did not want to start a war in their name. Not being told of what has gone wrong is the worse thing a retailer can do, in my opinion. Now I sit here nearly two months and know nothing, that's very frustrating and waiting for a third pair makes me very, very anxious as to what can I expect now, instead of knowing what the problem was and what is being done about it. I would be on the phone fast if it were not for my great LHS!

Read on! The first pair of Skates I received had insoles or foot-beds reading #7. With the second pair with and nothing changed except for some stuffing inside the toe box the foot-bed reads #6. Is this just a coincidence? "If the shoe fits, wear it" I am sure there will be a good explanation about this. 1) When my first pair of skates were ordered specific Instructions were given about what was needed to fit my small narrow foot, in particular my narrow heel area and that skates in the LHS were tried on and True was told that my Bauer size 5 D skates fit well, but were too wide and I needed a skate for a narrow foot, thus the reason for getting Trues as well as for pronation issue. I even tried on a 4.5 Tack on and that fit except it was a D width and was too wide in the heel area as well. Just from this description alone a better pair of skates could have been made without a scan! My toe came nowhere near the toe cap and I could not feel anything and after lacing up they just felt huge. I guessed, by pulling my toe up that I was just about one inch from the end of the toe box! Plus, the holders and rivets were crooked as well and both blades had a bend in them from the misaligned holders. Why should this be even happening!? To understand how long these skates were I have photos with two fingers touching the end of the heel bottom with two fingers and my foot in the skate, also I could slip the skates of and on and still have the laces through all the eyelets. Try that one and see where it gets you! I have photos of my Bauer siting beside the True skate and it would blow your mind away! I had heel wedges in my Bauer skates that were 2" wide exactly and I used these to off-set pronation as they had a 1º slope from one side to the other. My heel area in the True skates were over 3/8" wider and I am being kind. We asked for a narrow heel area! Even my Superfeet could be slid from side to side showing how wide these skates were to mine. I felt that the skate were closer to a 7 than anything else and that was my guess until the next sentence. The foot-beds that came with the Trues were there, but it was not until I got home did I realize the number 7 was on the bottom, what else could that mean other than a size 7 skate. More on this in the part where I receive the second skate These are sent back stating the issues and I had said to my LHS I don't want skates that are too long for me, I want as short as possible and I certainly don't want stuffing in the toe to make me feel like they fit. As I have said they could have made a better pair by just what they were told about my old Bauer's that were perfect fit, but too wide! 2) Second Pair and I cringe! I get my second pair of skates and I can see immediately that they are the EXACT same skates! The same look and feel with the holders still bent along with the blades, but I tried them on for the sake of the LHS. Right away I could feel something in the toe area, but not much, but it did feel a little better as I could feel my toes just about touching something. As soon as soon as I started to lace my heel was pulled back immediately and the toe feel was gone in a split second, but this did not lock the heel in. It was sloppy and walking around they still felt very large and for some reason the left felt larger. The skate must have had something added to it, but what I was not sure we did not go further with it. It was my thoughts they were going back regardless because they still were not my size etc. This time, along with the with the LHS I looked at the bottom of the insole and now it says size 6 was this just coincidence? True says they do not go by foot size. Added - I forgot to say that I had no idea or proof that something was added to the toe until I got home and was playing with the tongue that can be removed with the Velcro and then noticed that I could feel a piece of tape. hanging. It was lose so I pulled at it and out came two spongy rubber pieces about two inches long by an inch wide and held there with masking tape of all things. I have a photo of these with a ruler beside them. If a fix was going to be made I would make it much, much better than this, it is as bad as the crooked holders! True now tells you that the size you pay for is the determined by the size of the holder that gets mounted on your boot. It is funny, but I usually get the Junior discount for having a small foot. With this True boot, with an extra long toe and larger and huge holder (I am told), takes a skate blade 8 mm longer than my Bauer blade. They now can say that it is a Senior skate. If the skates had of been my size and everything was OK I would not have minded paying a Senior price knowing I would rid myself of my pronation issue, but not now! My skate should have been shorter without an extra length of toe to accommodate a senior blade and as you can see I feel that they just screwed up completely. To sell an unfit skate is negligence and could have consequences if I had hurt myself on the ice by all these errors. I did get on the ice with them and they were too long and difficult to skate in, being too big and with the blades being warped, but I just took it real careful and then left the ice. I could hear the blades make a funny sound when stopping indicating they were warped or bent! This was confirmed by using a straight edge. I have been told directly from a person at True that holders are put on by hand as in "custom made" and not an assembly line. How do holders get on crooked with rivets crooked as well if a real person was doing his or her job correctly or are some done on an assembly line? Now going back a third time is a real downer, I have literally lost 12 games that I could have really enjoyed if the first pair of skates were properly made. I am frightened now just to see a third pair and wonder if it is going to fit right.

