What's the big deal with skates becoming so light?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

kovy who told you this, luke or slapshot

hahahahahahaha :D , slaphot, no just kiding. No it's a guy in my town who do special make up reparation on pro skates like Yanic Perreault. I wouldn't say the guy is in the JR's category but he knows his stuff a lot.

[Gongshow11 1]

are you telling me a guy would skate faster in a pair of bauer classic golds vs a pair of vapor xxx, please. The lighter the skates are, the faster you can move your feet. Take two guys, if they both worked on quick feet all summer, same level, i can guarantee vapor xxx would have quicker foot speed. Is it easier to run in running shoes or timberlands? please.

kovy, you have the flashiest skates ont he ice everytime you're out there, for those of you who dont know, he has reverse great whites aka federovs, which without a doubt, are more of a headhunter than one90s.

I will agree tho, the look of the fuel line, and the kors make me sick to my stomach, vapors and rbks? beauties

I very much doubt that a few hundred grams will make any difference in skating speed. Legs have the strongest muscles in the body. I too am a bit tired of seeing companies trying to prove that their product is better because it's lighter. I switched from a one piece to a woody a while back and the woody was much heavier but my hand speed and coordination didn't change at all. As for skates, I'd be curious to see if lighter does indeed mean faster. I'm almost a 100% certain that you wouldn't see any difference at all provided the guy skated at exactly the same intensity, line and stride with both skates. In my mind it's all mental. I pay more attention to comfort than weight. I think comfort is what matters most.

ok, even if the leg is the strognest muscle, a waterlogged classic gold vs a vapor xxx, it would require more strength to skate as fast in the classic golds as the xxx, its all relative. I guarantee you're legs would be more tired in the classics. There is a reason ppl have been buying the lightest of their time. Bauer 5000 comps were a better buy in the day then a pair of ccm 952 whcih you could curl for a workout

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Give the any pair of skates to Mike Ribeiro : he'll be slow

Hell, Kovalev is skating with skates 3x heavier than regular and he's the best Habs skater.

What I mean is it's stupid to go for skate just because it is very slightly lighter. Sure if you like the skate, go for it. But companies who said they have the best skate just because it is light are completely stupid.

i thinka ctually prezhogin is the fastest or kostitsyn, i forget which one tho, kovalev is smoothest, not fastest

yeah right, yglod

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

 

kovy, you have the flashiest skates ont he ice everytime you're out there, for those of you who dont know, he has reverse great whites aka federovs, which without a doubt, are more of a headhunter than one90s.

Kovy I have to agree with yglod11.

Only you and Kovalev can get away with that look.

one90 look is ok except for the blue holder. I like when skates flash but not when it look like things made for ET.

[hockey3 0]

Depending on the skate, the 705\g5 and 709\g9 are protective...

I wear G9s and love them, but id never say they were a protective skate. There is very little protection on the sides of the front of the foot. The slightest shot off the inside of the forefoot and it feels like your foots broken.

[odp 0]

I think the lighter skates are good for those who are not in shape and have no endurance. However, the athlete in top shape won't even notice a difference, with 50-100 grams. I will say though, some of the new skates are 3/4 lb (750grams) lighter per skate than some of the classics. That's serious weight there, but still something an athelete can overcome. Think of that army soldier who's out in the jungle lugging a 70 lb backpack, 20lb rifle, 10lb helmet, 15 lb boots and 20 lb flak vest all day hours on end . Then compare that to you, playing a sixty minute game where you are on the ice about 20 minutes, with a rest every minute or so. And your telling me you can't handle 50 grams. :o Building strength in your legs would be way more beneficial than trying to shave a few grams off the skates. That's what soldiers who are in top shape do. Boot camp, here we go.....

Nobody really carries a 20lb rifle, excluding sniper rifles. The biggest rifle in recent memory would be the M14 and that only weighs 10 lbs. To hit 20 lbs, we're talking M60's, M249's, etc...

Jungle boots weigh less than 3 lbs, not 15.

Flak vests haven't weighed more than 10 lbs since Korea.

Even the old steel pots weighed less than 10 lbs.

That said, any soldier worth his salt tries to cut weight whenever possible. The less weight you carry, the better.

[bulletproof_funk 0]

Want to see the difference between light weight skates vs. something heavier? Tape some small weights underneath your XXX's or whatever featherweight skate you want, skate around, and compare. This way you'd eliminate fit, pitch, etc. as variables, so everything stays the same except the weight on your feet.

I don't have problems with companies trying to improve their products, it's competition that drives product evolution and innovation after all. Having said that, trying to make skates lighter isn't necessarily a bad goal either. There might be some growing pains the consumer pays in terms of price and durability, but one day these problems will be addressed. Personally, a light weight skate is just icing on the cake as long as fit and durability are there first, but that's me. I mean if you don't like lightweight skates, don't buy them. That's your way of telling the manufacturers what you like and don't like (and there's this thread too). There's plenty of skates out there to choose from, and it's not like anyone is forcing you to drop $800 on top end model featherweights... I mean who knows, there could be a consumer backlash to lightweight skates one day.

