Ringers...

[nexusrage21 1]

(I know there was a topic about this not too long ago, but I couldn't find the one I was looking for....)

So my team starts playoffs from our winter season tonight. I was bored and since we never played this team I decided to check out their roster and stats. I notice they have more players than most of the other teams in this league, which is odd since most teams try to keep their rosters small since you pay as individuals not as a team (So everyone gets their money's worth of playing time.). Upon further inspection I notice that 3 of their players have only played 1 game, the last game of the regular season.

Two of those players scored 5 points each in their last game, which leads me to believe these are ringers brought into the playoffs. One of those two also plays for two other teams in higher divisions and scores at a pretty good clip in those divisions. The other two guys who only played one game, don't play on any other teams and haven't in the time the league has used the current stat tracking system.

So basically, they brought in a few ringers for the playoffs, and this is basically a trend where my team is playing. Teams will dominate playoff games against teams who crushed them all year on a pretty regular basis. Obviously there are other factors which can be at play here, but it happens pretty often. Usually it is someone wearing another players jersey, being a frequent reader here I'm pretty good at recognizing people because of their gear/style, but this is a different story because if they have been put into computer system for the team it means the league has allowed it to happen.

I don't really know what to do in this situation. I know in the past the league has not allowed players added after a certain date because they wouldn't let me be added to a friends team after they lost two players, and this was a few games earlier in the season last year.

I guess I'm mostly just venting here, because its a men's league game, but I appreciate fairness. Our league has done a pretty good job over the last couple years in regards to teams playing in the right divisions for their skill level, it pretty much used to be the wild west where teams which could compete in top or second divisions would play much lower to dominate. However allowing people to join just for the playoffs is really unfair. If they would just take care of that, and do legit roster checks before games, I would be real happy.

Is there anything that I can do about this? Or at least anything that I should try to do?

[sickwilly 37]

Our league makes guys play a minimum of 6 regular season games to qualify for playoffs. Also no "signed" players from the Senior or Junior teams across in Canada are allowed to play in the league if they have a "player card" for that season.

For the most part it has worked out pretty well, although it has excluded a guy who was a really good guy and a great player from playing in the league last year. I think that the 6 game rule is pretty fair. They do roster checks.

[furlanitalia 1]

There is a minimum for the leagues out here as well (just not sure what it is). Perhaps you can talk to whoever runs it about imposing such a rule? I agree that it isn't fair.

[Chadd 916]

Our league does not permit players to play below their registered division and you must play a minimum number of games to qualify for the playoffs. They still allow guys to drop from the top division to a low division from one season to the next though. In one case, a guy averaged two points a game in the top division and the next season dropped down four levels.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Thats retarded. How in the hell can that be fun? I mean, if the dudes buddies all play down lower and he wants to play with his friends in a league I can understand the desire to do so, but get together for pickup or something and play with your friends. How can anyone enjoy dominating competetion that is much lower level than they should be in.

[Scoobersti 0]

I've always wondered about those players too, in the league I play in we have few of those guys as well. There are some guys who plays 3 or 4 levels below where they should be playing and I just don't see that as being any fun. I think 1 level or maybe 2 is acceptable but going down to dominate 3 or 4 levels down just doesn't seem fun and it certainly takes the fun out of the other players who are trying to have fun playing a competitive game. I personally played about 2 levels down when I was coming back from about a 6 year hiatus and after I got back into the groove it wasn't very fun because the forwards on the other team (I play defense) just weren't skilled as the forwards that I played against back in the day and it was too easy stopping them or taking the puck away from them.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Exactly. If I'm at pickup or whatever and theres a bunch of players that are less skilled I'll slow my game down some too. Its not very fun in the defensive sense, but it is fun to set the other players up for success with my skills. Be it a good pass to them that they can handle or passing up an opportunity to shoot myself to feed them for a shot. It can be fun in that sense. I'm not saying I'm the allstar or whatever but I'm sure you know what I mean. But even at that, its still not very fun to not be fully challenged on my abilities and I don't see how anyone could enjoy a whole season like that, or take any sense of pride/accomplishment in a playoff league championship thing when they have to play like that.

[Chadd 916]

My team dropped to a lower level back in the fall and if I was healthy, I wouldn't be happy playing at that level at all. Given my forced absence from the ice and the lack of skating for a number of months before that, I still fit in more than I'd like. I really focus on shutting down the ringers on the other team more than anything else. I love setting guys up but I get frustrated when nice plays end up resulting in nothing more than a shot wide of the net. I couldn't play down several levels for long, like some guys do, without going crazy.

[furlanitalia 1]

Same here. Playing at a lower level loses its luster very quickly.

[Jarick 5]

I haven't seen that too much, although I have seen some teams with a pretty huge talent disparity. Usually the league will force the players or team to move up, but it's always at the end of the season, so the teams who "fight fair" get screwed that year. And it seems every year a new team or two with a bunch of ringers shows up.

[Hawkeye 0]

I play in two leagues. Both have a minimum 5 game rule for playoffs but they have never done roster checks. I wish they would since the playoffs are a joke sometimes.

