Is it better for hockey if Anaheim wins?

[Jason Harris 31]

If one were to consider the collective fervor of the fan bases, there is no doubt that a Canadian team deserves to win the Stanley Cup over Tampa Bay, Raleigh or Anaheim. None of those cities could be considered hockey hotbeds (although hockey became much bigger in SoCal after Gretzky went to the Kings), so the majority of the citizens aren't going to care too much if their team loses. Conversely, I get the impression that Canada goes into a funk for a day whenever one of their teams loses the Cup. So if justice prevails, Canada wins.

But here's an interesting question. Is it better for hockey for Anaheim to win the Cup? Has it increased the fan bases in TB and Raleigh, and will it increase the fan base in SoCal if Anaheim wins? It worked in Denver, although this area was the beneficiary of winning the Cup during the first year. Throw in a second Cup for Denver, and I think most people would now classify this area as a solid hockey market.

So do the Canadians need to get screwed yet again for the game they love to proper?

[Project824 0]

I think that Anaheim winning would only slightly improve the fan following in the area (them being in the finals again has already accomplished that). As far as participation goes, southern CA already has a solid (but not great) level of youth and adult hockey, as made popular through the mid-late 90's by Mr. Gretzky, Disney movies and the rise of inline skates. 10 years later, we're seeing the results of that, with some CA kids on NCAA rosters and scattered around all levels of higher hockey, junior through the NHL. It should be noted that there are 2-3 outstanding youth programs in CA, but still kids who wish to make it anywhere in the sport end up leaving the state for traditional areas.

I'm not sure that the numbers will get too much higher, as football, basketball and baseball will always be king among team sports in that area, and the rise of lacrosse on the west coast (much easier to buy a stick and a ball and pick that sport up), along with traditional non team sports that thrive in great warm weather (tennis, golf, any watersports).

I spent quite a bit of time in Raleigh last year, and the craze that went on last year was part transplant (lot of Northerners there for work), part infatuation (what IS this new sport they play on ice?), and part monopoly - there is nothing else going on in that state at the time other than NASCAR, no major professional baseball, the Charlotte Bobcats were horrible and the college seasons were over. Is there a jump in participation? Absolutely, and it's helped the rinks there tremendously. But NC never had, and never will have the A.)population SoCal has; B.)the number of rinks SoCal has. Hockey is on the rise, but like in CA, will hit its ceiling soon, especially with the Hurricanes not making the playoffs this year. All the new fairweather fans fell right off the wagon.

I wasn't in TB for their run, but a friend who works in their upper management office described a very similar thing. In the SE U.S., winning can get you some fanbase, but you need to keep their interest with more than just the sport. Both Carolina and TB at some point have had concert/carnival type events before games to attract fans.

All this exposure is great for nontraditional hockey areas - but hockey's always going to be second (more realistically, 5th or 6th fiddle) to other sports, both for fans, and for participation. The best young athletes will always be playing football, basketball or baseball. The rest who can afford to and don't pick/aren't good at another sport might play hockey.

Regardless of which team you follow, if you ever get the chance, I would urge any true hockey fan in the US to take in a playoff game in Canada. Be in the city, feel the excitement, hear EVERYONE in the crowd sing Oh Canada (more than a few Americans don't even know the words to the National Anthem), see the passion they really have for the game - Americans buy 12 different jerseys and memorize stats, get team license plates and window flags to show they're fans, but Canadians, they breathe every breath as their team does and they only have one sport. The only thing I can remotely liken it to is being on campus for big time football at a major US college.

[TBLfan 25]

Tampa is full of fairweather fans so when the Lightning won it definitely improved ticket sales and interest grew greatly in hockey.

Personally, I don't think any area "deserves" to with the cup, their team has to earn it. I know that you didn't mean it that way but the word "deserve" is something that I don't approve of on a topic such as this.

