Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Hell, it pains me to even think about doing a pass with that monstrosity.

[Jordan 13]

You could put the piece that holds the spinners into the clamp of a Blackstone tri lie holder. :(

[chiefs17 2]

That actually looks really clever. I don't think you would have to make a pass at all. You should be able to just touch the spinner to the grinding wheel and you're done. The nice thing about this jig is you can have several spinners attached to it and just touch the one you want to the wheel. Also, it should work with any holder, and any machine since the spinner holder gets clamped in the skate clamp. It will always be at the right height. Sure beats $1700 for a single holder. You can probably have something like that whipped up at a machine shop for $100, then it's just the cost of the spinners.

I wonder what, if any, patent implications of something like this presents.

[Jordan 13]

pretty hard to patent a simple jig that is no more than a collection of off the shelf parts (the spinners) and a hunk of machined metal.

[jimmy 194]

The only problem I see with that contraption is that you will go thru spinners like crazy. Too hard a press and bingo, the diamond is toast. Pressure on the wheel needs to be controlled and doing it freehand is risky.

[chiefs17 2]

It looks like the spinners are still free to spin in that fixture, so shouldn't be too difficult to control the pressure. I guess if it was a problem, the fixture could be designed as 2 pieces. One part is stationary in the skate holder, then connected to that is a threaded rod with a knob so you could just turn it into the wheel. Hope that makes sense.

I was thinking of possible patent problems with Blackstone. They have the patent on the fbv, so is it ok to make one of these fixtures and use it to put an fbv on a skate blade?

[squashguy 0]

Not sure how intellectual property rights apply either. The flat bottom vee is a great idea and kudos to Blackstone for implementing it. However machinists have been doing this for years. Just google "diamond roller dresser" and you'll come up with plenty of diamond dusted shaped that can be used as a negative or positive to make a shape, or in this case, make a shape in a stone, which then makes the shape in something else. Blackstone would still be selling the product of the spinner, but could they require you to buy a machine or a $1700 assembly? Trying to think of a similar example in retail, wasn't there something with Tuuk blade patents?

As for the wearing of the spinners, I bet if you go across the wheel rather than straight at it, you can get a nice light touch on the wheel, similar to touching a skate to the wheel to get a witness mark.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

It looks like the spinners are still free to spin in that fixture, so shouldn't be too difficult to control the pressure. I guess if it was a problem, the fixture could be designed as 2 pieces. One part is stationary in the skate holder, then connected to that is a threaded rod with a knob so you could just turn it into the wheel. Hope that makes sense.

I was thinking of possible patent problems with Blackstone. They have the patent on the fbv, so is it ok to make one of these fixtures and use it to put an fbv on a skate blade?

They have the patent on the method to apply the shape onto the wheel to be used in skate sharpening.

[Scotch-Canmore 0]

I also have had the pleasure to do a little experimenting with my son's novice team this year. After switching them to FBV, I can honestly say that there was a definate improvement in their play this year. They just seemed to be winning races, and skating better. Maybe it's just a fathers eyes, or their improvement as the year went on, but man...they seemed better.

GKC -

Sorry for the late question, having not been monitoring the forum.

(Family rule - no hockey after Easter, it's mountain biking & rock climbing season out here until last week of August)

What spinner did you use?

I have a kid in Atom & Novice, they both weigh 60-65lbs.

They felt they had no edge on 90/75 but felt the 100/75 was OK.

Felt more confident dangling through traffic.

So I'm going with the theory less weight = more bite needed.

As far as durability -

Made sure Mama Bear knew to stone the burrs off before each game.

Was getting 3 weeks out of a sharpening (6-8 practices and 4-5 games).

Any other dads getting similar results?

[GKC 0]

What spinner did you use?

I have a kid in Atom & Novice, they both weigh 60-65lbs.

They felt they had no edge on 90/75 but felt the 100/75 was OK.

Felt more confident dangling through traffic.

So I'm going with the theory less weight = more bite needed.

I started all of them on 90/75...Which I suggest for most people trying FBV for the first time, and it seemed to work out pretty well.

I moved them up to 100/75 based on the feedback, and what I could see from their play. Most of them felt the 100/75 was too keen, and a bunch of them were catching edges all over the place.

Some of them went back to the 90/75, some are on 100/50, some on 100/75.

It's kinda hard to get an accurate read on most of the kids. You almost feel like your leading the answers when trying to get an opinion out of them. I had to keep reminding myself that they are 8 and 9 years old, have only been skating for 3 to 4 years, and probably had no idea what I was talking about. They...God love them....just want to play Hockey.

I think It's a bit of a moving target. You have to find the one that works best for that given individual. I know that sounds a little generic....But everyone, including kids will find a grind that they feel will work best for them. And there is always the guy's who sharpen their skates three times a year and could care less.

Sorry about the "No Hockey" rule. Our store does bicycles and Hockey...I kinda can't ever get away from either. Maybe I should look at that rock climbing thing...course there is the fear of height's to deal with...

-G

[Jordan 13]

My novice son (last year), going into minor atom...tried 100/75 and immediately found it had too much bite. Then he was on 90/75 for the rest of the season and liked it, did very well with it.

