Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[Chadd 916]

I never had an issue with my original holder. I'm only doing a dozen or so pair a month, but it has been working since day one.

[Ivan 1]

I am strongly considering the blackstone x0-1 sharpener. I've read alot and researched this one and the wissota. SO I called Blackstone today and decided that I was going to order one if they were willing to substitute a fbv spinner. After a short conversation the salesperson said it was ok, but I would have to pay the $15 difference. (seems like pinching pennies to sell a $879 sharpener that I'm sure is half profit). Then the salesperson proceeding to try and sell me the "upgraded" skate holder for $100 extra. When I said I wasn't interested he told me that this is the one that all the NHL teams use and it was far superior to the holder that came with the X0-1. He said if I wanted it after I ordered the package it would be $250 and that they were phasing out the current holder for this new one because they had had some complaints about it. Well all of the sudden I wasn't so sure that I wanted the X0-1. I said I wanted to think it over since I was only getting it to sharpen my sons skates so it wasn't going to get alot of use and I was having a hard time justifying getting it at all, but the sharpener at the rink is horrible and they charge $8 and if I want a good edge I have to drive some distance. So then he told me the deal was only for today, and when I called back I wouldn't be able to get the upgraded holder for $100.

Well sorry for the long post but now I'm concerned since he CLEARLY indicated that he "highly highly" recommended the upgraded holder. (He really said it twice.) My son is 10 and will probably play til he's 18 and then probably play rec hockey so he can keep it (if it lasts). But I will only be using it at most once a week to sharpen his skates and maybe every two weeks to sharpen mine. I'm not sure either one of us is good enough to notice the FBV edge. Should I just get the wissota? the Blackstone? what about the upgraded holder? Thanks in advance for reading this and helping.

DPT

When I was buying my Blackstone sharpener - I was a total novice. Knowing nothing or very little about skate sharpening makes buying decision very tough. Blackstone sure was not the only brand/company I was considering at the time. Per my experience with Blackstone folks - they're very professional, ethical , and patient (I'm embarrassed now how many e-mail exchanges I've had with them. Now I know how silly some of my questions were). Anyway, aside for patience and high professionalism, the Blackstone person didn't try to steer me towards spending more money and buying something I wouldn't need (i.e.they told me not to get the most expensive Scissors clamp)(I was getting a professional Spinner before teh FBV came out). The bottom line is: if they recommend it, get it. You won't regret the extra $100 by no means.

[mnpucker 33]

The original holder is flawed, well mine is. I have been given solutions but I do not think I should be responsible for re-machining a product I paid $1500+ for. Mine takes drastic adjustments in order to sharpen my 8ee one 95's then switch and then switch to my sons 5's. So much so that I feel like the knob is nearly coming off the threads. Even then the boot rests on the holder adjustment knob and I have to put a shim under my boot between the knob. It is pretty frustrating given the price paid for the sharpener. Ultimately, it takes me forever to set up the holder which means there is no way I can jump on and give the skate a quick sharpen prior to practice.

That being said I am a huge fan of the sharpener and FBV. Holder and bat gauge? not so much.

[Ivan 1]

Does any one have any idea if diamond spinners could be refurbished after they're done?

[jimmy 194]

Does any one have any idea if diamond spinners could be refurbished after they're done?

I asked my diamond company(diamonds is all they do). After examining a used one I sent them, they said they couldn't do it. if you find a place, please let us know.

[Ivan 1]

Does any one have any idea if diamond spinners could be refurbished after they're done?

I asked my diamond company(diamonds is all they do). After examining a used one I sent them, they said they couldn't do it. if you find a place, please let us know.

I am overseas in Ukraine now. The difference here would be that here they will say yes, we can do it, then take your money and do something that won't work. So my $ will be going to Blackstone for replacement spinners.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Ivan

[dpt 0]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. As one poster said it's difficult when you have never sharpened skates before. I am good with my hands and have always been a do-it-myself kinda guy. Still bothers me that they would sell a product at all that they have had complaints about (salesman admitted it right up front). Makes me worry about customer service after the sale. I know there are a bunch of Blackstone employees here so you may want to consider the message the sales people give when they basically come out and say (almost exactly) you'll regret it if you don't order the upgrade. WIth the upgrade it makes it 15% more expensive than the wissota which is a direct drive motor. The wissota holder while admittedly looking a bit home-made also looks very sturdy and adjustable. My parents live in Minnesota so maybe i'll just fly up to visit and take a look in person. Thanks for all the help.