I should have known by now that people are more aware of pronation issues and what Superfeet do for them, I will be aware next time. I had the same issue that is in this post not having a great time with the Carbons although I understand some find them great!

Did you know that Superfeet along with a touch of arch support has built in posting on the medial (inside towards your other leg) in the heel The arch gives some support, but the trick with posting is to get your ankle to stand straighter in the heel-bed, thus eliminating minor over pronation problems and it does work. Take a close and careful look at the base of the Superfeet heel area at eye level looking towards the front and you will notice that the bottom of the Superfeet have fluted edges or jagged edges in the bottom of the heel area all around in a horseshoe like manner. The inside edged will show that it has slightly higher material on the this inside edge. This is specifically there to help with pronation by artificially correcting your ankle to pronate less by a small amount because this higher ridge is making your ankle stand straighter up in the heel pocket and skate. It is called posting. Look at your Superfeet and see the higher inside (medial) and then look up "pronation and posting" and you will find out I am correct. Orthotics are one piece deal that incorporates the arch support and the posting all in one! Superfeet do work well for those that do not have a great deal of problems and they are refundable withing 3 months if you don't like them.

Well I can say it has not True has not done so well for me over the past month with two pairs sent back with issues that I don't dare repeat again here and I am now waiting intrepidly for my third pair! What else can I say.

Hey guys I see that I have an account with Flickr and Imgur, but never used them! I will have to find out what to do and maybe I can just post one photo showing the True and the Bauer together! Cheers

I had the 246 blade on the Bauer size 5 and the blade on the new boot was 254 I believe, but there was a huge difference in the overall length with that toe box than needed the stuffing. By the looks of it that might make my skate a size 6, but the insole had 7 marked on it. When they stuffed the toe the boots came back with a size 6 insole this time, but the only difference was the insertion of the dense foam in the toe. Same size skate, but they can change the size by the amount of filler that can be added to the toe. For my third pair I asked for a "regular" length skate similar to the Bauer with the 246 blade. With regard to the width I am at a loss as to how they managed to make me a wide boot and in particular 3/8" larger on the back sole (and complete sole) when in fact they were told I have a narrow foot and the size 5 Bauer were too wide so make them smaller. At this stage all I can hope is that they fit right so I don't have to keep posting/fixing my Bauers like I did again today! My game was about 60% so I could say not bad considering what I have gone through sometimes. There were times I would step on the ice for a feel of the skates then step off and go home.

Thanks! Must be thinking of a different forum.

What's up? I just realized I could not upload and I thought I could before. Others have photos? What an I doing wrong. I am sure someone would love to see my size 5 Bauers next to my True skates and now waiting for my third pair?

