LHS owners/workers

[tryandstopme 35]

Understood, thanks. Mt. Vernon is my local (30 min) rink, they used to have a pro-shop across the road, but it moved to waldorf (I think) so my closest is in reston (45 minutes) and the guys are great, but the stock is limited.

I buy when I can, and I don't need skates, was just looking for mid level alternatives, to see if they fit me better

Thanks though

Was the pro shop across from Mount Vern called Skater's Paradise? I got my first pair of "real" skates there. Thats a shame if that place shut down. Did Caravan in College Park close down as well? That place used to be great back in the mid 90's. Big selection, bubble hockey, nice staff.

I haven't been to the pro shop at the Fairfax rink in ages but they always seemed pretty helpful when I've gone there in the past.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Was the pro shop across from Mount Vern called Skater's Paradise? I got my first pair of "real" skates there. Thats a shame if that place shut down. Did Caravan in College Park close down as well? That place used to be great back in the mid 90's. Big selection, bubble hockey, nice staff.

I haven't been to the pro shop at the Fairfax rink in ages but they always seemed pretty helpful when I've gone there in the past.

Yeah, it was skaters paradise. They didn't shut down, just relocated to Waldorf. Caravan did close down, but I heard it may be reopening as a shop/training facility, although have no clue.

I use For Sports up in Laurel now, I work in greenbelt, so only a 15 minute drive from here, and really really good service

[mattzilla 0]

I dont see what the big deal is. Ive bought skates from the LHS before, and they were great blah blah blah, but this time im gonna get fitted then buy them online.

its not fair, but whatever, ive bought stuff in the past and i'll buy stuff in the future from them, sticks, pucks, everything i can think of. but im not made of money... one set of skates that im gonna save about 400ish bucks on is a big deal for me.

i work retail, and it happens all the time. you deal with it.

[pennyandnickel 0]

i work at our lhs. i didnt send an e-mail or anything. let me know if i should

[Jason Harris 31]

I dont see what the big deal is. Ive bought skates from the LHS before, and they were great blah blah blah, but this time im gonna get fitted then buy them online.

its not fair, but whatever, ive bought stuff in the past and i'll buy stuff in the future from them, sticks, pucks, everything i can think of. but im not made of money... one set of skates that im gonna save about 400ish bucks on is a big deal for me.

i work retail, and it happens all the time. you deal with it.

I understand the savings is significant, but there are a couple of things to consider. The savings likely will be less, since most retailers give free sharpeners to customers who buy skates. More importantly, it is to your advantage to help keep your LHS in business, as there will be times you will need an urgent sharpening/tape/laces/etc. If too many people use the LHS' time to fit skates, then buy online, that lost profit may cause dire consequences to the store.

[cj190 0]

This is definetely a tough topic and I can see both sides as a consumer. One thing I have noticed is that some LHS' are becoming very specialized, offering primarily custom equipment that you cannot get online, or if you can, only rarely.

[Methane 0]

I've seen it mentioned several times around here that Perani's has crappy customer service. Not just one store but several have been mentioned.

What is with not being able to get a hand in fitting skates or the employees rolling their eyes at you when you ask to try the 3rd model of skate once you've finally got off the stool behind the counter, after sighing like I'm pissing you off by not getting the skates out of the back myself? In the last few weeks I've dropped over a grand in there, I'm obviously not just looking or using you for fitting advice so I can shop online. I realize that you are the ONLY Hockey dedicated shop in North Central Texas, but JESUS, can I get a little help over here?

Sorry for the rant, it just seems this attitude that the customer is an annoyance runs deep in this thread. I know I don't look like I have a ton of disposable income, but I do and you're pissing me off sooner or later I and other that you treat this way will go BACK to shopping online.

Oh yeah, and when I drop a few hundred on a pair of skates, DO NOT slop a crooked half a**ed sharpening on them and tell me they can't be baked. I know they can be and I know the hotshot tournament kids that are in and out of there don't get crappy sharppenings.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Methane

[Sputnik20 46]

As an operator of a LHS, I find it difficult enough to compete with other LHS's in my area not to mention the MonkeyGiantFace.com's. Having people come in for fitting is great, espcially when you make the sale, but more and more people do use our (LHS's) good intentions to get the proper fit in order to save $80 on a pair of One90's. Can't really blame the customer either, they did their homework and thus save a themselves some money. It's a given.

