Cost of manufacturing skates

[TBLfan 25]

exactly, and those companies are still making money on those controllers. They just aren't making as much as Microsoft or Sony... and of course you can't put all the blame on the companies that manufacter the product because the stores that sell the product have to make money too.

[Jarick 5]

Here's a novel idea: if making skates is so cheap and you think the companies are ripping you off, don't buy skates and make your own. Or go get a generic brand. Or go buy the parts yourself and have a shoe repair place sew them together.

[wonderenzo 0]

You really think it costs even close to $50 to make a 360 controller?

yes. yes i do.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

oh. my. god. i wish i had signed on earlier.

this is a fricken train wreck, its apparent that the vast majority of you have ANY idea as to what goes into R&D... of anything. Or economics. And yes, I'm going to say that R&D costs on skates is more expensive per unit than on any gaming console. Per unit is the key word.

Also, I forgot NBH was here to break even. It's supply and demand. I dont give a shit what YOU will pay for them. Demand is still exceeding supply at the current pricing. until there are more skates than people willing to buy it, the prices wont go down... all of this is irrelevant to actual cost of manufacturing.

You want to bitch about the price of something, versus manufacturing costs? Bitch about pharmaceuticals. Having those top of the line drugs at a lower price at least serves some purpose. Johnny doesnt need those One90s, but he does need that cancer med.

[mack 44]

Oh yeah, still here in Sville.

[djinferno 2]

oh. my. god. i wish i had signed on earlier.

this is a fricken train wreck, its apparent that the vast majority of you have ANY idea as to what goes into R&D... of anything. Or economics. And yes, I'm going to say that R&D costs on skates is more expensive per unit than on any gaming console. Per unit is the key word.

Also, I forgot NBH was here to break even. It's supply and demand. I dont give a shit what YOU will pay for them. Demand is still exceeding supply at the current pricing. until there are more skates than people willing to buy it, the prices wont go down... all of this is irrelevant to actual cost of manufacturing.

You want to bitch about the price of something, versus manufacturing costs? Bitch about pharmaceuticals. Having those top of the line drugs at a lower price at least serves some purpose. Johnny doesn't need those One90s, but he does need that cancer med.

Point the blame at your American government for that medical stuff, we in Canada have that under control...

As for hockey brands, there missing the point that even games put emphasis on putting the correct stuff on correct people and who plays most games? kids...

So get rid of the bull and drop prices on the real and you will make a bigger profit, trust me, take a look at this vid and tell me it does not matter http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22425.html

And by the way, I'm not impressed with there R&D, skates breaking down after one season? come on?? I skated in Vapor 10's for 3 years, I paid 400$ for em, they where everything a hockey player needed, hell it took for ever to convert NHL players that where getting paid to use the new stuff to wear em... Bert, Nazzy, Havlat and others wear dressed up versions of the Vapor 10's to this day...

The new stuff is great but lets be honest, 800$ for one90's, 850$ for s15's...

I can buy a scooter for that price and I will get a test drive first...

The biggest problem now is that even if you go out and pay 800$, you know that you will have to do it again next year because your skates are now noodles, exibit A, Vapor line...

Then you say OK, let me buy a new pair but wait, the Vector Pro is no more, it's now Vector 10.0, it's more expensive and it does not fit the same...

Also the issues with blade alignment, i mean for all that money they be askin, can they get that right? at the very least...

Quality does not match the price tag...

[DarkStar50 679]

I'm educated and have a good job, I've put myself in a position to make more then 80% of the population, so daddy can afford more then most....

Isn't this a bit hypocritical on your part? You are asking the hockey vendors to drop their wholesale prices and reduce their ability to make a profit. This would effectively spiral downwards for their employees who would also have less potential salary earnings if the vendors were to earn less money. So, while you earn more than 80% of the population, you believe others should not have the same ability to earn as much as they can based on their company's abiltity to earn as much as they can for their employees? You have mentioned working in Atlanta and the US and now work in Vancouver. What industry are you working in? Without even knowing, would you expect your company or industry to take the path you are suggesting for the hockey industry? How would you feel if they did and suddenly your yearly salary dropped significantly due to your company's benevolence? Lets think big picture about how something like this effects everyone, not just consumers purchasing product.

