The Venting Spot

[EJB 488]

4 hours ago, OptimusReim said:

So they ended up suspending the guy that broke my ankle for two games. That's it. Absolutely ridiculous.

Did you read the refs report?  I'd ask for it.  It would be interesting to see what they wrote down.  

 

Add, if you didn't and the league is USA Hockey sanctioned, make sure you double up with their insurance.

 

[badger_14 601]

A two hour commute home while stained with and reeking of someone else's blood and fluids is not my idea of a good time. 

[Chadd 916]

I may be setting a personal record for the longest, and most expensive, run of bad luck I've ever had. Stereo in the car died, had to replace head, amp and run a lot of new wiring. Once finished, the water pump went out. Normally, that isn't too bad but the engine then overheated as I was nursing it home and it took out the IMS bearing and now the engine is shot. Still waiting to hear about the replacement cost, but it isn't going to be pleasant. Meanwhile, while driving my FJ, I've hit a deer and had a stone crack my windshield. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

On 5/29/2016 at 3:10 PM, EJB said:

Did you read the refs report?  I'd ask for it.  It would be interesting to see what they wrote down.  

 

Add, if you didn't and the league is USA Hockey sanctioned, make sure you double up with their insurance.

 

They mailed me the insurance paperwork. Just have to take a look.

 

I didn't read it, but here's two emails from the league director:

Quote

Did get 1 report from one of the officials. Have a reach out to him as well as his partner. Need to discuss the situation with them. So this could take a couple days. The current report indicates off the face off both parties involved engaged in a violent manor. Have talked with multiple people from both sides as well as some neutral party people. Still gathering some info. So far from what I have gathered the game itself was chippy and refs let a lot of things go. Lots of smack talking on both sides. Once I have the discussion with the officials it should be more clear.

 

Me:

Quote

It was a weird game. I didn't really see any chippiness for the most part except that they'd elbow me every time they'd come near me. I can't figure out why. With all the weeks I missed I think this was only the second time I'd ever played these guys. No idea who any of them were. I did give one of them a whack in the ankle after he elbowed me but thats pretty much it as far as animosity. 

 

On the faceoff they're referring to, I pushed the puck between their center's legs and went after it. We both went down. When I got up, I got jumped and really have no idea what happened after that point besides not being able to get back up and feeling the punches to the back of my head while laying face down on the ice. 

 

Just got my cast on yesterday. Doctor says broken fibula. Luckily no surgery required. He said I can likely be on skates again in 3 months or so. Have you determined what to do with the two guys you suspended? I'm waiting to see what you're going to do to decide what I'm going to do.

 

Director:

Quote

Got it and now you know where you’re at it sounds like. The referees report was minimal . They wrote up #10 Red for a game misconduct for fighting. The other 2 they did write up at all. After I got report I reached out to them to have discussion by phone to review the incident. It took a few days to connect. To them they felt no other Red or White players needed to be written up.

 

So with that information have talked to a number of players on both sides as well as a few others scorekeeper, employees, who was there. #94 who was in penalty box it was determined penalty time was expired and as he jumped out he was quickly turned back and obliged to do so. #13 was on the ice was the other that got into the mix. I gave him a game suspension and we have met and had a good discussion. On #10 I met with him as well and added an extra game to his suspension. These 2 have been told they are on a short leash moving forward. Went into Red locker room and had discussion with the team on the incident. All feel bad of your outcome and do feel they are sincere.  

 

I am sure you’re looking for more here knowing your situation. Have talked with officials on calling games tighter especially at the beginning to set the tone. Games Thursday conduct wise went well. All wish you a speedy recovery.

 

So that's it... kid is back in time for playoffs. If he had just made it 4, it would have ended his season (two rounds single-elimination playoffs). I still wouldn't have been happy (I've seen people banned for less) but I could have at least accepted it. 

 

On the bright side, I managed to find somebody to cover in net for me for my actual team for the rest of the season. I still show up to every game in my crutches or iWalk, wearing my jersey and hat. And sporting my fancy cast. 

 

[psulion22 402]

On 5/29/2016 at 1:55 PM, OptimusReim said:

So they ended up suspending the guy that broke my ankle for two games. That's it. Absolutely ridiculous.

