One90 Transition and Skate Profiling

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Hehee, guess my question was rather ambiguous.  :D

think about this video the next time you walk into that standalone shop where they get you to write your position and weight and have you walk in bare feet and give you a "custom" radius based on that.

This is what I meant when I said "walk in the store." What do those (edit) guys look for when watching a guy walk, before you decide on the profile? I walked alright, but not barefoot.

You cant see from some one walking on a floor what profile they need you have to see them skate. That is why I needed hockeymom to do the video and with just one minute of video the 2nd video was the result. Nw not saying eveyone can do this I have been doing it at the Pro level for a number of years now but there are some guys on here that can.

The best thing to do is try a couple diffrent guys out see how they feel and go from there. you will eventually find one.

.

You know, Jeff & JR... I've been thinking about this (always dangerous) and I think there actually might be a sideline in this. Nothing that you could retire on - after all, the majority of people aren't aware of what hollow they skate on, let alone what an EXPERT, correct profile can do.

For years I have had people ask me if there is something to this skate profile stuff... and I've always answered "I don't know, it depends on how they do it". As you guys know, I firmly believe that it can't be done through a questionaire or by watching how someone walks.

The problem is there just aren't many people out there who have the knowledge of skates, skating and feet... to be able to put together the whole picture. Although a player might be able to find a local place that has the equipment to do the work - most of those LHS people wouldn't have the synthesis of knowledge to be ABLE to do what you guys can do. (Look at how hard it is to get a good sharpening). So, it strikes me the "thinking" person out there, who wouldn't be able to "give up" their skates to ship them to be done - just might be VERY happy to pay to have someone analyze their skating and give a recommendation/template for their local shop.

And remember, it is not the time it takes to look at the video that they'd pay for, it is the years of experience and synthesis of knowledge that has you be able to figure it out that is invaluable.

OTG - There were three things that really stood out for me in this process: one was Diane whimpering out loud when she saw/heard you drill for the heel lifts (I am evil LOL); the other was during the fitting process when you had her take off her sock so you could see the shape of her feet (stop with the foot fetish jokes, JR); and the big one was watching you watch the video of her skating. I was fascinated listening to you notice and decide what needed to be done to increase her mobility. THAT you simply can't get from a questionaire, nor can you get it from someone who doesn't understand the whole dynamic.

Thank you......

[Chadd 916]

The biggest problem I see is all the hacks that would claim to have the skills to accurately read the demonstrations.

I agree i think you could A use Max Egde dealers as a basic place to start as well as have interviews with people wanting to do business with people from the board....

That's funny. Most M-E shops I've seen are just as bad as any other shop, they just charge more. Please don't get me started on that scam again.

[DarkStar50 679]

In our shop, Jim does all high end figure boot/blade fittings by appointment only. This guy spends all day in the service room. He has over 30 years experience with figure skates. Here in metro NYC he has customers come in from Conneticut and Pennsylvania. Part of every custom fitting is the on-ice skate to check the blade/boot setting before the final screw setting. He won't set the final screws in the sole until he watches each skater on their new boots on the ice. It makes a huge difference when you know what you are looking for and know how to correct it. These points hockeymom, JR, Chadd, and OTG are making are all important and true.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

The biggest problem I see is all the hacks that would claim to have the skills to accurately read the demonstrations.

I agree i think you could A use Max Egde dealers as a basic place to start as well as have interviews with people wanting to do business with people from the board....

That's funny. Most M-E shops I've seen are just as bad as any other shop, they just charge more. Please don't get me started on that scam again.

Agreed with Chadd. One of the aforementioned shops (the pre-printed sticker shop) is a Max Edge store. Just because they pay Bob gobs of money doesn't make them good - it just gives them the name. The three M-E dealers in this area are known for be nothing special.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

The biggest problem I see is all the hacks that would claim to have the skills to accurately read the demonstrations.

I agree i think you could A use Max Egde dealers as a basic place to start as well as have interviews with people wanting to do business with people from the board....

That's funny. Most M-E shops I've seen are just as bad as any other shop, they just charge more. Please don't get me started on that scam again.

Agreed with Chadd. One of the aforementioned shops (the pre-printed sticker shop) is a Max Edge store. Just because they pay Bob gobs of money doesn't make them good - it just gives them the name. The three M-E dealers in this area are known for be nothing special.