[djinferno 2]

I'm educated and have a good job, I've put myself in a position to make more then 80% of the population, so daddy can afford more then most....

Isn't this a bit hypocritical on your part? You are asking the hockey vendors to drop their wholesale prices and reduce their ability to make a profit. This would effectively spiral downwards for their employees who would also have less potential salary earnings if the vendors were to earn less money. So, while you earn more than 80% of the population, you believe others should not have the same ability to earn as much as they can based on their company's abiltity to earn as much as they can for their employees? You have mentioned working in Atlanta and the US and now work in Vancouver. What industry are you working in? Without even knowing, would you expect your company or industry to take the path you are suggesting for the hockey industry? How would you feel if they did and suddenly your yearly salary dropped significantly due to your company's benevolence? Lets think big picture about how something like this effects everyone, not just consumers purchasing product.

Actually, I work in Ottawa now...

Secondly, Yes in my line of work, they do cut to able themselves do survive and compete, I work in IT, the most cuts are made in IT, I was on the Nortel boat when they send everyone packing so I know first hand what the deal is, I'm saying that the hockey companies are going to price themselves out because there best products are way and I mean way over the top...

Notice how 4 years ago to now, even tho the technology has grown leaps and bounds, a top of the line computer has not budged in price at the top end, this is by design to keep people buying... Yes they do R&D, yes they do all that stuff and let me tell you, it costs are way beyond what hockey companies pay and they still find a way to keep the prices the same because what drives the business is sales, with no sales, you have nothing, absolutely nothing so call me names all you want to but the bottom line is the customer and if the customer ain't having it no more, you are SOL....

Hockey is more fragile then you think my friend, I'm not talking for myself only here, I'm talking from seing in wich direction this is going... Sony dropped the price on the PS3 because they where not selling, they dropped the 20Gig PS3 because they want to concentrate on the high end product... Thats business, they want everyone to get the good stuff, I think hockey would benefit in popularity if it did the same, I'm not saying to cut there business cost down by cutting people, I said cut the low end crap and only produce the good stuff at a better price point...

I'll say itr one more time, "Get rid of the low end stuff that cost you about the same to make with less profit and concentrate all your energy on the good stuff, lower the prices so everyone has them, bigger market share because one it's more affordable, two it's lower in cost and tree it's what are idols wear"... You don't have to send people to unemployment to do that, get the guys that make Vapor XIX or what ever to do the XXV and XXXX, keep your dam line more then 2 years and make sure every kid at every level can get there hands on a nice pair of XXV or XXXX

In Canadian figures, you have for exemple

XXXX 399$

XXV 299$

one90 449$

one70 349$

Vector 10.0 399$

Vector 8.0 299$

RBK 9K 429$

RBK 7K 349$

S15 449$

S11 349$

Adjust your prices for juniors and every time you want a new product, introduce it at thoset prices...

Do the same for sticks and voila, everyone stays employed, everyone has nice gear, hockey lives on a the lower ranks safely...

Right now because of the prices of things, more and more kids play soccer, is thathard to understand, if you price yourself out, one day nobody will want to give you there money, they will give it to someone else...

Why would you pay a guy like Crosby all this money to wear your product then put it at a price where not everyone can afford, it's just stupid business...

A pair of one90 is almost my morgage paiment, no matter how much money I make, it makes no sense...

I'm not being hypocritical, like I said before, I will have a pair of skates in my feet before the season starts for as long as I want to, someone will get me a pair at my price point, but again I coach 12 to 15 year olds and I see how the parents feel, people are dropping out of hockey because of cost, not the cost of ice for us, it's the cost of equipment every year, 2 stick and a pair of skates for a 14 year old that plays AA travel team that practices 5 days a week and play 2 games per weekend is costing to much...

[jmiro 55]

oh. my. god. i wish i had signed on earlier.

this is a fricken train wreck, its apparent that the vast majority of you have ANY idea as to what goes into R&D... of anything. Or economics. And yes, I'm going to say that R&D costs on skates is more expensive per unit than on any gaming console. Per unit is the key word.

Also, I forgot NBH was here to break even. It's supply and demand. I dont give a shit what YOU will pay for them. Demand is still exceeding supply at the current pricing. until there are more skates than people willing to buy it, the prices wont go down... all of this is irrelevant to actual cost of manufacturing.

