Leif

They do: https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/hockey/hockey/about-us/hockey-technology.html

Thanks, very informative. I always assumed hockey was very big in north america. When you say Graf’s overall technology is still lacking, are you referring to holders, steel, thermoformability?

I think you misread some of my remarks: 2) I referred to non-sponsored players to indicate that their skates were not free. I also used the phrase “I wonder if” to indicate that I don’t know if it is genuinely profitable. When you say it is very profitable, where does that information come from? 3) I know CCM has one piece boots and high thermoformability, and did not say otherwise. (I’ve only read about it on this forum, never having worn CCM boots.) 1) Fair enough, I read a biography of him which didn’t mention MLX. That said, he started out in a small company, and I know from experience of working in many small companies that it’s hard to scale up. Cash flow is your enemy, invest huge amounts without the sales and you’re finished. I guess that’s why he went custom first, you build on demand. You don’t need to tool up a large factory and build large quantities. Shops are loathe to stock inventory of expensive products that are unproven. I was chatting to an owner of a local shop, he said they hate top end stock boots. When the new range comes out, they have to sell off old stock on discount, and margins are low, hence they will lose money.

I’m sure that’s mostly, or maybe completely, true. The True skate was pretty much developed by one man and his dog in a shed, and they had no previous production experience. Bauer buy in tech such as CarbonCurv. The advanced hard foam in my Bauer 2S Pro shin pads is polystyrene. The soft squishy foam is bought in tech. They also seem to spend a lot of time designing somewhat dubious features such as CarbonLite blades. In addition Bauer spends a fortune on advertising and sponsoring players. And I do wonder if supplying non sponsored NHL players is genuinely profitable. I wouldn’t be surprised if Graf had the nous to figure out how to produce carbon fibre skates, they understand production on a smallish commercial scale. But they would be expensive. And they would need a decent selling point. True has thermoformability and one piece. True outsource their stock TF7 and TF9 skates to China, I assume they do the same for stock Catalyst and Hzrdus skates too.

Thanks. Here in the UK we have the right to return a mail order product within 14 days anyway. They do have 12” (junior) in stock, just in case.

Thanks.

I’ve seen some True 9x Catalyst gloves for a decent price, and my Bauers have holes in them. I have owned Bauer and Warrior gloves in 13”, would I be safe with a 13” in the Trues?

It took me a few hours to adjust, mainly because I had to go down from 5/8” to 1”, the grip is insane. Best skates I’ve ever owned.

It’s based on a lot of reading around and experience. For example, I’ve come across a number of people who learnt to skate incredibly rapidly. I got to chatting to them all, and in every case their background explained it. One was a professional dancer. Another had boxed at a high level. Another was a black belt in martial arts. Another had skied for many years. A good example from a book is the case of Kenyan long distance runners who dominated in competition. Someone researched this and discovered they all came from one area where from a young age they ran long distances. Their culture had trained their bodies to excel. When you research successful people, you usually find an early obsession, or opportunities. If someone comes from a family of musicians, they’ll pick it up naturally, they will have ‘talent’. teachers will see ‘talent’ and give them extra encouragement and teaching. Matthew Syed was Britain’s top table tennis player. Most of our best players including Syed came from one street. Turns out they all had access to a table, allowing them to practice huge amounts. Obviously you need the right physique for a sport e.g. fast twitch muscles for sprinting, tall for basketball. And you need a decent IQ to do well in academic scientific research. However, everyone I have met believes that talent exists, that some people have it, some don’t. I won’t change anyone’s mind here, and anyway this is well off topic. I recommend Mindset by Carol Dweck and books by Matthew Syed.

I spent three years trying and failing to master several edge drills (powerpulls, backwards crossrolls, backwards scissor skate, forward inside edge three turns). After less than a month with skates that fit, I’ve almost mastered them. Talent is mostly a myth anyway. It’s hard work and good training with huge amounts of luck.

