Bush League in MLB

[RadioGaGa 162]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EUxNUk0CAZg

What do you think...dick move...or savvy veteran play ?!?

Is this any different than the trailing back-checker banging his stick on the ice hoping to fool the guy into a drop pass?

I hope Jeter punched him in the head in the clubhouse after the game. Johnny Mac doesn't get mad...EVER....so if he was fired up...A-Rod said something.

[RadioGaGa 162]

No different than a back checker calling for a "drop" in some way, whether vocally or banging his stick on the ice.

So he said something...the guy is in the major leagues, deal with it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EUxNUk0CAZg

What do you think...dick move...or savvy veteran play ?!?

Is this any different than the trailing back-checker banging his stick on the ice hoping to fool the guy into a drop pass?

I hope Jeter punched him in the head in the clubhouse after the game. Johnny Mac doesn't get mad...EVER....so if he was fired up...A-Rod said something.

If that's the case...why doesn't it happen more often. The commentators said in all their years in Pro ball...they've never seen a base runner do that.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Totally agree with SRI. It's done all the time in hockey - yelling to pass to the point, banging stick on ice, calling for a drop pass.

Watch the video again - my thought is that he lost it in the lights. That ball was a good ways away from the 3rd baseman. Usually when someone calls for the ball, you move...

[RadioGaGa 162]

Totally agree with SRI. It's done all the time in hockey - yelling to pass to the point, banging stick on ice, calling for a drop pass.

Watch the video again - my thought is that he lost it in the lights. That ball was a good ways away from the 3rd baseman. Usually when someone calls for the ball, you move...

I don't mind it in hockey....maybe it has something to do with the speed that the game happens that makes it okay (in my mind)...I don't like that move in baseball.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Radio,

Why is something like that OK in hockey but not in baseball? Is baseball that much more of a "gentleman's game?" I don't understand why this is such a big deal.

I don't mind it in hockey....maybe it has something to do with the speed that the game happens that makes it okay (in my mind)...I don't like that move in baseball.

I dunno. I think baseball has always seen itself as a "gentlemen's game". I guess it's partly the love/hate that people have for the Yankees....any reason to hate them more is okay. But...in hockey you see it ALL THE TIME...you never see it in baseball. If you never see it, there must be a reason. Either A) in 150 years of playing baseball no one ever thought to yell "Mine!" or B) the unwritten rule is that you don't do it.

Baseball is throw the ball...hit the ball...catch the ball. For the most part it moves pretty slowly. Hockey happens fast. I'm not saying banging your stick and yelling "Point" is good sportsmanship...but is seems to be accepted in hockey. This has obviously caught some peoples attention as being outside of the sportsmanship of baseball.

Just remind me never to play baseball with you *L*

[mik3 1]

Watch the video, he yells HA. If you get thrown off on a ball you've been sitting under for about 15 seconds where you barely had to move off the bag by someone yelling HA, then back to the minors for you Clark.

And, if you've ever sat near the field, this happens constantly. Benches shout things all the time, stuff usually more distracting than HA. It's usually, GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT.

And it was funny watching Gibbons talk about class, dude got into two altercations with his own players during games last year.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Radio, I think golf to be a "gentlemen's game." I mean, they even turn themselves in for infractions.

Baseball on the other hand, where do you begin? Steroids? Is using steroids "gentlemenly?" I dunno...I guess I agree with mik3 on this one when he writes "If you get thrown off on a ball you've been sitting under for about 15 seconds where you barely had to move off the bag by someone yelling HA, then back to the minors..."

Also, you made me laugh when you wrote "For the most part it (baseball) moves pretty slowly." Actually Radio, it IS a slow game, period! LOL

I meant gentlemanly in the way it's played...maybe gentlemanly is the wrong wording. As far as slow...yes is IS a slow game. *L* I guess any sport that includes "walking" in it's rules...is by definition a "slow game"

[mik3 1]

[kosydar 0]

No different than a back checker calling for a "drop" in some way, whether vocally or banging his stick on the ice.

So he said something...the guy is in the major leagues, deal with it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EUxNUk0CAZg

What do you think...dick move...or savvy veteran play ?!?

Is this any different than the trailing back-checker banging his stick on the ice hoping to fool the guy into a drop pass?

I hope Jeter punched him in the head in the clubhouse after the game. Johnny Mac doesn't get mad...EVER....so if he was fired up...A-Rod said something.

