I still hate Graf Servive but

[djinferno 2]

Now this is a cool product, hopefully they are not defective...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

[sNIpEr3 0]

Those look pretty sweet!!! But Im a 705 guy.... Good luck with those!!!

[PH_Hockey2 4]

Is the Black Widow still available for custom from Graf? I see alot of Great white and Reverse Great White but not a lot of the Black Widow

[Sven 1]

They look neat.

Now you can build the opposite to the "Pimp Equipment"

Black Widow Skates, black helmet, black pants, all black gloves and so on.

In addition to a stealth stick you would be a B51-OnIce

[Bruin88 0]

those look amazing ,i saw a pair at my lhs last year but they had the black cobra holders ,i should have bought them instead of the 735's....if i did my feet might not have hurt all year

[A_Steeves12 0]

those skates with black tuuks would be mint!

[Eazy_b97 1]

What's really different on them? Black sole... no writing?

[hockeydude_49 0]

The thing i like about em is that theyre simple and not all flashy.

[Reaper 0]

What's really different on them? Black sole... no writing?

It looks like they have flat black finish synthetic leather and no screened logos or model numbers on them as well.

[hockeydude_49 0]

Now this is a cool product, hopefully they are not defective...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

This guy had these skates on ebay like a week ago and i asked him why hes selling em and he said its just cuz he got new skates so i guess theres nothing defective with em.

[Neo5370 132]

those look amazing ,i saw a pair at my lhs last year but they had the black cobra holders ,i should have bought them instead of the 735's....if i did my feet might not have hurt all year

I thought the 735's were built to fit like 703/704's.

[Gongshow11 1]

dude djinferno, u had a bad experience with graf. im a bauer guy, not interested in grafs but enough with this defective bs, most guys i know wear grafs and like them.

[Cavs019 710]

I like my grafs more than sliced bread, you and lkpt are the only people I know that have had problems, and I know a ton of kids that wear graf.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I can't see myself in any other brand than a Graf '09 skate right now. You had a bad experience with them, both with their product and CS, but I think this personal hatred has stretched beyond what it deserves.

[kosydar 0]

I understand why he'd be pissed off. Graf was very shitty towards him, both in their product and in their customer service. Personally, I'm a Graf fan. They're the only skate that has ever fit my foot properly. Still, their new products can't compare to the quality of their older ones.

[Pats 0]

Those skates used to be sold in stores, from what I remember they had writing and logos on them, they were just in black instead of standard gold on 704.

[sogaduch 0]

the writing on them is black thats why there not visible in pictures.and to the person asking if the 735s fit like 703/704. no they have a 703 fit for narrowness with abit wider forefoot and a 705 ankle depth. where the 703 is shallower

[sherwood21 0]

those look amazing ,i saw a pair at my lhs last year but they had the black cobra holders ,i should have bought them instead of the 735's....if i did my feet might not have hurt all year

I thought the 735's were built to fit like 703/704's.

I've found that the 703 Wide and 735 wide fit differently. Keep in mind I have super wide feet (EE Vapor XX's, right now 735 wides) but I really thought that the 703's were too high for my arch and were too narrow.

The 703's ankle was too narrow for my liking, as well.

[Eazy_b97 1]

If you're in EE Vapors and 735 you're feet may be wide, but not "super wide"

[djinferno 2]

I can't see myself in any other brand than a Graf '09 skate right now. You had a bad experience with them, both with their product and CS, but I think this personal hatred has stretched beyond what it deserves.

it's not personal, i had 3 pairs before getting a defective one.... they did me wrong then i hur myself using em... still i tried to order 703s on 3 different occasions at hockeymonkey.com and the new ones with the gold plate on the side where all diferent in terms of the boot fit.... So i'm kind of resiliant to get another... G series sole is sketchy from what I've read here....

I'm not inventing things, call the guy at hockeymonkey that took 3 pairs back, you know dam well that internet sales would not take a pair back for no reason after I heatmolded them....

I'm to of the opinion that old grafs where mint, i think that these all black grafs are from the old school since they don't make 704's anymore...

I'm a mission guy now...

[Nick23 0]

It seems that with graf there are only two views, you either love them, or hate them... like t-blades.

so if youve already had a pair f grafs id say go with them.

[Chadd 916]

I like my grafs more than sliced bread, you and lkpt are the only people I know that have had problems, and I know a ton of kids that wear graf.

I've had a couple guys come in with screwed up pairs directly from the factory. One guy even works at the other rink in town and brought them to me because of the problems he was having.

[sherwood21 0]

If you're in EE Vapors and 735 you're feet may be wide, but not "super wide"

It's very hard for me to find skates that fit due to my feets size/shape. I wear size 6.5 shoes and EE Vapors were too tight, and I had to punch out 735's until they were perfect. I know you shouldn't be punching out skates, that means that they don't fit perfect, but when I did it was like candy on my feet. Super wide might be pushin it, but they are definetely wide.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I can't see myself in any other brand than a Graf '09 skate right now. You had a bad experience with them, both with their product and CS, but I think this personal hatred has stretched beyond what it deserves.

it's not personal, i had 3 pairs before getting a defective one.... they did me wrong then i hur myself using em... still i tried to order 703s on 3 different occasions at hockeymonkey.com and the new ones with the gold plate on the side where all diferent in terms of the boot fit.... So i'm kind of resiliant to get another... G series sole is sketchy from what I've read here....

I'm not inventing things, call the guy at hockeymonkey that took 3 pairs back, you know dam well that internet sales would not take a pair back for no reason after I heatmolded them....

I'm to of the opinion that old grafs where mint, i think that these all black grafs are from the old school since they don't make 704's anymore...

I'm a mission guy now...

From what I have been told the soles are fixed on the G series. What was you're problem the 703s? They didn't all fit the same? I find it hard to believe, sometimes when I try on my skates, the ones I've had for 2 years, the fit seems a little different. Is Graf perfect? I'd say that there's no chance they, or any other product is "perfect". I've worn, like alot of people, every major brand out there across the board. I've heard of Bauer having alot of problems, I know of CCM, Missions (multiple times for me, Easton, Nike, I plan to get some Tour in-lines in the fall as well. Grafs the only company I've personally never had a problem with, but I don't recommend stuff with "if they aren't defective". On-line retailers have a huge supply of stock and often aren't able to even check it before it goes out. Hopefully a good LHS is able to catch any of Grafs problems, just like people should be checking Bauers. You said you're going with Missions, I know you really liked the way Justin handled your situation, who wouldn't? but I could very easily point out the fact I have owned 6 pairs of Missions and only 1 pair has worked well, and only 1 additional pair didn't have major problems with the boots. But I don't because I know Mission like any other company will have problems, just like all companies will.

I never accused you of "inventing things", but I do think this has been stretch further than it deserves.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I knew a guy who had them. Opposite of the White Lightnings - everything on the boot is blacked out. Black tongue, black lettering, black Cobra holder.