I'm playing for a friends REC team I'm a low B-high C player so I'm playing down a division. In that league you can have two "B" level players in any game but they can only score 3 goals total between them with a max of 2 per person.

[Chadd 916]

Played a game tonight and one of the guys brought along his son, who was a top level HS player last year. He went end to end three times on his first shift and then we proceeded to hook, hold and hit him the rest of the night. We took seven penalties against him, but kept him off the score sheet the rest of the game.

[nexusrage21 1]

Things went well for my team last night. One of their "new" players got thrown out of the game for yelling at the ref, and the other was trying to hard to cherry pick and get breakaways that he never was a factor.

It still sucks that these leagues can't do more to make sure everything stays on a level playing field. It really wouldn't be that tough or time consuming to have people check in when they arrive.

[technophile 0]

We actually have a separate "mixed league" from our normal divisions, where all of the teams have a specific mix of A-, B-, and C- level players. I haven't played in it due to lack of free time, but everyone who does seems to enjoy it.

In normal divisional play you cannot sub below your own level without hockey league admin approval (which very few people get) *and* approval by both captains in the game. You can sub up without issue. People do drop from one level to the next between seasons (mostly because they only went up due to being friends with a higher level captain, or else because they were such an ass that none of the captains wanted to draft them :P).

If someone gets injured or moves or whatever, they can have their games bought out, but the new player has to be roughly skill equivalent (even within the division, i.e. no replacing someone who just moved up to this division with a top scorer type).

[jaybird 0]

So basically, they brought in a few ringers for the playoffs, and this is basically a trend where my team is playing. Teams will dominate playoff games against teams who crushed them all year on a pretty regular basis.

That's weaksauce... I'm glad your team ended up doing well.

[xrickyb86x 1]

In the beer league I play in there are no subs from divisions above and rosters are completely locked after the middle of the season. The staff is friendly and tend to know most people but on occasion they will check your name off on a roster when you walk in just to make sure. It's also always noted when you sub for a team. Stats wise, any points you get while subbing are given to someone else on the team involved in the play. Kinda funny, but no one seems to mind. I got a hat trick and they gave each goal to the guy who assisted.

There is one team that has a guy who should be playing in our leagues Division 1 but for some reason they let him come down and play D3. Totally not cool. The team sucks and if they're down by a goal or two he'll just skate end to end and score until they get the lead then they'll hold it.

[shotty 7]

the league I play in is pretty well on top of this kind of thing. a team can bring in any player they wish as a regular player or sub, but any given player needs 8 games to qualify for the playoffs. they can also only play a max of two diva apart. so if he's a regular in div 4 the lowest he can go is 6, and the highest he can go is 2. the league manager doesn't mind if teams bring in big talent, but he reserves the right to adjust the divisions based on a single players ability to affect outcome so a team has to be sure their ringer is sticking around! also, if he plays more than 3 games for another team in another div, neither team can move into each others division. for example: his full time team is in div 2 and subs for a div 3 team. the div 3 team is doing well with his help but his div 2 team is losing all the time and being outclassed. after he logs three games with his div 3 team, his div 2 team is stuck there. or say he is subbing on a div 4 team while playing full time in div 2. he's totally ripping it up, the team can be moved into div 3 just because of his production, then get worked in div 3.

the league's refs do roster checks before the game, discreetly. they don't run ID or anything, it's more about ensuring that the teams aren't putting absent players on the game sheet to get them to the 8 game minimum. in the playoffs, every player need to bring ID to the bench and only players with 8 games can be activated the game sheet. refs do a minimum of two random checks at the beginning of the game. ringer/unqualified = forfeit.

alternately, in the team's league i sub in, there's pretty much no rules and it's ridiculous. many teams have players that play on multiple teams IN THE SAME DIVISION! in tge playoffs, the player can keep playing for both teams unless/until they meet, then he's required to play for the team with which he's logged the most games.

[raganblink 82]

Every summer our leagues basically go down one level, as A league joins with B, so all the B goes to C, and the bad C go to D. We're in C this summer and basically are a B team, with more B/A people than C/D people. We're going to have a lot of fun, because we're all buddies and don't really care about winning. Also we don't have a goalie, so we're just going to switch off and have a bunch of guys who haven't' played goalie since like squirt in net. Should be awesome :D

Btw, every other team is half B league as well, so we're not doing too much harm adding some A league with us... we're just there to have fun, if we win we win if we lose we lose.

[hamstercaster 2]

My friend plays in beer leagues and has played in different ones over the past couple of years. One of the leagues works with points. So, at the beginning of the year a committee evaluates the players and gives them points. Teams are allowed 9 points. A superstar is usually worth 4. Although the basis is good, it is also flawed because the evaluators either own a team or play on one so the evaluations are not always accurate and some teams with no representative on the evaluation committee always end up getting screwed.

This season he played on a team in Division one. The two leading scorers were from the same team.

Number one had a 104 points in 27 games. 61 of the points were goals.