If that's the case...why doesn't it happen more often. The commentators said in all their years in Pro ball...they've never seen a base runner do that.

They must have never seen Major League.

[CCC8190 0]

if you go to espn.com they have this topic in the vote section on the right side. i voted and the map came up showing state by state: everybody but the extreme northeast thought it was an ok move. i found that pretty funny.

[TBLfan 25]

I think it was ok to do but it's not something I would have done when I played baseball. I don't agree with the play, if he indeed made a noise in attempt to throw off the third baseman, but I don't think it's something that is "wrong."

[#96 0]

From the different stories I've read, most players/coaches/execs agree that plays like that don't happen in baseball. Johnny Damon was even quoted as saying that he didn't think plays like that were allowed. Obviously it's looked down upon in the game, if only an "unwritten rule". Hockey has unwritten rules too...don't hit the star, don't celebrate too much, don't bump goalies, but it happens and goes unpenalized.

I don't think anything's wrong with it. ARod said he gets heckled, but not really in the diamond, but when he goes to catch pops in foul territory near the other team's dugout.

Guy's trying to win a game...and get over a wild night of partying with a hot ass chick with huge cans (see NY Post story "STRAYROD").

[cbj05 0]

I have seen this being done so many times in my 9+ years of playing competitive baseball. Heck, I have done it a couple times myself. As a fielder, you just have to focus and block all that stuff out and make the catch.

[Jason Harris 31]

The reason it's become an issue is this is at least the third time (and second in two weeks) A-Rod has pushed the border of sportsmanship.

In the 2004 ALCS, he slapped the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's glove as he was being tagged.

Two weeks, while trying to break up a double play, he slid about two-and-a-half feet from the bag and elbowed Dustin Pedroia as he popped up from his slide.

Last night, he either said "Hah" or "Mine" depending on the storyteller, although the lips look more like "Mine."

One incident can be chalked up to competitiveness. Three incidents (and maybe more we don't know about) borders on a win-at-all-costs louse.

[mack 44]

I've seen worse crap and have had worse crap done to me during things like this and by the time you're at this kind of level you should have developed a fairly thick skin.

Best part about it is if other teams think it's getting out of hand with him he'll bet a nice fly-by next time he's up.

[mik3 1]

The reason it's become an issue is this is at least the third time (and second in two weeks) A-Rod has pushed the border of sportsmanship.

In the 2004 ALCS, he slapped the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's glove as he was being tagged.

Two weeks, while trying to break up a double play, he slid about two-and-a-half feet from the bag and elbowed Dustin Pedroia as he popped up from his slide.

Last night, he either said "Hah" or "Mine" depending on the storyteller, although the lips look more like "Mine."

One incident can be chalked up to competitiveness. Three incidents (and maybe more we don't know about) borders on a win-at-all-costs louse.

For real, who wants a guy that wants to win at all costs. And the Pedroia play, and then him whining like a bitch, was made more funny 'cause Pedroia himself went further out of his way to take Jeter out earlier in the same game.

And he said HA, listen, watch, whatever. He didn't say Mine.

Even the guys on EEI were defending everything he's done, even the 04 ALCS play. On EEI they even said if it was a sox player they'd be talking on espn about how gritty a play it was.

[mack 44]

I'll say that the ALCS move was a total bitch move, regardless of who'd have done it.

[Jason Harris 31]

For real, who wants a guy that wants to win at all costs. And the Pedroia play, and then him whining like a bitch, was made more funny 'cause Pedroia himself went further out of his way to take Jeter out earlier in the same game.

And he said HA, listen, watch, whatever. He didn't say Mine.

Even the guys on EEI were defending everything he's done, even the 04 ALCS play. On EEI they even said if it was a sox player they'd be talking on espn about how gritty a play it was.

1) Would I want someone on my team who cares about winning versus losing? Absolutely. Would I want someone on my team who wants to win at all cost? No, it's still just a game. Think about Ty Cobb coming in spikes high, intentionally trying to hurt people. Are we supposed to be proud of that exceptional will to win?

No one was complaining about A-Rod going out of his way to take out Pedroia. It was the elbow at the end that made the play dirty -- something that A-Rod later apologized for.

2) I have no idea what he said, but I watched the video at least five times. His lips did not appear to be forming the word "Hah."