[gp3r 0]

If you look at it in a short term perspective, then I guess it would be better for the NHL, not necesserely hockey itself. If Anaheim wins, there might be a few more season ticket holders next season and the one after, there might also be a little more fans to games, but long term I think hockey in those types of market just won't prosper. Some of my friends we down there for the first two games and they said that around the arena there was a pretty good ambiance, but in the city, almost nobody were talking about the ducks, it was all about the dodgers and Koby wanting out.

If the NHL really wants to prosper, in my mind, they should concentrate their teams in legitimate hockey markets, which would be Northern United-States and Canada. Bettman and his crew should concentrate in reviving markets like Boston, which has always been good for hockey. One of the problems is that there are too many teams, but I don't see how they can solve that one cause I don't see the NHL just taking away teams. Another problem, and the biggest in mh mind, is that the season is WAY TOO LONG. I mean they should be playing in May, let alone in June. First, summer and icehockey just don't go together, second, there's an old saying that when your enemy is bigger, you only fight the battles that you know you have a chance of winning. The NHL playoffs can't beat the NBA playoffs in the states, simply because basketball in much bigger there, add to that baseball and there is no way the NHL will get any media attention. What I would do is shorten the regular season to 72 games and start the season at the beginning of september so that it ends at the beginning of march.

There are many other reasons why the NHL isn't doing good in the States, but that's enough for today.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Tampa is full of fairweather fans so when the Lightning won it definitely improved ticket sales and interest grew greatly in hockey.

Personally, I don't think any area "deserves" to with the cup, their team has to earn it. I know that you didn't mean it that way but the word "deserve" is something that I don't approve of on a topic such as this.

Not only that, but Tampa never had an opportunity to build onto the Cup win because of the lockout.

[TBLfan 25]

Actually, I have a theory that if there was no lockout the Lightning would have been much better off as a franchise. Not saying they'd be a dynasty or even win another cup but they'd possibly have kept momentum and won another division title and maybe a playoff series since the cup win.

Andreychuk was probably the worst off after the lockout, he looked like he aged by 5 years. But of course all he did during the lockout(after the season was officially canceled) was a couple times a week small pickup game with Pratt, Sarich, Dinger and a couple other lightning players and some local guys. He was just not at the age where he could comeback strong. Sorry, that steered waay off topic.

[GSHL99 0]

1.If all we ever focus on is traditional hockey markets the sport will never grow. Dallas is not a traditional hockey market and yet the Stars have done very well there. Their success should be a model for future NHL expansion.

2.The NBA's raitings are in the toilet and have been for quite some time. They have exactly the same problem as hockey, it's a winter sport being played into the summer and people are switching away to baseball and other summer sports.

[Chadd 916]

1.If all we ever focus on is traditional hockey markets the sport will never grow. Dallas is not a traditional hockey market and yet the Stars have done very well there. Their success should be a model for future NHL expansion.

2.The NBA's raitings are in the toilet and have been for quite some time. They have exactly the same problem as hockey, it's a winter sport being played into the summer and people are switching away to baseball and other summer sports.

I would say that Basketball is a summer sport that is played in the winter so they can draw more people to the games. In a large portion of the country you can't play basketball outside in the winter, ergo it is not a winter sport. It's also part of the summer Olympics, not the winter games.

[Hidious 0]

but long term I think hockey in those types of market just won't prosper.

I'm not going to make friends but i totally agree.

What bothers me is how so many of those teams can live with a limited fan support when cities like Québec and Winnipeg would have almost everybody cheering for their team. I was young at the time but the Nordiques and Jets died because of money-related issues, is that it?

[Jason Harris 31]

If you look at it in a short term perspective, then I guess it would be better for the NHL, not necesserely hockey itself. If Anaheim wins, there might be a few more season ticket holders next season and the one after, there might also be a little more fans to games, but long term I think hockey in those types of market just won't prosper.