What I think needs to happen, and I have had this conversation with my fellow competitors, is a number of changes have to happen on our side of the business to off-set the ever growing popularity of the on-line shopping.

A. Introduction of fitting charges. $10 or $20 surcharge on a skate fitting, waved if skates are purchased.

A-2. Waving of the fitting charge, plus dropping the price of the skate the price of the fitting upon purchase.

B. Teir pricing on first time sharpening. High-end skates, those that most commonly bought at on-line stores, can be sharpened for $25. Low-end product that you can find in TSA or Wal-Mart can be done at $15.

C. Skate baking. $50 a pair.

D. Multiple free sharpening cards. Get your skates here, get 5-10 sharpenings free on top of the first one.

Since most LHS's offer free sharpening and baking services on their skates, the trend may tilt in our favor once again. If it costs a skate buyer $75 to get skates ready for use, they may think twice about buying on-line.

Although it will be very difficult for all LHS's to adhere to any such strategies, there may be however an easier method. I think that the manufacturers have to make a stand.

Imagine if Nike Bauer Hockey came out and said "We will not sell our thermo-formable skates to dealers who cannot properly service, fit, and customize our products for the consumer. Only Pro Shops, and not on-line dealers will be able to carry our high-end equipment."

Ofcourse they will never do so.

So, lets use this forum to exchange ideas of how the LHS's can strengthen their position in the hockey marketplace.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

Sputnik,

You make valid points. One aspect of online shopping, and saving money that will be very hard to get rid of is naievity.

When I first thought about getting into hockey I signed up for some skate lessons. After one lesson in rentals, I went to the pro-shop in the rink to get a pair of entry level skates. The guy there fitted me quickly, gave me one skate in my price range and told me it was good. I said I had wide feet, he gave me CCM 252 tacks.

I paid $130 for those. When I started doing research on gear (before I found MSH), I found hockeymonkeygiant. I saw my same skates for $79.99.

At that stage, my concern was not "how to keep the LHS in business", it was "he knew I was only starting hockey, and tried to rip me off"

I then ordered my protective gear from the monkey. I bought my pants, gloves and helmet at replay sports.

It was only a few months later when I heard the argument for the LHS that I gave any consideration to it.

When I went back to this particular shop, I found the staff to be reasonably friendly, but helpful. I made clear I didn't have a lot of money for new gloves (the used ones had at this stage fallen apart), and they basically said, "these are in your price range" and gave me TPS. Which are a good glove, just not on my hand.

Then I found another LHS near where I work. I went up there because my tacks kept hurting me, like my foot didn't fit down into it enough.

THIS LHS sat me down, measured my foot, put me in a pair of Bauer Supreme 30's. Explained what the benefits of the boot were, and while they were not top end, that they were stiff enough for someone of my size to get comfortable in.

He did not try to oversell me on anything, didn't try to get me to even go an extra $50 for the Supreme50's.

I understand the LHS needs our cash to continue to operate, but with that, comes expectations.

Since my skate purchase there, I have probably spent an additional $500 there, which might not be much, but its my entire hockey buget for the last 6 months, with the exception of some used items purchased here.

If I ever need something new, I will go back there.

I have no problem paying a fitting fee if it is waived if the skate is bought there. But this shop carries most brands. If the LHS only carries CCM/Bauer (like the caps practice facility pro-shop), then a fitting fee is unfair, as you don't have full range of products, so may not find whats good on your foot.

If the LHS (like my one now) gives as good a service as I have got to everyone, there will be little complaints about the extra few dollars.

And everyone who asks me where to get something, I will always refer them to ForSports because of how they treated me, a small budgetted beginner adult player

[dix0r 0]

don't know if you guys are still keeping track for the voting - but at the end of the month, the rink i work at is shutting down and i'll no longer work in a pro-shop.

[Chadd 916]

If it was going to cost $75 to get their skates properly set up, those people who try on your skates and buy them elsewhere would skip baking them entirely.

Too bad people would just skip baking and the online shop would offer free first sharpening.

Imagine if Nike Bauer Hockey came out and said "We will not sell our thermo-formable skates to dealers who cannot properly service, fit, and customize our products for the consumer. Only Pro Shops, and not on-line dealers will be able to carry our high-end equipment."

