So I bought my first pair of skates from a LHS...

[ktang 34]

What if the fitting fee were refundable when the skates are purchased?

E.g. $10 fitting fee, and if the customer buys skates from the store, the $10 fitting fee is refunded. Sometimes the store doesn't have a skate that fits the customer's foot shape, too.

[icefish 0]

The whole reason I went in there was to finally BUY skates in a store after two unsuccessful guesses at what size I was. Which is why I was probably more insulted because I was there to buy skates that day. So no, the "thread poster" was not there to try skates on and buy them online.

It was one thing when he made a comment about me buying skates online. That's fine and I can take a joke. But when he implied that I was only there to waste his staff's time, then I was mad. Just because I never bought skates there prior does not mean I have not been a customer of other items.

I need to go back to get the skates heat molded tomorrow. I might bring it up as a second point that I'm still bothered by his comment.

[santiclaws 0]

Sorry, but if anyone told me there was a "fitting fee" I'd turn around and walk out. I understand the idea, but most LHS's have a pretty limited selection of skates, so if I want to go to 3-4 different places to try different skates, I have to plunk down $30-$40 to pay for the privilege of attempting to give you my business? Let's keep in mind that in many LHS's you don't get a trained pro helping you with a fitting, you really do get a hockey monkey.

I'm wondering why hockey stores are so up in arms about the issue as to start charging for their time - I understand the annoyance of it and I sure would be pissed at those "customers." But, are you really losing a lot of money? These non-customers are wasting your time, yes. But is that waste of a timel resulting in a loss of a sale to an actual customer every time?

Every other store which sells big ticket items, from electronics to musical instruments, whether a mom and pop place or a BestBuy also has internet competition with the internet prices being dramatically lower most of the time. They get the internet shoppers too. I can't imagine them even having the idea of charging potential customers to try items in the store. This is the modern world, the internet is not going away, and you're always going to get assholes who just come in to try out stuff they'll buy elsewhere. Infuriating, I'm sure, but today, a part of the cost of doing business which is here to stay.

[TBLfan 25]

^^^^ there is NEVER a reason for someone running a buisness to make that comment period. If he suspects that someone is going to try in store and buy online all he has to do is ask... no problem there. But I personally draw the line at being rude and disrespectful. And If I was planning on doing something like that I'd let them know right off the bat and offer to at least tip them for their time. Luckily my LHS is awesome, their prices aren't horrible and they're helpful... They also leave you alone when you're browsing because you know sometimes you just want to look at something without someone trying to sell you something.

^^^ I think that's what they were talking about. I would expect that they would give a reciept and maybe write their name down to give them the refund if they came in at a later date too.

[sc37 0]

Sorry, but if anyone told me there was a "fitting fee" I'd turn around and walk out. I understand the idea, but most LHS's have a pretty limited selection of skates, so if I want to go to 3-4 different places to try different skates, I have to plunk down $30-$40 to pay for the privilege of attempting to give you my business? Let's keep in mind that in many LHS's you don't get a trained pro helping you with a fitting, you really do get a hockey monkey.

I'm wondering why hockey stores are so up in arms about the issue as to start charging for their time - I understand the annoyance of it and I sure would be pissed at those "customers." But, are you really losing a lot of money? These non-customers are wasting your time, yes. But is that waste of a timel resulting in a loss of a sale to an actual customer every time?

Every other store which sells big ticket items, from electronics to musical instruments, whether a mom and pop place or a BestBuy also has internet competition with the internet prices being dramatically lower most of the time. They get the internet shoppers too. I can't imagine them even having the idea of charging potential customers to try items in the store. This is the modern world, the internet is not going away, and you're always going to get assholes who just come in to try out stuff they'll buy elsewhere. Infuriating, I'm sure, but today, a part of the cost of doing business which is here to stay.