I debated whether I should phrase it "good for hockey" or "good for the NHL," but I think they are intertwined. Based on what I've seen in Denver in the past ten years, a successful NHL team seems to have a very positive affect on hockey for the region. I moved to Denver just after the Avs won their first Cup but, according to friends, there were about 6-7 sheets of ice in Denver. Ten years later, I think we're up to 19-20, plus a couple of newer ones in Colorado Springs. On top of that, a couple of roller rinks have been created.

If something similar to that occurs in the areas that have won the last few Cups, even if just a few more outdoor roller rink, one would assume the number of players overall would increase. Which is why I imagine the NHL is secretly rooting for Anaheim to win.

What bothers me is how so many of those teams can live with a limited fan support when cities like Québec and Winnipeg would have almost everybody cheering for their team. I was young at the time but the Nordiques and Jets died because of money-related issues, is that it?

I can't remember whether those teams had problems drawing fans, but I recall they had problems competing for salaries, since they took in Canadian dollars but paid US salaries. The dollars are closer today, as well as there is now a salary cap, so some of the smaller Canadian cities could be viable destinations.

However, if you look back ten years ago, while the NHL still had a contract with ESPN, it's obvious some of the expansion and relocation was driven by the desire to be in larger TV markets. Even if the take at the gate wasn't as large as it would be in more traditional hockey markets, cities like Dallas, Anaheim, Denver, Phoenix or Miami offer better demographics to the networks. Of course, once ESPN offered the NHL two cents on the dollar, that strategy was no longer valid.

[ktang 34]

I think the NHL had its chances to become a major-league (top-4) sport, but the lockout seasons and the ascendancy of NASCAR, golf, and other broadcast sports has ended that. ESPN was broadcasting the NHL expecting it to break out.

The Kings went to the finals, but even if they had won the Stanley Cup the NHL would still not be a major league sport. I don't think Anaheim's winning the Stanley Cup will help that; maybe they need a repeat or a three-peat (assuming they win this year). Otherwise the NHL should be considering retreating from the franchises that aren't drawing well.

[crazykeeper3317 0]

i think it would be good if anaheim won as then the cup and cup holders would come to london in september making the event even more special!

[joshy207 15]

A successful NHL team does wonders for local hockey. Even here in Detroit, hockey was a niche sport until the early/mid 90s. I was always a rarity in school, if I had a couple classmates that played hockey, that was a lot. But once the Wings became good year-in and year-out, interest picked up and the number of kids playing hockey exploded. There was a real rink boom around here from the mid-90s to the early 2000s. Without researching, I'd say the number of sheets in SE Michigan tripled at least, between new buildings and existing rinks adding on. Now, however, we're in a "recession" of sorts... between the cost of playing, the length and intensity of our season (travel teams are skating 10 1/2 months a year), and our $hitty economy, the number of registered players is plummeting. Associations are losing teams and rinks aren't staying open as late. The only areas experiencing growth are girls/womens and high school teams (but you could argue that HS growth comes at the expense of Midget hockey). Lately, I'm seeing more beginner-adult programs popping up too.

[Edge 0]

I think you'd be suprised how much hockey has blown up in the Southwest USA(Socal, AZ, etc). It is much more popular and has a lot more talent than what it is thought to have.

Everyone down here is pulling for Anaheim for obvious reasons. Socal has a hell of a lot of people, so it can only help American hockey popularity if the cup is brought back to there.

[Hidious 0]

Well my point of view is that young talents/number of players is one thing and fanbase is another. I'm sure you guys have great organisations, teams and players but they're not the ones who are going to buy tickets. Hockey needs the average guy (enjoying a game with a beer and a hot-dog) but most of them are a lot more interested in NFL/MLB/NASCAR.

Another thing is that most cities with a good fan base (Mtl, Toronto, Detroit, New York, Philly, Edmonton to state a few) rely on tradition and old legends. An expansion team has to start with a blank history which a big minus IMO. Habs or leafs not making the playoffs or loosing an important game is close to a national mourning here and this is gold.