Don't complain.  I had 3 vertebra broken in a game when a player dropped me with a mma-style single leg takedown, lifting me completely off the ice and slamming me down from a height higher than my waist.  He got a double minor because it "wasn't intentional", and I got 2 minutes for knocking him down (off my goaltender who he had intentionally crashed into after a whistle).  So net penalty for breaking my back was 2 minutes, less than a minute per vertebra.  When we followed up with the hockey director for supplementary discipline we were told the refs would not assess a further penalty and said it was no big deal, (I left the ice on a backboard) and he would not do anything further.  He would not take our input because "their team could also get eyewitnesses to say it  wasn't" malicious so he refused to "waste his time".  When we asked about cameras in the rink, he said they didn't have them and they "would have been useless".

 

Mind you, this is the person in charge of the entire hockey operation at a rink owned, operated, and used as a primary location by a NHL franchise.

Edited June 9, 2016 by psulion22

[IPv6Freely 2093]

4 hours ago, psulion22 said:

Don't complain.  I had 3 vertebra broken in a game when a player dropped me with a mma-style single leg takedown, lifting me completely off the ice and slamming me down from a height higher than my waist.  He got a double minor because it "wasn't intentional", and I got 2 minutes for knocking him down (off my goaltender who he had intentionally crashed into after a whistle).  So net penalty for breaking my back was 2 minutes, less than a minute per vertebra.  When we followed up with the hockey director for supplementary discipline we were told the refs would not assess a further penalty and said it was no big deal, (I left the ice on a backboard) and he would not do anything further.  He would not take our input because "their team could also get eyewitnesses to say it  wasn't" malicious so he refused to "waste his time".  When we asked about cameras in the rink, he said they didn't have them and they "would have been useless".

 

Mind you, this is the person in charge of the entire hockey operation at a rink owned, operated, and used as a primary location by a NHL franchise.

I can definitely still complain about it ;)

[psulion22 402]

33 minutes ago, OptimusReim said:

I can definitely still complain about it ;)

 Oh you can for sure.  Just remember it could be worse.  Much, much worse.

Edited June 9, 2016 by psulion22

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

 Oh you can for sure.  Just remember it could be worse. 

For sure. It could have been been a lot worse just in my situation. The break is pretty minimal compared to what it could have been, which meant no surgery! 

[psulion22 402]

16 minutes ago, OptimusReim said:

For sure. It could have been been a lot worse just in my situation. The break is pretty minimal compared to what it could have been, which meant no surgery! 

 That's good news.  I'm sure surgery in that situation is a long recovery.

 

I was given the option for surgery.  Then walked through the process that the surgeon's assistant called "barbaric" and told of the incredible amount of pain I would be in afterwards.  I opted to skip it.  lol

 

And at least you can go to your games or work and hang out.  It took me 2 weeks to be able to get into a car with only tolerable pain.  Heck, it took almost that long to get out of bed by sitting up.  Before that I had to drag myself down to the bottom by the sheets, and teter my body over the edge onto my feet.

 

And no suspension for the guy that did it.

 

Oh, and for good measure, it happened on December 21st.  Merry Xmas to me.

Edited June 9, 2016 by psulion22

[IPv6Freely 2093]

HAHAHA oh my god. They actually gave me a fighting major for the incident. That's amazing.

[badger_14 601]

I'm getting the sense that there are some league managers out there who need to get their priorities straight.   

[psulion22 402]

9 hours ago, OptimusReim said:

HAHAHA oh my god. They actually gave me a fighting major for the incident. That's amazing.

 

That's awesome.

 

2 hours ago, badger_14 said:

I'm getting the sense that there are some league managers out there who need to get their priorities straight.   

 

Yep, and also heads of official's organizations.  USAHockey as a whole needs to begin to look at player safety standards for adult leagues.  Things that may be more tolerable in competitive divisions should not be tolerable in non-competitive divisions.  I have zero respect for any referee that does not emphasize player safety anymore.  And I will take care of things myself if the referees won't now.  Sadly, this approach has been working for me.  By going nuclear on the ice, it has caused directors and officials to take notice.  I make a big enough commotion that they feel something must have happened to get me that angry.  This has also given me the opportunity to talk directly to two of the directors of the rinks I play in, and explain exactly where I'm coming from and what I expect.  So far both of them have responded pretty well.  And actually, I have a better relationship with some of the refs because of it.  They know that I'm not going to get on them for little stuff and that I'm going to look for explanations and remain calm.  And I will commend them if they do a good job, and give specific details.  I do the same to the directors when refs do a good job.  Just last game the refs (specifically one who I used to hate) ejected two players with no ceremony.  One head butted one of my guys.  And it was immediate - whistle, went right over to the door, and told the guy to get off.  He tried to argue but there just wasn't the opportunity.  Very good job.  Everyone knows that is a no-no, but the process is usually a lot less efficient.  A second guy was ejected for simply throwing a punch in a net front scrum, even with his glove on.  That's something that happens in a lot of games for all of us.  It may be only 2 minutes, if that, in the NHL or travel hockey, but there is no place for it in adult hockey.  I think that was the first time I've seen someone tossed for it, as it usually goes unpenalized.  I told the refs after the handshakes how impressed I was.  And I searched out the league director to tell him too.