I understand some of you all on these boards about fitting fee, and totally support that. But that's cause you guys actually know what your doing, or at least sounds like it from what I gather on these boards :D But if I had to pay a fitting fee at my LHS, then I'd look elsewhere cause it's a buncha high schoolers and stuff working there. I haven't really gotten good service every time I'm there...they usually hang around the counter and sit in front of the computer. Any answers to questions I've got are usually non-informative.

[TBLfan 25]

Sorry, but if anyone told me there was a "fitting fee" I'd turn around and walk out. I understand the idea, but most LHS's have a pretty limited selection of skates, so if I want to go to 3-4 different places to try different skates, I have to plunk down $30-$40 to pay for the privilege of attempting to give you my business? Let's keep in mind that in many LHS's you don't get a trained pro helping you with a fitting, you really do get a hockey monkey.

I'm wondering why hockey stores are so up in arms about the issue as to start charging for their time - I understand the annoyance of it and I sure would be pissed at those "customers." But, are you really losing a lot of money? These non-customers are wasting your time, yes. But is that waste of a timel resulting in a loss of a sale to an actual customer every time?

Every other store which sells big ticket items, from electronics to musical instruments, whether a mom and pop place or a BestBuy also has internet competition with the internet prices being dramatically lower most of the time. They get the internet shoppers too. I can't imagine them even having the idea of charging potential customers to try items in the store. This is the modern world, the internet is not going away, and you're always going to get assholes who just come in to try out stuff they'll buy elsewhere. Infuriating, I'm sure, but today, a part of the cost of doing business which is here to stay.

well I think it's obvious that if they dont have a size you would fit in that they wouldn't bother taking your money and wasting your time as well. And there is normally not a lot of guys that work in a proshop so if you're helping someone for 20 mins how many people might walk in and out in that time, all of those are potential customers. Sure it's not everytime but regardless you're getting a service done for you and you should pay for that service or buy something. Time is money and the more time you spend the more money you're costing the owner of the shop.

[DarkStar50 680]

Sorry santa, in the world of business, LHS or Best Buy or the Mercedes-Benz dealer, time is money. If you spend our time with the intent of not making a purchase at the start of the process, yes, the business is losing money. How is the business losing money? The time spent with the customer with no intent to purchase is time not spent with the other customer waiting in the store to spend money! Which customer would you want to help?

Any fitting fee would be put towards the purchase of skates at the shop. In 28 years, I have never charged a fitting fee once. I may have implied I would, with the fee put towards the purchase should you decide later to buy in the shop. So maybe the fitting fee is the trump card the shop holds to tell the prospects from the suspects.

There are all kinds of LHS guys on this board. We consider this our business and our livelihood. Ask to have the owner or shop manager help you when you are ready to purchase skates. You will be treated professionally and with respect. Just give it back, too.

Could everyone who is upset with the service at their LHS at least tell us what state or province they are shopping in? I would be interested in finding out where the problem shops are.

[hamstercaster 2]

The whole reason I went in there was to finally BUY skates in a store after two unsuccessful guesses at what size I was. Which is why I was probably more insulted because I was there to buy skates that day. So no, the "thread poster" was not there to try skates on and buy them online.

It was one thing when he made a comment about me buying skates online. That's fine and I can take a joke. But when he implied that I was only there to waste his staff's time, then I was mad. Just because I never bought skates there prior does not mean I have not been a customer of other items.

I need to go back to get the skates heat molded tomorrow. I might bring it up as a second point that I'm still bothered by his comment.

I know you weren't there to try skates and run home and buy them off Ebay. But from the owner's perspective, you may have been there for that reason. Seeing as you bought your last two pairs online, I don't think you should have felt that insulted, although, you never used your LHS before to size your skates before buying them online. The guy had a huntch and it was a bad huntch, kinda like a bad itch lol.. I was only trying to play the devil's advocate. You could have shut him easily while still buying there and he would have apologized. You could simply have said: Sir, I did indeed by my last two pairs online but was never in here or any other LHS for skate sizing and than run home and buy skates online. Now that I have had two bad expriences with buying skates online I decided it was time to visit my LHS and get good skates fitted properly and purchase them on the spot.. He would have quickly apologized and you may even have had a discount lol... You know, it's easier said then done to be polite and give good customer service. I've worked in the fast food industry and all the crap we had to go through with customers, it made it very difficult not to snap at a customer trying to scam you. Some people have more patience and a higher tolerance level than others. It does not excuse his gesture but you gotta understand where he's coming from. He may have seen his business income drop by 10, 20% or more because of the internet and he must have had more than his share of people going in his store to size pants, skates, gloves, helmets, even sticks etc and then leave and go buy elsewhere or off the net. Times are difficult for the LHS and some can barely survive so you can't be too mad at them for having a bad day.

