smu

It looks like my post got buried above. I'll keep this short regarding the need for a pitch change; - Rob of VH said to me he could easily build a shim into the skate or have it outside so you can change it to suit your preferences. Alan

Sorry then, I have not been following this topic for awhile, I am not sure. Also, since I have not purchased yet I guess I am not in the best position to answer.

Do you really mean the holder?

I have found that when the Canadian dollar was on par or better (it hardly ever is) we never seemed to get any benefit from that in Canada. That's all I got!

Thanks Larry, I spent most of my life asking myself why do I need extra-sharp skates and not until 6 or 7 years ago that I had finally figured it out after a lot of research. First it was outside shims, then orthotics and now posting my medial heel area using the older Superfeet that incorporate a small amount of posting anyway.. It is so nice to be in control of your edges and have a fast glide on the ice with a flatter ROH. I will be ordering mine in late July for September so the warranty will start then. I only have until the end of March for hockey and I just miss a month because I sprained my neck crashing headfirst into the boards to the left of the goalie, and glad to have it not serious. I was on a breakaway and I deked right the went left to my back-hand and then right next thing I knew I was that I had hit the boards with my head just over my left eye area as the helmet made a good chaffing mark on my forehead. The first thing I did was to wiggle my hands and feet! The goalie told me later that he tried poke-checking me and I tripped over his stick. My neck is still sore and I expect to miss more games until my neck settles down. I have been wanting the VH skates for over a year now, but before I know it July will be here and my order will be going in. Cheers!

My apologies! It should get sorted though.

Regarding hollow, before I realized I was over pronating I needed 1/4" cut, believe it or not. I never dreamed of doing any thing like what people said I should have. I needed the sharp skates so my legs would not slide out from under me. I never knew why until a few years ago. I then had orthotics made because I learned that I was over pronating. After this I could immediately go to 5/8-1/2" ROH, something I did not even dream about. With 1/4" ROH I was literally cutting through the ice and feeling the burn in my thighs a hell of a lot of work! I was pooped at the end of a shift. Now I am on top of the ice more with my COG over my edges and holding my edges and skating more fluently and far easier. With the VH Skates any pronation issue is corrected with a built in orthotic putting you over your center of gravity and likewise your edges. Alan

I was told that the mold of the skate bottom imparts your pronation as if the Superfeet were built in. If you liked Superfeet you most likely had some over pronation.

I believe your steel size is stamped on your holder thus they go hand in hand, you get what you need with "holder size".

I have read and vet 88 has alluded to an article earlier to the effect that if your holders are mounted a little to the rear it also makes your pitch move forward as you are already further over your normal pitch thus allowing, hopefully in your case, less lace bite and better forward crossovers. This can be argued, but it may make no difference in this thread, but will change the pitch no matter.

Hope the general public can still buy skates, VH was doing a wonderful service to get great skates to the general public, as well as the Pros and lets not forget Rob and give him some Kudos with all his hard work! More importantly the skates just did not come off the assembly line but were hand made for each and everyone of us! If I can make a suggestion on many of us over pronators please bring back the MLX medial/lateral shift holders, I will be the first to buy!. If the Figure skaters need to be fitted with their boots and blades, so they are over their center of gravity, why not hockey players. It will help many, many people all you have to look at the statistics on pronation in the general public. Best of luck TRUE, I hope to do business with you! Alan

I am unsure if I corrected my position how VH corrects for over pronation. I thought that a custom skate would have the blade centered, but In an email, Rob indicated that the boot is made to accommodate the lack of an "orthotic" and that would work. The blade won't be moved unless there is a severe over pronation problem. As I write this it sounds like I may have already posted this. Sorry to have made this mistake. Alan

I see what you mean! How about well spaced rivets and see how they work, if they don't suit have the rivets removed and file the holes to move the holders. The rivet holes would not have to be filled in with epoxy either. Alan

Kg, Thanks, I see what you mean now, all good information! I even used your comment in my post below to VET, but wrongly gave the credit to another member, sorry. Perhaps I can have VH only drill 6 holes or so and experiment with the skate from there. I will know quickly if I am not over my edges since it seems to be a ritual, every damn time, to check my edges as soon as I step on the ice. I do notice minimal changes back and forth 1 mm or so from game to game, but is it in my head, the ice is different, my pelvis moving or just in my head? Now I see some light with your style using the file (that was mentioned before) and the diagram that Vet88 reminded of, that he gives the link for as well. I don't need a full course of T-nuts for the holder just a few and experiment. I sure wish I had that MLX set up though! Thanks - Alan