David

[AfftonDad 88]

I am strongly considering the blackstone x0-1 sharpener. I've read alot and researched this one and the wissota. SO I called Blackstone today and decided that I was going to order one if they were willing to substitute a fbv spinner. After a short conversation the salesperson said it was ok, but I would have to pay the $15 difference. (seems like pinching pennies to sell a $879 sharpener that I'm sure is half profit). Then the salesperson proceeding to try and sell me the "upgraded" skate holder for $100 extra. When I said I wasn't interested he told me that this is the one that all the NHL teams use and it was far superior to the holder that came with the X0-1. He said if I wanted it after I ordered the package it would be $250 and that they were phasing out the current holder for this new one because they had had some complaints about it. Well all of the sudden I wasn't so sure that I wanted the X0-1. I said I wanted to think it over since I was only getting it to sharpen my sons skates so it wasn't going to get alot of use and I was having a hard time justifying getting it at all, but the sharpener at the rink is horrible and they charge $8 and if I want a good edge I have to drive some distance. So then he told me the deal was only for today, and when I called back I wouldn't be able to get the upgraded holder for $100.

Well sorry for the long post but now I'm concerned since he CLEARLY indicated that he "highly highly" recommended the upgraded holder. (He really said it twice.) My son is 10 and will probably play til he's 18 and then probably play rec hockey so he can keep it (if it lasts). But I will only be using it at most once a week to sharpen his skates and maybe every two weeks to sharpen mine. I'm not sure either one of us is good enough to notice the FBV edge. Should I just get the wissota? the Blackstone? what about the upgraded holder? Thanks in advance for reading this and helping.

DPT

I have used the standard X-01 holder and I now have the upgraded holder. Big difference in my opionion. I only need to make minor adjustments (if any) between different skates. This wasn't the case (at least for me) with the original holder. Incidentally, I had to pay $125 (not $100) for the upgraded holder and I still think it was worth it. I tried to get them to substitute the FBV spinner (plus the extra $$$) with no luck when I ordered mine, so consider yourself lucky if they are going to do that for you.

[dpt 0]

I understand its much better and I believe it. My point was that they are advertising one product and when you call they try and sell you another. Regardless of whether you are better off with the more expensive product, this is the old bait and switch.

And they weren't going to substitute the fbv spinner, I had to pay the extra money for it. If you read other forums they have done this for others. I don't think of it as a bonus, they weren't "giving" me anything.

The price of $100 was supposedly only for the day I called. If I tried to get it after I bought the system it would be $250. So it would seem that it was you that got the good price.

DPT

[Chadd 916]

I understand its much better and I believe it. My point was that they are advertising one product and when you call they try and sell you another. Regardless of whether you are better off with the more expensive product, this is the old bait and switch.

And they weren't going to substitute the fbv spinner, I had to pay the extra money for it. If you read other forums they have done this for others. I don't think of it as a bonus, they weren't "giving" me anything.

The price of $100 was supposedly only for the day I called. If I tried to get it after I bought the system it would be $250. So it would seem that it was you that got the good price.

DPT

Just to clarify:

They offered you a big discount on an upgrade and you chose to complain about it? Most people would have accepted or declined the offer and moved on.

[mnpucker 33]

I understand its much better and I believe it. My point was that they are advertising one product and when you call they try and sell you another. Regardless of whether you are better off with the more expensive product, this is the old bait and switch.

And they weren't going to substitute the fbv spinner, I had to pay the extra money for it. If you read other forums they have done this for others. I don't think of it as a bonus, they weren't "giving" me anything.

The price of $100 was supposedly only for the day I called. If I tried to get it after I bought the system it would be $250. So it would seem that it was you that got the good price.

DPT

Just to clarify:

They offered you a big discount on an upgrade and you chose to complain about it? Most people would have accepted or declined the offer and moved on.

Chadd why not sell a good product to begin with? In my opinion your response is ridiculous and reeks of favoritism towards the mfg. Do you think we are making this up? I have learned to be a good sharpener I really enjoy doing it. I have remodeled a room specifically for it in my basement. I have spent far more than the purchase price of the sharpener and yet it takes me 10 + minutes to adjust the holder for my skate and an additional 10 to adjust for the other skate and an additional 10 to get it back for my sons skates. I am growing tired of it.

