They voted for change.............

[Jason Harris 31]

Is it just me or are all the "Support the President" type from Bush the ones that are completely against Obama?

And all of the people that bitched about Bush are making excuses for Obama. I would prefer to see a government that was more fiscally responsible.

The problem is there is no consensus among economists what is fiscally responsible. I've read articles saying Obama's policies will lead us to an even worse economy, and I've read articles saying we'll be sunk if we don't implement these policies. And all of the articles cite lessons from the past as proof for their positions.

[chippa13 1844]

Further proof that Economis is a false science.

[TBLfan 25]

It's those Economic morons that had the wonderful speculation to drive up gas prices and help put the final strangle hold on the wonderful economy we have now. They are like weather forecasters without the technology and with our financial future at stake.

[Chadd 916]

I think that happens with every regime change. The folks with the old are unhappy about getting crapped on during the current election and the new don't want to admit that who they ushered in cannot, in fact, walk on water. It tends to be more polarized after a two-term president.

I think it's also a reflection of a society that is getting more and more polarized.

[DavidT 11]

We're a country full of morons is what it boils down to. That's the best economic prediction.

[DarkStar50 679]

My hockey locker room banter has turned into the Rush right vs the Lib left. It is no fun anymore. It is whoever yells loudest thinks they are right. Christ, we are all in this together!!

[ebladeshockey8 0]

what the hell did you expect..."its been two months and nothing has changed, i thought it was time for change"...did you not hear obamas speeches, how he said it wont be easy, and it wont be quick...expect for all this bullshit to last another year or two, possibly even more than that

[chippa13 1844]

Defensive much?

[mack 44]

No, just reiterating the truth that stuff takes time. Congress has generally always dragged its heels and not done a lot of anything but it's not like the economy went from where Clinton left it went straight to the shitter in two months. It took time.

[number21 3]

My hockey locker room banter has turned into the Rush right vs the Lib left. It is no fun anymore. It is whoever yells loudest thinks they are right.

Just like the TV! :P

...we are all in this together!!

-- exactly.

[Chadd 916]

No, just reiterating the truth that stuff takes time. Congress has generally always dragged its heels and not done a lot of anything but it's not like the economy went from where Clinton left it went straight to the shitter in two months. It took time.

Actually, the seeds of the housing debacle stem from policies Clinton initiated to encourage home ownership among the those with low income and/or poor credit. Bush expanded upon those programs and made the problem worse.

Christ, we are all in this together!!

We should be, but in reality there is a huge battle between the two sides with a few of us caught in the middle. If we were together, things might move forward instead of lurching right or left every few years.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Here's what burns my ass about politics and politicians. With so many people's fortunes (figuratively and literally) hanging on what the people in charge do...it SHOULD be serious and stoic. I can't really speak for the American political process...but up here it's more like kids fighting over the toys in a sandbox than actually doing any damn good.

I have a few friends who are VERY politically minded and now that I work at a Talk station...I am hearing more and more than ever before about how important the process is...and how important voting is, and how this guy is better than that guy...but seriously...take away the colored maps...and the stupid logos and slogans...and I can't see one damn thing different between left and right, blue and red (add orange and green up here)...elephant and ass.

It doesn't matter who you vote for the GOVERNMENT will always win.

Skeptic...yes.

Cynical...yes.

But, politics has yet to prove me wrong (in my life anyway).

[Tricky4L 0]

Is it just me or are all the "Support the President" type from Bush the ones that are completely against Obama?

And all of the people that bitched about Bush are making excuses for Obama. I would prefer to see a government that was more fiscally responsible.

A Government more fiscally responsible? Please tell you aren't referencing the Bush administration on this one. The amount of money misappropriated, misused, and outright stolen as a result of the Bush administration's overuse of no bid contracts is staggering!! If anyone is outraged about 160some million in bonuses to AIG, have a look at the 1.4 Billion that Halliburton picked up from tax payers from a no bid contract that Pentagon auditors determined was payment for unfulfilled services.

I understand that your point is more about Govt. spending in general especially as it pertains to the stimulus measures, bailout & industry loans, and the soon to be Federal Budget. But I think the move away from the privatization of our social services and especially OUR MILITARY and it's services is a huge step in the right direction. The argument that the private sector can operate more effectively and efficiently then then public sector is completely void when the private sector has little to no billing limit for their services (or lack thereof,) or fear that their business could be lost to their competition.