My earlier post was probably a bit overenthusiastic. However Bauer, even custom, don’t work for me because they don’t fit my flipper shaped feet with very narrow leg bones, and hence I can’t skate properly in them. So yes in my case True skates have given me a huge improvement in my skating. If you wish to call that personal preference, fair enough. There will of course be people for whom stock True skates don’t work. Or they simply prefer something else. So I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s all personal preference. Of course I might be very unusual, but I suspect not. Bauer and CCM have the hard task of producing a range of skates that fit as wide a range of people as possible, which is very hard to do, especially when Bauer skates are barely thermoformable. You just have to look at the three Bauer fits to realise they assume a certain forefoot width to heel width for example. I have no experience with CCM. True probably do better in that respect, but they get their fair share of complaints if not more. One of the best amateur skaters I know - he skates pairs dance in hockey skates, yes I know, unusual (1) - wears secondhand Bauer APX skates. He discovered that they work for him, so he’s stockpiled lightly used second hand pairs bought for £50. One of the best hockey skaters I know wears old Grafs. Friends who play at a far higher level than me usually wear old skates. Someone more knowledgeable than me (my experience is limited) might correct me here, but I suspect fit is paramount, alongside skating ability, and the latest much hyped features such as the supposedly energy giving Reflex Pro tongues on my Bauer customs are little more than gimmicks. That said, Bauer speed plates are superb, and do improve my skating. So some features, of course, do work. It’s only recently that I discovered that my difficulty learning skating drills was due to my skates. So yes I do think True are innovating by having very thermoformable skates, as there must be many people who don’t fit stock boots, or semi-custom boots. However, innovation is risky, and the market might not take to it. Scott van Horne for example went into making figure skates, custom and stock, but ran into financial difficulties, and had to sell his company to Wilson skates. (1) He had skating lessons in hockey boots, with the intention of moving to figures. However, he got so much abuse from other figure skating coaches, some hate hockey skaters, that he now refuses on principle to get figures. For example, they would complain about the noise his skates make, or make derisory remarks in earshot.

You can see here the difference between my Bauer customs (right) and Trues (left): I forgot about the injected facings, they provide less wrap, maybe that has an influence too.

I was using a 5/8” grind on hard winter ice with my Bauer skates. With my TF9s I had to go down to to a 1” grind as the bite was insane. I’m getting more glide for a given grip, hence skating should be less tiring. However, I’m now able to put in more power. It took me several hours to get used to the forward pitch.

They do a lot of infomercials. They might even have been paid to take a camera crew over to Switzerland. Do these old skates still hold water? Or have they been overtaken by modern designs? I know a very good skater and player who swears by his Graf hockey skates.

The issue is that I cannot get Shift runners in the UK, and Max Shift runners do not fit my holders. Fortunately I was able to get some Shift runners from Finland, just in case I need to replace my current ones.

I had my Tuuks replaced after a few years on my Bauers, they had been loose for a long while. I have no idea if True are any worse, but clearly they thought fit to improve them.

Max Shift runners have an extra sticky up bit which means they don’t fit Shift holders. Shift runners do however fit Max Shift holders. Our local shop retrofits Max Shift runners, by modifying the holder or the runners. I just bought the correct runners while still available. I sharpen my blades weekly, but only one pass on my Sparx, runners last years as the Sparx takes off so little steel compared to hand sharpening.

I will be happy if mine last two years as the performance and comfort are phenomenal. It is always possible your kid does something specific that damages them, but that obviously is still not acceptable. I had to pick up spare Shift runners from Finland as they are no longer made. A local shop also said they can retrofit the new Max Shift runners.

Thanks. That’s not good. Banging the heel to force the foot back is quite normal, I find it helps the heel lock. I put a lot of stress on my boots with outside edge stops and powerpulls when practicing.