You want to bitch about the price of something, versus manufacturing costs? Bitch about pharmaceuticals. Having those top of the line drugs at a lower price at least serves some purpose. Johnny doesnt need those One90s, but he does need that cancer med.

great point. Look at harley-davidson motorcycles. In the 90s you had to be put on a waiting list to get a bike. Now you can go into dealerships and see models from two years back that are brand new with no miles. The supply went up met the demand. You, at one time, could get almost exacly what you paid for a bike when you sold it a couple years later. Now used bikes are a dime a dozen. I just saw an 06 go for almost half of what the new price was a year ago. Until the supply meets demand its "pay up sucker". If you look at technology it progresses at a fast rate then levels off at some point. You only can make skates so light at some point the improvements will go from leaps and bounds to skips. When that happens the companies wont be able to cash in. So they are front loading for the end.

[DarkStar50 679]

I have been fitting kids in hockey skates for over 25 years. There is no kid starting in hockey who should ever begin skating with a medium to top end boot which you are suggesting they do. You are suggesting there is no place in the marketplace for low end skates or product. That is one thing you are wrong about, sorry. You want kids to play yet you say they should start in skates that cost $200-$300 Canadian. Now you are the one cutting out the kids chance to play hockey!! What if they don't have $200-$300 to spend on skates?!!!

The computer analogy ia great except kids need computers for school now. Owning a computer is practically a necessity in today's home if you want your kid to have a chance to learn. Playing hockey is a luxury, not a necessity.

[djinferno 2]

oh. my. god. i wish i had signed on earlier.

this is a fricken train wreck, its apparent that the vast majority of you have ANY idea as to what goes into R&D... of anything. Or economics. And yes, I'm going to say that R&D costs on skates is more expensive per unit than on any gaming console. Per unit is the key word.

Also, I forgot NBH was here to break even. It's supply and demand. I dont give a shit what YOU will pay for them. Demand is still exceeding supply at the current pricing. until there are more skates than people willing to buy it, the prices wont go down... all of this is irrelevant to actual cost of manufacturing.

You want to bitch about the price of something, versus manufacturing costs? Bitch about pharmaceuticals. Having those top of the line drugs at a lower price at least serves some purpose. Johnny doesnt need those One90s, but he does need that cancer med.

great point. Look at harley-davidson motorcycles. In the 90s you had to be put on a waiting list to get a bike. Now you can go into dealerships and see models from two years back that are brand new with no miles. The supply went up met the demand. You, at one time, could get almost exacly what you paid for a bike when you sold it a couple years later. Now used bikes are a dime a dozen. I just saw an 06 go for almost half of what the new price was a year ago. Until the supply meets demand its "pay up sucker". If you look at technology it progresses at a fast rate then levels off at some point. You only can make skates so light at some point the improvements will go from leaps and bounds to skips. When that happens the companies wont be able to cash in. So they are front loading for the end.

I disagree with this leaps and bounds stuff, I'm not that impressed with the so called technology they be putting into them, it's not all that wonderfull and in allot of casses don't last long... Easton skates cracking, mush Vapor XX, whay to go technology... I use to think that Vapor 8 Discoloration was bad, those things where still stiff when I stop wearing em...

[Cavs019 708]

DJInferno an Econ 101 Class would do you wonders. As the producing firm, NBH is not out to be some benevolent organization or philanthropist to the game. We are talking about 3rd-World labor Nike here who will put children in Upton Sinclair's "Jungle" like conditions in order to reap the highest margins possible. That said, NBH sole intent is to maximize their profit, like any other firm, by capturing present market demand at the highest price customers are willing to pay before either shifting to another brand or boycotting the skates altogether. With your displayed progression from ie) Vapor 10 to current models, the only difference is that each subsequent models has flown off of the shelves in almost every market, despite the higher prices. From an economic perspective, and as Puck-It referenced, demand far exceeds supply, which is why you see the high equilibrium price that consumers are willing to pay for these skates.