[Chadd 916]

Is it just me or are all the "Support the President" type from Bush the ones that are completely against Obama?

And all of the people that bitched about Bush are making excuses for Obama. I would prefer to see a government that was more fiscally responsible.

A Government more fiscally responsible? Please tell you aren't referencing the Bush administration on this one.

Sorry to waste all the time you put into your rant but, no. I was not calling the Bush administration fiscally responsible. The administration spent money like a drunken sailor. Of course, this administration is not showing any signs of being more responsible.

[Cheesehead 0]

It seems like Obama is trying to end the economic downturn with his version of the new deal. FDR did it during the Great Depression and it actually made the Depression longer and somewhat worse. The real thing that got us out of the Great Depression was World War II because it created so many jobs with the huge increase in demand.

This makes me wonder, how will we get out of the current economic downturn? Will we ride it out or will something create demand for production and tons of jobs?

[Tricky4L 0]

Is it just me or are all the "Support the President" type from Bush the ones that are completely against Obama?

And all of the people that bitched about Bush are making excuses for Obama. I would prefer to see a government that was more fiscally responsible.

A Government more fiscally responsible? Please tell you aren't referencing the Bush administration on this one.

Sorry to waste all the time you put into your rant but, no. I was not calling the Bush administration fiscally responsible. The administration spent money like a drunken sailor. Of course, this administration is not showing any signs of being more responsible.

No worries, with how much I digress... yeah no worries.

[tro 4]

My dad had a saying "Making a problem is easy as shit, fixing the problem is hard as fuck"

Obama was handed the keys to a shitty beat down late 80's Ford Taurus, that has new problems that come up everyday and people expect him to turn it into a Ferrari in two months, get real. He ain't Xzibit.

I think it is easy to say that no President has been giving the country in such bad condition in the history of the USA. Dude needs to stop printing money like a mad man and making it rain on Wall Street and the banks every week, but there are so many problems with so many different compaines that they need to react fast and aggressive or this recession will turn into a depression quickly.

Not only that, he has to deal with two wars he didn't start.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

see, obama is growing on me... he's putting careful thought into his decisions and realizes it's damnded if you do damned if you dont... my issue right now doesnt rest with the executive, its the morons in congress. on both sides. they're pounding the country into the ground.

[Ital79 0]

It's those Economic morons that had the wonderful speculation to drive up gas prices and help put the final strangle hold on the wonderful economy we have now. They are like weather forecasters without the technology and with our financial future at stake.

NO-NO-NO!

Speculation did not drive up oil/gas prices, this is a sleight of hand politicians keep screaming from their pulpit. If they say this lie enough they hope it becomes a truth.

Speculation is nothing more than buying insurance. Industries that rely on oil enter into derivative contracts to minimize their risk exposure. They don't make huge amounts of money from it, nor do they lose huge amounts of money - it's all about hedging their risk to wild price fluctuations.

To put it in hockey equipment terms; it would be like Warrior speculating that the price of carbon fiber for their sticks may increase greatly in the future. In order to control their costs and not rape the customer on price, they sign a contract saying they'll buy X amount of carbon fiber at Y price on such-n-such date. That's called buying forward.

There's other ways to do this, the above example is the most simple.

If you think about it hard enough, you can see you have entered into derivative contracts before. Have car insurance? How about homeowners' or renters' insurance? Those are derivative contracts my friend & you are speculating and you don't even know it!

What spikes the price of commodities is a mix of supply/demand & stability. If the oil producing countries in OPEC decide to cut production. guess what? Prices increase. What's lacking is stability in the market and to make things more stable, a secure source of oil is needed. We have them all over the US, but due to government regulations & litigation from environmental groups - we can't drill or refine.

The same amount of crude is being pumped out of OPEC & other oil producing nations...but emerging markets are now using more. So were back to supply:demand. A small fluctuation in the stability of oil production now has greater effects on industries who use that commodity. This causes 'speculators' to be more active in derivative markets so they can minimize their risk. Oil prices shoot up and then everything you do or consume now costs more.