 

I am a strong believer that referees should be taking an overly cautious approach to these things.  There should be a lot more guys complaining that they were thrown out for no reason than ones wondering how a ref could let that go.  At least if you go overboard, you can give a definitive reason to the player.  It puts the responsibility on the player to not do dumb things.

 

[chippa13 1844]

Refs with an itchy trigger finger are just as bad for a league as refs who swallow their whistles. Both create frustration in players which can lead to very problematic situations.

[psulion22 402]

40 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Refs with an itchy trigger finger are just as bad for a league as refs who swallow their whistles. Both create frustration in players which can lead to very problematic situations.

 I don't necessarily mean that they should be calling every ticky tack play.  But there are things that need to be deemed unacceptible, other than those already called match penalties.

 

An intentional body check (in a no-check league), for example.  That should be an ejection.  End of story.  Any head contact should be a minor.  If two guys are shoving and one goes high and gets the other in the head, it should be 2.  If one throws a punch, even with a glove on, that makes head contact, it's an ejection.  Those are the big two that I see most often that are very easily identified and can be enforced with less subjectivity.  Neither has a place in a no-check adult league.  And I find that, especially in lower leagues, those are the two things that players who don't know any better immediately turn to when they don't like something.  Often the two things don't equate.  A player gets hooked and he turns and checks the guy.  Or there's a battle in front of the net and someone's immediate reaction is to go for the head.  Those kinds of things.

 

The stuff I'm talking about is already supposed to be penalized in Adult male classifications.  The standard of enforcement needs to be emphasized.

 

In my case, a player violated a rule, either tripping or unnecessary roughness, causing an injury.  That's an automatic 5 and game.  It wasn't called appropriately.

Edited June 10, 2016 by psulion22

[badger_14 601]

3 hours ago, psulion22 said:

 

The stuff I'm talking about is already supposed to be penalized in Adult male classifications.  The standard of enforcement needs to be emphasized.

 

In my case, a player violated a rule, either tripping or unnecessary roughness, causing an injury.  That's an automatic 5 and game.  It wasn't called appropriately.

 

Interestingly, for whatever reason, almost none of the adult leagues around here (in fact, only one that I know of) is USAHockey sanctioned or affiliated.  So for us, it's really up to whoever's running the league (or rink). 

 

At any rate, you're right - it's having a consistent standard of enforcement, and having concern for the players' safety, rather than for the $25 per game.  Or worrying about "image" or hurting someone's feelings (and I do understand that sometimes "hurt feelings" lead to "smashed faces in the parking lot", so I get a certain degree of wariness), which I think is more the problem here.  That is, some league managers are more concerned with having teams and players (and their money) return, and/or with not wanting to look like they're taking the "fun" out of hockey by not letting people bust each other up.  But "it's not okay to hurt people on purpose" is a concept I explain to the kids I work with all the time.  Sometimes accidents happen, but basically speaking it's not okay to, for example, bodyslam your brother and slap him in the head because you want the ball he's playing with.  But the kids I work with are 3, 4, and 5 years old.  Adults should have grasped the concept.  (even "frustrated" or "emotional" adults.)

 

To a certain degree (because accidents happen, and refs are human) you have to take things on a case by case basis, but people in charge need to also say "no, you can't do X, X will result in punishment/suspension/ejection" else you just end up with people who think they can get away with X, Y, and Z.  (I am sure pretty much everyone here who has ever worked retail can tell a story about a person who thought they could do X, Y, or Z because they'd "done it before".) 

 

I cannot say for certain (as above, almost none of MA's adult leagues are USAH sanctioned) how much effort USAH actually puts into the adult recreational end of hockey- training officials or making modified adult rulebooks clear and available for perusal or giving advice on how to operate an adult league.  The impression I get is "very little effort".