[mack 44]

In Alaska (Anchorage at least) you have two choices, a LHS and PIAS. For years it was only the LHS then PIAS came to town and slowly took over, mainly because their prices were more reasonable. Customer service is moot as both places are more "car dealership" than mom and pop.

PIAS has had its prices come up to snuff with the LHS ($200 for an SL, $99 for an Ultra Lite, etc) but they still have better service but not by much. Truth be told I only got my skates at the PIAS because they'd do custom orders or I'd be right on the Internet bandwagon. I truly do understand and back up the LHS's plight against the Internet but some places just give you no choice.

[icefish 0]

I wouldnt say this place is a bad hockey shop. They have a decent selection of stuff and certain prices arent bad at all. It was just that comment that annoyed me. What if I wanted to buy them the next day or week later? Would they NOT let me try on skates if I didnt have a short lunch break and was in a hurry to buy them?

I wonder how many times the owner has said that to someone, and if those someones were people that were planning on buying internet skates, I wonder what they did in response.

[santiclaws 0]

Sorry santa, in the world of business, LHS or Best Buy or the Mercedes-Benz dealer, time is money. If you spend our time with the intent of not making a purchase at the start of the process, yes, the business is losing money. How is the business losing money? The time spent with the customer with no intent to purchase is time not spent with the other customer waiting in the store to spend money! Which customer would you want to help?

I'm well aware that time is money and there are occasions when you will spend time with a guy who has no intention of buying from you while a legitimate customer walks out the door because he doesn't want to wait anymore. All I'm saying is that it doesn't happen every time -- a lot of times when I walk into one of my local stores, I'm the only guy there. Other times, I've waited when the salespeople were helping someone else and didn't walk out. If I need something, I need it.

In any case, I just don't think there's anything you can do about it. You can't risk pissing off legitimate customers to make sure you don't waste time on "fake" customers. It sucks, but I really don't see any way out of it. Just something you are going to have to chalk up to the "cost of doing business" like other retail store owners. Some people still appreciate good service and are willing to pay for it, but that attitude seems to be going the way of the dodo bird (as is good service).

[TBLfan 25]

It might not happen every time but that doesn't change the fact that they are using a service which is being taken advantage of when someone buys online.

And I don't see how you couldn't inquire whether they were going to buy online or in-store and explain the benefits of buying in-store. Because if you think about it you might pay what $100 more for some skates at a LHS? Well they give you a free first sharpening, free baking/molding, free profiling, free fitting and will work with you if you have a problem with the skates(or at least my LHS does)...

First sharpening = $25

Baking/molding = $25

Profiling = $20

Fitting = $10 :P

Willing to work with you if you're not happy could be the cost of new skates so = $200-$500

And then you normally don't have to wait a week to get your skates. Often if you have a problem with them they'll fix them for you for cheap or free. There's soo many benefits for buying in-store... The only real limitation is stock(the reason I bought my skates online, my LHS didn't have the old 952/pro tacks just the new pro tacks).

[mack 44]

I wonder if Payless Shoes has these kinds of problems. People go in to get sized for some Hush Puppies and then they go home to just get them off Zappos.com. The audacity...

[mcg 0]

The guy helping me said to his boss "hey he said he bought a 7.5 in the flexlite and 7 in the missions, but both dont fit right.." then the boss replies "let me guess, bought em off the internet? so you're here to try some skates on and go home and buy em on the internet, ok.. good luck". I got kinda pissed at that comment, no one should have to hear something like that.

