Attempt to injure in mens league

[Skoda10 14]

I just can't fathom how people can act like that. How do they forget that for the most part everyone playing has to get up the next day and go to work, and take the kids to school, etc? I guess some people just get too caught up in the moment, or lack self control.

In my opinion any attempt to injure in beer league should be punished by a one year suspension and a fine to be paid before you can be reinstated.

To me an attmept to injure is vastly different and more serious than two yahoos losing it and dropping the gloves.

[MorePower4me 0]

if you can afford to pursue legal action, DO IT!!!

Please don't. The last thing ANYONE needs is more stupid lawsuits.

You agree to a certain amount of inherent risk when you put the skates on. It's a rough sport. In fact, the exact same thing could have happened if you were skating next to a newer skater and he simply tripped, with no malice at all.

If you are looking for something with zero contact try fantasy hockey or ballet...

However, if you think what happened was above and beyond normal 'hockey contact' then the person who did the action is no longer playing hockey, he is assaulting you. If you believe that was the case, don't b*tch and moan to the officials, call the police. They handle those types of charges.

There were certainly enough witnesses, and if they determine what happened was wrong you get your justice. If not you suck it up and move on.

And if your thinking 'I would never do that, my teammates would think I'm a wuss' then good, that was the idea. Either actually take action, or drop it. The league (obviously) doesn't think it was a big deal.

[chippa13 1844]

Just remembered another incident from my summer league: We were slaughtering a fairly dirty team who was just brutal (not running up the score but just out playing and shooting them) when they decided they'd had enough. Clean checks were now fair game to them to start a fight or throw elbows, and the best part came when their captain skated from our zone to his blueline where our player was floating so that he could kick his feet out. Fastest he'd hustled all game, with his leg beginning to wind up at centre ice. Never seen anything like it. Ref's were oblivious to it all so that didn't help one bit.

Not for nothing but floating in a blowout is high on the not cool list. That's right up there with hanging at pick up.

[raganblink 82]

I play C1 at a rink with A (guys with junior, college, semi-pro and pro hockey experience), B1-4, C1-C6.5, D1-2 (benders), and O40 leagues.

The suspension list is online and it always seems to skew towards the upper and lower levels. Four games into the current season there are 3 suspensions in B1, 1 in C2, 7 in C4 or lower.

I've seen high-level guys playing like they think they should be in the show. The attitude is almost like they're above this. The guys in the low-level leagues play like they see on TV (minus the skills) and think dropping the gloves is a part of the game.

Any time I've played in a lower level game the hacking and stickwork has been more pronounced. This guy in your game took it to a whole other level, but I'm not surprised that this happened in a lower-level game.

C2, C4, what?

Are these divisions of skill, or just different divisions of play?

If skill, holy shit. We got 3 leagues, A/B, C & D LOL. There is too much of a parity in talent that your team needs to be stacked to compete, it isn't really fun for the guys who don't have a lot of good players. Like our A/B team is about half A half B, whereas most are 1/4A 3/4B, it makes games more fun... but, wow. If i read that correct, you guys have like 11 different divisions of skill? Impressive.

[furlanitalia 1]

Just remembered another incident from my summer league: We were slaughtering a fairly dirty team who was just brutal (not running up the score but just out playing and shooting them) when they decided they'd had enough. Clean checks were now fair game to them to start a fight or throw elbows, and the best part came when their captain skated from our zone to his blueline where our player was floating so that he could kick his feet out. Fastest he'd hustled all game, with his leg beginning to wind up at centre ice. Never seen anything like it. Ref's were oblivious to it all so that didn't help one bit.

Not for nothing but floating in a blowout is high on the not cool list. That's right up there with hanging at pick up.

Fair enough, but unless I'm mistaken there was under a minute left. Not saying there is an excuse for floating, but there was certainly no excuse for his actions.

[yrhmblnr8r 69]

I play C1 at a rink with A (guys with junior, college, semi-pro and pro hockey experience), B1-4, C1-C6.5, D1-2 (benders), and O40 leagues.

The suspension list is online and it always seems to skew towards the upper and lower levels. Four games into the current season there are 3 suspensions in B1, 1 in C2, 7 in C4 or lower.

