Graf Canada runs a shady business

[Chadd 916]

So with all this slander going on, is Graf gonna sue the lot of us?

Since it's true and people can back up the statements, I don't see where we would have a problem.

[MDE3 0]

Yes it's only slander if the events related are not true....as retail customers everyone has the right to pass their opinion on the product as well, and the statement of their president seemed to reinforce a sense of distain for their own customers..illustrating a certain arrogance towards those who pay their bills.

Threatening a customer with retribution if he or she speaks publicly about a product flaw, sounds pretty draconian to me. Much simpler to fix the problem. But it would seem based on this customer's experience and the written reaction to his problem, that Graf Canada may be more concerned about their image than their reality. That's usually the sound of doom for any company.

[djinferno 2]

I don't like the way the President of a company replied to an unhappy customer. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?" especially in this case where he IS right.

Exactly what I was thinking... I was so surprized and kind of took back by the hole thing that I almost had a nervous breakdown (Called in sick that day) :(

And after having me go to my Hockey Store witch happens to be one of your retailers and them sending you the skate twice cause they had a problem, you would figure that it would be a non issue..... It's not like i'm telling you this sitting at home saying i'm unhappy, your trusted retailer is telling you that theres a stupid problem

[Scores 0]

I think that the decision is easy based on the comments I've read...don't buy Graf - we all live (well most of us) in a democracy...still a freedom that we have.

Maybe someone at Graf will wake up and smell the 'boot'...

[djinferno 2]

does anybody help me with this... tell what i should do etc...

[MDE3 0]

does anybody help me with this... tell what i should do etc...

Take clear photos of the boot shape..not just the views you have shown us in here...we cannot see the boot deformation that must be causing this problem...at least it sure sounds that one boot is improperly formed..If you have a friend at an attorney's office, make sure you put all your data including any written responses from Graf Canada on the legal letterhead, and send the data directly to this yahoo who is the apparent president of Graf Canada....appologizing profusely that you as a customer are taking up so much of his precious time...

On this letterhead include your letter of explanation that because you have been so baffled by this insoluable problem, you are obliged to go out on the internet with all this data to see if you can possibly find a solution within the more knowledgeable hockey equipment forums..sticking to "the facts...only the facts" in a dedicated search for the true cause of, and possibly a solution to, this problem...so you and others may avoid it in the future......

It may not correct your problem....but it should most certainly cause this %$#(*& enough indigestion to evoke the personal satisfaction that you may have ruined his day.

Some others in here have taken a much less aggressive position vis a vis that of Graf...in the understanding that all manufacturers have problems from time to time....however the mark of the good ones is how they handle these situations..and if the data you have shown us in here is complete and accurate, then your experience is outrageous enough that it merits being shared and the perp pillared for all to see.

[Jim A 4]

At the same time, sometimes that's the benefit of a relationship with a retailer..

why we've all taken back things just to get a customer out of the shop..there are also times when we've taken things back because someone has given us so much of their business..

i took back 2 pairs of an ice skate last year from a kid ..the 1st pair..yeah..it was borderline..the 2nd pair..not really a defect imo..but the dad far outspends that in the shop..and we may have/have not gotten back credit on that..but saved a customer..and that's what it comes down to..

[djinferno 2]

and if the data you have shown us in here is complete and accurate, then your experience is outrageous enough that it merits being shared and the perp pillared for all to see.

This is as accurate as it gets.... They ignore the problem even after my LHS returned the product twice telling them that it was wrong... Now I don't think that any local hockey store would want to stick there neck out and send a product back that was not defective...

[sikocycles 1]

I was so thinking about a pair of G9s but this has really change my mind.

[Buzz_LightBeer 974]

I think this (scenario, not the duarbitlity issue) is the exception and not the rule, we've had wonderful relations with graf in the past, but this does seem like a shady way to deal with it.

[Aussie Joe 0]

"the customer is always right"

Working in customer service I can tell you that 75% of the time the customer is WRONG and just whinging to get something for free. This sort of behaviour from the public demoralises companies and makes TRUE customer complaints like this one seem smaller and ungenuine than it is.

Consider going to Graf Swiss about this problem. After all its their name thats being dragged through the mud. And their distributors/agents are obviously not concerned with customer satisfaction rather $$$ signs.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

I was thinking the same thing, however, it is not the same owners...

[kosydar 0]

You could hope someone high up at Graf reads this board, sees the situation, and wants to make good on it, if for no other reason than to save face.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

It doesn't get higher than Mike Hill...

[jay 1]

I also think the big clincher on this deal being pure bull is that the skates were sent in by the shop and not the individual. I find it even more appalling that they can't and won't support the dealers warranty claim. A good shop should right now start re-considering wether they want to fit guys for Graf saktes knowing the quality control is poor and if they do need to be replaced the customer is likely going to be screwed.

