Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[lpgbackups 17]

This one?

decent one , but i think there was a more comprehensive list

[timmywah 1]

Like you Benson I'm a little torn myself. Somehow over the past couple of days I managed to read/skim this whole thread while trying to decide on the Blackstone or the Wissota. I'm leaning more and more towards the Wissota as they are local, and I don't use FBV. I don't have any experience sharpening so I also like the fact I can pick the sharpener up in person and get an in-person tutorial on how to use it. Let me know what you end up with!

[benson 8]

Like you Benson I'm a little torn myself. Somehow over the past couple of days I managed to read/skim this whole thread while trying to decide on the Blackstone or the Wissota. I'm leaning more and more towards the Wissota as they are local, and I don't use FBV. I don't have any experience sharpening so I also like the fact I can pick the sharpener up in person and get an in-person tutorial on how to use it. Let me know what you end up with!

Yeah, I don't actually use FBV but I'd like the option to try it. I actually planned on going to my LHS to try it out this weekend. I figured that would help me to figure out if I need it at all or if ROH is fine.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

Yeah, I don't actually use FBV but I'd like the option to try it. I actually planned on going to my LHS to try it out this weekend. I figured that would help me to figure out if I need it at all or if ROH is fine.

I think this is going to be your major decision maker. If you like FBV, it makes sense to use the machine that is built by the people who invented the tech. I personally love FBV. First time I tried it, it took getting used to (almost felt slippery), but once you get used to it, it's fantastic and it's the real deal. I once had to go back to ROH for an emergency sharpening at the rink, and my skates felt so "sluggish" compared to FBV. I'll never go back to ROH if I can help it.

Both machines are great and both have phenomenal customer service. IMHO, the Wissota has a much steeper learning curve than the X01/X02. However, If you're out playing, and you need an emergency sharpening somewhere else (like I did), chances are you're more likely going to have to get ROH, as it's more common.

And in regards to sharpening your own skates... I am very picky. I once had FBV done on my skates, and I kept losing my edge cause they were poorly done. So a lot of the quality is on the operator, more so than on the machine. When I sharpen my own skates, I know #1) that it was done with meticulous care, #2) that the edges are to spec and that they are level, #3) they can be done anytime I'm around my machine (so no waiting, no trying to get to the LHS before they close, etc)

When I first got my X01, it took me about a hour to sharpen a pair of skates to the desired level of quality, cause I had to figure this thing out, reposition this thing there, etc, etc... but now I can sharpen my skates with very good precision in about 5 minutes. Plus now I sharpen for my kids, and in no time, the machine should pay for itself pretty quickly.

Best of luck in whatever machine you get!

[notquitedeadyet 13]

How so? Which skate holder is better? Thank you for the feedback!

I commented earlier in this thread my feelings about the X01 vs the full sized portables. Suffice to say the others are much more robust. And nobody is ever going to convince me that a spinner is a better way to dress for roh. So what you save in roh spinners will quickly pay for that universal dresser for fbv. I'm also not a fan of those 4" wheels.

I currently have an X02 in my posession, & it is a much better machine, but at that price point, I feel there are better options. Unless your biggest concern is portability.

I believe its a pretty expensive option to get a 3 dial skate holder with that Blademaster machine, where as I think the new Wissota's come standard with one. Levers suck compared to dials.

Edited December 12, 2014 by notquitedeadyet

[Chadd 916]

And nobody is ever going to convince me that a spinner is a better way to dress for roh.

And I can't see how anyone would think that it wasn't a vast improvement over a stylus.

[customskateworks 39]

Our Blackstone Professional Portable with single Spinner dressing is great. The 4" wheels can't match the efficiency and finish, they don't have high enough feet per second. On a side note, I've been using the new Blackstone Goal sled for the last week and it is great. Especially for cowlings with low steel and rec skates that are hard to get onto other sleds. A little on the heavy side, but the performance makes up for it.

[angeles 4]

okay...i wont be holding the boot of my skate when sharpening...especially since JR liked the post that corrected me!

im about to purchase a few spinners for christmas, im interested in the 100/50 and 95/75 range, .and i know they added new spinners that previously didnt existed...does anyone know where i can find the guide that ranks the spinners in terms of bite?

.i remember it was posted somewhere but i cant find it easily in this thread or on blackstone's site. thanks guys

Merry hockey playing

Hey,

I posted about this information back in October.

It's information that I've taken from the forum, hopefully it works for what you want.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/12/y8upa5yn

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/12/yvyjyju4

[angeles 4]

All this talk between the Wissota and Blackstone sharpeners had me re-thinking what to purchase, but I decided I'll be picking up the X02.

My main reasoning is that it's from Canada (I don't get hit with exchange rates), I want FBV and I won't get hit with shipping charges or duties.