I've seen high-level guys playing like they think they should be in the show. The attitude is almost like they're above this. The guys in the low-level leagues play like they see on TV (minus the skills) and think dropping the gloves is a part of the game.

Any time I've played in a lower level game the hacking and stickwork has been more pronounced. This guy in your game took it to a whole other level, but I'm not surprised that this happened in a lower-level game.

C2, C4, what?

Are these divisions of skill, or just different divisions of play?

If skill, holy shit. We got 3 leagues, A/B, C & D LOL. There is too much of a parity in talent that your team needs to be stacked to compete, it isn't really fun for the guys who don't have a lot of good players. Like our A/B team is about half A half B, whereas most are 1/4A 3/4B, it makes games more fun... but, wow. If i read that correct, you guys have like 11 different divisions of skill? Impressive.

A little bit of both. C1 is higher skill than C2 but they're close. C1 vs D1 is much more extreme. The league defines A, B, C, and D on the main page for free agents then your team gets moved up or down accordingly.

I just checked. A, B1, B2, B4, C1, C2, C3, C4, C5, C6, C6.5, D1, D2, O40C, O40R. That's 15 leagues total in a 3-sheet facility.

[hyprlte 0]

wow suprisingly this happened at Pavallion League, they were always stressing "clean fun hockey"

I played in that league for a summer, wasnt bad and wasnt even close to ashl dirty

Does Art still run that league?

the reason why this team moved there and i played was because i heard it was cleaner hockey than ashl and surrounding leagues. Art doesnt run the league. The guys name is Mark... i forget the last name.

im going to be there tonight and i will once again speak with him and make it very clear what will happen. Im sorry, but this worries me. Blown out of proportion or not, this situation could have been terrible...

[chippa13 1844]

Just remembered another incident from my summer league: We were slaughtering a fairly dirty team who was just brutal (not running up the score but just out playing and shooting them) when they decided they'd had enough. Clean checks were now fair game to them to start a fight or throw elbows, and the best part came when their captain skated from our zone to his blueline where our player was floating so that he could kick his feet out. Fastest he'd hustled all game, with his leg beginning to wind up at centre ice. Never seen anything like it. Ref's were oblivious to it all so that didn't help one bit.

Not for nothing but floating in a blowout is high on the not cool list. That's right up there with hanging at pick up.

Fair enough, but unless I'm mistaken there was under a minute left. Not saying there is an excuse for floating, but there was certainly no excuse for his actions.

If someone is killing my team and floating in the last minute then you can damn sure guarantee if I'm the one that catches him on the breakaway that he will be receiving a nice slash at the wrists or back of the calf. Floating period is an asshole move, doing it near the end of a blowout pretty much gets what he deserves.

[BlackIce 1]

I agree with what one poster said. The majority of refs are just there to collect their money and run. From the perspective of a guy who has only been playing in beer leagues for less than a year I really think that there needs to be consistency in the term "non-contact". I am playing in two different leagues and the term non-contact in one league means a different thing in the other league. I also find that the higher division you play in the more light contact they allow. I am surprised that the original poster said that this happened in the league run out of the Pavillion as I heard that league was supposed to be one of the safest in the GTA.

[Law Goalie 147]

Very true about non-contact in Toronto. There's kind of an unwritten rule at the U that the two 'contact' leagues (one of which is decent hockey to play in, and the other is a gong-show) are actually full-checking leagues with relatively strict calls on charging and boarding, and the non-contact leagues allow progressively more contact the higher up you go - so in Div.4, plowing through a pick or squeezing a guy off along the boards will get a call, but at Div.1 they're part of the game.

That said, every time I sub in a DTMHL game I'm stunned by the level of stickwork - which really isn't all that much in fact, but makes a major difference in tone.

[gxc999 7]

Last season I got tangled up with a player who hipchecked me into the boards (it's a non-check league) and I fell down to the ice and he was on the ice as well. As he was getting up and I was getting up our feet got tangled together and i fell back down. He apparently thought I was trying to slew foot him and he proceeded to punt me in the ribs with his skate. The refs saw this and gave him a match penalty (30 days pending board review).