Those on-line dealers do have the ability to set up skates for their in-house customers and you have to have a brick and mortar shop in order to get an account. Plus most shops employ barely literate kids who don't really care if you get a proper fit or not. Not all, but most.

So, lets use this forum to exchange ideas of how the LHS's can strengthen their position in the hockey marketplace.

Hockey retailer trade association

[DarkStar50 679]

Hockey retailer trade association: the roster would change every month.

Plus, most shops with their barely literate kids wouldn't bother to join. Not all, but most.

[Chadd 916]

Plus, most shops with their barely literate kids wouldn't bother to join. Not all, but most.

Those are the shops that make online buying look good.

[DarkStar50 679]

Judging by comments in the other thread about online hockey buying, there seems to be about just as many success or failure stories with online buying as with shopping at your LHS. If you run a crappy LHS or a crappy online site, you are still crappy.

[Powerfibers 8]

I recently found a new LHS to deal with, and I think that the theme of this thread is that if you have a good LHS you see the benefit and if you don't you see no reason to support anyone but yourself and you buy online. Now that I found someone who will handle me the way I want to be treated, I am willing to spend a little more because I see that am getting things that I should be paying for all along.

[TBLfan 25]

Bottomline, if you have a good LHS you are stupid to not use them, even if it does cost a few bucks extra.

Don't get me wrong, I will buy stuff online when deals are to be had but my LHS treats me well... Actually, they occasionally ask me about deals and some have taken advantage of some of the ridiculous deals I've found.

[Rustpot 1]

I used my LHS for skate fitting then bought online, but the savings was more than $100 for me. I still give them lots of business with a $7 first sharpen, $20 baking, $8 holder realignment, $20 profiling, and probably half a dozen $4 sharpenings.

Bought my shins and shoulders online as my LHS didn't carry Jofa/RBK until recently and they're the only ones that fit me properly.

Bought some used sticks/shafts here, a closeout Intrigue from the Giant, my bag is a cheap $15 SMU from the Monkey, jerseys from GSBB.

Unless it's a big savings closeout, I plan to spend the rest of my cash locally or on used. I might be getting new skates around Thanksgiving, but I'm going to spend time and really get a good fit this time. Tried to get some $45 9KN gloves from the Giant, but I was too late.

I've never ordered tape, blades or anything small online. If you save $1-10, the $8 shipping and the week of wait evens it out.

As for the idea of charging more for skates you didn't sell- How do you know they didn't buy from another store that was running a sale, or bought them only to hear your services are so much better. Charging $50 for a bake that takes 10 minutes of your time (bake, put their feet in, tell them to sit while you go work) is ridiculous. Maybe a one90/S15/1300c or some other skate that you have to spend time heat forming to encourage sales of those skates, but not a general baking.

Charging more for sharpening higher skates is also stupid. If the XXXX steel is the same as the XII, why would you charge more?

If anything do a skate by skate setup fee. Make a sign for it, too, so you're not just arbitrarily charging someone more. Say a new one90 will cost $60 for a complete setup, include bake, heat mold, and 2 sharpenings or something.

Encourage package deals. If you buy a set of skates over $300, $10 more gets you 5 or 10 sharpenings along with the initial setup bake/sharp. $15 more for skates $200-300 gets you 10 and $20 more for skates up to $200 gets you 15.

Throw in extra laces, a roll of tape or something if they buy a new skate sharpening package.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Rustpot

[dix0r 0]

got a job at another rink - are you still keeping track of this? if so, i'll shoot you an email...

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Sent out the Product of the Year ballots.

If you work at a LHS, shoot an email to jboucicaut@modsquadhockey.com so that you can get one. I will need to know what store you work at and what your job title is.

Deadline is 1.13.08.

[sdcopp 1]

I wanted to share what one of my LHS has listed in little made up pamphlets they carry to show pricing on the products they carry as well as costs for services. The owner, Marty, is a great guy and has many of the same issues that a lot of shop owners/workers have expressed here. Despite the online shops and multiple chain stores, he's maintained his business well.

"ALL customers ARE welcome & appreciated in our store.