[Jason Harris 31]

You're addressing how an Anaheim's victory would affect its fan base. My question is more along the lines of how would it impact the popularity of playing hockey in Southern Cal?

[BHSwing_7` 0]

there are to many teams in the NHL they shoudl have just stuck to where hockey is played signifcailty in the US spread out the talent in the league and make very team that is left that much better the Cup should hav been in edmenton last year and calgary the year before and ottwawa this year as much as i dislike the senetors it will revamp hockey and give it to teh real fans. You cant say that everysingle person that went to the carolina hurrcane stanley cup games last year was a die hard fan casue they werent they were all band wagen fans and half of them prob didnt care how they did this year at all

[joshy207 15]

Well my point of view is that young talents/number of players is one thing and fanbase is another. I'm sure you guys have great organisations, teams and players but they're not the ones who are going to buy tickets. Hockey needs the average guy (enjoying a game with a beer and a hot-dog) but most of them are a lot more interested in NFL/MLB/NASCAR.

The NHL does need the casual-interest fan, yes, but the best way to build a loyal fan base is to get them totally immersed in the game. It's much easier to lose interest in a sport that you don't actually play. A hockey player is a hockey fan for life.

You're addressing how an Anaheim's victory would affect its fan base. My question is more along the lines of how would it impact the popularity of playing hockey in Southern Cal?

I don't know anything about SoCal... I do know there are more and more SoCal teams competing nationally with Michigan, Minnesota and New England teams. I wouldn't think the Ducks winning the Cup will have the same effect as Gretzky coming to LA or the Ducks franchise being awarded in the first place, but it will definitely provide another spike in participation numbers.

there are to many teams in the NHL they shoudl have just stuck to where hockey is played signifcailty in the US spread out the talent in the league and make very team that is left that much better the Cup should hav been in edmenton last year and calgary the year before and ottwawa this year as much as i dislike the senetors it will revamp hockey and give it to teh real fans. You cant say that everysingle person that went to the carolina hurrcane stanley cup games last year was a die hard fan casue they werent they were all band wagen fans and half of them prob didnt care how they did this year at all

All that in just 2 sentences? Breathe!!

I too think that the NHL expanded too quickly and went into some markets that, in hindsight, it probably shouldn't have... but the game was as popular as ever when expansion was taking place, and the markets the league went into did support minor league teams well. As much as I'd like to see some cities gone and less teams in the NHL, it would do as much (if not more) harm to the game as it would do good.

[kovalchuk71 212]

there are to many teams in the NHL they shoudl have just stuck to where hockey is played signifcailty in the US spread out the talent in the league and make very team that is left that much better the Cup should hav been in edmenton last year and calgary the year before and ottwawa this year as much as i dislike the senetors it will revamp hockey and give it to teh real fans. You cant say that everysingle person that went to the carolina hurrcane stanley cup games last year was a die hard fan casue they werent they were all band wagen fans and half of them prob didnt care how they did this year at all

Hey dont pull things out of your ass ok? You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Hockeys popularity in the Carolinas has grown significantly in the past few years, and the amount of "true" greatly outweighs the bandwagoners. You have bandwagoners everywhere, even in Canada (Crazy Huh?). No matter where you are, if your team sucks year after year, the fan base will decline no matter what. And to answer your last smug remark, everyone around here was quite dissapointed when we didnt make the playoffs. I just hate when people assume crap because we are southerners that dont know anyting besides what a baseball bat and a football helmet are.

[D aka speck 0]

I think that hockey should be more availabe to everybody. Yes it is a pipedream. To uninclude the southern U.S states is a deplorable shame. To proclaim Canada as the only nation worthy of hockey, is even worse.

