Graf Skates - Few NHL Players

[IceSkatingLife 0]

Out of curiosity, exactly how much of the "other brands" do you carry?

We carry Graf, Reebok, and Bauer skates.

AFAIK the amount of players that have million dollar sponsorship's are an extremely small handful. The vast majority of NHL players aren't sponsored and use whatever equipment they are the most comfortable with.

You are correct. There are not that many making a million of sponcerships. However there are quite a few getting anywhere from $40k-4 mill.

Second sentence included the fact that they are a Graf dealer. Everything after that is conjecture.

Graf among many others. My Semi-Bias feeling comes only from the FACT that day after day i deal with issues related to hockey equipment. From and out of the box to several years down the road i see the fewest issues with Graf. I will also state the Baure has a very good skate as well, how ever not as comfortable to most. There are some brands that I can guarantee will have bent blades 75% of the time straight out of the box.

[IceSkatingLife 0]

For the record, we carry Graf, Reebok / CCM and Bauer brand skates and several other brands of equipement.

My statements are merly based of the FACTS that i see the warranty issues ( out of the box as well as after use) and customers replacing poorly made products after only several months of use. As far as skates go I would put Graf and Bauer at the top. Graf happens to be more comfotable to most than Bauer and offer a better foot bed than any other.

We always fit customers onto several skates and allow them to make the choice. More times than not they find the Graf the most comfortable.

[TeamHonda401 54]

Regarding quality control issues, Graf has had just as many issues as any other manufacturer, if not more. Threads like these are way too common around here.

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/59798-new-grafsoh-oh/

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/4840-graf-canada-runs-a-shady-business/

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/43211-misaligned-holders/

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/30956-graf-canada-sucks-run-like-a-mickey-mouse-operation/

Now I can't comment on their quality control since their ownership changed recently, but stories like the ones above are way more common to Graf than any other brand.

[Chadd 916]

You are correct. There are not that many making a million of sponcerships. However there are quite a few getting anywhere from $40k-4 mill.

Your definition of "quite a few" is obviously much, much different than mine. Very few guys are getting paid real money and the number making 7 figures could easily be counted on one hand. With extra fingers left over.

[minnsy 15]

The shop I worked at for a while placed an order for a pair of Graf goalie skates. They shipped us the goalie skates...without the cowlings.

To this day (1-2 years later), I believe those cowling-less goalie skates are sitting in the back of the shop, and Graf never sent us a replacement.

Possibly related to that, we no longer carry Graf skates.

[arcsinice 6]

To answer the gentleman in Toronto's question...........

Graf are nearly a no show within the NHL due to the fact they do not pay - sponsor players to use their product, it's just that matter of fact. Anyone on the ice within the NHL or any other league or patch of ice pays for Graf, period. Other brands, all in fact are, for starters, from publically traded company. Not so Graf, be same the Canadian or Swiss licensed privately held business. Way big financial difference to put it mildly. No responder on this board has made remark this nor about how the principal big two/three companies - above all one - flood as in tsunami the NHL (as well other leagues, collegiate and even in certain market high schools - such as my old high school!) with more free or beyond fully paid for equipment than Heinz have tomato in North America or beans in England. To think this is not beyond influential for the average gomer buyer is to believe that Obama is honest and not a Marxist, as well, not out to destroy the once great United States. This also in no small part explains why product is, as a result principally made in China so as to defray the massive "marketing" expenses. Do any of you have any idea what the REAL cost to any of the big boys for any of their top three - five tier skates happens to be. Hint................ You do not want to know. You really don't. I'm all for profit but.................

A number of years ago one major supplier had become so effectively out of hand as per their cannibalizing the NHL with endless free equipment that a second competing manufacturer and their parent company threatened a lawsuit which was finally "settled" by that scumwad Bettman from his lair on 6th Avenue.....................

The notion that Graf do not produce product that is more than capable vis-à-vis "technology", etc. is pure myopic nonsense of which there is no shortage on the part of the majority of today's buyers be they player or recreationalist. This hallucinatory belief as per the "latest" and most "technologically advanced" product has become a true Achilles Heel in today's market with more dumbed down buyers truly believing that this year's model of brand X, Y or Z (but never G) is somehow better to that of no more than one or two more years previous. Sadly, hockey equipment manufacturers have become that much more adept at marketing this nonsense and have clearly taken numerous pages out of high end bicycle manufactures propaganda who, for well into fifteen years have seen through the inherent stupidity - gullibility at a minimum - of the ignorant gomer high end bicycle buyer and believe that this year's model IS superior to everything heretofore and will make them faster. And at no small price. High end racing bike for $9,000.00 plus...............??

And the best part.............., made in Taiwan and/or China for chrissake.

After all, this or that racer uses it, it's beyond heavily marketed (more available shareholder equity used for marketing and advertising and it's ALL supplied to the highly influential and sponsored professional for free) so it's therefore 100% the bike not the racer, right? Of course. The same today holds true in hockey equipment......... So and so is on these ubiquitous latest and greatest skates or uses this latest and greatest stick to that of an eternal year ago and if I use same I, too, will be as good if not at least be better................. They even trowel out this sh*t to kids. Hey......, it's a market. Why not? How utterly obscene.