Then, I noticed that he would scrape his edges on the ice, trying to dull them, when they were freshly sharpened. So, tried him on 90/50 and it was perfect!

My conclusion is that much like traditonal sharpening, you should experiment with different FBV hollows until you get the right one for your kid; or yourself.

[Ivan 1]

Not sure how intellectual property rights apply either. The flat bottom vee is a great idea and kudos to Blackstone for implementing it. However machinists have been doing this for years. Just google "diamond roller dresser" and you'll come up with plenty of diamond dusted shaped that can be used as a negative or positive to make a shape, or in this case, make a shape in a stone, which then makes the shape in something else. Blackstone would still be selling the product of the spinner, but could they require you to buy a machine or a $1700 assembly? Trying to think of a similar example in retail, wasn't there something with Tuuk blade patents?

As for the wearing of the spinners, I bet if you go across the wheel rather than straight at it, you can get a nice light touch on the wheel, similar to touching a skate to the wheel to get a witness mark.

But it appears that NOBODY ever thought of changing the hollow concept that would give break through benefits to hockey players but Blackstone Sports. And their FBV concept obviously works very well. In my case none of my customers would go back (to traditional hollow) after having tried the FBV. IMHO, Blackstone sharpeners are the best.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Ivan

[K9 Unit 1]

My novice son (last year), going into minor atom...tried 100/75 and immediately found it had too much bite. Then he was on 90/75 for the rest of the season and liked it, did very well with it.

Then, I noticed that he would scrape his edges on the ice, trying to dull them, when they were freshly sharpened. So, tried him on 90/50 and it was perfect!

My conclusion is that much like traditonal sharpening, you should experiment with different FBV hollows until you get the right one for your kid; or yourself.

i wanted to ask this for awhile...but is there like a chart of something that tells you whats FBV stuff compared to normal sharpening hollows? i usually skate 1/2" but what should i get in fbv?

[Ivan 1]

They're not really 100% comparable but maybe this will help

http://www.blackstonesport.com/technical_data.pdf

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

100/75 fbv = 3/8" roh

100/50 fbv = 5/8" roh

90/75 fbv = 3/4" roh

90/50 fbv = 1 1/8" roh

[Jordan 13]

I wouldn't take those "conversions" too seriously. The FBV gives a very different feel than a standard ROH.

FWIW..I used to skate on 3/4, and went to a 90/75. That FBV has way more bite and glide.

I am now on 90/50, and I think that it feels more like 3/4 to me.

[SAK 2]

100/75 fbv = 3/8" roh

100/50 fbv = 1/2" roh

90/75 fbv = 5/8" roh

90/50 fbv = 3/4" roh

Jordan your right. We try to convert the FBV's but it is hard to compare because there is a different feel. Tailboard these are a bit closer to how people feel on the different FBV shapes.

[K9 Unit 1]

ye i understand that...i just wanted to get one as close as possible to start and change from there

thanks guys

[Jordan 13]

That's the best way to approach it.

I have known several people who have tried a particular FBV and then either decide that FBV is not for them, or they just stick to that original FBV.

I would definitely recommend trying several different ones to hone in the right one for you.

[furlanitalia 1]

Started on the 100/50 and found there was too little bite. Finally got to try the 100/75 and think it has to be the perfect sharpen. Excellent bite and my blades don't feel like they stick to the ice while I'm gliding. Shame its way out of my way to travel to get it done, guess I'll have to buy a x02 now lol.

Edited June 16, 2009 by furlanitalia

[Ivan 1]

I wouldn't take those "conversions" too seriously. The FBV gives a very different feel than a standard ROH.

FWIW..I used to skate on 3/4, and went to a 90/75. That FBV has way more bite and glide.

Second that

[Tailboard Jockey 25]

100/75 fbv = 3/8" roh

100/50 fbv = 1/2" roh

90/75 fbv = 5/8" roh

90/50 fbv = 3/4" roh

Jordan your right. We try to convert the FBV's but it is hard to compare because there is a different feel. Tailboard these are a bit closer to how people feel on the different FBV shapes.

I concur, Steve. I've tried all four of those, and stayed with the 100/50. It was the closest I could find to the 1/2" roh I was used to, but the glide with the FBV is phenomenal. I'm definitely a believer in the FBV.

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

Here is my X02, taken apart -

Tried to conduct my figure skate experiment, however the wheel started to slow down.

Obviously it is the belt, and I have my theory on why this happened - high of 100 degrees outside which means my garage is like 130.

Almost done fixing it, but it's too hot to work.

[SAK 2]

Here is my X02, taken apart -

Tried to conduct my figure skate experiment, however the wheel started to slow down.

Obviously it is the belt, and I have my theory on why this happened - high of 100 degrees outside which means my garage is like 130.

Almost done fixing it, but it's too hot to work.

That's great........we did not do heat testing on the machines due to it is ice hockey. Have a beer and put the machine on ice!

[Neal 41]

Are you thinking the belt slipped? Are the pulleys the belt runs in geared?