Let me me rephrase that then a good Max Edge Shop (because the actual Process is the Key) would be a good place to start. Its not just the tools used and what you pay to Bob...you actually have to do what he says to get the job done right....I havent seen anyone yet with a better more common sense process that does a better job. Of course that means you actually have to know what your doing and care about it.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Much better :) The problem with a few of those is that they think they can just rely on the name.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Much better :) The problem with a few of those is that they think they can just rely on the name.

you are totally right there JR. You cant rely on it but you can always ask Bob for a reference to a paticular shop. tere was some shops that were doing a shit job when i worked at a member place abd we told him and he revoked there privilages because of all the complaints.

Its a geat process you just have to do the whole thing by the book.

Mind you I havent been able to do that at my new work but adapted a similar process that Bob had no issues with because I didnt copy any of the pattens.

There are few guys like him around with as much extra knowledge not just the practical knowledge.

When I first started at the old place I was told I had to to 500 pairs of practice skates before doing customers skates.

I still think and wish I could do that to all the staff I train. Have to say though the increase in business over the last 2 years has shown what a good job 90 % of them do.

[yvan12 0]

First off, let me say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread. There is a lot of expertise here. I have been fitting and sharpening skates for a little over 26 years now and hopefully I have learned a thing or two during that time. 1. Having a profile done on your skate is never a bad thing, unless it is done wrong.2. Walking on a carpet will tell you nothing about how a person skates. 3. A good skate fit and sharpening, like a 1 piece stick, will enhance your skill, but it can not give you a skill. Only practice will do that. 4. When you find a good sharpener, stick with them. Consistency is paramount. 5. Analysis is good, over-analyzing is disasterous (and possibly expensive). A couple of questions if I may: OTG and JR, did you check the blade alignment on Diane's skates? From the video, it looks like she may not be over her blades as well as she could be. This will affect her power, balance, and her ability to do an agressive cross-over. With the heel wedges OTG put in (which I agree with), Diane should be much quicker on her cross-overs. Hockeymom, Diane is very lucky to have you being so concerned about her progress and success, and you are very lucky to have a daughter that wants to work and get better at her game. The second video shows definite improvement, but she looks like she is still pretty straight-legged, but I may be wrong. Getting her some ice time where she could just skate drills (without stick and puck) would surely help her get better. Once again, I have enjoyed this discussion and I learned a couple of things to boot. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

First off, let me say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread. There is a lot of expertise here. I have been fitting and sharpening skates for a little over 26 years now and hopefully I have learned a thing or two during that time. 1. Having a profile done on your skate is never a bad thing, unless it is done wrong.2. Walking on a carpet will tell you nothing about how a person skates. 3. A good skate fit and sharpening, like a 1 piece stick, will enhance your skill, but it can not give you a skill. Only practice will do that. 4. When you find a good sharpener, stick with them. Consistency is paramount. 5. Analysis is good, over-analyzing is disasterous (and possibly expensive). A couple of questions if I may: OTG and JR, did you check the blade alignment on Diane's skates? From the video, it looks like she may not be over her blades as well as she could be. This will affect her power, balance, and her ability to do an agressive cross-over. With the heel wedges OTG put in (which I agree with), Diane should be much quicker on her cross-overs. Hockeymom, Diane is very lucky to have you being so concerned about her progress and success, and you are very lucky to have a daughter that wants to work and get better at her game. The second video shows definite improvement, but she looks like she is still pretty straight-legged, but I may be wrong. Getting her some ice time where she could just skate drills (without stick and puck) would surely help her get better. Once again, I have enjoyed this discussion and I learned a couple of things to boot. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Come on there Yvan you taught me a thing or 2 long time agao...LOL And yes I did check the alighnemtn. After watching it again I think what it might be is a little more toe might have to come off to get a nice flow in that profile.

I also learned just recently that due to women in most part having longer legs there might be something having to give tham even more lean forward than a guy.

I havent tested it all out yet but will do at camp next week.

[biff44 0]

What size skate?

Skates are 9D. So does the 11.5' radius make sense?

The skate blade has a slight rounded curve to it. If you drew a circle on the ground with an 11 1/2 foot radius (ie 23 foot diameter) and laid the skate blade on its flat side along a small segment of that circle, the blade profile would follow the circle perimeter.

