Sprung Hockey

[Sprungster 5]

All of my first patents have a start date from 1996. You only get 20 years, so they become public domain in about four years. So happens, Mission's Hi-Lo patent is also 1996, and it will be public domain at about the same time. That means anybody can make the products in these patents.

But, we aren't making product from any of our old patents. The Hi-Lo prototypes I co-produced with Mission are the only pair of hockey frames ever made with the OG patents. We have only made products from our new patents, which are much, much better and fresher. So we are covered. It will be very interesting to see what people will try to make.

I know that things look crappy for Sprung, right now, but our new presentations are hard at work and we are dreaming of OEM Skates In All Sizes.

[BenderHockey 127]

Size 8 uses A6s. My PM board is almost always full, so if you can't get through, email me. sprungster9@gmail

Thanks. Email sent.

[Hockey3712 3]

I just mounted my old Bauer 7000's, haven't been on roller skates in over a decade, I can barely skate! The wheel base feels so long it's the opposite of agility.

Wishing so bad that I had some Sprungs right now........

I can't believe these companies are passing up on this. Especially companies with little to no roller hockey prescence, easton, graf, etc...

Keith I would venture to say by the buzz alone on this board, I would start looking for private investors and pour some real $ into your buisiness. Highly doubt it would be anything but a huge sucess. Shiz, I'm tempted to make a large order myself, setup a online storefront and be a distributor.

What size order would be required to receive product immedietly?

Also are their any popular events or trade shows where a booth could be setup to promote the product?

I don't know if NARCH is still around or if they have anything similar. (Been a LONG time since I was involved in roller hockey)

[Sprungster 5]

Any Santa Barbra Sprungsters skating on the indoor rink at UCSB?

[Kanya 3]

I cant speak for Santa Barbra...but I am super happy to finally be getting a set of Sprungs. Bought a set from Fatwabbit last week, he's shipping them from Australia to Scotland for me and I cannot wait to rock these at Scottish and UK tournaments - not seen anyone on them over here to date.

I hope things turnaround and your frames take off - I still cannot believe the attitude of the roller hockey industry to something so revolutionary. Too many of my mates want a set.

[shute 4]

I hope things turnaround and your frames take off - I still cannot believe the attitude of the roller hockey industry to something so revolutionary. Too many of my mates want a set.

I have been using Sprung for a while now, totally love them and going back to a hi-lo setup would be a nightmare for me. I'm a good skater and the Sprungs have made me even better by allowing me to cut corners better than most. I recommend and rave about it in the locker rooms after games. I think it's safe to say that everyone here feels the same way too and for the most part anyone willing to try them. The biggest problem i see is that the sprungs break plain and simple.... you don't know when, you most likely won't even know how and sometimes you won't even know until a game or two later when it suddenly feels like your front or back wheels is stuck on something. If you've used Sprungs long enough them I am sure you'll know what i mean. I think the biggest reason Sprungs has not be adopted by the major players in this market is simple, how would you feel about a $500 pair of skates breaking on you in the first week, month, two months.... They have to stand by their products, the image it brings to a company like Bauer to have a reputation of their skates "breaking" on a high percentage does not bold well. There will always be an aftermarket for everything, things we buy to make what we have even better. Unfortunately some aftermarket parts are just not meant for the big players. Ask yourself why doesn't ever Ford car have standard a nitrous oxide bottle if it makes the car go faster? If sprungster can make a setup that is as durable as a standard chassis then i am sure most of the major players would be all over it, it would be the next hi-lo, maybe that mag chassis he was talking about, but until that happens i myself can't see it being anymore than a aftermarket part.

[Sprungster 5]