If the standard holder is flawed why not discontinue it and increase the price $100+? Recall possibly? is bad pub worth it? I would have gladly paid for it. As it is I have a holder I have been told needs to be RE-MACHINED in order to work properly? The size spread of the skates I am sharpening is not that great and I do not think the sizes are terribly outside the norm. Pay $1500 for a product and then have the MFG not reply when you report the problem and then get told that yes the holder has issues and you need to re-machine it in order to work.

In my opinion Blackstone should at least offer existing owners an opportunity to upgrade at a reduced price. Ideally a recall should be considered.

If they do not they are potentially risking legal issues. NOT BY ME mind you.

[Chadd 916]

I understand its much better and I believe it. My point was that they are advertising one product and when you call they try and sell you another. Regardless of whether you are better off with the more expensive product, this is the old bait and switch.

And they weren't going to substitute the fbv spinner, I had to pay the extra money for it. If you read other forums they have done this for others. I don't think of it as a bonus, they weren't "giving" me anything.

The price of $100 was supposedly only for the day I called. If I tried to get it after I bought the system it would be $250. So it would seem that it was you that got the good price.

DPT

Just to clarify:

They offered you a big discount on an upgrade and you chose to complain about it? Most people would have accepted or declined the offer and moved on.

Chadd why not sell a good product to begin with? In my opinion your response is ridiculous and reeks of favoritism towards the mfg. Do you think we are making this up? I have learned to be a good sharpener I really enjoy doing it. I have remodeled a room specifically for it in my basement. I have spent far more than the purchase price of the sharpener and yet it takes me 10 + minutes to adjust the holder for my skate and an additional 10 to adjust for the other skate and an additional 10 to get it back for my sons skates. I am growing tired of it.

If the standard holder is flawed why not discontinue it and increase the price $100+? Recall possibly? is bad pub worth it? I would have gladly paid for it. As it is I have a holder I have been told needs to be RE-MACHINED in order to work properly? The size spread of the skates I am sharpening is not that great and I do not think the sizes are terribly outside the norm. Pay $1500 for a product and then have the MFG not reply when you report the problem and then get told that yes the holder has issues and you need to re-machine it in order to work.

In my opinion Blackstone should at least offer existing owners an opportunity to upgrade at a reduced price. Ideally a recall should be considered.

If they do not they are potentially risking legal issues. NOT BY ME mind you.

I've used mine and two others, they have all worked perfectly fine. I don't care how screwed up the holder is, if it takes ten minutes, then the holder isn't the only problem.

[Ivan 1]

Some interesting posts here reg. the FBV, Blademaster (they just got a new redisigned site), etc. According to one post even Wissota is shooting for their stand alone FBV type dressing system that is using Blackstone spinners

Edited March 20, 2010 by Ivan

[Chadd 916]

Some interesting posts here reg. the FBV, Blademaster (they just got a new redisigned site), etc. According to one post even Wissota is shooting for their stand elone FBV type dressing system that is using Blackstone spinners

A lot of bullshit there, as one would expect from puckmugger and some of the others. It's funny that he thinks he needs to be the one to offer opinions on it, in order for it to be taken seriously. I've done my best to avoid him over the last few years, his history of making major mistakes with the facts turned me off.

Blackstone has a patent pending for the spinner. That means Wissota, Blademaster and anyone else will have to find a new method to apply the shape to the wheel. Anyone that purchases a blademaster or wissota product that does not license the patent from blackstone, will have to stop using it if blackstone pushes the issue. At the very least, their ability to get spares and replacement materials will be stopped.

[skarbro 0]

I always get 90/75, but my last sharpening was brutal! They have waaaaaaaaaay too much edge. I can barely stop properly on them. They feel like they have more edge than when I tried out 100/50. Did the guy sharpening my skates use the wrong wheel? Or is it possible to get insane edge out of a 90/75 wheel? I've never had this guy do my skates before. Needless to say, I'm taking them back to get re-sharpened by a different guy.

UPDATE:

I just got back from having them re-done. The guy said that the other guy probably made too many passes. I can tell just by touching it that there will be a lot less edge now. Hopefully it's back to normal 90/75.

Edited December 11, 2009 by skarbro

[mnpucker 33]

I understand its much better and I believe it. My point was that they are advertising one product and when you call they try and sell you another. Regardless of whether you are better off with the more expensive product, this is the old bait and switch.