Number two had 83 points in 20 games. 45 of which were goals

Maybe they should look for other beer leagues where the caliber is higher. Seems a bit too easy for them at that level me thinks.

They also have a minimum numbers of games that needs to be played to be able to play in the playoffs.

[Andoy 5]

the league I play in is pretty well on top of this kind of thing. a team can bring in any player they wish as a regular player or sub, but any given player needs 8 games to qualify for the playoffs. they can also only play a max of two diva apart. so if he's a regular in div 4 the lowest he can go is 6, and the highest he can go is 2. the league manager doesn't mind if teams bring in big talent, but he reserves the right to adjust the divisions based on a single players ability to affect outcome so a team has to be sure their ringer is sticking around! also, if he plays more than 3 games for another team in another div, neither team can move into each others division. for example: his full time team is in div 2 and subs for a div 3 team. the div 3 team is doing well with his help but his div 2 team is losing all the time and being outclassed. after he logs three games with his div 3 team, his div 2 team is stuck there. or say he is subbing on a div 4 team while playing full time in div 2. he's totally ripping it up, the team can be moved into div 3 just because of his production, then get worked in div 3.

the league's refs do roster checks before the game, discreetly. they don't run ID or anything, it's more about ensuring that the teams aren't putting absent players on the game sheet to get them to the 8 game minimum. in the playoffs, every player need to bring ID to the bench and only players with 8 games can be activated the game sheet. refs do a minimum of two random checks at the beginning of the game. ringer/unqualified = forfeit.

alternately, in the team's league i sub in, there's pretty much no rules and it's ridiculous. many teams have players that play on multiple teams IN THE SAME DIVISION! in tge playoffs, the player can keep playing for both teams unless/until they meet, then he's required to play for the team with which he's logged the most games.

Former = ASHL

Latter = Ice604 right?

If it's the latter, a few weeks back we played this team. I looked at their roster before our series against them and they had more than 20 guys. No positions listed (including goalie). Our series was best of 3 and we took it to the stretch. Each game we played them their lineup was completely different. Good thing we still won.

[TBLfan 25]

I was almost on the other side of this this past weekend. I was asked to sub for a team I've never played on but I know a guy on the team. Turns out that it's at minimal 2 leagues down from my level... they were missing some lesser skilled guys than my buddy and I(whom we were subbing for), this team beat the same team we were going to be playing by 20 goals earlier this season. Why the hell would I want to play in that game? I come to find out that they were expecting us to win by at least 25 goals... Seriously? WTF? Why would I want to play in that game?

[shotty 7]

Former = ASHL

Latter = Ice604 right?

If it's the latter, a few weeks back we played this team. I looked at their roster before our series against them and they had more than 20 guys. No positions listed (including goalie). Our series was best of 3 and we took it to the stretch. Each game we played them their lineup was completely different. Good thing we still won.

UBC and Coast

as much as the refs bother me sometimes with their lackadaisical approach to calling the games, I do appreciate that there's only a small handful of them, as they get to know us well and can spot new faces.

it doesn't bother me if another team brings in a ringer, I just lose respect for them and make a point of shutting the ringer down as much as I can. I get more gratification beating cheaters on the scoreboard rather than on a technicality.

[Andoy 5]

Oh yeah I heard alot of bad things about that league (Coast)

[shotty 7]

yeah today is the last game of the regular season, and after that I'm

done with that league. expensive, too.

there's a new leave starting up called Stealth Hockey League, playing out of the Richmond Olympic Oval, I'm hoping to get a spares spot on someones roster there so I can check it out. looks like it has potential

[tareatingrat 4]

I play in the ASHL, and for the most part, they do a pretty good job of keeping ringers out of the lower divisions.

During the regular season, unfortunately, anybody can play for any team, although the league manager will probably have a talk with an A division player lighting it up in E.

But, you need to play 33% of your team's regular season games to qualify for playoffs, and then you can only play one division down from your skill level (we've got A, B, C, D, and E).

So if you have a 34 game schedule, you have to play 12 games, which is pretty good in my opinion. Also, if you play in B, you can only drop down to C. So if you have ringers throughout the regular season, you might get a favourable spot in the standings, but then might lose your best scorers when it counts.

The divisions are re-organized probably three times a year (after 8 games, 16, and 24, roughly) to try and create parity. There are different groupings in each division (E1, Group A and Group B, etc). For example, our team was beating everyone quite badly in the bottom division, then we got moved up and lost 9 straight, so they moved us back down. It's not perfect, but way better than some of the league structures I've seen.

My biggest problem is that it requires most people to be honest when registering, as there is a question regarding the highest level of hockey you've played. There are some people in the E division where I play that should not be there at all.

I, too, wonder what a higher caliber player gets from playing in a lower division. I mean, I've only been playing for two years and I'm at the point where I want to move up a division because it's not as challenging as I would like. It's nice to score goals and all, but when you score off of what you know was a bad play or a bad shot, it's kind of hard to cheer when you didn't have to work for it.