I have been using Sprung for a while now, totally love them and going back to a hi-lo setup would be a nightmare for me. I'm a good skater and the Sprungs have made me even better by allowing me to cut corners better than most. I recommend and rave about it in the locker rooms after games. I think it's safe to say that everyone here feels the same way too and for the most part anyone willing to try them. The biggest problem i see is that the sprungs break plain and simple.... you don't know when, you most likely won't even know how and sometimes you won't even know until a game or two later when it suddenly feels like your front or back wheels is stuck on something. If you've used Sprungs long enough them I am sure you'll know what i mean. I think the biggest reason Sprungs has not be adopted by the major players in this market is simple, how would you feel about a $500 pair of skates breaking on you in the first week, month, two months.... They have to stand by their products, the image it brings to a company like Bauer to have a reputation of their skates "breaking" on a high percentage does not bold well. There will always be an aftermarket for everything, things we buy to make what we have even better. Unfortunately some aftermarket parts are just not meant for the big players. Ask yourself why doesn't ever Ford car have standard a nitrous oxide bottle if it makes the car go faster? If sprungster can make a setup that is as durable as a standard chassis then i am sure most of the major players would be all over it, it would be the next hi-lo, maybe that mag chassis he was talking about, but until that happens i myself can't see it being anymore than a aftermarket part.

"They break." is a sweeping generalization. The A6 rocker arms are the issue, and they would have been updated to the strength of the A7/A8 rocker arms, which do not have issues, for any OEM order. Or, better yet, replaced entirely with mag alloy arms. This is how we have pitched it to all of the boot companies, and they all know it. They also know that we do not have the funds or backing to make these changes ourselves without distributor and/or OEM orders. Every major boot company had the opportunity to make a bullet proof version of what we are all using right now. In many cases, for less than their rigid frames.

Every boot company has had the money to make anything they want, and from time to time, they've made boots (at all prices) that came apart within two weeks, on a scale that is staggering. Or boots that are anatomically incorrect for human feet. Or how about wheels that fly apart? Or aluminum frames that bend much too easily.

"There is no aftermarket for frames." That's a quote from the president of one of the major boot companies. He also added that Sprungs might break the rule some. Some. But aftermarket success requires huge amounts of advertising and promotion money, as well an established distribution chain with professional reps that everybody knows, and stores that want to carry your well publicized product that all the players know about and want. All of the reps and distributors work for all the companies that do not want Sprungs for OEMs. All of the stores are serviced by the same people.

If Iceburg had not posted his review on MSH, Sprung would have been out of business before we made the A6s, A7s or A8s. But word spread quickly and we were able to establish a small online sales foothold.

Prior to our unbelievable thread on MSH, another major boot company president told me and Joe Noris, "I'll use Sprungs when they're hurting me." He was, and is, certainly in a position to make sure we can't hurt him. Another major boot company has said they will never use Sprungs, for any reason whatsoever. Another major does not answer email or phone calls. All the doors are locked and barred with Sprung on the outside.

So, even though there is an issue with the A6 rocker arms, "They break." is not the reason Sprung is not with the Big Boys. Look at the size of this thread and tell me that every company out there would not like to have a word of mouth following like Sprung's. There is no Hi-Lo thread. Where's the Humm'er thread? Where's the Tri-Di thread. The boot companies say rigid is best for you because rigid is all they are going to make for you. Plain and simple.

[missionsparta 0]

"They break." is a sweeping generalization. The A6 rocker arms are the issue, and they would have been updated to the strength of the A7/A8 rocker arms, which do not have issues, for any OEM order. Or, better yet, replaced entirely with mag alloy arms. This is how we have pitched it to all of the boot companies, and they all know it. They also know that we do not have the funds or backing to make these changes ourselves without distributor and/or OEM orders. Every major boot company had the opportunity to make a bullet proof version of what we are all using right now. In many cases, for less than their rigid frames.

Every boot company has had the money to make anything they want, and from time to time, they've made boots (at all prices) that came apart within two weeks, on a scale that is staggering. Or boots that are anatomically incorrect for human feet. Or how about wheels that fly apart? Or aluminum frames that bend much too easily.

"There is no aftermarket for frames." That's a quote from the president of one of the major boot companies. He also added that Sprungs might break the rule some. Some. But aftermarket success requires huge amounts of advertising and promotion money, as well an established distribution chain with professional reps that everybody knows, and stores that want to carry your well publicized product that all the players know about and want. All of the reps and distributors work for all the companies that do not want Sprungs for OEMs. All of the stores are serviced by the same people.

If Iceburg had not posted his review on MSH, Sprung would have been out of business before we made the A6s, A7s or A8s. But word spread quickly and we were able to establish a small online sales foothold.