Lary54, I did not mean to upset you or anybody, I was trying to be funny and just thought I would give "the once over again" with what I can't believe has to be a joke played on me by someone at True. Otherwise what the heck could have happened to quality control? Meanwhile waiting for a third pair having really lost over 8 games so far. I did have the too big Trues, but then had to fall back on a bad pair of skates that I have torn apart. Again, my apologies and also for not getting my photos up yet, I will have to get to work on that it is just that I am not the best with getting my photos up to MSH. Cheers

We definitely did not ask for anything that would even resemble something larger in fact I was going smaller as I need a narrow skate and there are not many around. We even indicated that I was able to get a 4.5 Tack on last summer, but the heel pocket was still too larger so we were going smaller! The LHS and me were looking for footprint that was as small as possible and paid up front the Junior size 5 amount as required by True. They said nothing otherwise about my skates and they may now be a 6 or a size 7! They say that they no longer go by shoe size as really the make the skates to fit the person and you can't give a figure for that unless it happened to match exactly a foot size. However, I have my doubts given that I definitely received someone's else's boot by mistake, but wait, it gets better, there stock insole had a tiny sticker on the bottom of my skate indicating a # 7 for a size 7 I would take it! That's about the size I would have guessed I got by the initially time it was put on my foot just to see how they felt to trying them out on the ice. As you know these skates were returned with all that I have already told you along with indicating that I take a small boot and I want a shorter toe box, nothing else will do and of course I need the heel box etc to be smaller as well. I have never had this size of a skate blade before. Th Bauer was a 246 mm and the True was was 254 mm or 8 mm longer if I am correct. But, wait, it gets even better! This time, as I have said before, the skates come back to me, not just back, but the identical skates with came back with absolutely nothing fixed as far as the hardware issues go. But wait it gets better again ! Trying them on initially I feel my toes almost touching the end cap but not like most where you feel it and may think the skate may be too small, but once kicked back and tightened up the foot is drawn back well into the heel pocket and you no longer touch the end of the toe box. Wait, it gets better, guess what?! the only thing that was done to the skate to make me feel my toes ever so gently was that they used masking tape to apply foam to the end of the inside of the toe boxes. And, wait! It gets better, they left the old insoles, the #7s in the box however, now I have a newer pair that are in the box as well and have the number 6 on the bottom this time. Since the toe cavity has been shortened by some very unorthodox method of placing padding in the toe instead of remaking the skates to fit properly the add the foam and now a pair of insoles that now fit the skate! Wait, there is more, but you will have to wait for me to get my photos up! Wait, there is more was saying that my now deceased nephew used to say, he died about 2013 just after playing hockey, some on the forum would have known of him, just 44 years old!

Regarding the True skates I really don't mind the weight at all, they maybe heavier than my X60 or X90 Bauer skates, but they feel fine to me. I had to wear the two recent pairs of Trues that I received on the ice just so we could confirm that they were unacceptable. Weight was not a problem, but I could not comment on the feel as they were too large. Once you have your gear on they skates did not look bad at all, even off my feet I was not looking for flashy skates so in that area I was satisfied. I did get hit in the foot with a good shot and literally felt nothing and I thought that was great! If I can just get a pair that fits me like a glove I will feel like a guy that has finally gotten over his pronation issues from the past 7 to 10 years and looking forward to getting on the ice and not having to worry about pronation issues something that I had to work with on a game by game basis.

I cleaned up my post a bit, you may want to re-read it. I must have been half asleep when posting, but I will get some photos up today.

Revised: I will send some photos tomorrow of my first pair of new True skates that we’re a joke. Not only about 2 sizes too large they are just huge in the width when I clearly needed a narrow heel pocket area skate. These were sent back to be remade and to be made shorter as they were excessively long, I could not even feel my toe anywhere near the end of the skate when first put on. I had other issues as well that were not even adjusted let alone no remake that should have happened because of the long length of the boot making them hard to skate in a skate 2 sizes too large. They also had rivets as if they went in as if they came off a maligned assembly line and the rivets were not parallel making the holders and blades crooked. My right knee actually acted up because of this. Now they get the skates sent back a second time all within two weeks of the FIRST pair pointing out that these are not my small sizes 5 skates, way to long and too wide with the other holder / rivets as well problems. I heard that True will stuff the toes with some dense foam if there is excessive room in the toe box area to make them feel like smaller skates they do fit and I asked specifically not to have stuffing in an already too long skate that does not fit. The skates have to be remade as well as the other issues I was complaining about. Theses skates were a joke. I assumed a new pair of skates that would fit my narrow foot and had no other issues would be returned, but this was not the case. I received the exact same pair back with the crooked holders etc and to reduce the extra length 6 mm dense foam was taped (masking tape) into the end of the toe box that fell out upon feeling that area. With the extra foam they did feel smaller, but changed nothing in that they were way too long and wide and should have been remade from scratch. Again, all the other issues were ignored except to stuff the toe box. By stuffing the toe area their insoles size (printed on the bottom) went from a size 7 to a size 6! They have now went back for the third time and I hope "third time lucky"! Wait for tomorrow for the photos and my True skates with my Bauer size 5 beside the True skates and more.