The board reviewed the case and he was suspended from the league permanently and can reapply for reinstatement in 5 years after another board meeting.

Un-freaking-real.

You don't need to threaten anything other than a letter to the insurance company.

Find out who the provider, and what your league's policy number and policy rep are; draft a letter detailing the level of officiating and league-imposed discipline as it relates to your injury, as a 'concerned player', and forward the draft to the league manager asking him if there's anything he'd like to add before you send it off.

You don't need to be argumentative, just explain clearly and simply what happened, and why it concerns you. Odds are the commissioner will shit a brick, figure out how much his insurance could go up, and do what he should have: fire the ref and ban the player, because they're both enormous financial liabilities. Right now, those two guys are worth more to the league than you are: as players, you both pay the same fees, and the ref's cheap, keeps the games on time, and keeps his mouth shut. Make them worth less, you win.

I completely agree about this kind of crap not happening as frequently at higher levels. Apart from greater parity and respect for the game itself, really good hockey players know how to fuck you up bad. You don't get chippy in a strong game and escape unscathed yourself: mutually-assured destruction.

Really good advice.

if you can afford to pursue legal action, DO IT!!!

Please don't. The last thing ANYONE needs is more stupid lawsuits.

You agree to a certain amount of inherent risk when you put the skates on. It's a rough sport. In fact, the exact same thing could have happened if you were skating next to a newer skater and he simply tripped, with no malice at all.

If you are looking for something with zero contact try fantasy hockey or ballet...

However, if you think what happened was above and beyond normal 'hockey contact' then the person who did the action is no longer playing hockey, he is assaulting you. If you believe that was the case, don't b*tch and moan to the officials, call the police. They handle those types of charges.

There were certainly enough witnesses, and if they determine what happened was wrong you get your justice. If not you suck it up and move on.

And if your thinking 'I would never do that, my teammates would think I'm a wuss' then good, that was the idea. Either actually take action, or drop it. The league (obviously) doesn't think it was a big deal.

I agree entirely. I would definitely not advise taking legal action because it might entirely screw up your league, but when people go so far past the line that they completely lose sight of it, they need to be taught a lesson and if the league won't do anything then I don't blame you.

[Chadd 916]

Late to this, just got home and read the first post. I haven't read the responses yet so I apologize if anything I saw has been mentioned already.

How can a ref who witnesses this not make sure this guy is tossed from the league? G-d forbit something sever happened and i passed out or worse....

It isn't the job of the referee to suspend people, simply to report what he sees and let the proper authorities take care of the rest. A good referee never takes anything that happens on the ice personally, or goes out of the way to punish a player.

2 weeks ago i was playing in a lower end mens league game. Not to sound cocky or anything but i am much, much better than the level i was playing at.

If I had a dollar for every time a player didn't belong in a league or game and someone got hurt because of it, I would be a rich man.

[gxc999 7]

Late to this, just got home and read the first post. I haven't read the responses yet so I apologize if anything I saw has been mentioned already.

How can a ref who witnesses this not make sure this guy is tossed from the league? G-d forbit something sever happened and i passed out or worse....

It isn't the job of the referee to suspend people, simply to report what he sees and let the proper authorities take care of the rest. A good referee never takes anything that happens on the ice personally, or goes out of the way to punish a player.

2 weeks ago i was playing in a lower end mens league game. Not to sound cocky or anything but i am much, much better than the level i was playing at.

If I had a dollar for every time a player didn't belong in a league or game and someone got hurt because of it, I would be a rich man.

Seconded. When I'm playing down a level, I NEVER hit 100% max speed because it hurts my agility/control too much and it would be very easy to injure other players doing that. What grinds my gears though is when other players don't do that. Most guys have the good sense but a few don't and they eventually become marked men.

[IniNew 53]

Late to this, just got home and read the first post. I haven't read the responses yet so I apologize if anything I saw has been mentioned already.

How can a ref who witnesses this not make sure this guy is tossed from the league? G-d forbit something sever happened and i passed out or worse....

It isn't the job of the referee to suspend people, simply to report what he sees and let the proper authorities take care of the rest. A good referee never takes anything that happens on the ice personally, or goes out of the way to punish a player.