And they weren't going to substitute the fbv spinner, I had to pay the extra money for it. If you read other forums they have done this for others. I don't think of it as a bonus, they weren't "giving" me anything.

The price of $100 was supposedly only for the day I called. If I tried to get it after I bought the system it would be $250. So it would seem that it was you that got the good price.

DPT

Just to clarify:

They offered you a big discount on an upgrade and you chose to complain about it? Most people would have accepted or declined the offer and moved on.

Chadd why not sell a good product to begin with? In my opinion your response is ridiculous and reeks of favoritism towards the mfg. Do you think we are making this up? I have learned to be a good sharpener I really enjoy doing it. I have remodeled a room specifically for it in my basement. I have spent far more than the purchase price of the sharpener and yet it takes me 10 + minutes to adjust the holder for my skate and an additional 10 to adjust for the other skate and an additional 10 to get it back for my sons skates. I am growing tired of it.

If the standard holder is flawed why not discontinue it and increase the price $100+? Recall possibly? is bad pub worth it? I would have gladly paid for it. As it is I have a holder I have been told needs to be RE-MACHINED in order to work properly? The size spread of the skates I am sharpening is not that great and I do not think the sizes are terribly outside the norm. Pay $1500 for a product and then have the MFG not reply when you report the problem and then get told that yes the holder has issues and you need to re-machine it in order to work.

In my opinion Blackstone should at least offer existing owners an opportunity to upgrade at a reduced price. Ideally a recall should be considered.

If they do not they are potentially risking legal issues. NOT BY ME mind you.

I've used mine and two others, they have all worked perfectly fine. I don't care how screwed up the holder is, if it takes ten minutes, then the holder isn't the only problem.

Once again the finger points AWAY from Blackstone.....The X series are great sharpeners that is fact. The holder is not. I have taken mine to very reputable LHS so they can get a look. Hard to argue that the ankle portion of the boot rests on the adjustment knob. I am guessing you have the magical super sharpeners touch that would levitate the boot off of the knob? Pictures have been sent, you have NO ARGUMENT that the boot does not rest on the knob. Plain and simple. Now blame me for dropping my holder or bending it myself, I am sure you can come up with something to point the finger back at me.

I am a huge fan of the FBV and XO2 but the holder does not measure up to that same standard of quality. Not in my case and in others in this forum that too had to shim the screws or re-machine it.

I do commend them on realizing the problem and developing a New holder, reason enough to believe that the old holder was problematic for them. They should do what is right and offer up replacement to those of us that bought into the technology early, supplied good information to this thread some 80-90 pages ago and are now being punished. I guess the message is buyer beware, you buy into new tech too early and you are simply a guinea pig.

Question m y ability to sharpen skates? I did too for about 7 months, then I realized it was NOT me. Thanks for the support.

Edited December 11, 2009 by mnpucker

[Chadd 916]

Hard to argue that the ankle portion of the boot rests on the adjustment knob. I am guessing you have the magical super sharpeners touch that would levitate the boot off of the knob?

Just put a boot into my holder, it does not touch anything. The only time I've had that happen was with a skate that had weak plastic or if the steel came out at an angle. Our experiences differ, sounds par for the course when people talk about anything.

[mnpucker 33]

I agree Chadd. I would not expect all to be bad or at least flawed. I have pictures and have supplied them to Blackstone months ago, I never heard back from them. I did receive help from people on MSH and I appreciate their assistance but I really do not think I should have to rebuild the holder. That is my issue, like I said the FBV is great.

[ZombieAttack27 1]

I agree Chadd. I would not expect all to be bad or at least flawed. I have pictures and have supplied them to Blackstone months ago, I never heard back from them. I did receive help from people on MSH and I appreciate their assistance but I really do not think I should have to rebuild the holder. That is my issue, like I said the FBV is great.

Hopefully you're right, for the price they should work great for at least ten years

[furlanitalia 1]

So I tried out the BFD at the hockey shop yesterday after two sharpeners told me they preferred it to the FBV because it felt more natural. I can see where they're coming from, as it felt like my feet definitely slid around more (I got an X6, which was supposed to be the same as 100/75). Didn't get as much grab in turns, and after five hours on them just felt really uneasy. I'm on the ice for another 5 hours tonight so I'm hoping it will not fail me, but in the future I'm sticking with FBV. Definitely prefer the increase in bite on my blades.

