Spinarama in a shoot out

[coryroth24 15]

So I'm reading up on the Devils shoot out loss to the Leafs last night and my local paper has this posted on their web site.

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2008/12..._the_spina.html

Yes, it sounds like a bunch of Jersey fans whining over the loss and the killer move by Blake, but I do feel they raise a good point.

From the NHL Rule Book

(NEW for 2005-06) During regular season games, if the game remains tied at the end of the five (5) minute overtime period, the teams will proceed to a shootout. The rules governing the shootout shall be the same as those listed under Rule 30 - Penalty Shot.

Rule 30 Penalty Shot

1. Any infraction of the rules which calls for a "PENALTY SHOT" shall be taken as follows:

The Referee shall ask to have announced over the public address system the name of the player designated by him or selected by the Team entitled to take the shot (as appropriate). He shall then place the puck on the center face-off spot and the player taking the shot will, on the instruction of the Referee, play the puck from there and shall attempt to score on the goalkeeper. The puck must be kept in motion towards the opponent's goal line and once it is shot, the play shall be considered complete. No goal can be scored on a rebound of any kind (an exception being the puck off the goal post, then the goalkeeper and then directly into the goal), and any time the puck crosses the goal line, the shot shall be considered complete.

What are your opinions?

[aarondevera 0]

One of the primary reasons the shootout was included was to excite the fans and bring them to their feet. If this is indeed the case, then the Spinorama won't be thrown out any time soon. The fans, and myself included, love seeing that sort of thing.

[adam14 182]

technically, the puck is still moving when he does the spinorama, so shouldnt it be legal?

[Chadd 916]

technically, the puck is still moving when he does the spinorama, so shouldnt it be legal?

The puck moves backwards and the player stops his forward momentum as well. It's not legal based on the rules as they are written but the NHL isn't about to disallow any shootout goal unless it's really bad.

[interpathway 9]

Come to think of it Datsyuk probably pulled the puck backward on his 'fake the shot lower left then pull it over to the right and shelf it- move that he used last year. The year before that?

But if it brings fans to their feet they should keep it, but just change the rule's wording so there will be no more disputes.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I thought that the spinarama was specifically addressed in the rulebook, I'll have to double check

It's legal, it involves continous motion, per below

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26308

Rule 25 - Penalty Shot

25.1 Penalty Shot – A penalty shot is designed to restore a scoring opportunity which was lost as a result of a foul being committed by the offending team, based on the parameters set out in these rules.

25.2 Procedure - The Referee shall ask to have announced over the public address system the name of the player designated by him or selected by the team entitled to take the shot (as appropriate). He shall then place the puck on the center face-off spot and the player taking the shot will, on the instruction of the Referee (by blowing his whistle), play the puck from there and shall attempt to score on the goalkeeper. The puck must be kept in motion towards the opponent’s goal line and once it is shot, the play shall be considered complete. No goal can be scored on a rebound of any kind (an exception being the puck off the goal post or crossbar, then the goalkeeper and then directly into the goal), and any time the puck crosses the goal line or comes to a complete stop, the shot shall be considered complete.

The lacrosse-like move whereby the puck is picked up on the blade of the stick and “whipped” into the net shall be permitted provided the puck is not raised above the height of the shoulders at any time and when released, is not carried higher than the crossbar. See also 80.1.

The spin-o-rama type move where the player completes a 360° turn as he approaches the goal, shall be permitted as this involves continuous motion.

Only a player designated as a goalkeeper or alternate goalkeeper may defend against the penalty shot.

The goalkeeper must remain in his crease until the player taking the penalty shot has touched the puck.

If at the time a penalty shot is awarded, the goalkeeper of the penalized team has been removed from the ice to substitute another player, the goalkeeper shall be permitted to return to the ice before the penalty shot is taken.

The team against whom the penalty shot has been assessed may replace their goalkeeper to defend against the penalty shot, however, the substitute goalkeeper is required to remain in the game until the next stoppage of play.