2 weeks ago i was playing in a lower end mens league game. Not to sound cocky or anything but i am much, much better than the level i was playing at.

If I had a dollar for every time a player didn't belong in a league or game and someone got hurt because of it, I would be a rich man.

Seconded. When I'm playing down a level, I NEVER hit 100% max speed because it hurts my agility/control too much and it would be very easy to injure other players doing that. What grinds my gears though is when other players don't do that. Most guys have the good sense but a few don't and they eventually become marked men.

I think you missed his point. When players play down it's not their speed, or agility that gets people hurt. It's other people getting pissed off at a player that's too good for a league playing in it.

[Machinehead2k5 32]

I think you missed his point. When players play down it's not their speed, or agility that gets people hurt. It's other people getting pissed off at a player that's too good for a league playing in it.

Yep, you got that right. There was a game this past summer where a AAA guy plays in a CC division (2nd lowest div) and wondered why ppl were taking runs at him. He wasn't holding back either, which is another reason why some guys were taking runs at him.

[ddbowdoin 0]

this is something that really bothers me... I play in a saturday night league with a pretty mixed bag of players. MOST are great dudes, real fun to play with. Ive always been a player who plays with grit and intensity and I can get pretty chippy but all legal (to a degree) and I NEVER play hard on someone below my skill level. Seems that every weekend people forget how to play hockey. Yes, this is a non contact league but that doesnt mean that because you make a move I'm just going to let you skate around me. Attached is a small drawing of what pisses me off. I'm not going to let someone cross my line because they make a small move, Im taking the body and rubbing you out against the boards or you're likely hitting the ice. Make the pass or go WIDE, don't try to slide a puck through my skates and expect for me to hand you a cookie and a free pass.

Am I wrong here?

you have two situations...

one - two players converge at a neutral point = a hit

two - one player trying to be gretsky by crossing my line... if I bump you that is not a hit, it's called hockey

[eric42434224 1]

I play in a no check league, and you can play the body on defense. You can stay between him and the goal, and there will be no problem. If he tries to slide the puck between your legs, you can move and stay in front of him and take the body and let your D partner of goalie pick up the puck. No problem there.

If you "hit" the player, impede his path for longer than a second or two, or put him to the ice, that will be a problem and will be called all day long.

If you play in a no check league, you should try to get rid of that "hit" and "bump" mentality. You can play great defense without either. All you need to do it take him wide, or hold him up for one second if he tries to dipsy doodle you.

[HattrickSwayze 3]

Dbow, it probably depends on the players you're playing against. There are typically two different types in games; the guy who doesn't mind some physical play, and the guy who freaks the fuck out if you even brush against him. I personally don't mind playing physical, as long as it's clean. I'm not the kind to hack someone on the laces for rubbing me into the boards. It's no-check, not no-contact, some things are just part of the game. I find the more experienced guys are more likely to have played "real" hockey at some point, and know the difference between a bump and a check. It's the guys who think because it's no-check they should be given 3 feet of space at all times that tend to be the problem.

[MorePower4me 0]

I think it depends on the league, and hopefully they have some hard rules about what contact is, and what its not.

There are some local (non-Sr) leagues I'd want my 60+ dad playing in (he played a LOT and is a very good player) but he's not looking for a very physical game. He wants to enjoy playing a game he loves without risk of injury. In that type of league, you cover as well as you can without contact. If you can't manage to get a puck from a guy without hitting him... practice more.

And then there are leagues for people like me who wouldn't mind it being full contact, and I'd welcome any and all efforts you can make to get a puck past me.

I think until you've been playing in that league long enough to know which is which, error on the side on NO contact. That is why its called a no contact league after all. They weren't just being clever.

If you think there's too much ambiguity, especially from team to team, have the officials of directors make a statement on it. I think a lot of the swings from side to side are from people just not understanding.

So many guys are just out there for good exercise and to do something they love. They don't need to get beat-up doing it to have a good time, there's no scouts in the stands. Similarly, many don't really care about the score at the end of the game. Sure they'd rather win, but it's more about the journey than the destination.

[Chadd 916]

Am I wrong here?