3) I don't care what the guys on EEI said, it's bush league to try to slap the ball out of someone's hand. I have no problem with someone barrelling into the catcher to try to jar the ball loose, but I have no respect with trying to slap the ball out. If a Sox player had done it, I wouldn't have considered it a gritty move.

I'm asking about THIS situation, not the others. You're saying that THIS situation borders on poor sportsmanship? Just want to be clear on your position.

The reason it's become an issue is this is at least the third time (and second in two weeks) A-Rod has pushed the border of sportsmanship.

Yes, for a major leaguer, I believe THIS situation borders on poor sportsmanship.

I understand that some have said they've heard similar things in games they've played. I understand it's up to the third baseman to have better concentration, which is why it makes somewhat more sense that A-Rod said "Mine" versus "Hah." I also realize that you and others don't believe there is anything wrong with A-Rod's actions, which is fine, as that's what makes a message board go round.

I just expect a major leaguer, particularly one of the two or three best players in the game, to earn his money with more dignity.

[Jim A 4]

you can't yell "HA" but stealing signs is perfectly ok...we are talking about a game that takes 3 hours, has 12 actual minutes of action, where people in far worse shape than I can make millions of dollars and smoke a cig or play cards between innings or when out of the game...imagine a 4th liner or someone who was benched watching the remainder of a game from the cozy confines of a leather recliner in the team clubhouse...

[Cavs019 708]

In the realm of steroids, chew, and corked bats this seems perfectly fine to me. Ironically enough, when someone charges the mound there isn't an uproar throughout the media, but should the will to win also entail running at the pitcher with the intent to beat the shit out of him after being hit by a pitch? I'd argue hypocrisies are all over the place here.

[toroytorero 0]

if I got paid 6 figures + to make that play and missed it I'd make excuses too.

[mac23 0]

if I got paid 6 figures + to make that play and missed it I'd make excuses too.

Exactly how I feel. If I missed an easy pop fly like that in some rec. league game, I'd blame it on the guy running by, too.

[Chadd 916]

He didn't spike anyone, he didn't throw at anyone's head and he didn't take the bat out to the mound to have a discussion with the pitcher. People should be thanking whatever deity they prefer that something interesting happened in a baseball game.

[Jason Harris 31]

With that said, what you are saying is that an NHL calling for a player on the other team to give you a "drop pass" should also be considered "poor sportsmanship", should it not?

Just out of curiousity, have you ever done this (called for a drop pass from a member of the opposite team) and if so, would you consider it to be poor sportsmanship or just "part of the game?"

Lastly (and not directed at Jason), I don't see why some in this thread say it would be OK to do this in "beer league" baseball/softball/hockey, etc. and not OK at the pro level. Why would it be OK at the "beer league" level? At what level would you say it is acceptable?

1) For two reasons...no. Although the situations seem similar, I think each sport has different expectations, which maybe could be classified as "unwritten rules." Think of hitting a golf shot verus taking a free throw. Golf puts up "Quiet" signs, while stadiums hand out pom poms to distract free throw shooters. (Although I imagine there would be a similar controversy if an opposing player barked into the ear of a guy taking a free throw.)

However, what's interesting is even major leaguers don't agree whether A-Rod violated the Code. In today's paper, Ozzie Guillen said, "Why not do it? You have to do everything to win games. I don't care what people say," while Omar Vizquel said, "I don't know how you can get away with that, unless you're a Yankee player."

2) That's an interesting question, because I'm guilty as charged of being a hypocrit. But I think the circumstances are different. One instance is trying to momentarily scare/distract someone versus trying to deke someone not paying attention. In other words, players should be aware of their linemates' voices or whether the other color jersey is right behind them. In some ways, it's the verbal equivalent of pretending the ball is going over the fence, then catching it to double someone up.

Now, as I was typing this, I realized if we use hockey as the standard, it would be okay if A-Rod yelled "Mine!" because he took advantage of a rookie during his first game, when he wouldn't know his shortstop's voice, plus would be likely to defer.

However, my impression is baseball does not accept these types of verbal "dekes", although hockey does. Which is why I said it bordered on a lack of sportsmanship -- for baseball.

3) Another interesting dichotomy. But maybe that's why the term "bush league" is derogatory, because we expect more from the people we are paying to watch.

[mik3 1]

This is why I love the new asshole ARod.

In a restaurant, in Boston, sitting next to the window, giving the biggest fake smile ever to photographers.