Prior to our unbelievable thread on MSH, another major boot company president told me and Joe Noris, "I'll use Sprungs when they're hurting me." He was, and is, certainly in a position to make sure we can't hurt him. Another major boot company has said they will never use Sprungs, for any reason whatsoever. Another major does not answer email or phone calls. All the doors are locked and barred with Sprung on the outside.

So, even though there is an issue with the A6 rocker arms, "They break." is not the reason Sprung is not with the Big Boys. Look at the size of this thread and tell me that every company out there would not like to have a word of mouth following like Sprung's. There is no Hi-Lo thread. Where's the Humm'er thread? Where's the Tri-Di thread. The boot companies say rigid is best for you because rigid is all they are going to make for you. Plain and simple.

What is Akali's stance?

[Sprungster 5]

What is Akali's stance?

"I'll use Sprungs when they're hurting me."

[Sprungster 5]

Here are two quotes from MSH threads regarding the differences between the various rigid metal chassis. The first is from a player who is simply stating his opinion. The second is from a player who is talking about a specific boot/chassis, he is testing for the manufacturer.

1) "I've never noticed the difference between the various aluminum frames I've used over the years. Maybe they get a little better, lighter, or durable each year but I haven't noticed and I've been using them for 10 years. I use magnesium now and it's lighter (can't speak for the durability though)."

2) "The all 80 chassis isn't too hard to adjust to coming from a Vanguard. It took me 2-3 coaching sessions and a game to really feel confident on them. The harder part for me wasn't the wheel size difference, but the height difference as the Alkali sits higher from the floor than the T9s I have been on since summer. Again it was all of four skates on them to adjust.

As a comparative note, the toe of the CA9 boot sits at almost the same height as the Revision Vanquish skate (which was noted in an IW video that the Vanquish sits approx. 8mm higher from the floor than "traditional height"), but the heel sits just a little lower as the Vanquish needs the difference for the 100mm wheel. It is definitely a different feel coming from a skate that sits lower like a Mission or Tour would, but it is not a hard transition."

[shute 4]

"They break." is a sweeping generalization. The A6 rocker arms are the issue, and they would have been updated to the strength of the A7/A8 rocker arms, which do not have issues, for any OEM order. Or, better yet, replaced entirely with mag alloy arms. This is how we have pitched it to all of the boot companies, and they all know it. They also know that we do not have the funds or backing to make these changes ourselves without distributor and/or OEM orders. Every major boot company had the opportunity to make a bullet proof version of what we are all using right now. In many cases, for less than their rigid frames.

Every boot company has had the money to make anything they want, and from time to time, they've made boots (at all prices) that came apart within two weeks, on a scale that is staggering. Or boots that are anatomically incorrect for human feet. Or how about wheels that fly apart? Or aluminum frames that bend much too easily.

"There is no aftermarket for frames." That's a quote from the president of one of the major boot companies. He also added that Sprungs might break the rule some. Some. But aftermarket success requires huge amounts of advertising and promotion money, as well an established distribution chain with professional reps that everybody knows, and stores that want to carry your well publicized product that all the players know about and want. All of the reps and distributors work for all the companies that do not want Sprungs for OEMs. All of the stores are serviced by the same people.

If Iceburg had not posted his review on MSH, Sprung would have been out of business before we made the A6s, A7s or A8s. But word spread quickly and we were able to establish a small online sales foothold.

Prior to our unbelievable thread on MSH, another major boot company president told me and Joe Noris, "I'll use Sprungs when they're hurting me." He was, and is, certainly in a position to make sure we can't hurt him. Another major boot company has said they will never use Sprungs, for any reason whatsoever. Another major does not answer email or phone calls. All the doors are locked and barred with Sprung on the outside.

So, even though there is an issue with the A6 rocker arms, "They break." is not the reason Sprung is not with the Big Boys. Look at the size of this thread and tell me that every company out there would not like to have a word of mouth following like Sprung's. There is no Hi-Lo thread. Where's the Humm'er thread? Where's the Tri-Di thread. The boot companies say rigid is best for you because rigid is all they are going to make for you. Plain and simple.

If that is indeed true and you have indeed worked out the kinks then i have nothing left to say. It's sad that big companies can't embrace change and innovation when it comes unless they are the ones to do it themselves.

As for Alkali, i'll use them when they are either free or the only hockey boot company left in the world. Their skates might be good now but i've seen enough crap skates to come out of mission when Justin was doing the designs to never try any of his skates again.