The bigger the profile radius, the flatter the blade would be.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

9D

What kind of skates? Sorry I missed the post. And for most people that is a little long for regular hockey. What kind of hockey do you play what position what type of skate.

[tsanga 0]

9D

What kind of skates? Sorry I missed the post. And for most people that is a little long for regular hockey. What kind of hockey do you play what position what type of skate.

Bauer 5090. I'm a beer leaguer that plays all positions.

I just had them take it down to 11' radius w/ 5/8" hollow to see how I like it.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

9D

What kind of skates? Sorry I missed the post. And for most people that is a little long for regular hockey. What kind of hockey do you play what position what type of skate.

Bauer 5090. I'm a beer leaguer that plays all positions.

I just had them take it down to 11' radius w/ 5/8" hollow to see how I like it.

Ok yes but did they check the Blade hieghts front and rear around were the posts are on the Custom Tuuk Plus? If it was profiled with out adjusting the itch then you will be on a reverese lean as thats how the old Tuuks come.

Blade hieghts should be about 16/32nds front and rear unless you want a forward lean.

As long as there is the same amount of blade fron to back and from skate to skate.

a 32nd of an inch at your skate feels like a bout a half inch in your hips. So if you if you have one blade higher than another that could afffect the profile.

[tsanga 0]

There's a 1mm (slightly bigger than 1/32") forward lean on the blade by my request. I like to be on my toes. And the extra steel at the toe has been taken down.

Edit: Just skated for the first time after going from 1/2" to 5/8" hollow. Felt slippery at first but after a while the pivots and forward/backward transitions seemed easier. But it seemed like I have to re-learn how to sprint start.

[Chadd 916]

There's a 1mm (slightly bigger than 1/32") forward lean on the blade by my request. I like to be on my toes. And the extra steel at the toe has been taken down.

Edit: Just skated for the first time after going from 1/2" to 5/8" hollow. Felt slippery at first but after a while the pivots and forward/backward transitions seemed easier. But it seemed like I have to re-learn how to sprint start.

Keep the skates under you and you'll be fine. The shallow hollow bites a lot less if the skate is farther away from your body.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

There's a 1mm (slightly bigger than 1/32") forward lean on the blade by my request. I like to be on my toes. And the extra steel at the toe has been taken down.

Edit: Just skated for the first time after going from 1/2" to 5/8" hollow. Felt slippery at first but after a while the pivots and forward/backward transitions seemed easier. But it seemed like I have to re-learn how to sprint start.

Well sounds like a good profile job to me? You should get who ever is doing your skates to stone the skates on the holder before the last pass in order to get a really crisp edge. Works wonders.

[tsanga 0]

Well sounds like a good profile job to me?

Haha other than the fact that you (or anybody else) didn't watch me skate before doing the profile. Just filled in some info sheet and walked up and down the store aisle.

[Timber 0]

When referring to a +1 mm pitch or a 1/32" forward lean, is this verified by measuring the steel height at mid rear tower and subtracting it from the steel height at the mid front tower?

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well sounds like a good profile job to me?

Haha other than the fact that you (or anybody else) didn't watch me skate before doing the profile. Just filled in some info sheet and walked up and down the store aisle.

I repeat "SOUNDS" like a good profile doesnt mean it is the best one for you.

OOPs sorry on that one! If you wouldnt mind Editing that again my apoligies very very long day just got home!

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

When referring to a +1 mm pitch or a 1/32" forward lean, is this verified by measuring the steel height at mid rear tower and subtracting it from the steel height at the mid front tower?

Measuring at the Mid front tower and subtracting from the mid rear tower is correct yes!

Unless you leave the steel neutral and put in a heel lift for the forward lean.

[tsanga 0]

Well sounds like a good profile job to me?

Haha other than the fact that you (or anybody else) didn't watch me skate before doing the profile. Just filled in some info sheet and walked up and down the store aisle.

I repeat "SOUNDS" like a good profile doesnt mean it is the best one for you. Dont be such a smart ass. Just because you get a good job as you have obiviously had it done before as you had a preference to what you wanted...if you told me all the info filled in the "SHEET" I could halfway guess to what I would do and you would probably like it.

The Whole video idea was a fluke and just happened to work really really well.

Do you think when I do the OHL guys I just look and guess or have them fill out a sheet?