[Storm 0]

 

kovy, you have the flashiest skates ont he ice everytime you're out there, for those of you who dont know, he has reverse great whites aka federovs, which without a doubt, are more of a headhunter than one90s.

Kovy I have to agree with yglod11.

Only you and Kovalev can get away with that look.

one90 look is ok except for the blue holder. I like when skates flash but not when it look like things made for ET.

No, what I meant was that you can get away with wearing those skates (Edit: reverse great whites ) because you're such a good skater.

[MJDhcky9 0]

I remeber hearing that NBH did a test and proved that using the one90 will reduce the amount of weight by 3 brick weights at the end of a shift. So basically your feet will feel the equivalant of three bricks lighter at the end of a shift compared to using a heavier skate.

[DarkStar50 679]

Just to go to the opposite extreme, I grabbed a pair of skates worn here by an Olympic figure skater, mens skates. The guys skate as fast as hockey players, have excellent edge control, and can complete triple jumps with amazing lift off the ice. I weighed the skates, about a size 9. They were dance boots with a shorter blade so the dancers do not trip each other and a very high heel lift. The boots have steel shanks as well for strength. The weight was almost 8 lbs. Imagine trying to skate in on a breakaway with 8 lbs of skates underneath you. Imagine how strong the figure skaters legs are that they can complete triple jumps in boots as heavy as this. and think about how fast they skate backward carrying 8 lbs of skates. Yes, maybe that more weight can give you more momentum idea is part of this but you simply must have the strength to carry it out.

[jimmy 194]

I think the lighter skates are good for those who are not in shape and have no endurance.  However, the athlete in top shape won't even notice a difference, with 50-100 grams.  I will say though, some of the new skates are 3/4 lb (750grams)  lighter per skate than some of the classics. That's serious weight there, but still something an athelete can overcome.  Think of that army soldier who's out in the jungle lugging a 70 lb backpack, 20lb rifle, 10lb helmet, 15 lb boots and 20 lb flak vest all day hours on end .  Then compare that to you, playing a sixty minute game where you are on the ice about 20 minutes, with a rest every minute or so.  And your telling me you can't handle 50 grams.  :o  Building strength in your legs would be way more beneficial than trying to shave a few grams off the skates. That's what soldiers who are in top shape do.  Boot camp, here we go.....

Nobody really carries a 20lb rifle, excluding sniper rifles. The biggest rifle in recent memory would be the M14 and that only weighs 10 lbs. To hit 20 lbs, we're talking M60's, M249's, etc...

Jungle boots weigh less than 3 lbs, not 15.

Flak vests haven't weighed more than 10 lbs since Korea.

Even the old steel pots weighed less than 10 lbs.

That said, any soldier worth his salt tries to cut weight whenever possible. The less weight you carry, the better.

The actual weights are irrelevant, the real point being it's the physical condition of the athelete, not saving 50 grams. Strength, endurance cannot be achieved by reducing a little weight. Darkstar made a very nice example.

[jimmy 194]

I remeber hearing that NBH did a test and proved that using the one90 will reduce the amount of weight by 3 brick weights at the end of a shift. So basically your feet will feel the equivalant of three bricks lighter at the end of a shift compared to using a heavier skate.

NBH also did a "test" that said the LS power steel made you faster. We are still waiting for the unbiased test results on that too.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

While I understand your main point - does weight really matter? No, it doesn't. But then to say that they're causing injuries because they are not protective enough and then for the guy to say that Graf skates are the best, when that skate is mainly comprised of leather is a ludicrous statement.

Actually JR the way the Graf skate fits if done properly it was one of the most protective skate out there and in the older series still is. Sundin and Markov both got hit in the same area of the foot at roughly the same speed and Sundin was out 3 weeks longer because of the negative space that was there in his CCM's vs Markov in a very tight fitting 700 series Graf. In my expierence Graf wearers have had more deep bone bruises than breaks compared to other skate companies. But again this is all high end players with the proper fit in all the diffrent companies!

[DarkStar50 679]

NBH also did a "test" that said the LS power steel made you faster. We are still waiting for the unbiased test results on that too.

We are still waiting for you to stop waiting! :lol:

[jimmy 194]

NBH also did a "test" that said the LS power steel made you faster.  We are still waiting for the unbiased test results on that too.

We are still waiting for you to stop waiting! :lol:

Why, is that an unreasonable request? When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them. Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

[JCYC5 0]

NBH also did a "test" that said the LS power steel made you faster.  We are still waiting for the unbiased test results on that too.

We are still waiting for you to stop waiting! :lol:

Why, is that an unreasonable request? When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them. Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

I'm sure he meant that he's waiting for someone to actually do a unbiased test, rather than being a sarcastic comment.

