smu

Sorry then, I have not been following this topic for awhile, I am not sure. Also, since I have not purchased yet I guess I am not in the best position to answer.

Do you really mean the holder?

I have found that when the Canadian dollar was on par or better (it hardly ever is) we never seemed to get any benefit from that in Canada. That's all I got!

Thanks Larry, I spent most of my life asking myself why do I need extra-sharp skates and not until 6 or 7 years ago that I had finally figured it out after a lot of research. First it was outside shims, then orthotics and now posting my medial heel area using the older Superfeet that incorporate a small amount of posting anyway.. It is so nice to be in control of your edges and have a fast glide on the ice with a flatter ROH. I will be ordering mine in late July for September so the warranty will start then. I only have until the end of March for hockey and I just miss a month because I sprained my neck crashing headfirst into the boards to the left of the goalie, and glad to have it not serious. I was on a breakaway and I deked right the went left to my back-hand and then right next thing I knew I was that I had hit the boards with my head just over my left eye area as the helmet made a good chaffing mark on my forehead. The first thing I did was to wiggle my hands and feet! The goalie told me later that he tried poke-checking me and I tripped over his stick. My neck is still sore and I expect to miss more games until my neck settles down. I have been wanting the VH skates for over a year now, but before I know it July will be here and my order will be going in. Cheers!

My apologies! It should get sorted though.

Regarding hollow, before I realized I was over pronating I needed 1/4" cut, believe it or not. I never dreamed of doing any thing like what people said I should have. I needed the sharp skates so my legs would not slide out from under me. I never knew why until a few years ago. I then had orthotics made because I learned that I was over pronating. After this I could immediately go to 5/8-1/2" ROH, something I did not even dream about. With 1/4" ROH I was literally cutting through the ice and feeling the burn in my thighs a hell of a lot of work! I was pooped at the end of a shift. Now I am on top of the ice more with my COG over my edges and holding my edges and skating more fluently and far easier. With the VH Skates any pronation issue is corrected with a built in orthotic putting you over your center of gravity and likewise your edges. Alan

I was told that the mold of the skate bottom imparts your pronation as if the Superfeet were built in. If you liked Superfeet you most likely had some over pronation.

I believe your steel size is stamped on your holder thus they go hand in hand, you get what you need with "holder size".

I have read and vet 88 has alluded to an article earlier to the effect that if your holders are mounted a little to the rear it also makes your pitch move forward as you are already further over your normal pitch thus allowing, hopefully in your case, less lace bite and better forward crossovers. This can be argued, but it may make no difference in this thread, but will change the pitch no matter.

Hope the general public can still buy skates, VH was doing a wonderful service to get great skates to the general public, as well as the Pros and lets not forget Rob and give him some Kudos with all his hard work! More importantly the skates just did not come off the assembly line but were hand made for each and everyone of us! If I can make a suggestion on many of us over pronators please bring back the MLX medial/lateral shift holders, I will be the first to buy!. If the Figure skaters need to be fitted with their boots and blades, so they are over their center of gravity, why not hockey players. It will help many, many people all you have to look at the statistics on pronation in the general public. Best of luck TRUE, I hope to do business with you! Alan

I am unsure if I corrected my position how VH corrects for over pronation. I thought that a custom skate would have the blade centered, but In an email, Rob indicated that the boot is made to accommodate the lack of an "orthotic" and that would work. The blade won't be moved unless there is a severe over pronation problem. As I write this it sounds like I may have already posted this. Sorry to have made this mistake. Alan

JJ, I have a new thread on how to get holders centered for over pronators and have received one post so far. Months ago I asked Rob if he would put T-nuts in so I can have some recourse if I still have a pronation problem after getting the VH skate. This was before I learned that a pronation fix is a built in orthotic and if done remotely may not be the answer. With the T-Nuts I can simply loosen the nuts and slide "Bont" (google it) shims, it's a wonder Scott Van Horn did not suggest this as they are usually used for speed skaters! These shims can be stacked and they have slits in them so the can be slide under the bolts and then the holders tightened down. With some experimentation a good cure should be found. It has been so long since I first started to correspond with Rob that I had forgotten this. Recently Rob mentioned that they don't move holders unless there is an extreem pronation problem and that's not me, but I had forgotten my reasearch on these shims. i am really interested in your movement of your holders medially, how bad was your pronation issue? How much did you move your holders and how did you determine how much to move them over. Usually, in normal feet I understand that a line is drawn from the back of the mid heel up to and between the big tie and the next to it. Should not this same type of procedure be used, that is, your holders are centered in the back but are lined up more towards the 3rd tie perhaps just for the sake of an arguement. Perhaps just shifting them 1/8" together suits all? This would frighten me without more research that's whyci just joined 2 figure skating forums, but now that I remembered the Bont shims and your success I won't need them. How well are they working for you. Cheers, Alan