Customers are treated EQUALLY regardless of team, league, or association affiliation. We do NOT discriminate against ANY customers by discounting select groups. Please do not ask us for discounts, we DO NOT haggle over or 'match' prices. We KNOW what internet & our competitors prices are - PLEASE COMPARE TO OURS! We ARE usually more expensive on SHARPENING & REPAIR ONLY - for a reason. We will NOT over-sell you things that you don't need or anything that doesn't work & then sharpen your sates for free OR give you a free roll of tape to cover it up. We ARE honest with our customers, even if it means NOT SELLING YOU SOMETHING. We are NOT a corporate owned franchise, we ARE a locally owned private independant. Please respect our store & TIME if other customers are waiting. You CAN schedule a before or after hours appt. if needed OR if coming down from Denver/up from Pueblo. If you need to get fitted or recommendations but are NOT buying we do charge for our time & experience as well as any work done on 'brought-in' equipment, skates or sticks. We prefer service-work & fittings be done during the week & NOT the last hour of the day. Service and repair work on items originally purchased from us DOES take priority. We are NOT after NOR do we EXPECT everyones business..

for those who understand & SUPPORT us, we exist for YOU.

WE DO APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS, THANK YOU - Marty"

Marty has a few different pamphlets with such store philosophy, as well as properly fitting all types of equipment. Great guy, and his prices line up with everything out there. With the fitting fees and everything he always has business in his shop. People aren't usually payng those fees though because they are buying from him. Once the FDA or whoever approves a neck surgery he needs, he's packing up and moving to Minnesota to work up there because of the ever growing retail chains and online stores. It's kind of interesting though, because he'll be going to some chain of shops where it's a lot of experienced guys basically working together to do business against the Giants and Monkeys of the world. Kind of a weird evolution of the LHS.

[oggy_3 0]

Thats great to hear!! I am happy working at a chain hockey store but that is the ideal business.

Edited January 3, 2008 by oggy_3

[dsjunior1388 81]

I've seen it mentioned several times around here that Perani's has crappy customer service. Not just one store but several have been mentioned.

What is with not being able to get a hand in fitting skates or the employees rolling their eyes at you when you ask to try the 3rd model of skate once you've finally got off the stool behind the counter, after sighing like I'm pissing you off by not getting the skates out of the back myself? In the last few weeks I've dropped over a grand in there, I'm obviously not just looking or using you for fitting advice so I can shop online. I realize that you are the ONLY Hockey dedicated shop in North Central Texas, but JESUS, can I get a little help over here?

Sorry for the rant, it just seems this attitude that the customer is an annoyance runs deep in this thread. I know I don't look like I have a ton of disposable income, but I do and you're pissing me off sooner or later I and other that you treat this way will go BACK to shopping online.

Oh yeah, and when I drop a few hundred on a pair of skates, DO NOT slop a crooked half a**ed sharpening on them and tell me they can't be baked. I know they can be and I know the hotshot tournament kids that are in and out of there don't get crappy sharppenings.

Really? I have been to peranis in Livonia and Taylor MI and have never had a problem. All the personnel are eager, helpful and knowledgeable. Ill come in and ask about sticks or skates, they'll ask the right questions and find me the product Im looking for, even if its less expensive than what I was originally asking about. Last year they had their annual sale in the beginning of the summer, I found a pair of McKenney Pro Elite Pants marked down from 110 to 30. I asked, the man said that wasn't right, but walked over to check anyway. He found that they had been mismarked (should have been 30% off, not $30.00) and made a special note to let me have them for thirty bucks.

[#44wannabe 4]

Ok, i've just started working in what is kind of an LHS (they try and sell bikes, skate boards, scooters etc. as well) and my god! Apparently they've been on a sharpening training course but i have never seen anyone (except them) man-handle a skate sharpener so much. Instead of going in one direction with the flow of the grind they wheel they just hammer it backwards and forth, the cross grinder has never been used, the blade clamp is never adjusted or checked, they managed to jam the diamond into one set position so you cant choose your grind and they dont check to see if the edges even after the skates are sharpened. Oh and to top it off they charge £7 for this and they literally do a pair of skates in under 2 minutes...

JR, when are you coming to England for a masterclass?

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

MSH Product of the Year ballot has been sent out.

If you are in the retail industry and haven't received one, please email me at jboucicaut@modsquadhockey.com along with where you work.

[ddpatc 0]

Does working for a team qualify...? I also put in a few hours a week here and there at an LHS in the Pro shop repairing and sharpening skates but, I am primarily employed by a team as the Head Athletic Therapist.

Edited January 27, 2009 by ddpatc