As for your Starbury reference, the principle is that he is making shoes, from what I understand based on testimony of basketball players I know, of awful quality. That said, what makes these crap shoes with poor support any different than the low end skates you seem to have a problem with. Also, most high-end skaters would rather get 6 months out of a skate at $499 than 4 weeks out of a lesser model at $239. Not to mention, most low-end skaters cannot utilize the benefits of the higher end models, regardless of price. Do you really want a developing skater with weak ankles and poor posture learning how to skate in a Vapor XXXX, and item that takes elite level skaters almost a month to fully break in?

[zingbergeur 0]

Lets say that for some strange reason NBH, CCM/RBK, Mission, and everyone else dump their low end skates. Lets even say that for some strange reason the price of the high end skates falls to a level of $300 that djinferno deems adequate.

Now, it will be in some company's best interest to produce a lower, price point skate to cash-in on the consumers who have a demand lower than $300. The rest will follow to get their share of the pie. I'd say virtually all lines of products contain entry-level products...even computers.

Also, if they don't exceed their marginal costs on the high end skates priced at $300, they simply wouldn't sell them at that price.

I guess the argument is: hockey companies make too much money on high end skates, and they should lower the price and make profits that you deem appropriate. It simply doesn't and won't work like that. No matter how much you think it will help, you can't control the price at which goods are sold! The market does that.

[djinferno 2]

DJInferno an Econ 101 Class would do you wonders. As the producing firm, NBH is not out to be some benevolent organization or philanthropist to the game. We are talking about 3rd-World labor Nike here who will put children in Upton Sinclair's "Jungle" like conditions in order to reap the highest margins possible. That said, NBH sole intent is to maximize their profit, like any other firm, by capturing present market demand at the highest price customers are willing to pay before either shifting to another brand or boycotting the skates altogether. With your displayed progression from ie) Vapor 10 to current models, the only difference is that each subsequent models has flown off of the shelves in almost every market, despite the higher prices. From an economic perspective, and as Puck-It referenced, demand far exceeds supply, which is why you see the high equilibrium price that consumers are willing to pay for these skates.

As for your Starbury reference, the principle is that he is making shoes, from what I understand based on testimony of basketball players I know, of awful quality. That said, what makes these crap shoes with poor support any different than the low end skates you seem to have a problem with in terms of support. Also, most high-end skaters would rather get 6 months out of a skate at $499 than 4 weeks out of a lesser model at $239. Not to mention, most low-end skaters cannot utilize the benefits of the higher end models, regardless of price. Do you really want a developing skater with weak ankles and poor posture learning how to skate in a Vapor XXXX, and item that takes elite level skaters almost a month to fully break in?

Anyone can benefit of the advantages of a XXXX or a one90, stop the bull...

Your right stuff has flown of shelves but it will stop...

Starbury's are not horrible, they are actually very good for the price, now they could be better at a little higher price poind but don't kid yourself, I have a pair and there as good as lets say a Nike Air Force 1

Lets say that for some strange reason NBH, CCM/RBK, Mission, and everyone else dump their low end skates. Lets even say that for some strange reason the price of the high end skates falls to a level of $300 that djinferno deems adequate.

Now, it will be in some company's best interest to produce a lower, price point skate to cash-in on the consumers who have a demand lower than $300. The rest will follow to get their share of the pie. I'd say virtually all lines of products contain entry-level products...even computers.

Also, if they don't exceed their marginal costs on the high end skates priced at $300, they simply wouldn't sell them at that price.

I guess the argument is: hockey companies make too much money on high end skates, and they should lower the price and make profits that you deem appropriate. It simply doesn't and won't work like that. No matter how much you think it will help, you can't control the price at which goods are sold! The market does that.

agreed!

[Cavs019 708]

No, they cant. A beginning skater would probably get the same benefits from a cast with a lightspeed riveted to it. Also, Air Force 1's aren't known as performance basketball shoes, they are a fashion statement. Many players use lower end or mid-level equipment, with the assumption that it fits correctly, and still perform to their potential. Again you're contradicting yourself and further proving my point. In terms of durability. The Starbury's v. $199 Jordan is proportional to the difference between, say, a 5k and 9k. I'm all for constructive argument but you're just throwing unsubstantiated BS at everyone that seems to have a problem with your opinions.

[LkptTiger 1]

Anyone can benefit of the advantages of a XXXX or a one90, stop the bull...