[jbyun04 7]

So I tried out the BFD at the hockey shop yesterday after two sharpeners told me they preferred it to the FBV because it felt more natural. I can see where they're coming from, as it felt like my feet definitely slid around more (I got an X6, which was supposed to be the same as 100/75). Didn't get as much grab in turns, and after five hours on them just felt really uneasy. I'm on the ice for another 5 hours tonight so I'm hoping it will not fail me, but in the future I'm sticking with FBV. Definitely prefer the increase in bite on my blades.

I found BFD had a lot more grip than FBV. There were times with FBV where I wasn't sure if my edges were going to grip or not.

[ejj 0]

I picked up a X-01 about 2 weeks ago. I just got it setup this past weekend, and have had no problems. I requested a 3/4" spinner instead of the 1/2" spinner that the machine came with, and they made the substitution without any hassle. I also ordered a 90/75 FBV spinner, but I haven't used it yet. I was also offered the upgraded holder for $100, and was quick to take that offer. Just looking at the holders on their website made it clear that it was a good value.

Never having sharpened a skate before, I've done mine a few times and had no problems. I may spend close to 10 minutes on my skates, so I'm certainly not quick, but I take my time, check my edges and get them level. So far, I've done them 3 times and have had NO problems.

One sharpening question though. I just do my skates (Graf Ultra G70s with Step steel), and there is a huge difference required in the holder for each of my skates...like 10-12 "clicks" difference between the 2 skates up and down. Since they are the same skate, same steel, shouldn't they be pretty darn close for each skate? It doesn't cause a problem, as I just take my time and get the holder adjusted, but I would think since the steel should be the same width, the height of the holder shouldn't need to change that much.

[Ivan 1]

So I tried out the BFD at the hockey shop yesterday after two sharpeners told me they preferred it to the FBV because it felt more natural. I can see where they're coming from, as it felt like my feet definitely slid around more (I got an X6, which was supposed to be the same as 100/75). Didn't get as much grab in turns, and after five hours on them just felt really uneasy. I'm on the ice for another 5 hours tonight so I'm hoping it will not fail me, but in the future I'm sticking with FBV. Definitely prefer the increase in bite on my blades.

I found BFD had a lot more grip than FBV. There were times with FBV where I wasn't sure if my edges were going to grip or not.

Here http://blackstonesport.com/technology.cfm they say When trying the FBV, a skater should understand that the feel on the first use will be different, but then after a few minutes of warm-up, the transition will be effortless and the advantages and speed of the FBV will be apparent quickly. My personal experience - this is very true.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Ivan

[$m0k3 0]

So I tried out the BFD at the hockey shop yesterday after two sharpeners told me they preferred it to the FBV because it felt more natural. I can see where they're coming from, as it felt like my feet definitely slid around more (I got an X6, which was supposed to be the same as 100/75). Didn't get as much grab in turns, and after five hours on them just felt really uneasy. I'm on the ice for another 5 hours tonight so I'm hoping it will not fail me, but in the future I'm sticking with FBV. Definitely prefer the increase in bite on my blades.

I got them done there also when i bought my 7k's, i have had about 8 ice times and they are still going strong. I really want to stick with them also but im coming from Coquitlam and its kind of a commute to just get a sharpening done.

Have you heard about any other places doing it in Van?

[jbyun04 7]

So I tried out the BFD at the hockey shop yesterday after two sharpeners told me they preferred it to the FBV because it felt more natural. I can see where they're coming from, as it felt like my feet definitely slid around more (I got an X6, which was supposed to be the same as 100/75). Didn't get as much grab in turns, and after five hours on them just felt really uneasy. I'm on the ice for another 5 hours tonight so I'm hoping it will not fail me, but in the future I'm sticking with FBV. Definitely prefer the increase in bite on my blades.

I found BFD had a lot more grip than FBV. There were times with FBV where I wasn't sure if my edges were going to grip or not.

Here http://blackstonesport.com/technology.cfm they say When trying the FBV, a skater should understand that the feel on the first use will be different, but then after a few minutes of warm-up, the transition will be effortless and the advantages and speed of the FBV will be apparent quickly. My personal experience - this is very true.

I've been using FBV since before it was available to the general public. I'm well passed the transition.. BFD is much better in my opinion.