It is really simple on order to get the best profile for any player "YOU MUST SEE THEM SKATE" to get the "BEST" profile.

So now that you think your such a smart guy go find another thread to bother people on.....I cant believe you waisted allthose posts just to think you made a HAHAHAH comment.....

Whoa OTG....

I think you got me totally wrong here. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic at all. I'm learning a helluva lot from this thread. I was just saying jokingly that too bad nobody saw me skate before making the profile. I wrote in an earlier post that nobody around here is able to offer the services that you do. You said it seemed like a good profile, and I said, "Yeah right, we'll see, since nobody saw me skate and I just filled in a sheet of paper to get it. Haha." And no, I have not had this done before. I had it done the first time by filling in a sheet of paper, then as I described earlier in the thread, the radius felt too long, and I had to go back to get another adjustment. Now if someone actually evaluated my skating beforehand it may have been right the first time.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Again very sorry for the rant really long day and just checking the site and thought it was something it wasnt!

can you say dumb dumb!!! I can...LOL

[hockeydoc 0]

Wow, this is enlightening. This info gives me amo to assist me when I go in to get my daughter some new skates.

I just had a few questions. Can you give me an idea of the pitch of different skates, (stock). My daughter too is in Mission medium level skates. I am fairly ignorant, but my guess is that she needs her heels raised more than she has. This is after watching hockeymom's video then reading this thread. My girl has played a bit of select inline, and only been on ice 8 months. She has made a boys select ice team, and I have blamed her stride on inline. But as much as that may be a contributing factor, I think some of the issues here may be valueable.

Either way I also have found that the mission skate she is useing breaks down quite quickly, as I use the same skate and know my boot was never what I would call stiff, but is now soft. Comfy, but shiite to skate in.

Next, the cut I have on her skates is 7/16. How does going to a shallower cut affect her stride. I actually moved her from a 1/2 because she kept complaining that her skates felt as if they needed to be sharpened.

I too am new to Ice, and realize my ignorance, but down south I struggle getting qualified assistance. Thanks for the help, and patience.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Wow, this is enlightening. This info gives me amo to assist me when I go in to get my daughter some new skates.

I just had a few questions. Can you give me an idea of the pitch of different skates, (stock). My daughter too is in Mission medium level skates. I am fairly ignorant, but my guess is that she needs her heels raised more than she has. This is after watching hockeymom's video then reading this thread. My girl has played a bit of select inline, and only been on ice 8 months. She has made a boys select ice team, and I have blamed her stride on inline. But as much as that may be a contributing factor, I think some of the issues here may be valueable.

Either way I also have found that the mission skate she is useing breaks down quite quickly, as I use the same skate and know my boot was never what I would call stiff, but is now soft. Comfy, but shiite to skate in.

Next, the cut I have on her skates is 7/16. How does going to a shallower cut affect her stride. I actually moved her from a 1/2 because she kept complaining that her skates felt as if they needed to be sharpened.

I too am new to Ice, and realize my ignorance, but down south I struggle getting qualified assistance. Thanks for the help, and patience.

Well with out seeing her foot from all angles to say what skate she should be in is a tough call. Although that being said a typical female foot is more common than most guys for soem reason. Typically they are wider in the front narrow in the heel with a slight instep.

What of those does she not have?

Also the best thing to do is take the insole out of her ice skate now take a picture of that to see where her toe is now.

Also you need the total length of her foot.

Then once the desicion her skate is fitting correctly then you can Profile them from there.

Without the other answers first a profile is no good if the skate doesnt fit the foot properly.

[hockeydoc 0]

True her foot is wide at the front, narrow at the heel. Instep...I donno...what's that?

Now that you mention it, she's in a Mission size 7, and it is a size to big. They were bought for her mom. I hadn't even thought of that, but I will start with measureing her foot. Her Inline skates are Mission size 6.5, and are a higher end boot, i.e. stiffer.

All the hockey shops here have High School kids sharpening, and I rarely get a consistant cut much less a consistant answer on any other I ask them about.

The issue I noticed from Hockey mom's video was that her girls stride seemed to be more straight legged as my daughter's is. And now feel that getting her the right skates will help her tremendously. But as you so aptly pointed out, her pitch and all other issues are dramatically different ass soon as I get her in some skates that fit.

Thanks again.