Since I destroyed my X80 or 90 with the medial holder move I had to replace them with a good used pair of size 5D Bauer Junior S-180 because the Trues did not fit. I heated the sides to try and reduce the ankle and heel space, but I was still pronating and now I have inserted my wedges ( 0 < 1º wedges) and having someone watch my knee bend (knees just over the toes) from behind to see when I was stable, that is have the tendon guards follow the calf muscle and should mean that I am no over my center of gravity. Well, I am not quite there yet, not dialed in and getting really tired of always playing with the skates. I would have loved to keep the too large Trues just for the ability to take my pronation away. I am off to play again today and as always I have to wonder what they are going to feel like when I first step on the ice. I have taken a couple of more wedges (these are from Australia for bikers as they have problems with pronation while riding bicycles). Depending upon which way you flip them they cab be used for Over supinators as well, but Gawd I don't want to go through this anymore. this is the 5th week of hockey and I should have had a good set of skates from True before I started the year instead of the double mistakes that were sent. I just hope I can get my third set back quickly with no issues (oh please!!!). I keep wondering though, am I going to have problems down the line when the skates start to beak down. I am light and only playing twice a week maybe that will help in the long run. At 69 now, how much more time do I have. I hope ten years at least!

Thanks for the link anyway, it goes the way as we have suggested earlier with pulling up at the navicular your foot is placed into the foam material. With YouTube now I could not even download it if I wanted to. When you move holders you have to move all the rivet holes by the same amount, so just mark them off, that is if your holders are already in alignment. I have had a number that were not including my recent True skates! My LHS has done this for me to my old skates then I have done it on my own, but found it difficult getting my sweet spot in any event. I am reluctant to do it again as it does start a lot of wear and tear on your out-sole.

Thanks for the comment about Rob, but I am in the hands of my LHS and don't wan to try and tell them what to do. He definitely knows my problems and I thought he made it clear what my issues were. I will talk with him tomorrow (Saturday depending on what time it is and where you are) and get it done. The call may have to wait until Monday I guess. Thanks once again

Again, my apologies, I was short with you and usually not this way at all. I have photos that I would love to pass along just after I got the new skates the first time, they were not my skates for sure, the scanner could not make such a large error in the width from my size 5 Bauer to the 6 or 7 that I received. I say it this way as on the bottom of the insole had a 7 on the first pair and I would believe it could have been a size 7 when you see it next to my size 5 Bauer. Then I get the next pair back with the dense foam in the toe box and now have an insole that indicates a size 6. They tell us they do not go by sizes! But, both skates they sent back to me are identical with no other issues corrected at all except for the stuffing in the toe. If they did not read our problems perhaps somebody is not reading the scanning material properly. As you know pronation is my issue and what do True offer now as normal fixing, just the stiffness? What about if it is more difficult would I get automatic molding from the scan? Would you explain this ones as how they can read the scanner done this way. You must be right that they can and the rest of us are questioning it, but if we understand it then that's it. The boxes are another good idea, but where do I fit. I am not sure if just a small amount of arch lift or I should say heel lift will do mine along with the stiff boot. Should ny LHS call Rob? Thanks!