[IPv6Freely 2093]

The league director in the league I used to play in sent out this email last year. I think I'm going to forward it to my current director:

Quote

Dear Captains and Players,

We have recently had some incidents involving body checks that led to significant injuries. We at the Ice-Plex have worked hard to ensure that our league is both fun and safe for its participants. While some incidental contact between players is to be expected, it is not acceptable to intentionally check or injure another player. To make this clear, I am instituting a new policy: Anyone who injures another player as a result of a penalty will be suspended for as long as the injury keeps the other person out of play. If a penalty was not assessed, the video record of the incident may be reviewed to determine if this suspension is warranted.

Thank you for your understanding and continued support of our league.

 

[Chadd 916]

11 hours ago, chippa13 said:

Refs with an itchy trigger finger are just as bad for a league as refs who swallow their whistles. Both create frustration in players which can lead to very problematic situations.

Nobody ever had to go to the hospital because a ref called a game too tight. Calling any penalties qualifies as too tight for a lot of guys, as well. 

[kovalchuk71 212]

40 minutes ago, Chadd said:

Nobody ever had to go to the hospital because a ref called a game too tight. Calling any penalties qualifies as too tight for a lot of guys, as well. 

At the end of the day Beer Leaguers are impossible to please. If they ask for more penalty calls, they bitch when you call them. If they want you to call the game more loosely, they bitch when you don't make the calls. 

 

It would be nice if they actually acted like the Adults they are supposed to be. 

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

17 hours ago, OptimusReim said:

The league director in the league I used to play in sent out this email last year. I think I'm going to forward it to my current director:

 

 

One of my best friends was injured recently by a 20 something who came all the way down the ice and blasted him against the boards behind the net.  Guy even left his feet on the hit.  My buddy is out for months with a separated shoulder - and he is a surgeon!!!!  The asshat who did it gets one game and the league will not even discuss it with is.  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

17 hours ago, kovalchuk71 said:

At the end of the day Beer Leaguers are impossible to please. If they ask for more penalty calls, they bitch when you call them. If they want you to call the game more loosely, they bitch when you don't make the calls. 

 

It would be nice if they actually acted like the Adults they are supposed to be. 

I don't want chinsy crap called, but anything violent should be dealt with immediately. We're not talking about hooking, holding and tripping, here. We're talking about idiots who can't control themselves and start swinging as their first reaction. 

 

I think even beer leaguers should be able to understand and accept the difference. 

[Chadd 916]

22 hours ago, kovalchuk71 said:

At the end of the day Beer Leaguers are impossible to please. If they ask for more penalty calls, they bitch when you call them. If they want you to call the game more loosely, they bitch when you don't make the calls. 

 

It would be nice if they actually acted like the Adults they are supposed to be. 

They only want the penalties called on the other team, their team should be allowed to get away with it. 

[psulion22 402]

And as we discuss this, another example of lack of regard for player safety at the same rink. 

 

I I was playing D and had the inside lane on the puck carrier. I was forcing him wide at the blue line, angling him towards the boards. When he was about out of room he tried to cut back to the middle and put the puck between my skates. So I stepped into his lane. Pretty standard defensive stand up on a 1v1. Not a check by any means. But he was 6'4" and I'm 5'9", so my hips ended up getting him at the knee/thigh. Not a knee on knee, but we both went down. The puck goes down into the corner and aswe both get up, he yells something at me that I thought was "are you ok?"  I say yes and go to get back in position, and he comes straight at me and cross checks me across the face. If I wasn't wearing a cage, it would have gone right into my teeth. So this is an intentional cross check to the face, away from the puck, in retaliation.  Right in front of the ref. 

 

The end result?  I get two minutes for tripping (which I was ok with). He gets 4 minutes for roughing (which I was not). It's an absolute embarrassment that he would be allowed to stay in a game after an act like that. An NHL player would be suspended for doing less. I want someone to tell me exactly how ejecting that player would be trigger happy or cause a problem later in the game.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

To compare that to my situation where I was also the cause of both of us going down, there is absolutely no excuse for a violent action with the intent to injure regardless of whatever prior contact there may have been. There is no reason for somebody to cross check you in the face or pummel you in the back of the head after tackling you from behind. None. 

[psulion22 402]

Yep. Very similar situation. I in no way intended to hurt anyone or even bring us down. When we were in the box, the guy said he had 4 knee surgeries and was sensitive to any contact. He said he knows I didn't mean to hit him in the knees. There is only one intent between a cross check to the face or a punch to the head, especially when that player is on the ice.   If your reaction to accidental contact to your knees is to cross check people in the face, then you should probably go play badminton. 

 

When end my captain asked about intent to injure, the ref told us that he wasn't trying to hurt me because I was wearing a cage. I almost cross checked him across the visor. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Now that's some messed up logic right there.