If I was in the US, I would most likely get the Wissota with the universal wheel dresser. The ability to do any ROH and having 7" wheels are pretty sweet features.

I do have a question regarding the different edge checkers, does anyone have a preference between the batgauge and the butterfly gauge?

I'll be picking up the accessory bundle which comes with the batguage, but was wondering if anyone prefers the butterfly gauge, I could probably ask them if it's possible to switch it out.

[benson 8]

On the sharpeners, I found an X01 with several of the spinners I'd use (1/2", 90/75, and 100/50), a case, and a few other extras like an extra wheel for a little less than a new X01 by itself. I might just jump on that due to the price.

Like someone else asked, is the bat gauge ok, easy enough to use? I read the thread about the various checkers, and I seem to remember the BR100 or something like that was the favorite. Some people also say a quarter is good enough.

Thanks again everyone for the info!

Edited December 14, 2014 by benson

[notquitedeadyet 13]

And I can't see how anyone would think that it wasn't a vast improvement over a stylus.

Vast improvement? Tell me how. I don't understand.

It's not a better dress.

It's not faster. Even if it was, we're only talking seconds to do either anyway.

It doesn't save on wheel, its way easier to see the diamond dress the wheel than a spinner.

Only now it costs $50+ for every roh you want to sharpen & you have to change a spinner for each. And you can't do any hollow in between.

What am I missing here?

For me, just because its new, doesn't make it better.

[mnpucker 33]

Vast improvement? Tell me how. I don't understand.

It's not a better dress.

It's not faster. Even if it was, we're only talking seconds to do either anyway.

It doesn't save on wheel, its way easier to see the diamond dress the wheel than a spinner.

Only now it costs $50+ for every roh you want to sharpen & you have to change a spinner for each. And you can't do any hollow in between.

What am I missing here?

For me, just because its new, doesn't make it better.

Far from new technology at this point. I have had it for 6 years.

Where is your evidence of "it doesn't save on wheels"? As in hard evidence? I have gone through few heels in 6 years, not sure but no more than 4(?). I sharpen 3-5 pairs/week. I switch from 100-50 95-75, and 100-75. No real concern for life of the wheel.

Why do I need to see the spinner dress? Curious why this matters at all. Since you mention it, do you HAVE to see the dressing with a diamond stylus?

Easier? How can it be easier? I turn a dial on my XO2 and poof, dressed. Complicated? I think not.

I trust Blackstone because they developed technology that has revolutionized skate sharpening and skate performance. They created a technology that has impacted skate sharpening/hockey like nothing else. They have done so and have been successful with it. I commend them on this and feel they deserve credit for being the company that did not sit on its laurels and just keep pumping the same old tired technology into the market. FBV was so limited 6 + years ago when I purchased my XO2 that I decided I had to buy a sharpener for myself. Never would have bought a traditional had I not desired to try FBV. Owning this sharpener is the single best thing I have ever purchased. Reliable, revolutionary (VS me too copy cats), efficient and in my opinion affordable. I have more than paid of it but by not going to the pro shop as often.

I can't argue on the price of spinners, they have an expense but the spinner dressing system provide flexibility I would not want to be without. In my opinion if you buy a machine that does not give you both ROH and FBV you are buying a product that will be worthless to any potential buyers if you ever want to sell it Also you may not be able to sharpen some team mates skates. Very happy I can do both ROH and FBV......Someday I might even go back in time and try the ancient method of ROH since it is soon old.

[TBR 11]

Just my two cents: It's good to have options for yourself and for your customers if you're a retailer.

I personally use spinners for FBV and single-point diamonds for ROH's. The reality is that the single point diamond is only capable (at least for now) of creating radii, and as others have pointed out, using that method, you can dress very slowly, which allows you to feel and hear every granule being removed from the face of the grinding wheel. Also, whether you're dressing the wheel to 1/4"'s or 2" using a wissota, blademaster, blackstone, fleming gray, dupliskate, etc., it all comes down to one simple thing: A diamond is a diamond.

Even a radius arm that has some wobble--causing the wheel's highpoint to shift up or down, or a diamond that's down to its nub--can still ultimately dress the wheel to an accurate curvature. However, with the spinners it's a little trickier.

Right-off-the-bat you're counting on the accuracy of a manufactured piece of metal that is your final contact point when dressing the wheel. Assuming the metal's fabrication process is always spot on, there's also the accuracy of the diamond encrustation. Wear on thousands of tiny encrusted diamonds is harder to inspect than one ball-bearing-sized diamond on a quill. The points on diamonds also need to be exposed for a good fracture of the wheel. If I'm aggressive with my single-point diamond and, say, fail to rotate the quill, and the tip on the diamond is a little dull, all it takes is a few twists and a couple of up and downs on the stone and a sharp point is exposed once again. With the spinners, you need a trained eye to spot the fangs being translated onto the skate blade, let alone tell whether the imprint is still as crisp as it once was or if it's time to invest in a new spinner.