Originally, the fundamental game of hockey was developed in Ireland, centuries before the French military took to the ice on the many frozen lakes of Canada to pass time. Weather or not a Sir Walter Stanley's Cup goes to Ottawa, Annaheim or Timbucktoo is (in my opinion) irrelevant. Every city, state, province and nation is full of "fair weather fans". Some of us put tin foil on our bedroom T.V. antenna just to watch Hockey Night in Canada in the 80's (yes I'm that f*cking old). Most, if not all, stations, talked trash about the sport in general. Now, hockey has had time to become a "popular" sport, yet the games seem to always get cut off by things like Nascar, Baseball, Basketball and Antique Road Show. WTF? We are the niche, we will continue to be for a long time. If Annaheim wins The Cup, they will have a parrade and forget before July. I wish I didn't have to face this stark reality myself but it seems (again, my opinion) to be true.

[BHSwing_7` 0]

there are to many teams in the NHL they shoudl have just stuck to where hockey is played signifcailty in the US spread out the talent in the league and make very team that is left that much better the Cup should hav been in edmenton last year and calgary the year before and ottwawa this year as much as i dislike the senetors it will revamp hockey and give it to teh real fans. You cant say that everysingle person that went to the carolina hurrcane stanley cup games last year was a die hard fan casue they werent they were all band wagen fans and half of them prob didnt care how they did this year at all

Hey dont pull things out of your ass ok? You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Hockeys popularity in the Carolinas has grown significantly in the past few years, and the amount of "true" greatly outweighs the bandwagoners. You have bandwagoners everywhere, even in Canada (Crazy Huh?). No matter where you are, if your team sucks year after year, the fan base will decline no matter what. And to answer your last smug remark, everyone around here was quite dissapointed when we didnt make the playoffs. I just hate when people assume crap because we are southerners that dont know anyting besides what a baseball bat and a football helmet are.

ok that may be true but the miami does not need a team wheres wisconsins team? hockey hot beds all have teams except for them Boston, MIn, Colorado, Minnesotta. the teams may be doing ok down south but i think that they dont need as many as they have now mabye hockeys big in arizona i dn but to have a team there is a little wack it . welll i dn that would just e my point of view i think they nned to cut down on southern teams

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Is that English?

And I don't understand this whole Colorado being a hockey hotbed thing. They had a team before the Avalanche and couldn't support it.

[DarkStar50 679]

JR, the Rockies sucked. They drove Don Cherry out of hockey. You have to be really bad to do that. 1996, a stacked team with talent drops in from Quebec = instant new fan base that sticks around for 400+ sell-outs. And, they win the Cup with St. Patrick and Super Joe. University of Denver has been in hockey a long time, too.

[ktang 34]

What makes MLB, the NFL, and NASCAR so popular? Here is what I think:

With MLB and the NFL, the pace is slow enough that 1 or 2 colour commentators can explain what happened.

With NASCAR and MLB you can focus the cameras on the area of importance (the front of the pack in NASCAR, and the pitcher/batter in MLB). It's there to a lesser degree in the NFL (focus on the backfield and the QB, there is only one pass or handoff). Everything is over in a few seconds, then there is time for the play to be broken down.

Most people drive, so they can relate to the NASCAR skills, and most have played baseball, so they can relate to the baseball players.

Hockey is too fast with too much passing for the colour commentators to explain every turnover, rush, pass, play, and move. Plays happen all over the ice, so it's hard to focus on only one area. It's too expensive for most to participate in growing up, so very few can understand what is going on.

If Anaheim wins or makes a mini-dynasty, there will be more fans and players in SoCal, but I don't think it will help the NHL become major-league.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

I think getting more fans and players is how you make it become major league. More fans and players = more watching on TV, which can help secure a better TV deal, the one they've had for awhile sucks. More fans and players means more people talking about it, or turning on the game at the bar or party, and then people who don't know will start hearing/seeing more and more hockey until they too potentially become fan and/ or player. More fans and players means more new rinks, which means more opportunities for more people to play... In my opinion..