Hi Allan, thought of you a lot as I posted, thinking about all the different things I seemed to be dealing with & discussing with you. I have that article listed in you first paragraph and was one of the fist times understandings the whole issue. Looking at it again I now understand why the holder shifts medially the same amount of distance medially, meaning the line is not drawn from the mid heel as in a normal situation out to that new point on the outside of the big toe area. I wonder, with mild to moderate pronation, if I should move it. AllStar(I believe) said to go with the t-bolts, but ream out the boot with a cat-tail file so I can experiment moving the holders medialy. With your second paragraph I have been to a few doctors and they seem to know less than me at this point, but I will definitely do as you indicate. You almost have to get a doctor who is a hockey player, knows he has pronation issues, is an expert with skate issues and can sole the patient's problem. I had an orthopedic surgeon that was a great hockey player that could not help and others such as a chiropractor hockey player that I got my firs orthotics from but can't say there is any correlation to my sciatica with some pelvis movement to skating problems. I have discussed it with others and there is one hockey pro that is posting here, but not on this problem if my memory serves me correct. I will go further though, thanks! I did have the new Carbon Superfeet on and I need no extra correction and had a good game indicating that my pronation can't be that bad! The problem I did have was my left foot felt funny and I was not up to my 100%. I will take another read of your email to make sure I did not miss something, I just happen to be in a rush and can't reply to others until tomorrow, it is only 2:pm now but won't be back until way past midnight. BTW, as you know from our discussions VH will go quit away to do what you ask when it comes to ordering, but Rob did say they will only move the blade id the pronation is severe, otherwise the correction is made into the boot. Nice to talk with you again! One last thing, before theses new Superfeet I felt like giving up with taking my skates off 2 or 3 times during the game putting inserts in trying to have a decent game. Talk later - Alan

Kgbeast, 1. If I were to use an outside lift on the medial side and placed in the front that's all that would be needed, nothing in the back, or as you say if you are anal, both sides in the back. Would the double shim in the back be less stress or twist on the holder? 2. Thanks for the information on the movement of the holders and how to make the holes on the skates rather than the holder. 3. I have just used new Carbon Superfeet and they have removed my problem, but my left foot still does not feel like it used to, but I am over me edges, Perhaps it is a boot issue or related to my ongoing sciatica and possible minimal pelvis movement, but I cannot find any information relative to this. 4. I mentioned that VH are willing to put all T-nuts in the holders, I could not understand why the Bont wedges could not be used and just slid under the the holders? 5, Is it best to have the blades mounted under your COG or do wedges and orthotics do just as good? Cheers - Alan

Thanks everyone for your input, please do not stop posting on this thread, the more I hear from you the more I know, good or bad. With the number of suggestions I have has led me to some confusion over the best thing to do, like the Bont wedges won't work or yes you can move the holder over and no you can't use T-nuts, etc.. I like the "get an old pair of MLX skates" with the moveable holders. Oh, if I only could, but they never made as junior model anyway. I even wrote the 2nd owner of MLX after Scott Horne's involvement, (I guess). I did not know any of this up to this point. This man's name was Mike Cunningham if I recall correctly. Too bad Easton did not see the potential need of the moveable holder, I am sure they cut their costs by not adding the moveable holder into their skates. I may have had a pair of those now if the MLX holders were on the Mako. ***1. QUESTION: - Here is a question I have about COG (center of gravity) and moving holders. Is the best thing to do to help skaters with COG problems to have the blades directly under their center of gravity? If this was done, does it not follow that their issue is solved completely? As long as your blades are situated under your COG you should have excellent results, even if you start to pronate more? But, maybe if your center of gravity changes with more or less pronation, or more or less body weight and posture, perhaps this does affect your COG and the need of changing your holders once again. Thanks again for the input, I have to collect all the points discussed in this and other threads on one sheet of paper and take another hard look at the problem. It is funny just as I wrote that last word "problem" I often wondered what is happening with all the other people that must have issues like mine "out there"? BTW, one day about 4 years ago I had the privilege of speaking with *Sean Skinner by phone about skate and foot issues. He would often hold camps for the pros and it was his opinion that even before the players got on the ice he could spot the players that had ill fitting skates either by a pronation issues or just a bad skate problems that the player just worked through. Sean said they made as far as the did by learning to cope with the skates they had, but did convey to those players their particular problems and most likely holding them back. *(Reference - Skinner Hockey Inc., Google his name and see his resume and instructional videos) Keep it coming, more than myself is learning from this topic! Cheers - Alan

I really know about these and I could cry! They had discontinued them or sold the business before I knew the existed. What a wonderful way to solve all the pronator problems. Here is the solution and then Easton buys the skate and does not use them. Anyway, as far as the MLX goes they only sold size 6 or 7 up and I took a 5 Bauer (7 shoe). As I said and I will say it again, I could cry knowing what could have been done. At least some people out there know there are issues with pronation, but no major manufacturer is doing anything about it. As I understand there are many more over pronators than are those with near perfect feet! I did not know that Scott Horne was involved with the MLX skate, I wonder if VH can do the same for their skate, but the patent was probably sold as well? I should ask but then there is the size issue, patents and lots of costs. My head is starting to spin with all the alternatives that I can do, yet I am told I have to be careful todo it! I am now at a standstill using my original Superfeet and adding shims inside the skate, I wish it were easier. Even though I really could not afford it I would pay a heck of a lot more if I could get into a skate and play with confidence having myself over my center of balance. Thanks for the wonderful photo, although I have seen it before. I think I will end the post now with lots of thanks and then go to bed crying. ;) Alan

Why would you want to change the height, would it not twist the holder and cause more problems? SMU - Alan

Note my edit from Rivets to T-Nuts being Robs suggestion. Alan

Mimizk, it was Rob that said it could be done, the T-nuts that is. The wedges do not go from side to side, if that is what you mean, they just have to reach and go under the holder a small amount to give the correction. I am glad you have no problem with yours, but one other member on the VH thread does thus my uncertainty especially since there is no one near me to do the fitting nor the 3D fitting. Also, why the difference in your thickness of wedges from back to front. The first time I had them done they were both equal. Thanks and keep up the talk, please! Regards, Alan