Negative. I'm willing to bet that 60-70% of house league kids over the age of 15 (and an even greater percentage at the younger age levels) would not see any appreciable difference (besides weight) between a pair of One90s and a pair of Supreme 30s. They're just not technically sound (re: good) enough to reap the rewards of the higher-end skate...just like a beginning golfer isn't going to be able to fully take advantage of a high-end ball versus a shitty range ball.

[djinferno 2]

No, they cant. A beginning skater would probably get the same benefits from a cast with a lightspeed riveted to it. Also, Air Force 1's aren't known as performance basketball shoes, they are a fashion statement. I'm all for constructive argument but you're just throwing unsubstantiated BS at everyone that seems to have a problem with your opinions.

Dude most shoes out there are no better then Starberry shoes, I'm not saying there perfect, I'm saying it's a step in the right direction, hes allowing the kids to wear what he wears at a affordable price, now he might be at the other side of the spectrum in terms of price and he could of done something at 50$ but I respect his movement because it's positive...

Secondly, Stop trying to use a beginer as an examble, we are not beginners here, after a couple of months you are not a beginner, anybody could benefit from a nice supportive skate like a 7K by RBK instead of tapping there ankles for support... You my friend are arguing for argument sakes... I respect others opinion and I understand what reality is, I just putting my opinion out there that I think hockey could benefit in growth if the equipment prices where not 300$ for a steath stick and a one90 skate... Whats so wrong with that???

Others have said that Ice time prices is costly to, I agree with that too but I do believe that more players would cause the sport to expand... You and I know that a Stealth stick does not make you better because we are fortunate enough to be able to try one at one part of are life, not everyone is so lucky...

Anyone can benefit of the advantages of a XXXX or a one90, stop the bull...

Negative. I'm willing to bet that 60-70% of house league kids over the age of 15 (and an even greater percentage at the younger age levels) would not see any appreciable difference (besides weight) between a pair of One90s and a pair of Supreme 30s. They're just not technically sound (re: good) enough to reap the rewards of the higher-end skate...just like a beginning golfer isn't going to be able to fully take advantage of a high-end ball versus a shitty range ball.

So they would not benefit from a better fitting skate, I strongly dissagree NBH would dissagree

Plus even if it's making him feel better about himself... I too was a beginner one apon a time and I benefited greatly fron a top end skate as opposed to my cheap pair... My ankles whe strait, my malance was better, they where lighter, they fit better...

I once gave a kid a pair of S500 that where givin to me by a Mission rep because the where not the right size, let me tell you, not on the first day but after one month, I could see a great improuvement in his on ice posture, I was so happy for him, when I met the kid he could not do much out there but before the end of the year he was doing stuff that had us jumping up and down behind the bench... He was not a allstar but we could not help but be happy with his progress and I firmly believe that the better skate helped him imencely...

[jmiro 55]

okay. What is the exact arguement? If it is why are skates so expensive haven't we covered it. Because someone is willing to pay that price. Is it that most skaters can benifit from high end skates regardless of skill level? That is absurd. I dont think there is a sport out there that top end equipment boost the preformance of the novice or mid line player. If there is then that player must pay the price for the goods. Regardless of wether I use a driver that I picked up at the discount store for fifty bucks or use my friends 400dollar one I still have a slice. Its on mechanics nothing more. Once i fix my slice it may put a couple extra yards on but not to justify the money. And it is my choice not to sink that much money into it. Hell some of the best pros in the league use old school stuff. They are pros i am not. So why do I need the newest and best stuff?

[mew1838 0]

People are willing to pay the price, companies will keep selling. The only way the price is gonna drop is when there is less demand which isn't happening anytime soon, thanks to MSH. It's a sad fact but no one individual can influence the market.

[Jarick 5]

So get rid of the bull and drop prices on the real and you will make a bigger profit, trust me, take a look at this vid and tell me it does not matter http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22425.html

If dropping prices leads to more profits, why aren't prices zero?

You really have no concept of economics, so I'm not even going to bother. I was going to talk about competition leading to product innovation, new technologies trickling down to lower price models, but you for some odd reason seem to think in an economic void.