While the penalty shot is being taken, players of both sides shall withdraw to the sides of the rink and in front of their own player’s bench.

[coryroth24 15]

Guess I should have kept reading!!!! Gotta love some of the hypocrisy of the NHL's rules. The puck has to keep moving forward, but it's okay to spin around with it, thus bringing the puck away from the goal line. Oh well, that solves that mystery...

[Rustpot 1]

It's just an exception to the rule. The puck must continue forward unless the player uses a 360 move. You can't pass the puck with your hand unless the player is in the defensive end. You can't clear the puck over the glass unless it's from a deflection. You can't trip a player unless you get the puck first.

It's not hypocrisy, it's amending the rules for allowable play.

[greech 4]

Ryan Shannon did it last year and there were no issues, don't see why it'd become a problem now.

[coryroth24 15]

Ryan Shannon did it last year and there were no issues, don't see why it'd become a problem now.

Grumpy Devils fans. Enough said... :lol:

And by the way, the Spinarama amendment is not included in USAH rules. So watch for this Beer Leaguers!

[mrusse01 0]

technically, the puck is still moving when he does the spinorama, so shouldnt it be legal?

The puck moves backwards and the player stops his forward momentum as well. It's not legal based on the rules as they are written but the NHL isn't about to disallow any shootout goal unless it's really bad.

The puck moves backwards when you toe drag it does it not? The 'Getzlaf Move' would thus be illegal because he pulls the puck back.

It's a good goal. The real issue with the spinarama is that it often results in goalie interference. That shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but again, no ref in the NHL has the balls to ever call something like that.

[adam14 182]

the datsyuk and getzlaf moves would be allowed, because the puck is still moving forward thanks to momentum, and therefore is a legal move.

[mgoblue 0]

Seems to me that just about any legitimate shot fake would necessitate pulling the puck back (and, inherently, reversing the puck's motion requires the puck to come to a complete stop momentarily).

One time a guy from my team called me out on this in the lockerroom after I had scored in a shootout using a pretty exaggerated shot-fake. When people threw out the counter-example of Datsyuk's move, he claimed that indeed Datsyuk was whistled down for the move when he used it in a shootout overseas.

It's all well and good until someone is ruled to have bent the rules a bit too much...

[adam14 182]

nah he wasnt, the move was question by the opposing coach, but it was allowed.

[mrusse01 0]

the datsyuk and getzlaf moves would be allowed, because the puck is still moving forward thanks to momentum, and therefore is a legal move.

I don't know, Burns throws on the brakes and pulls it back at the same time...are you sure the puck doesn't travel backwards at some point there? If I skated in really slowly and pulled it back for a wrister, that wouldn't be allowed?

Whatever, that's a dumb rule anyways, and the spinarama is specifically allowed in the rulebook, so I don't see how anybody can question the Blake goal last night unless you are suggesting the rule should be changed.

[mgoblue 0]

nah he wasnt, the move was question by the opposing coach, but it was allowed.

Do you know when/where this happened?

I'm surprised he wasn't making it up completely.

[Chadd 916]

technically, the puck is still moving when he does the spinorama, so shouldnt it be legal?

The puck moves backwards and the player stops his forward momentum as well. It's not legal based on the rules as they are written but the NHL isn't about to disallow any shootout goal unless it's really bad.

The puck moves backwards when you toe drag it does it not? The 'Getzlaf Move' would thus be illegal because he pulls the puck back.

It's a good goal. The real issue with the spinarama is that it often results in goalie interference. That shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but again, no ref in the NHL has the balls to ever call something like that.

There is a difference between a normal stickhandling play, like a toe drag, and a play where you stop the overall forward motion of your body and the puck. I forgot that the NHL actually went back and amended the rule after the spin was used. I do agree that there is often interference when a guy scores on one of those plays, and I believe the first one was really blatant.