[missionsparta 0]

Any word on how we are looking for those of us that pre-ordered? Thanks in advance...

[The Webster 0]

I cant speak for Santa Barbra...but I am super happy to finally be getting a set of Sprungs. Bought a set from Fatwabbit last week, he's shipping them from Australia to Scotland for me and I cannot wait to rock these at Scottish and UK tournaments - not seen anyone on them over here to date.

I hope things turnaround and your frames take off - I still cannot believe the attitude of the roller hockey industry to something so revolutionary. Too many of my mates want a set.

I've worn Sprungs in the UK for nearly 4 years but 3 months ago switched back to a solid chassis. Be aware that the arms break real easy. I've seen 3 guys down here (South) with sprungs.

[shute 4]

I've worn Sprungs in the UK for nearly 4 years but 3 months ago switched back to a solid chassis. Be aware that the arms break real easy. I've seen 3 guys down here (South) with sprungs.

If you've been using the same sprung chassis for the last 4 years then you most likely have the original one which arms do break often but the newer ones have the stronger arms. They still break with the A6 chassis but definitely not easily and hopefully the A6X ones won't break at all.

[Jamie_tnt 6]

By any chance do you play for the commandos? Only seen one person with sprungs and he played for them.

[Justin 1933 134]

As for Alkali, i'll use them when they are either free or the only hockey boot company left in the world. Their skates might be good now but i've seen enough crap skates to come out of mission when Justin was doing the designs to never try any of his skates again.

Sorry to hear you feel this way. I know there are have been some skates that have not lived up to my expectations in the past, but our Alkali skates are very different. Sometimes I tried a new ideas and they failed (i.e DNA Eyelets), but sometimes we came up with ideas that changed the game (thin outsoles, composite material in quarters, past vert eyelets, I could go on and on).

We wish Keith the best of luck, but for us, Sprung, is not the right fit.

[missionsparta 0]

Sorry to hear you feel this way. I know there are have been some skates that have not lived up to my expectations in the past, but our Alkali skates are very different. Sometimes I tried a new ideas and they failed (i.e DNA Eyelets), but sometimes we came up with ideas that changed the game (thin outsoles, composite material in quarters, past vert eyelets, I could go on and on).

We wish Keith the best of luck, but for us, Sprung, is not the right fit.

Justin,

We have heard Keith's side as to why the industry is shying away from his product. Seems that he feels that you guys incorrectly believe that the product has quality issues with breakdowns and physical product failure. I have been on backorder for almost a year now and have been listening to a whole lot of bickering going on about this product. Could you give talk to us about your exact concerns and reasons for going in a differect direction? Would be nice to hear it straight from the manufacturer instead of all this hear-say mixed in with a whole lot of he said / she said's.

Thanks,

JF

[henryb 4]

Yes Justin, I would really like to hear the real story. I can't imagine that you can not see the huge benefit that the Sprung Chasis gives to any ice hockey player, any player for that matter! But really here in Canada were there is a huge percentage of the whole population still play ice hockey and roller leagues are popping up all over! In the GTA, there have been 2 new leagues start up just in the last 2 years. I can count no less then 7 leagues that are operating, each with a noticeable growth rate. A very high percentage of these Roller players are all ice hockey players. Many of them don't play Roller in the winter because it is difficult going back and forth between ice hockey rocker and a flat solid chassis. Sprung completely solves this issue. For a country with 2+ million hockey players... the market for Sprung here in Canada is so wide open... I think you should take another serious look at this. That is just my opinion!

[mhkehoe 1]

It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Justin to reply to their thread anymore than he has. Any sort of reply is bound to lead to people disagreeing with Mission/Alkali's reasons for not going that direction with their skates.

[henryb 4]

It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Justin to reply to their thread anymore than he has. Any sort of reply is bound to lead to people disagreeing with Mission/Alkali's reasons for not going that direction with their skates.

Yes, you're absolutely right. But I would still like to hear his thoughts, but this would not be the right place to put them!

[missionsparta 0]

It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Justin to reply to their thread anymore than he has. Any sort of reply is bound to lead to people disagreeing with Mission/Alkali's reasons for not going that direction with their skates.