How long did it take for the cracks to appear? I seem to recall he’s about 15. Is this all scrimmage, or a mix of games and training? Do you have any idea what caused the cracks e.g. a slapper to the skate shell? Do you have experience with this yourself? Or is this from online posts? Do you know what sort of failure rate there is? I spoke to a semi pro hockey player who said he went through two pairs of Bauer boots a year. Tommy H. on Hockey Tutorial, a semi pro player, says boots (Bauer, CCM) generally last him 6 months. I’m not trying to make excuses for True, rather I’d like to get a feel for how prevalent the issues are, and when they appear. I know about 4 people including myself with TF9s. I skate at lesst 3 times a week, including two casual hockey games. I’m a good skater, but not powerful and a fairly lean build. My Bauer customs seemed to have retained their integrity after 5 years, despite severe cosmetic wear.

Yes, the pro fit is much more custom. You are right about the trickle effect, and seeing that most other people on the rink wear Bauer with some CCM too. I would never have bought True were it not for a deep discount (half price) and 30 day no quibble money back warranty. I thought they would be rubbish. Now I would happily pay full price. There do seem to be plenty of reports of issues with True. However, I know many users, and only one issue which was the tendon guard needing a new bolt. A UK semi-pro hockey player on the Hockey Tutorial YouTube channel tests lots of skates. He was very impressed with the durability of his True customs, much better than his Bauer Hyperlites and some others too. I know so many people who have Bauers and CCMs and complain about painful feet. And I know several people with Bauer Hyperlites who hate the tongue. Of course my samples are tiny, but there is a tendency to only hear from unhappy users. It takes time to penetrate a market, and in the UK Bauer is the big name, the biggest hockey shop is now Bauer only. They dropped True and CCM. I cynically think that most of these ‘features’ that Bauer push out are gimmicks but they appeal to the youngsters, or at least convince them that they are getting the mutts.

Do these have the same forward pitch as the equivalent ice skates? I assume the boots are almost identical.

Thanks. I think you have hit the nail on the head: “some boots just work for some people more than others”. I pronate, and I have a suspicion that the Bauer customs don’t provide me with adequate support. In addition I have duck feet with very narrow lower legs. Bauer skate fits all seem to assume a similar shape, with three volumes and a couple of widths. Hence stock Bauers are painful for me. I suspect the customs are the same shape as stock boots, just fitted to each foot in 1/4 size increments, and a few more widths. And I suspect to get mine to fit, they sized the width to my forefoot and then they filled the large ankle area with a lot of foam. Plus a bit of pressure moulding. My lower legs do look tiny in the huge boot opening. I am guessing about the reasons of course, but it’s like going from a Trabant to a Porsche 911. I do feel somewhat angry with Bauer, they market customs as made to fit the players feet, which is not really the case. I think True SVH are the only truly custom skate on the market. I assume CCM are as per Bauer.

I’m surprised no-one has had similar experiences. I’m now sure the left Bauer skate is defective, as drills on my left foot are now so much easier in the Trues. It might have a misaligned holder, perhaps a 2 mm offset at one end and -2 mm at the other end, but it is hard to tell. I guess it could also be misaligned internally, perhaps a slight twist of the last when doing the pressure heat moulding. I know this isn’t just a Bauer problem, there’s plenty of reports here of problems with True customs too. Maybe because customs are hand made, they are more subject to quality control issues.

When doing skating practice in quiet public sessions, I always wear body armour. Xion is some of the best on the market, albeit not cheap, and they are based in Holland so not ideal for North Americans. Their armour is essentially a lightweight piece of clothing, such as a shirt, with pockets containing D3O padding. You can remove the ones you don’t need, I remove the side pads from the shorts, I only need the coccyx pad. I find they do not get anywhere near as sweaty as other products I have tried (Demon shorts). It works incredibly well. On one occasion I fell on my unpadded coccyx, and I could not walk, or do anything with my legs for most of the next day, and it took a week to recover fully. After buying padded shorts, I just get up and carry on after a fall. D3O pads can be bought on eBay, and sewn into a shirt easily enough. The Xion website will give you ideas on the sort of thing you could make. There are other products with a similar property. However, ordinary foam pads are not as effective i.e. you need more thickness. I believe CCM use D3O in some of their protective equipment. Xion say not to wash it, but it seems to survive a cold wash with non bio detergent.