Weightlifting

[phunky_monkey 6]

Interesting vid on squats by Mike Boyle: http://www.functionalstrengthcoach3.com/squats.html

[shooter27 116]

EDIT: Nevermind, got my answer

[sitzlejd 0]

This is more of a nutrition question, but here goes. According to some research I think I burn about 2500 calories a day, not counting lifting and hockey. In order to build muscle, it's my understanding that I need to be eating more calories than I burn, and I'm pretty sure I don't get 2500 as it is. So my question is, for those of you trying to put on mass, what types of foods do you use to get enough "good" calories? I know I could just eat Whoppers everyday, but that doesn't seem like the best idea.

Thanks!

[Jesse_01 0]

egg's, chicken, lean ground beef, protein shakes, lots of green's, fish. What are your current height/weight stats.

[gxc999 7]

 One thing you have to keep in mind is that lifting and lifting for hockey have to be thought of differently. For hockey, unless you're super skinny or a stay at home defenseman, you want to focus more on strength gain than mass gain, because any mass, even muscle, WILL slow you down. This is true of upper and lower body mass. Someone a couple pages back posted a great idea, for max strength gain and only a little mass gain, go 90% 1RM 3-4 reps, 3-4 sets. That worked really, really well for me.

As for the dietary question, I've got severe allergies, so I have to look at things a little differently. I've found that despite fat, nuts are a very good friend in gaining good weight. London broil is also cheap and mega high in protein. Apples, granola bars, eggs and beef jerky are great snacks. Oh, and don't be afraid of pasta with lean meatballs, make them yourself from good ground beef.

[sitzlejd 0]

egg's, chicken, lean ground beef, protein shakes, lots of green's, fish. What are your current height/weight stats.

Currently 5' 10, 166 lbs.

And gxc, I appreciate your input but I'm not looking to build mass for hockey reasons. I'm a beer leaguer and I only play about once a week. I just want to get enough calories so that the weights I'm lifting help me get bigger, not just more cut. From what I understand you need to eat more calories than you burn in order to do this. Am I wrong about that?

[Machinehead2k5 32]

Currently 5' 10, 166 lbs.

And gxc, I appreciate your input but I'm not looking to build mass for hockey reasons. I'm a beer leaguer and I only play about once a week. I just want to get enough calories so that the weights I'm lifting help me get bigger, not just more cut. From what I understand you need to eat more calories than you burn in order to do this. Am I wrong about that?

Yep. You must eat more than you consume, simple mathematics.

Lose weight: Less Cals consumed than burned

Gain weight: More Cals consumed than burned

To gain "good weight" those extra calories have to be a healthy calories not junk food, fast food, fried food etc. My body however when I was packing on the muscle pounds I could and still can get away with eating craptastic foods to gain muscle mass, but I'm pretty sure the blood pressure/cholesterol would greatly suffer.

[kovyperron5727 0]

Currently 5' 10, 166 lbs.

And gxc, I appreciate your input but I'm not looking to build mass for hockey reasons. I'm a beer leaguer and I only play about once a week. I just want to get enough calories so that the weights I'm lifting help me get bigger, not just more cut. From what I understand you need to eat more calories than you burn in order to do this. Am I wrong about that?

No your right. Eat lots of carbs and protein. In fact aim for one gram of protein per pound, so if I were you I'd aim for about 170-200 grams of protein a day. The foods Jesse listed are perfect. I think to build muscle you want to eat about 500 more claories than you usually eat in one day, but what I did was eat around 3500-4000 cals a day. Theres a calculator on Vince DelMonte's(bodybuilder) website which ballparks how much calories you should eat in a day if you want to be sure. You can buy protein shakes which pack a ton of calories, carbs, and protein in one serving which makes getting your calories easy.

[gxc999 7]

Focus on eating a lot of small, healthy meals. For beer league, 5'10" 165 isn't so small, but at that size, your biggest asset has to be speed. I've been up to 190 after being as skinny as 140 at a half inch below 6 foot and the difference in speed is legitimate. Most people have a "breaking point" after which they seem to be suddenly less explosive. Mine was about 175-180.

[SolarWind 23]

Interesting vid on squats by Mike Boyle: http://www.functionalstrengthcoach3.com/squats.html

first he opens up by saying that "squat is not a lower body exercise - it's a lower back exercise" & then concludes "do not do squats"?!

give your head a shake - I think it's pretty lame!

he was asking the right question though re "is the low back the limiting factor" - in case of his "lab rats" it was obviously the case, unfortunately it lead him to a completely wrong conclusion!

squat is a total body exercise, but the chain is obviously as weak at the weakest link. So if the lower back is not strong enough & conditioned to statically hold the weight that is sufficient to load & even overload the legs then the person simply needs to improve on that by doing specific work for the posterior chain. so hypers, reverse hypers, good mornings etc would fix it in no time.