"If they bottled it everyone save for those who have a brain and know better would be buying it to no end and guzzling it down".

No Canadian nor Swiss made Graf is in the least lacking in performance. Not in the least, period. To the contrary. The company is altogether private and their revenue base is miniscule compared to the giants. Graf (Canada) should market themselves which they do not. They're idiots on that alone. Their product line-up is also too vast and needs to be reduced by a solid 70%, focusing on no more than a maximum of four player models and two goalie models. This would critically, needfully drive down their unconscionable overhead, production variables, production time, periodic gaps in quality control and ultimately streamline both cost, efficiency, reliability and delivery for not just themselves, but ultimately their all important dealer - buyer network who do suffer as per the aforementioned. But again, they refuse and trust me, they have been lectured to, to seemingly no avail.

Then there is their abysmal customer service................ And they do have a huge problem regarding customer service against both retailer and user that sadly is 100% theirs which they own but do not want to admit to. For that they ought to be horse whipped. Such is not the case with two/three major companies who take care of their retailer and customer. Graf (Canada) could learn volumes on that but their ownership/management in Canada is again their privately owned management and until that changes I see little pathologically that will sadly ever change. But to claim Graf (Canada) (or European market via Graf of Switzerland) do not design superior performing product is outright bull and demonstrate absolute utter ignorance.

[chippa13 1844]

I stopped reading at "Marxist".

[EvilPepe 24]

Huh. You don't say.

I'm confused, could you explain who is myopic again?

[Chadd 916]

It's funny, no player pays for any of their gear.

Graf are nearly a no show within the NHL due to the fact they do not pay - sponsor players to use their product, it's just that matter of fact. Anyone on the ice within the NHL or any other league or patch of ice pays for Graf, period.

NHL teams pay for the gear, even for the guys whose names are on retail sticks. The players don't pay for anything at the pro level.

[Stewie 721]

I stopped reading at "Marxist".

I only made it to Obama

[TeamHonda401 54]

But to claim Graf (Canada) (or European market via Graf of Switzerland) do not design superior performing product is outright bull and demonstrate absolute utter ignorance.

I don't get this part. So the person that ordered skates from Graf that had rivets sticking through the footbeds is "outright bull and demonstrate absolute utter ignorance"? What about the guy that got goalie skates with no cowlings? Or the guy that got skates with holders mounted a quarter inch out of center? None of that is Graf's fault? Interesting outlook.

[Vet88 674]

Our one and only LHS will not stock Grafs or have anything to do with them. Since I got my Grafs a year ago, I have kind of become the local go to guy to get them checked out because of my determination to get a pair of skates that would work after Graf and the retailer refused to do anything to fix them.

EVERY graf skate I have been asked to check has issues with it, even those that guys thought were fine I found problems. Here's a typical process:

Remove the foot beds and holder.

- Flatten all the staple ends that poke up through the foot bed

- Flatten heads of screw holders so they sit flat in the foot bed (holes in boot drilled on an angle causes this)

- trim screws that poke up into the footbed

- realign holder (by moding holes in holder) to center of boot

- convince the owner to get new steels as the standard graf steels are s**te (bent and you only have to think about going to the rink and they start to rust)

- send them to a local shoe repair guy I have found that has the skill to unstitch the inner and repair the padding in the heel / ankle area

Now we have a boot that works, as it should have done ex factory. Admittedly I haven't seen any of the new line, maybe QC has improved and these problems don't exist anymore but every time I turn the boot over and see those words "Premium Quality" imprinted on the bottom I just have to laugh.

[minnsy 15]

I stopped reading at "Marxist".

I choked on my cheerios at that sentence.

[MN old and slow 92]

Not a bit of rust on my 735s. No bad stitching , alignment. Etc. maybe I got the one good pair. I do dry them completely and remove foot beds right after skate. All equip gets hung up to dry right after every skate.

[laserrobottime 149]

I choked on my cheerios at that sentence.

All of that guys rants are awesome. He can relate Graf's issues to Obama in every post.

[fearthebeard 2]

I must admit that whilst here in the UK Graf are a very minor part of the market after Bauer, CCM/Reebok they are well ahead of Easton. They have always held a sort of love it/hate it reputation but I have never heard of many quality issues. Is the quality issue with Graf Canada alone? Their relative rarity here means you rarely see entry level Graf skates which I always blamed for not seeing more adult skates, my theorem being that as kids are not wearing Graf skates they don't grow up with Graf as the Go To brand as they do with Bauer, CCM etc.

[Mattc555 22]

I really enjoyed my Graf G5's, however the boot softened on me rather quickly. I thought the stitching, materials used, and especially the tongue, were great. The boot lost its stiffness after 700 skates to the point of being unmanageable. I've moved on to a set of Bauer Vapor XXXX. They are stiffer than the G5's and noticeably lighter. The steel holds a sharpening longer and the boot is more protective. Overall, the Bauer's are just better skates for me. YMMV.