I don't know. I would love to hear the real reasoning and would totally respect his decision. I would actually respect Akali more for helping keep me informed before I dump money on a product that has shot past it's original delivery date by almost a year now.

You fill us in Justin, I can guarantee you that a good chunk of us will respect what ever your findings or opinion are. Anyone that jumps on him for keeping us informed is an idiot. Obviously there is something wrong going on if it sounds like the consumers want a product and the manufacturer doesn't want to sell more units by jumping on board. It just seems with all the pussy footing around that there is a lot more going on than what we are being told.

[Jim A 4]

Justin definitely doesn't owe this forum a behind doors business decision. This website also doesn't represent the normal hockey player.

If you guys push back on items like this, you will lose the transparency that he and some others within the industry provide to MSH. It's not a duty or a service on their behalf.

He showed some serious professionalism and taking the high road after what was aired earlier in the thread.

I've detailed my own experiences on Sprung in this thread. They are positive. However, my experiences with basically every other company and set up have been as well.

On the ice side, everyone has a preferred holder/runner setup. No different in roller. 50 different people, you won't get the same exact setup.

Innovation isn't always popular with the masses. How good of an idea was the Pitch holder? How many people even gave it some thought outside of the boot itself. Not many, and those that came into buy skates rarely did as well.

[romdj 26]

Justin definitely doesn't owe this forum a behind doors business decision. This website also doesn't represent the normal hockey player.

If you guys push back on items like this, you will lose the transparency that he and some others within the industry provide to MSH. It's not a duty or a service on their behalf.

He showed some serious professionalism and taking the high road after what was aired earlier in the thread.

I've detailed my own experiences on Sprung in this thread. They are positive. However, my experiences with basically every other company and set up have been as well.

On the ice side, everyone has a preferred holder/runner setup. No different in roller. 50 different people, you won't get the same exact setup.

Innovation isn't always popular with the masses. How good of an idea was the Pitch holder? How many people even gave it some thought outside of the boot itself. Not many, and those that came into buy skates rarely did as well.

I agree with you, there are things that I just don't get... how come that when you buy top of the line skates, more often then not, we still have to buy aftermarket footbeds?

It seems that easton are working on that.

Anyway,If it was up to my decision, I'd add 100$ for top of the line skates and include a pro hockey graf/Sidas footbed or whatever...

Pitch holder is a good example as well.

I'd also add in a system to customize the holder position, as our center of gravity isn't distributed the same way for each and everyone of us... but that's more complicated since holders are riveted..

Coming back to the sprung vs manufacturer relationship, I would be really interested in seeing how well would a Limited Edition CA9 with a sprung frame work.

Or just as you choose the size, there is an option in which you choose your own frames for 50-100$ more than msrp (because it has to be made on the spot or ordered from the manufacturer).

I do think that skates have come a long way, but sit back and relax and producing "more of the same" is safe, but I don't see anything been brought up by alkali that I cannot find somewhere else (flat 80 setup, labeda wheels, swiss bearings, heat moldable boot etc etc...)

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

I agree with you, there are things that I just don't get... how come that when you buy top of the line skates, more often then not, we still have to buy aftermarket footbeds?

The reason why is because when you get into specialized footbeds, you alienate those who may not use those specialized footbeds. Example - you put out a skate that comes with a great footbed for pronators. What happens to the normal-arched and the supinators? They try on the skate and absolutely hate it.

That's why you put a standard footbed in there - if you need something different, you get the footbed that works for your foot.

[romdj 26]

The reason why is because when you get into specialized footbeds, you alienate those who may not use those specialized footbeds. Example - you put out a skate that comes with a great footbed for pronators. What happens to the normal-arched and the supinators? They try on the skate and absolutely hate it.

That's why you put a standard footbed in there - if you need something different, you get the footbed that works for your foot.

That's why I was talking about custom-made footbeds (graf/sidas' custom hockey footbed to be more specific) rather than superfeet (which have a standardized shape as well therefore not solving the issue you were on about).

And the reason I'm saying this is that imho, many people don't value the importance of footbeds, (and providing custom for a 1K$ skate isn't outrageous from my perspective).

Offering custom footbed as a standard might bring a lot of advantages for the people that haven't put thought into the footbed part of the skate.