[shooter27 116]

first he opens up by saying that "squat is not a lower body exercise - it's a lower back exercise" & then concludes "do not do squats"?!

give your head a shake - I think it's pretty lame!

he was asking the right question though re "is the low back the limiting factor" - in case of his "lab rats" it was obviously the case, unfortunately it lead him to a completely wrong conclusion!

squat is a total body exercise, but the chain is obviously as weak at the weakest link. So if the lower back is not strong enough & conditioned to statically hold the weight that is sufficient to load & even overload the legs then the person simply needs to improve on that by doing specific work for the posterior chain. so hypers, reverse hypers, good mornings etc would fix it in no time.

I'm skeptical too, but Boyle is one of the top hockey-specific trainers in the world. He's been working with BU for decades and has close to a hundred NHL players that work out with him each summer, so he knows something. Since I saw the video I've added the one-leg split squats he talks about to my leg routine, not in place of squats, and my squat has definitely improved.

In one sense you're right, the squat it a total body exercise so it makes the entire body stronger. But if you're lifting to specifically make your legs stronger to improve your skating, the more load you can place directly on your legs, the stronger they're going to get. If you can work your legs harder, through the same range of motion, while still standing, and removing the limiting factor of the lower back, I don't think that can be a bad thing. Granted, you don't want to overdo it or your body gets out of proportion and you're still going to be limited in on-ice performance by the weakest link. I don't think I'll ever totally replace squats, but I do like the additional benefit of the split-squats.

[Jesse_01 0]

For beer league, 5'10" 165 isn't so small, but at that size, your biggest asset has to be speed.

You beer league must be full of small guys. Currently I'm bulking a lil and I'm 5'10 220 with 14% bf. My fast yet strong weight is 205ish. A guy my size would push someone who is 165 and put them on their ass with out much effort.

At 165 I would up your intake to 3000-3500 cal's aday. So add in a shake mid morning, mid afternoon, and a shake before bed. That their will give you a extra 1000-1500 cal's a day.

Also when your lifting, make sure you get in, Deadlifts, squats, bench. This works good for beginner's for up a good 9 weeks before they plateau.

Workout A

3x5 Squat

3x5 Bench Press

1x5 Deadlift

Workout B

3x5 Squat

3x5 Standing military press

3x5 Power cleans

You train on 3 nonconsecutive days per week.

So week 1 might look like:

Monday - Workout A

Wednesday - Workout B

Friday - Workout A

Week 2:

Monday - Workout B

Wednesday - Workout A

Friday - Workout B

[TheGasman 0]

Do people not do meal supplements anymore? Im not into weightlifting anymore but it was always a good way to get a 250 calories and 40 grams of protein and 20 grams of carbs. I dont know why I still remember those numbers. I used to drink a shake for breakfast and one about an hour before the gym. You could get the extra calories from the milk too. AST's Nytro Pro 40 was always my favorite.

[gxc999 7]

You beer league must be full of small guys. Currently I'm bulking a lil and I'm 5'10 220 with 14% bf. My fast yet strong weight is 205ish. A guy my size would push someone who is 165 and put them on their ass with out much effort.

Allow me to point out some flaws in your reasoning. 1) Equating size with strength in beer league. 2) Forgetting how much faster you'll be at 165-175 than 215-225 3) 95% of beer leagues are no-check. I'm not trying to be a dick, but please think it over. Speed and strength sans mass is MUCH more useful in beer league than just size unless we're talking Chara big. It's possible to be your size and the fastest, most agile guy, but even in the NHL, that's rare at your specs.

Basically, I do agree with your lifting advice, I think it's a smart program but he doesn't need to try to rush and pack on mass. Up the strength a lot and the mass a little, much easier to keep speed and agility that way.

[Jesse_01 0]

Allow me to point out some flaws in your reasoning. 1) Equating size with strength in beer league. 2) Forgetting how much faster you'll be at 165-175 than 215-225 3) 95% of beer leagues are no-check. I'm not trying to be a dick, but please think it over. Speed and strength sans mass is MUCH more useful in beer league than just size unless we're talking Chara big. It's possible to be your size and the fastest, most agile guy, but even in the NHL, that's rare at your specs.

Basically, I do agree with your lifting advice, I think it's a smart program but he doesn't need to try to rush and pack on mass. Up the strength a lot and the mass a little, much easier to keep speed and agility that way.

With that program he will gain strength over size because its low reps and meant to be heavy reps.

Also like I said my best performance is at 5'10 205 10% bf. If you look into the nhl, say ovi for starters he is 6'2 and 225-233. Crosby is 5'11 200,

But it also depends on your body type. IF your are a lean slender build like sitzlejd who is also probably a hard gainer it would take him a good 3-4yrs of lifting to get up to my size.