[anotherlin 0]

Graf switzerland website is: http://www.grafskates.ch/

Unfortunately, there's no email in the contact area, just address

and phone numbers.

djinferno, may be you should write a complaint letter to "Michael

Graf" (that's his name?). He's the guy higher than "Mike Hill".

At over $350 for most skates, Graf Canada should really stand

behind their products, especially if they brand themselves as

high end high quality skates manufacturer.

Also, most hockey companies are part of big world companies,

controlled by share holders. They make most of their products

overseas. I thought Graf Canada was different and better,

I'm quite disappointed.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Anotherlin, once again, Graf CH and Graf CA are not the same...

The name is licensed, however the factory is 100% owned by Graf Canada. They have to make the skates to the Swiss specs however...

Mike Hill is the man at Graf CA.

[djinferno 2]

Anotherlin, once again, Graf CH and Graf CA are not the same...

The name is licensed, however the factory is 100% owned by Graf Canada.  They have to make the skates to the Swiss specs however...

Mike Hill is the man at Graf CA.

thats right, Mike Hill is the man for Canada and from his letter, he does not give a dam what I say....

Maybe someone should send him a e-mail with the link to my post and the consumers reactions, I'm sure that won't get me new skates (After all this I would not trust them to give me a non defect pair anyway...) but maybe it would teach him and his lawer degree a thing or two about customer service...

I can't beleive theres not one rep from every companie on this board... There research would profit greatluy from there customers opinions, would help there products to know what people want and don't want.... I always said, the people calling the shots are never the best in knowing what peiple want....

[Chadd 916]

Graf is the only "major" brand not here in some manner.

[Dave 1]

I guess the name of the Swiss Graf owner is Charles Graf. Not sure, though.

Being a (Swiss) Graf skate lover, I was thinking about writing to Graf Switzerland (in German or French, one of those languages is their local language) hinting them to the fact that the North American hockey player community is seeing the quality of Graf products (and of the Graf CS) going downhill.

I do not know if that would be read, but according to someone here on this board, Charles Graf goes to Canada once a year to check the Graf production facilities. He should be worried about his name getting stains.

[anotherlin 0]

Anotherlin, once again, Graf CH and Graf CA are not the same...

The name is licensed, however the factory is 100% owned by Graf Canada. They have to make the skates to the Swiss specs however...

Mike Hill is the man at Graf CA.

I'm well aware of that. They are not the same. However

Graf Canada licenses the name of Graf Switzerland. If

you can somehow talk to Graf Switzerland and make

them understand that Graf Canada is doing a lousy job

and driving their name in the mud, maybe they can do

something. Ultimately, Graf Switzerland decides whether

or not they want to license their name.

Personally, if I were Graf Switzerland, I would be pissed.

[hockeydude2003 0]

ok graf makes a good quality boot, ive never had a problem. id rather deal with graf then any other company. Atleast a graf G series boot will last longer then 6 months. Oh and JR how bout ur missionss500's werent your soles bent so. every company doesnt make a perfect skate. so screw all of u for putting down graf since they make a quality boot and they may of deemed what was wrong with his skates repairable instead of replace able.

[Chadd 916]

so screw all of u for putting down graf since they make a quality boot and they may of deemed what was wrong with his skates repairable instead of replace able.

Very mature.

Every manufacturer makes mistakes, it's how they fix the mistakes that makes the difference.

[mack 44]

ok graf makes a good quality boot, ive never had a problem. id rather deal with graf then any other company. Atleast a graf G series boot will last longer then 6 months. Oh and JR how bout ur missionss500's werent your soles bent so. every company doesnt make a perfect skate. so screw all of u for putting down graf since they make a quality boot and they may of deemed what was wrong with his skates repairable instead of replace able.

Don't be such a douche nozzle, douche nozzle.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Interesting, Sean...the G series has been out less than 6 months...let's wait til then before we start making assessments.

Yes, my 500s were bent. KEEP IN MIND...I did have that skate for three weeks. When you saw that skate THAT DAY (which was Jan 17th), it marked the day after the skate was debuted at the show. Why yes, ol' Boucie over here pulled one out of his ass and got skates before they hit the market! I believe the blades were mounted by a certain product manager on this board even! He was alerted of the problem as well as another problem on the PITCH holder and they were dealt with and refined. End of story.

Nowhere in my posts have I mentioned that everyone else makes a perfect skate. Of course nobody does. It's the way that you deal with the retailer/customer in the end that makes a difference. I had a problem with SW a few weeks ago and the customer was very irate. They ended up screwing up and losing his custom goal pad order, but you know what? They gave him a few goal sticks for the inconvenience. Know what? He'll use SW again.

I know that BNH and Mission and CCM will take care of me and the customer if there is a problem. I don't get that feeling with Graf...I get stuck with an unhappy customer and I, as a dealer, am left twisting in the wind. Ah, that sure gives me a warm feeling inside...especially after it took them 4 years to actually give us the account instead of a guy who had a shop that opened for 15 hrs a week if you were lucky. All I gotta say is God help TPS...I'd hate to see how stick warranties are going to be handled...