For the most part, yes.

In a no checking league, you are wrong if you go out of your way to make extra contact on the guy with the puck. Especially if there is an impact involved, between the two of you or between him and the boards.

[furlanitalia 1]

Just remembered another incident from my summer league: We were slaughtering a fairly dirty team who was just brutal (not running up the score but just out playing and shooting them) when they decided they'd had enough. Clean checks were now fair game to them to start a fight or throw elbows, and the best part came when their captain skated from our zone to his blueline where our player was floating so that he could kick his feet out. Fastest he'd hustled all game, with his leg beginning to wind up at centre ice. Never seen anything like it. Ref's were oblivious to it all so that didn't help one bit.

Not for nothing but floating in a blowout is high on the not cool list. That's right up there with hanging at pick up.

Fair enough, but unless I'm mistaken there was under a minute left. Not saying there is an excuse for floating, but there was certainly no excuse for his actions.

If someone is killing my team and floating in the last minute then you can damn sure guarantee if I'm the one that catches him on the breakaway that he will be receiving a nice slash at the wrists or back of the calf. Floating period is an asshole move, doing it near the end of a blowout pretty much gets what he deserves.

Sorry, I should probably clarify that play was still going on in our defensive end. He never had the puck, and there was certainly no indication of it coming to him. The other guy was just looking to injure. Not to mention a stick to the back of legs stings, going for the wrists might be a little much, but kicking someones feet out is on a whole different level.

[ddbowdoin 0]

Am I wrong here?

For the most part, yes.

In a no checking league, you are wrong if you go out of your way to make extra contact on the guy with the puck. Especially if there is an impact involved, between the two of you or between him and the boards.

1.) Basically this guy was a very solid skater... may have been the best on the ice at the time. His strategy was to skate right at you, slide the puck and make no effort to go around you. He wanted to use his physical presense to throw you out of the way essentially.

Also, this is by no means an organized league... we have no teams and we certainly don't have officials. Maybe I'm just dirty

[stock07 1]

I've found that no matter how high or low the league is, or how good or bad the players are, if you go out there and just have fun, keep your mouth shut you usually dont have to deal with this stuff....To often you get guys that are really good playing aganist bad players in a lower league and try TO HARD to not try hard, if that makes sense?...The good players try to make it overly obvious that they are passing to someone when of course they could have just easily scored....Honestly, by staying off the ice as much as possiable and letting everyone else get an extra shift or 2 especially if your just filling in and are that much better, makes a world of diffrence....But Im sure the excuse is, they need you on the ice the whole time so they can win this meaninless game....GOSH... if I could just go back to 1985 we would have won states....silly kids

[jjleip11 0]

I've played in "no checking" leagues for the last seven years, and the interpretation of the "no checking" clause differs greatly depending on where you are playing. My current league allows some mild contact, but no full-on checking. You can stand somebody up on D without getting called by the stripes. My team went to Toronto last year for a tourney in a no checking league - holy &$%*, their version of "no-checking" was our version of full-checking. An eye opener, for sure. Really it's all up to interpretation by the refs.

That being said, we had a game last night in which one of our guys rubbed out one of the other team's guys, and rightly got penalized for it. It wasn't anything vicious or maliciious. After the whistle one of their guys just downright runs him from about quarter ice...only got a two minute penalty. Obvious intent to injure, should've been kicked out and suspended. But, not according to the refs.

[shotty 7]

Am I wrong here?

For the most part, yes.

In a no checking league, you are wrong if you go out of your way to make extra contact on the guy with the puck. Especially if there is an impact involved, between the two of you or between him and the boards.

1.) Basically this guy was a very solid skater... may have been the best on the ice at the time. His strategy was to skate right at you, slide the puck and make no effort to go around you. He wanted to use his physical presense to throw you out of the way essentially.

Also, this is by no means an organized league... we have no teams and we certainly don't have officials. Maybe I'm just dirty

this isn't basketball... its not your duty to get out of the way. if someone's coming directly at me, im digging in and preparing to be the guy getting to the puck first if he decides to go "through me". it's happened a few times in my league and the refs usually see it and let it go... so long as its not an obvious attempt at physicality by the defender.