Big guy's can have explosive power with agility. Look at the nfl receivers, T.O 6'3 224, Andre Johnson 6'3 225.

So speed, strength, lean mass goes hand in hand with power and agility.

SHAWN HORCOFF won fastest skater at 2009 all star, 6-1 208.

Bill Guerin 6'2 220.

I guess its also what your style of play is. I play stay at home d-fence, or wing. So I'm in corners a lot and in front of the net.

[gxc999 7]

 You make some good points, my man, but remember, all the guys you mentioned are pros, making big dollars and playing major contact sports, and extra mass is just as often useful to cushion/protect as it is to give strength. Again, in beer league, I think it's good to be strong but lean, because speed really is the difference maker and it's just much easier to be faster when lighter. 

[ktang 34]

I'm skeptical too, but Boyle is one of the top hockey-specific trainers in the world. He's been working with BU for decades and has close to a hundred NHL players that work out with him each summer, so he knows something. Since I saw the video I've added the one-leg split squats he talks about to my leg routine, not in place of squats, and my squat has definitely improved.

In one sense you're right, the squat it a total body exercise so it makes the entire body stronger. But if you're lifting to specifically make your legs stronger to improve your skating, the more load you can place directly on your legs, the stronger they're going to get. If you can work your legs harder, through the same range of motion, while still standing, and removing the limiting factor of the lower back, I don't think that can be a bad thing. Granted, you don't want to overdo it or your body gets out of proportion and you're still going to be limited in on-ice performance by the weakest link. I don't think I'll ever totally replace squats, but I do like the additional benefit of the split-squats.

Thanks for posting the Boyle video. It's something for me to think about and try this summer.

[Jesse_01 0]

 You make some good points, my man, but remember, all the guys you mentioned are pros, making big dollars and playing major contact sports, and extra mass is just as often useful to cushion/protect as it is to give strength. Again, in beer league, I think it's good to be strong but lean, because speed really is the difference maker and it's just much easier to be faster when lighter. 

True speed is a difference maker. But I think if you put on 10lbs of lean muscle mass you could be just as fast, if not faster and be stronger on the puck. You will have more power in your stride. Also your prepared just in case the other team is being assholes and getting rough :P

Its the same as do you want the light import with med power? Or the domestic heavier and more power?

No replacement for displacement :D

[Trooper 8]

first he opens up by saying that "squat is not a lower body exercise - it's a lower back exercise" & then concludes "do not do squats"?!

give your head a shake - I think it's pretty lame!

he was asking the right question though re "is the low back the limiting factor" - in case of his "lab rats" it was obviously the case, unfortunately it lead him to a completely wrong conclusion!

squat is a total body exercise, but the chain is obviously as weak at the weakest link. So if the lower back is not strong enough & conditioned to statically hold the weight that is sufficient to load & even overload the legs then the person simply needs to improve on that by doing specific work for the posterior chain. so hypers, reverse hypers, good mornings etc would fix it in no time.

Or, like he says, you could do unilateral exercises that enable you to apply max load to both the back and the legs. That's his point. He's training athletes and has X amount of time to spend with them. He maximizes his gains by eliminating squats and "training to bring up the squat". In particular he trains a lot of hockey players, who would benefit from unilateral movements.

[tjl_48 0]

With that program he will gain strength over size because its low reps and meant to be heavy reps.

I thought it was high weight/ low reps for size?

[Trooper 8]

I thought it was high weight/ low reps for size?

No, look at a bodybuilder's routine vs. a powerlifter. The bodybuilder will have a much higher rep count per set than a powerlifter.

[gxc999 7]

No, look at a bodybuilder's routine vs. a powerlifter. The bodybuilder will have a much higher rep count per set than a powerlifter.

Exactly!

[sitzlejd 0]

True speed is a difference maker. But I think if you put on 10lbs of lean muscle mass you could be just as fast, if not faster and be stronger on the puck. You will have more power in your stride. Also your prepared just in case the other team is being assholes and getting rough :P

Its the same as do you want the light import with med power? Or the domestic heavier and more power?

No replacement for displacement :D

This is exactly what I'm looking to do, add 10 or so pounds of lean muscle. For those of you who have been able to accomplish this, my original question was what foods you ate to gain good weight. Any easy to prepare staples that became a part of your routine? I'd also take shake recommendations. I've been using ON shakes which have good protein but not many calories at all.

[mug25 2]

do free weights at the gym. machines are hack jobs as they concentrate solely on one area. an exercie like free weight squats works all lower body, whereas smith machine doesnt.

plus machines can lead to improper form with one side doing all the work.

How is a smith machine much different than free standing squats? The smith machine doesn't have an assist. It's just guided. Right?

[furlanitalia 1]

Even having it guided will assist because it's keeping the weight on a single plane. You aren't having to worry about balance, you're just pushing the weight.