Remember: politicians are inherently incapable of assuming responsibility for anything that does wrong. They point fingers & spend other people's money...that's it.

..........................................

They're now screaming about the banking industry being under-regulated. Well, out of every banking industry in the world - the US bank system is by far the most regulated. Take a guess what other industry is highly regulated? Oil & Energy...coincidence? I think not.

The problem with the economy is property values and not the banking industry or greed on Wall Street. Default rates on homes wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now if property values did not crash. People who couldn't afford their homes could have simply sold it, turn a profit, and avoided delinquency.

But addressing property values is difficult to get into a sound-bite and isn't a sure fire way to piss people off in order to get their votes. So it's class warfare - blame the rich. Get people distracted enough and you can do anything you want. Obama is on his way to a huge power-grab and seeks control of everyone's actions, words, and life. From cradle to grave, the government will be on your back telling you what you can and cannot do. Right now, he's toying with the idea of having the government seize control of struggling companies. Well, if that's not a recipe for disaster I don't know what is. First off, the shareholders (read: your retirement & your parent's retirement) is wiped out to ZERO. Second, a political hack will be 'appointed' to run said company. From there, laws & regulations will be put in place to not allow the company to thrive. From salary caps, redundant auditing, and having Big Brother over their shoulder for every decision they make is not how a company operates.

Uncle Sam did such a cracker-jack job with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac & is doing such a wonderful job with Social Security/Medicare - what could possibly go wrong? In a nutshell - everything.

Things will get worse my friends. Government is not the solution and why people thought it was necessary to elect a Democrat from Chicago is beyond me...

(I'm from Chicago BTW & I'm aware of how the politicians work here...)

[TBLfan 25]

That's a lot of words that says a whole lot of nothing.

[Ital79 0]

That's a lot of words that says a whole lot of nothing.

Sorry if it flew over your head. Explaining derivative pricing, collateralized debt obligations, GAPP, & a legion of other business stuff isn't exactly easy on a message board. But if you take anything from my post, it is that the government will not fix anything and will certainly make things worse.

[TBLfan 25]

It didn't fly over my head, you rambled a lot about nothing.

Speculation does drive prices and the government didn't do anything to help. Was that soo hard?

[Ital79 0]

Speculation does drive prices and the government didn't do anything to help. Was that soo hard?

Instability drives price & speculators buy/sell contracts to mitigate risk. More risk = more speculating/hedging

Speculation happens world-wide and is not something that happens only in the US. The US government cannot regulate Luftansa from entering derivative contracts as it is not a US company.

Hedging/speculating, as a whole, is insignificant when pricing commodities. There is no conspiracy as speculating is a zero sum gain. There's a reason speculators would go long in a commodity and it's not so they can all reap the benefits. It's b/c new information has emerged and they all go 'oh shit' and buy options. This 'information' is what can cause a commodity to become more or less valuable. You can also call it 'instability'.

To somehow say that 'speculating' is Un-American or the cause of all our woes is flat-out wrong. 99% of people do not know WTF speculating really is or what a derivative is. Speculating is nothing more than buying an insurance policy...just like you have on your home & car. (For the record; you have a 'put' option on both your home & car)

If that's too difficult to swallow and comes off as rambling...well...I can't make it any more simple.

[mrusse01 0]

They're now screaming about the banking industry being under-regulated. Well, out of every banking industry in the world - the US bank system is by far the most regulated.

Sorry, that is 100% incorrect. Canada is one example of a country that has a banking system far more regulated than that of the United States. Without knowing for certain, I would hazard a guess that numerous European countries also have a much more regulated system.

The economy's problem is not 'property values', it is the system that allowed those values to spiral out of control.

Each financial crises brings about the realization that the efficient market hypothesis is woefully inadequate, but as soon as the next asset price bubble comes along everybody will forget that and scream at the government to ease back on regulation and let the 'free market' do it's thing.

[mrusse01 0]

Speculation is nothing more than buying insurance. Industries that rely on oil enter into derivative contracts to minimize their risk exposure.

Speculation is simply assuming risk of loss in exchange for a possible reward, it is not confined to derivative contracts. Any type of investment is somewhat speculative.

In common useage, 'speculation' is a dirty word because it is used to imply taking an ill-informed risk.