But like I said, at least there are options nowadays for those that want to skate on something other than a hollow. Whether it's FBV, Z-channel or BFD, if that's what you like, or if that's what a customer wants (and is willing to pay for), so be it.

Regardless of which cut you go with, my personal belief is that a good sharpening comes down to three important factors: consistent bite, keeping the blade's contour intact, and of course, level edges. If the amount of bite you receive each time you get a sharpening varies, your profile is altered significantly, and the edges are unlevel, there's a good chance you won't be a happy skater.

[AfftonDad 88]

TBRs post just gave me a great idea (I wish I had the resources to develop it). A CNC single point dressing setup. You could do an infinite number of hollows... FBV, BFD, Z-channel, A-Trap, ROH, Elliptical, ANYTHING. All with the exact same setup. Without changing a spinner. And you could set the parameters to whatever values you wanted... You want a 98-73 FBV? We can do that. you want a 71-98-73 FBV? We can do that. You want a 5.2/8 ROH? We can do that. Just program the parameters in via the front panel and press the "DRESS" button. You could even put a sensor in that could tell when the quill is in contact with the wheel so that you could take off no more or no less than is exactly necessary, thus increasing wheel life while ensuring the quality of the dress. It would of course be cost prohibitive for a portable sharpener but at the price places pay for a full size sharpener, you could probably get away with it.

EDIT: It would be difficult to measure "edge eveness" for the case I describe above that has different edge depths. Different edge angles (like the A-Trap) is probably just as good (or better) a solution than different edge depths. But the concept of the CNC single point quill is still valid.

Edited December 15, 2014 by AfftonDad

[Mimizk 114]

I'm considering to buy 3~5 spinners of FBV compatible with BFD X8~7.

I had sharped my skate X8 but now using X7.

I felt it was better if I could choose more 1 step between X8 and X7.

I heard it is said X8 or X7 compatible with 1/2~3/4" of ROH.

At least now I don't want to use deep bottom, /100(1mm?) spinner.

My basic feeling or liking is "shallow flat bottom and enough angle of edge".

Especially the ice which near of my house is little softer.

So I'm thinking to buy 100/50, 95/75, 85/100, 90/75, 95/50.

How do you guys think about these choice?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Mimizk

[Mimizk 114]

I've done all seeing this thread just now.

And decided to choose 70/50, 80/50, 90/50, 100/50 spinners for my first FBV.

My weight is 72~4kg and the ices around here usually soft.

So I think I will go with 0.5mm depth firstly.

I will email Mark sooner.

I'm thinking someday I will buy the same 4kinds spinners in 0.75mm depth.

[AfftonDad 88]

And decided to choose 70/50, 80/50

Extremely shallow... If you can handle that though, more power to you!

[Mimizk 114]

Extremely shallow... If you can handle that though, more power to you!

Yes.

Usually I'd used most shallowest ROH and went to BFD X8.

Then after I changed to X7 but felt too large difference between X8 and X7.

So I want these spinners.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

Yes.

Usually I'd used most shallowest ROH and went to BFD X8.

Then after I changed to X7 but felt too large difference between X8 and X7.

So I want these spinners.

How old was your X8?

[Mimizk 114]

How old was your X8?

Sorry, I couldn't realize true meaning of your post.

Sorry for my poor English.

If it mean as "how long had you used X8", I had used it for a year, probably.

X8 was closely the same as ROH 1-3/4" and I had used it for very long time.

[DEATHTRON 19]

I have both, and find the butterfly gauge superior. It would be worth it to see if they will change it out for you.

Zach

Don't know why It wouldn't quote. The above is answering the user "Angeles" asking which blackstone level users find better.

Edited December 19, 2014 by DEATHTRON

[angeles 4]

Thanks Deathtron,

I actually just got my machine today.

I ended up just picking up the batgauge that comes with the accessory kit, the guy I spoke to said that he prefers the batgauge, so I ran with it.

If I have any issues with the batgauge I will certainly pick up the butterfly gauge.

Can't wait to get it up and running

Cheers

[lpgbackups 17]

you got yourself an X02 for christmas?

[angeles 4]

You bet I did, hahaha.

I paid for most of it, but I asked for money this year, so it wasn't too bad.

Still haven't got it going yet, due to the holidays, but I should hopefully get a few sharpenings in next week.

[lpgbackups 17]

thats a damn nice thing to have under the tree even if you had to put it there yourself.