I'd just like to see the NHL remove rules in regards to the shootout instead of adding more. Anything goes as long as you don't interfere with the goalie or use your hands and feet to directly put it in the net. Give the player a five second clock and they can do whatever they need to do in order to score.

[mgoblue 0]

I'd just like to see the NHL remove rules in regards to the shootout instead of adding more. Anything goes as long as you don't interfere with the goalie or use your hands and feet to directly put it in the net. Give the player a five second clock and they can do whatever they need to do in order to score.

Who doesn't love a good wrap-around?

[adam14 182]

nah he wasnt, the move was question by the opposing coach, but it was allowed.

Do you know when/where this happened?

I'm surprised he wasn't making it up completely.

during the lockout, i think it was in russia, maybe in sweden, cant remember entirely.

[mrusse01 0]

I'd just like to see the NHL remove rules in regards to the shootout instead of adding more. Anything goes as long as you don't interfere with the goalie or use your hands and feet to directly put it in the net. Give the player a five second clock and they can do whatever they need to do in order to score.

That's a great idea. The all-time shooting % is only 33%, so it's not like we need more rules on there to restrict goal scoring. It would be awesome to see what some guys would come up with.

[Rustpot 1]

I'd just like to see the NHL remove rules in regards to the shootout instead of adding more. Anything goes as long as you don't interfere with the goalie or use your hands and feet to directly put it in the net. Give the player a five second clock and they can do whatever they need to do in order to score.

That's a great idea. The all-time shooting % is only 33%, so it's not like we need more rules on there to restrict goal scoring. It would be awesome to see what some guys would come up with.

That was the premise for the "Slam Dunk" competition at the ASG last year. Complete bust, the players knew before hand they were given freedom and most made regular moves or over the top plays that were useless.

[mgoblue 0]

Don't you think there's a bit more on the line in a regular-season NHL shootout than the slam-whogivesashit competition?

More incentive to be creative, yeah?

[Chadd 916]

I'd just like to see the NHL remove rules in regards to the shootout instead of adding more. Anything goes as long as you don't interfere with the goalie or use your hands and feet to directly put it in the net. Give the player a five second clock and they can do whatever they need to do in order to score.

That's a great idea. The all-time shooting % is only 33%, so it's not like we need more rules on there to restrict goal scoring. It would be awesome to see what some guys would come up with.

That was the premise for the "Slam Dunk" competition at the ASG last year. Complete bust, the players knew before hand they were given freedom and most made regular moves or over the top plays that were useless.

Most NHL players aren't going to practice moves they can't use in a game.

[Rustpot 1]

Don't you think there's a bit more on the line in a regular-season NHL shootout than the slam-whogivesashit competition?

More incentive to be creative, yeah?

No. In the ASG it doesn't matter if you score or not, so doing some crazy, off the wall move and having fun is what it was about. You can do anything, no risk.

In a game you don't take as many risks. If you jumped out for a shootout and you try a crazy ass move that fails, chances are your coach isn't going to send you in to the next one. The risk of wasting a chance is too high to start getting really creative. Sure, you could practice, but how many teams devote that much time to shootouts in practice when they rarely see them in a game?

Most NHL players aren't going to practice moves they can't use in a game.

My point was most of them didn't even try anything fun. You take the rules away and most of the guys treated it like a regular penalty shot with some stickwork they wouldn't risk in a game at most.

I can see where you think they wouldn't have them in a bag of tricks just ready to pull out, but I'm pretty sure if someone told me that I was going to be in a show-off shootout torunament with no rules (where the NHL pretty much stressed "They can start from anywhere!") I'm going to think of something to try the night before to jerk around on the ice with.

[mgoblue 0]

No. In the ASG it doesn't matter if you score or not, so doing some crazy, off the wall move and having fun is what it was about. You can do anything, no risk.

I'm operating under the assumption that getting creative would increase one's ability to score, a necessary assumption for your analogy to be valid since in the ASG, getting creative increases one's chances of winning.