Sorry for that, I am trying to fix my lawnmower and do the leaves (mulch) for the last time this year and I am also frustrated that True did nothing with my first very bad pair of skates I received and then nothing the second time? I would really like your thoughts on the pronation issue and a better understanding of just what best way pronation can be addressed so it is done properly a third time? Cheers!

Short and sweet, we not only sent the first scan. But also a second scan after getting my “fixed pair” back with no corrections to my holders at all, crooked and misaligned with the blade bowed because of it. True made no comments about the very wide heel pocket either when I have a narrow feet. The space was abnormally large, not to mention that I did not want a skate that was too long which this one was. We get the skates back, a first and second time and never any mention that the scan could be off and as well no changes were made to the ill fitting hardware, let alone the excessive length and width of the skates! Now the are going back with a third time with instructions I hope they read this time. Did you hear me? This is the third pair going back!

Thanks, I had Rob's email, but it maybe old by now. Please PM me with it so I will have the proper address.  I am intrigued that you had your holders shifted medially as Scott once told me (I have that email) only in "extreme circumstances" would they move the holders. So what would extreme mean to you? How bad were your symptoms, how do your skates work now and how was the the amount of change determined? Has your pronation changed any? (there is more below on pronation). I have watched the video many times and have kept a copy of this and two others that were still available. One is where Scott tells his story of why he started to make skates and it simply was that he had flat feet and saw the need not only to make something for himself, but for others, it seemed that this was the predominant area of concern, over-pronatioto. Since I have pronation issues this caught my interest with great enthusiasm with Scott appearing to be promoting this aspect plus the perfect fit and now that I know I need a narrow skates "the perfect fit" is even more important. Maybe VH still has these lasts who knows or who would tell, nobody unless VH/True say otherwise, I guess! Back to the video(s), these are why I wanted the VH skate to start with. Now I am not sure what you do for over-pronation. The very poorly made pair that I got (twice) is not a true (sorry) interpretation of the skate I received, in that it was so far off the mark of a well made skate it was impossible to give any report except "bad"! I saw nothing else in the boot for pronation except stiff sidewalls that apparently worked since it did away with my pronation issues, the couple of times I tried them. Although, the wide and large skate with holder/blade issues were not the best to try. When talking with Rob on pronation there was at least three things that could be done, 1) a built in orthotic was available, 2) the "send me the foam impression box" and 3) we will move the holders in "extreme circumstances" and that is a quote from memory, but I do have the email if it needs to be checked. I would have thought they could figure out where your center of gravity should be and move the holders accordingly, but maybe that is too difficult to do or time consuming. Maybe things have changed since late 2017 after True took over. I can't remember now if just the stiff boot was mentioned, but it seems to work, but for how long before that breaks down? Again, I bring up the scanner method that has your foot in the flatfooted pose, this has been mentioned by a few in this forum and in particular by one member I have been closely following and he had made the comment some time ago about the problem with the scanner giving any results other than a flatfooted image of your foot. How can a foot-bed be made from this unless comments are sent along and even then how accurate would they be unless the "foam box" was used? i I Googled this "How does a poditrist make a mold for orthotics by using the boxes of foam" and got some good results, there are three videos that are set up part way down the page and I selected the middle one, but the sound won't work, but the explanation does. The other videos do things in a different way, but all do something to make the arch leave an impression and not that of a flat foot! I can't see how a scanner can be any help with pronation issues, they are done flat-footed thus useless in my opinion and other more skilled in this area than me! Cheers!

Well I want a pair of skates that fits me well plus to fix my pronation issue that I have been fighting for over 10 years. When you could speak with Rob you knew what you were going to get. But, now I need to know how the pronation issue is addressed if at all except the stiff boot that did help me the couple of times I had the Trues on. Can the sole have a raised arch, can we still have Foam Shoe boxes sent to us or does the walls of the skate do it all and then break down later. As I mentioned and another member did also, how does the scanner give a proper arch support for over pronation when your foot is scanned flatfooted? That's what you get with the scanner, I don't know how they can make that work backwards into an arch!