[DarkStar50 679]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

[Chadd 916]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

It's going to be another few years until we're set up to quantify those marketing claims. ;)

[Fury of One 6]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

I can attest to that fact. I got hit in the sides when I had my 8Ks and now 9Ks and you don't feel anything but the impact of the puck, no pain. That's compared to when I started with Bauer skates and later on 652 Tacks. Granted they weren't Iafrate slapshots or anything, but decent wrist shots or even slashes that I definitely would have felt wearing the Tacks.

[hockeymom 2]

  When a company makes a claim their test showed results, then it's only fair to see them.  Otherwise, it's just hype, is it not?

2006 RBK Catalog, page 3, RBK 9K Pump Skate:

"Lightweight PRO ARMOUR I delivers 50% more protection and maiximizes durability."

50% more than what? Where is the test result? Who conducted this test? Dammit, jimmy, get on this right now! We want answers! Companies making claims that are just hype! This is unacceptable. This never happens in dog food. When they say new and improved and tastes better, they had a dog tell them so! Where is JD Power when you need him and just who exactly is JD Power? Is he related to the Wizard of OZ? The charlatan behind the curtain? I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth!!

It's going to be another few years until we're set up to quantify those marketing claims. ;)

OK... I've listened to you guys duking this one out for some time now, and haven't waded in. Haven't been convinced you'd necessarily want any factoids creeping in!

Jimmy: what is the basis for your suspicion of any kind of testing? Is it natural scepticism or cynicism or is it based on something else?

When a company has test results, I would tend to refer to it as proprietary primary research rather than "hype". The relative merits and validity of that research would be more appropriately evaluated on the methodology used rather than the publication of the results.

There is well established law about product claims and standards in testing in both the US and Canada.

In the states it is under the FTC Act and the Lanham Act, in Canada it is primarily covered under the Advertising Standards Council.

[Chadd 916]

OK... I've listened to you guys duking this one out for some time now, and haven't waded in. Haven't been convinced you'd necessarily want any factoids creeping in!

Jimmy: what is the basis for your suspicion of any kind of testing? Is it natural scepticism or cynicism or is it based on something else?

When a company has test results, I would tend to refer to it as proprietary primary research rather than "hype". The relative merits and validity of that research would be more appropriately evaluated on the methodology used rather than the publication of the results.

There is well established law about product claims and standards in testing in both the US and Canada.

In the states it is under the FTC Act and the Lanham Act, in Canada it is primarily covered under the Advertising Standards Council.

I'd like to see the test results from every manufacturer made available to the public upon request. The laws you mentioned only come into play if someone challenges the claims in court, that doesn't happen very often.

[icefish 0]

I used to have a pair of 1998 Supreme 3000 skates. While I didnt skate better in the newer/lighter skates, I could skate for longer without getting as tired.

That being said, when I looked for new skates, the look of them and the weight of initially picking them up off the skate rack was what made me want to spend money on them.

I guess the argument here is more towards, weight DOES matter, but to what degree? Im sure 50 grams difference does not really matter to the player, but it's a good point for advertising.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

I used to have a pair of 1998 Supreme 3000 skates. While I didnt skate better in the newer/lighter skates, I could skate for longer without getting as tired.

That being said, when I looked for new skates, the look of them and the weight of initially picking them up off the skate rack was what made me want to spend money on them.

I guess the argument here is more towards, weight DOES matter, but to what degree? Im sure 50 grams difference does not really matter to the player, but it's a good point for advertising.

good point.

And look is also a factor for me but I don't like the look of recent new skates on the market.

[hockeymom 2]

OK... I've listened to you guys duking this one out for some time now, and haven't waded in.  Haven't been convinced you'd necessarily want any factoids creeping in!

Jimmy: what is the basis for your suspicion of any kind of testing?  Is it natural scepticism or cynicism or is it based on something else?

When a company has test results, I would tend to refer to it as proprietary primary research rather than "hype".  The relative merits and validity of that research would be more appropriately evaluated on the methodology used rather than the publication of the results.

There is well established law about product claims and standards in testing in both the US and Canada.

In the states it is under the FTC Act and the Lanham Act, in Canada it is primarily covered under the Advertising Standards Council.

I'd like to see the test results from every manufacturer made available to the public upon request. The laws you mentioned only come into play if someone challenges the claims in court, that doesn't happen very often.

Has anyone ever asked them?

But again, it is not so much the actual test results that matter - it is the methodology of the testing procedure.

You are right Chadd, that the US is more litigious.

The Canadian system, however, isn't and has a pretty good review process.

All of this has some well-established grounding, I can get into it more if you're interested, but right now I have to go give a tutorial on, ironically, research methodolgy...lol

[kredmore 2]

I'd like to see the test results from every manufacturer made available to the public upon request. The laws you mentioned only come into play if someone challenges the claims in court, that doesn't happen very often.

I think we all would, but this is just not practical.....if you provide one at one level or feature, you should provide them all. Once the results are out, then the requests for the testing procedure would be made, then questioned, then why decisions were made, and it goes on and on......not to mention the costs to support such an effort, legal issues, marketing changes, etc.