Thanks Larry for the pictures and advice, the more information the better. Alan

Thanks, yes please stay in touch later even I want to know what to do to make sure I have my COG over the blades, I hope I don't have to go there as I cannot afford it. I was just at my LHS and changed back to the regular Superfeet, at least I have had some success. The women that waited on me was great and all the new Carbon models were the same, in fact she just had used a pair but was still sliding. She supinates, the opposite of us. I indicated the new ones don't help her and the way the older ones are made they would not help a supinator in my mind. They are really made for over pronaters! I explain his the old ones work and why do the knew ones have the balance in the middle with the posts (still higher medially) not even able to contact the bottom of the boot, what is the good of that. I am just giving the facts from a LHS hockey expert give me what she could about the new Carbon, but have no real answers when I challenged her. Good Luck - Alan

1. I don't think anyone has commented on your pronation problem, that would be more problematic to you and me if that was the case because I have the same problem. I am sure the boot can be fixed or exchanged, but why are you still having a problem with your edges? Try the yellow Superfeet and NOT the new Carbon Superfeet as there appears to be a manufacturing error in my opinion, but read on please! 2. Your problem is my problem and please keep me in the loop even if you are not on the forum by using PM. I am wearing Bauer skates, but the skates are not the issue it is me and like you I am sure, very annoying as many games are a bust. I do add thin shims under my older Superfeet on the medial side of my heel cup area to twist my ankle into a straighter position and usually fixing the problem. Superfeet have built post in the heel area (most people miss this interesting fix) with the higher ones on the medial side (toward the left side if it is in the right skate) to give that twist to the ankle to correct minor pronation problems. This just might just help you if you don't have bad over pronation. 3. If you do purchase the Superfeet they have a 60 DAY NO QUESTIONS ASKED MONEY BACK RETURN POLICY, get a pair and try them out in your new VH skates just to see if they help, you can return them immediately and may give Rob some answers as to how to correct the problem when the skates go back to VH. 4. Stay away, for now, from the new "Carbon Superfeet", I just bought a pair because I felt that perhaps my older Superfeet were a bit soft and I noticed that the posts on the Carbon ones were a bit larger and higher, so it would seem. 5. IMPORTANT, the Carbon Superfeet were not answer this time, something was wrong. In my first game with them just last Thursday I was perplexed after my less than enjoyable game. After the game I took a close look at them after placing them on my counter top along side my old Superfeet and it was very apparent that the posts (what you and I need) did not even touch the counter top, but sat on the middle of the product, rocking left and right! The older Superfeet were beside these sitting nicely on the posts as intended. It would appear that there is a serious problem with the carbon style product, perhaps I was unlucky with this pair or maybe something is really wrong, IMHO. I can speak of only the pair I bought, but I know the older style product very well and why it is made as it is. The Carbon pair will be returned today and I will pick up the older style unless it can be shown that I purchased a dud, if so I will take a very close look at the Carbon ones before those! Somehow I feel the new ones will be all the same. 6. My intentions are to order a pair of VH skates very soon, but it will be the normal remote fitting as in my neck of the woods there is no one doing any fitting, let alone the 3D style. Like you I really want to be over the COG as well, but as you see no one, I don't think, has addressed your problem and they have no idea what we go through, slipping and sliding unless they had the problem. 7. How bad is your problem and how long have you been fighting it to give me some idea of where I stand? Thanks, Alan

1. With respect to building the VH skate for the person with over pronation issues I have been told that the correction will be in the boot itself, like using a built in orthotic (my words). Only when over pronation is an extreme problem will the holders be moved medially. With custom skates my assumption was that the holders were moved medially so that you are over your center of gravity. 2. Perhaps, with the remote fitting, it is too difficult to determine the proper location for the holder shift. I have no understanding of the 3D fitting, so I cannot comment here. 3. If we look at how figure skaters are fitted; they buy their boot and blades without being mounted and then have their trainers mount the blades to suit the center of gravity of each skater. This takes away any pronation or supination problems because they are now over their edges or COG. 4. Using an orthotic does the same thing, but in a more artificial way, my words again. It works, but I would much prefer to have my holders mounted under my true COG, but I guess that won’t happen. I have had orthotics and they do work. Alan

No fitters in Halifax, Nova Scotia! I sure wish there were! We have the NHL presence with Crosby, MacKinnon, Marchand, Giguere, Sheppard etc Alan

I am now unsure what is best, I really thought that if you can be placed directly over you blades by having the holders under your center of gravity then it would not matter if you pronation got worse as you are still over the COG. I don' know if this makes sense, but it is what we are trying to do all along. If you were lucky or unlucky enough to get a pair of skates off the assembly line and happened to be off set, but to your liking the problem would be solved and we would be telling everyone to buy bran X because the skate feels fantastic. There-in lies many problems, not always does the skate come off the line as it is suppose to! Just look at the variance on a few different pair of skates and I have had a few pairs I had to take back because of it. Now when I buy, or when I bought the last couple of skates I am wary. Make sure the holders are square, there are no warp in the soles and about 3 or 4 other things. Anyway, I guess VH (generally) will have the holders as dead on as they can and work with the boot to overcome the pronation issue, I thought there was some way the could, by remote fitting, understand that shifting the holders medially 1/8" or so would be the way to go, but I guess not. Before I order I do want another discussion with VH. I feel I have ruined 50% of my games over the past 5 or 6 years and nobody out there seemed to understand the pronation issue until just a couple of years ago. There may have been experts around, but none near me. I did so much research that I feel I have a good understanding, but I don't know it all! Cheers, Alan