It's a little irritating that I've bought stuff from them before and I have to hear that crap so after my purchase, I went back to the boss and told him I didnt appreciate that comment.

The only reason you got that is because a majority of the people these days would rather do business with an online retailer.

Actually the opposite. Who want's to buy skates from a "phone bank order person" who prob knows nothing about hockey. Still, I find it hard to believe the store owner would say that unless he was burnt by that specific customer before. I don't know how he could conclude that the former purchases were from a online site. Nevertheless, I have many customers that come in with wrong size skates purchased at big chain hockey stores, so getting wrong sized skates is not just a internet problem. And I would never make a snide comment like that guy allegedly did. If he did, it's prob built up frustration from being ripped off by the interet buyers who repeatedly use his store as a showroom and sizing tool.

One more vote for sizing fees.

People like you further the success of online businesses.

If someone is willing to come to your store and spend a lot more money on something that they could get online for much less, they shouldn't have to put up with your pessimistic, douche-bag attitude.

I fully support LHS'. Just not ones being run with guys like you.

[deadmanjolt 1]

Actually, my LHS DID missize me on my first pair of hockey skates a few years back. Maybe it's just a CA thing, but they have since become one of the smaller internet retailers. Monkey and Giant have stores locally, and that is where I go when I need something, since I enjoy driving out that way in any case.

The pro shops here (california) tend to do a piss poor job of sharpening, at least at the several in my local area. The best guy has been a father of a figure skater who sharpens skates out of his garage.

[mew1838 0]

Well not all LHS give good service, and I believe its worth it to buy online if your LHS sucks.

[hamstercaster 2]

I can see getting poor service from some places in the States, at least when it comes to hockey equipment as they may be less knowlodgeable since places like Calfornia, Arizona and such are not what we could call hockey havens. Here in Canada, at least everywhere I've went, they hire people who know there stuff and/or get proper training on the most played sports in the area and at least a bit of knowledge on less popular sports. There are usually more than one of these stores per area too so we do tend to get somewhat better pricing because of the other competing stores in the area, but that's not to say that they are cheaper or on par with online merchants. They are pricier but as TB was mentionning, you at least get a first sharpening, baking and stuff for free on top of having them fitted properly which you can't get from your online retailer. On top of that, for guys like me who prefer T-Blades, you can't get your online retailer to fit them on your new skates so that's one more bonus point going towards my LHS

[hockeyherb 1]

I'd like to hear from LHS workers/owners how they respond when someone is up front and tells them that they are looking to buy an item online because the price is $x lower than theirs?

I think it's fair for customers to offer the LHS a chance to make the sale if there is a big price difference and put the onus on the store to decide if it's business they want to go after or just let them go and buy off the internet.

Also, as to fitting fees - I just wonder how people would feel if you went to a car dealer and they said there is a test drive fee. They could legitimately be concerned that you'll waste the salesman's time with a test drive and then go shop at another dealer in town or buy off eBay Motors.

My point is that practically EVERY business has competition of some sort and even though there will always be pain in the ass nickel and dime customers that will cross the street to save $2, you can't chase away legitimate customers. If your business can't win them over based on service or other intangibles, then that's just Darwinism at work. Not every business SHOULD remain viable.

[TBLfan 25]

I can see getting poor service from some places in the States, at least when it comes to hockey equipment as they may be less knowlodgeable since places like Calfornia, Arizona and such are not what we could call hockey havens. Here in Canada, at least everywhere I've went, they hire people who know there stuff and/or get proper training on the most played sports in the area and at least a bit of knowledge on less popular sports. There are usually more than one of these stores per area too so we do tend to get somewhat better pricing because of the other competing stores in the area, but that's not to say that they are cheaper or on par with online merchants. They are pricier but as TB was mentionning, you at least get a first sharpening, baking and stuff for free on top of having them fitted properly which you can't get from your online retailer. On top of that, for guys like me who prefer T-Blades, you can't get your online retailer to fit them on your new skates so that's one more bonus point going towards my LHS

It's not about where you're located that determines how poor service is in a store. Here in Tampa, FLORIDA we have a couple pretty good LHS. It's not about location it's about management. If you hire good, knowledgeable people you will get good service in your shop... If you want to save a few bucks and hire some high school kid that doesn't know anything about hockey you're going to get crappy service, simple as that.