[djinferno 2]

okay. What is the exact arguement? If it is why are skates so expensive haven't we covered it. Because someone is willing to pay that price. Is it that most skaters can benifit from high end skates regardless of skill level? That is absurd. I dont think there is a sport out there that top end equipment boost the preformance of the novice or mid line player. If there is then that player must pay the price for the goods. Regardless of wether I use a driver that I picked up at the discount store for fifty bucks or use my friends 400dollar one I still have a slice. Its on mechanics nothing more. Once i fix my slice it may put a couple extra yards on but not to justify the money. And it is my choice not to sink that much money into it. Hell some of the best pros in the league use old school stuff. They are pros i am not. So why do I need the newest and best stuff?

I'm just saying that the lower end stuff is crap, as you grow and get better you are kind of forced to go up, i'm talking about the kid thats trying to get better... a 5K boot flexes like nobody's business, why is a skate that cost 400$ doing that?, i'm not a pro and I'm not 300 pounds so WTF? I'm telling you, this low end stuff is crap man, we are gear whores around here so we don't look at it...

[Cavs019 708]

Based on pictures, video, and discussion on here, MANY members are in fact beginners. I won't mention names, but one member who happens to own about 7 pro-stock XXX-Lites was asking how to take a slap shot a few weeks ago on the general discussion board. Do you honestly think any of those sticks will do him any more good than a 45 minute lesson with a shooting coach? Also, if you think Marbury is wearing a 15 dollar pair of shoes you're out of your mind. They simply LOOK like what he's wearing, much akin to the relationship between a Vapor XXV and XXXX.

You're blowing the importance of equipment way out of proportion. One of my skating coaches, a semi-pro russian, was able to fly for fun with his skates UNTIED! Do you honestly think your friend, who could do nothing at the beginning of the year, progressed because of the skates, or the fact that he was continually on the ice for the entire season? Feeling better about himself? A ferrari would make me feel better about myself, but I don't have the means. Should I go cry to have the price lowered to that of my Audi so I can drive what my favorite F1 driver drives? I think not. Welcome to the capitalist 21st century "my friend."

Edit: Grafs "flex" like nobodies business, yet many elite level skaters have no problem with them. You're confusing a stiffness for support, and prefer to have "novice" (is that better?) use an ultra-stiff skate as opposed to developing strong ankles and "skating-muscles" that cannot be simulated via any other avenue/workout routine.

[djinferno 2]

So get rid of the bull and drop prices on the real and you will make a bigger profit, trust me, take a look at this vid and tell me it does not matter http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22425.html

If dropping prices leads to more profits, why aren't prices zero?

You really have no concept of economics, so I'm not even going to bother. I was going to talk about competition leading to product innovation, new technologies trickling down to lower price models, but you for some odd reason seem to think in an economic void.

thats the most stupid coment i've ever heard, ZERO? as in free? wtf are you talking about? nobody said to give stuff out here...

Volume of sale is key my friend, i will take less profit per for double volume anyday... thats why theres microsofts getting paid and others giging out software for free... :lol:

Grow the amount of people that can wear your product and you make more money, that is economics 101...

why aren't prices zero :lol: good one

[jmiro 55]

okay. What is the exact arguement? If it is why are skates so expensive haven't we covered it. Because someone is willing to pay that price. Is it that most skaters can benifit from high end skates regardless of skill level? That is absurd. I dont think there is a sport out there that top end equipment boost the preformance of the novice or mid line player. If there is then that player must pay the price for the goods. Regardless of wether I use a driver that I picked up at the discount store for fifty bucks or use my friends 400dollar one I still have a slice. Its on mechanics nothing more. Once i fix my slice it may put a couple extra yards on but not to justify the money. And it is my choice not to sink that much money into it. Hell some of the best pros in the league use old school stuff. They are pros i am not. So why do I need the newest and best stuff?

I'm just saying that the lower end stuff is crap, as you grow and get better you are kind of forced to go up, i'm talking about the kid thats trying to get better... a 5K boot flexes like nobody's business, why is a skate that cost 400$ doing that?, i'm not a pro and I'm not 300 pounds so WTF? I'm telling you, this low end stuff is crap man, we are gear whores around here so we don't look at it...

im just saying ill take last years this year at a quarter of the price.

[Cavs019 708]

No its not, because you can make more REVENUE by charging a greater margin to a lower quantity of consumers than producing in DJ Inferno's socialist factory for the entire world in order to incur massive additional supply costs with a much lower margin of return per unit.