Thanks for getting back, I did understand that it was your son that was having the problem, but I went further to suggest a stop-gap measure to fix a pronation fairly simply. As far as the pronation fix from VH, I assumed that the blade was moved, but I can see just molding a "rise" in the right spot will fix the issue. Why I thought they might put the blade under you center of gravity is from the usual "mechanical fix" that many skaters get, including figure skaters all the time! They get their boot and blades separately and have their expert put the blade directly under the skaters COG. I would think this is the proper way, but our skates off the shelf do not have any room to move the holders in laterally. Why not Google MLX skates that were out 4 or 5 years ago that had a built in system of being able to simply loosen the screws and both holders could be shifted a set amount to of set pronation very easily. I never had a chance to get a pair of these before Easton bought them out and they became the Makos, but they never incorporated the one thing that would have helped many of us with over pronation. this was the movable holder! I have spoken to Rob sometime ago and it was agreed that my skates were going to be made slightly different, hopefully the money will be here soon, I can' wait to get a pair. I may have missed commenting on some of you issues, if there is something I have missed get back to me. Cheers, Alan

I wish I could help more, but I will have to get a remote fitting, unfortunately. I have been going through hell over the past 5 or 6 years not understanding that I was starting to pronate whether due to age, a bad issue with sciatica (twice), pelvis misalignment from the sciatica or all of these, but it seemed like more than a coincidence that it was the sciatica. I would call Rob at VH and put the questions to him, he is great to deal with, although you will have to leave a message and await his call. In the meantime I am using Superfeet as the are built like an orthotic in that the heel end, if you look closely, has little plastic posts and are higher in the bottom of the heel on the medial side (towards the other leg ). This forces your right heel to twist upwards and straightening out the ankle, correcting any mild pronation problems. With me, I finally have figured out what I need, after all these years of grief, having my pronation change on any given day due to mild pronation and my pelvis shifting a bit, altering my pronation. With my Superfeet, I step on the ice and feel how my edges are. If the skates feel fine then I am having a good day. If one or both skates are sliding (not able to use your edges) I quickly add a "flat" 1. 5mm piece of plastic or puck-board, whatever you call it and place a small piece, approximately the length of the heel pocket 2", but less than half the width so the bottom of the Superfeet just sits on the plastic enough to push the heel area up a bit, straightening the ankle out even more. Cut the plastic so it fits semi-circle near the rear, don't go past the midpoint and just cut it off straight on the other end, do not go past the heel pocket, it is just to catch the Superfeet heel area on one side. I have gone back to the bench numerous times and I have various combinations of pieces stacked ( electrical tape) and ready to use depending upon the need. This can take just a minute or two, keep a flat head screwdriver to pull the Superfeet out or you might be cursing! Usually I need at least a 1.5mm, but this Tuesday, my first game, both skates needed 3 mm. But I was then in control of my edges and going to have good game. With this method I went from always having a ROH 1/4" to just over a 1/2", something I never dreamed of doing. Now I am skating and gliding well and not digging through the ice with a 1/2" hollow, tiring myself out! Remember, if a pronation fix like this is done inside the boot the "wedge" needs to go on the side nearest to the other leg (medial). Anymore explanation on this let me know, but I thought it might help between now and when you get your skates. And, let's say your VH skates came and you felt you were not over you edges this would work, but as I understand VH will do whatever they can to help you, in that case. Cheers, Alan

If your holders are misaligned you won't be able to glide straight for sure, but this would be the same for pronation issues, I am sure. Alan

Have not bought mine yet, but will move you blade/holder over so your center of gravity is directly over the blade and thus your 2 blade edges. Alan

I will go for that! As longa s i Can flex it on the ice. Alan

One good reason for lace-bite, in my opinion, is that you may need a more forward (+ plus pitch). I found that problem on the Bauer, but given a good suggestion I had my blades profiled for a higher pitch and it worked. I am not fighting to force my foot into the laces in order to get over my toes for a quick start or whatever. Depending upon your body-build you may have the same problem that I had and If the pitch is higher you are all ready in the proper position with regard to the laces to take those first hard strides where it hurts most people then just hurts all the time. I saw an article where another solution was to have your holders mounted as far back on the boot as possible which would tend to compensate like the higher pitch. Good luck, I know what it feels like and trying to mask it with different tongues or stuffing the area with rubber etc. Alan

If you have a size 5 skate as I do you get the $200 off, Rob knows my age and I am certainly not a "junior age" player and he has quoted the price to me as the junior size. Alan