[kredmore 2]

I went back to the boss and told him I didnt appreciate that comment.

Just curious what he said after you told him that......

[DarkStar50 680]

I'd like to hear from LHS workers/owners how they respond when someone is up front and tells them that they are looking to buy an item online because the price is $x lower than theirs?

I have yet to meet the customer who tells me he is in the shop and will be buying the skates, the gloves, or any piece of equipment online to my face. Simply put, no one has the balls to tell the truth to the shop guy. They play their game, so we have to play ours. This idea of comparing the LHS to Best Buy or the car dealer is bogus because their are plenty of different places to buy electronics or cars within a given area. There are only one or two places to buy skates or hockey equipment in the same area. Do you see a difference now with this idea of comparing the LHS to a car dealership? It is not the same situation at all.

[jimmy 194]

Sorry, but if anyone told me there was a "fitting fee" I'd turn around and walk out. I understand the idea, but most LHS's have a pretty limited selection of skates, so if I want to go to 3-4 different places to try different skates, I have to plunk down $30-$40 to pay for the privilege of attempting to give you my business? Let's keep in mind that in many LHS's you don't get a trained pro helping you with a fitting, you really do get a hockey monkey.

I'm wondering why hockey stores are so up in arms about the issue as to start charging for their time - I understand the annoyance of it and I sure would be pissed at those "customers." But, are you really losing a lot of money? These non-customers are wasting your time, yes. But is that waste of a timel resulting in a loss of a sale to an actual customer every time?

Every other store which sells big ticket items, from electronics to musical instruments, whether a mom and pop place or a BestBuy also has internet competition with the internet prices being dramatically lower most of the time. They get the internet shoppers too. I can't imagine them even having the idea of charging potential customers to try items in the store. This is the modern world, the internet is not going away, and you're always going to get assholes who just come in to try out stuff they'll buy elsewhere. Infuriating, I'm sure, but today, a part of the cost of doing business which is here to stay.

Any time an employee is tied up with a customer, they are not doing something else that needs to be done. So, either that person has to work longer hours (more pay) or another person has to be hired to take on additional work. What don't you understand about that? Simply not making a sale isn't the only thing that costs an employer money.

So when one goes to a shop to scam them and try on skates for an intended internet purchase, they are stealing from that store, plain and simple.

[icefish 0]

when i told him i didnt appreciate that comment, he just smiled and then told me why buying online is such a bad idea.

he said that skates are put together by hand and each skate is just a little different. so you'll really need to try on an individual skate to make sure that exact one fits your foot.

[chippa13 1844]

I'd like to hear from LHS workers/owners how they respond when someone is up front and tells them that they are looking to buy an item online because the price is $x lower than theirs? 

I have yet to meet the customer who tells me he is in the shop and will be buying the skates, the gloves, or any piece of equipment online to my face. Simply put, no one has the balls to tell the truth to the shop guy. They play their game, so we have to play ours. This idea of comparing the LHS to Best Buy or the car dealer is bogus because their are plenty of different places to buy electronics or cars within a given area. There are only one or two places to buy skates or hockey equipment in the same area. Do you see a difference now with this idea of comparing the LHS to a car dealership? It is not the same situation at all.

Within a 30 minute ride from my house are 8 full service LHS. That makes it comparable to the car dealership or Best Buy.

[DarkStar50 680]

That makes it comparable to Best Buy or a car dealership where you live. You are fortunate. The majority do not have the same number of choices. There might be 8 total shops to choose from in all of New Jersey.