Skate advice - taking a step up...

[Gomer 1]

There's a lot of back-story here:

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...showtopic=45846

Cliff Notes version is that I've been playing hockey for a year now. When I first bought skates, it was as a trial more or less. I had not skated too much before. I was "fitted" at a local store and if I recall correctly, I bought the first and only thing I tried on; Mission Fuel 75's. Not having skated that much before, I didn't know how they were supposed to "feel" really.

After a year in them, I am starting to think they are a touch large and I don't know if they have worn in a bit or if I am just noticing it, but my heels are lifting to the point it is starting to frustrate me when I skate. More so on one foot than the other, but both lift. If I lace the life out of them, it helps a bit, but doesn't solve the problem, and kills my feet. I've never had problems with blisters in them.

So I am looking to solve this problem. I've tried on a variety of skates, and one thing I've learned I think, is that I have wider than normal forefeet (but not circus clown), and narrow heels. Triangular feet. The Missions I have are 8's and my foot measures at an 8 for shoes. I usually wear a 9 though in most shoes on account of the wide forefoot. That bump in size gives me the comfort that would come in a wider shoe I guess. The Missions were tight in the forefoot when I bought them but loosened with baking and skating. My toes never touched the front of those skates.

I tried on Vapors in a 6.5 and really wanted to make them work, but sitting down, I could flex my foot and feel my heel lift. Now it was nowhere near as bad as the Missions, but noticeable. My understanding now, is that it shouldn't move at all. I was trying the x:40 and at $300+, I don't want to get this experiment wrong. The 6.5 in the Bauer was also pretty tight in the forefoot which steered me away from them as well.

I tried on Reeboks (8K?), and even with the pump, I could still pull my heel up.

It wasn't until I tried on Eastons (S12) that I finally felt what a snug heel should feel like I think. They wouldn't move. It felt as if my whole ankle was locked down snug preventing my foot from flexing upward and pulling my heel up. So I think that that's the route I am going.

The one issue with the S12s was I could only try on a 6.5 and my toes were hitting the front pretty good. Having skated for a year in skates where my toes never touched the front, I'm not sure what "feathering/brushing" the toe cap feels like. Now my toes weren't uncomfortable smashed, but they were definitely touching and I could see how that might not be pleasant after an hour on the ice. My feet measured out at just over 6.5 on Eastons scale and right now I am waiting to try on a 7.

I've been talking to a few guys to try to get this right and I am just looking for additional input. $300 isn't a lot, but at the same time it is... if that makes sense. With the Missions, they were the first pair and a bargain, so if I got it wrong, no big deal. But to me, this whole business of buying skates is tough stuff. You don't know what you're getting until you've shelled out the $$ to try it. When I read these threads where new guys are asking about x:60s and the like, it makes me really scratch my head. So when I think about what I'm about to do ($300 skates), I feel the same itch questioning what I am doing.

So what do you think about the skates and sizing? I'm mainly curious about my toes and what is normal. If they are pressing the cap pretty snugly, but not uncomfortable (in the store), is that too tight?

I know I need new skates because the Missions have problems, but are S12s overkill?

And I've read a bit about "stiffness" here. Are S12s going to be too stiff? Or is that something that happens in the higher end boots? Should I worry about that?

Any other suggestions/input?

Additional info: I'm 5'8", 145 liken myself to be a quick, aggressive forward.

THANKS!

[gxc999 7]

It sounds like you had some sizing problems, so I'll try to go in order. 

1) You probably know the general rule is to go down 1.5 sizes from your normal shoe size, but for people with wide feet, this rule can go out the window. I often wear a 10 street shoe because I need room for my wide feet, but a 7.5EE is the right skate size for me.

2) An s12 may or may not be too stiff for you, it depends how good of a skater you are, not just how big or strong you are. However at your size, I think you should tend to avoid the top of the line skate. It'd simply be a waste of money for you.

3) Some skates will fit better in the heel/ankle area after you bake them. Higher end skates are more heat moldable than lower end skates.

4) There are a lot of good skates around $300, you have many options at that range, including some closeouts from last year. 

[raganblink 82]

When I saw this: "I've tried on a variety of skates, and one thing I've learned I think, is that I have wider than normal forefeet (but not circus clown), and narrow heels. Triangular feet."

I thought this: Wow this guy needs stealths, probably wides.

Looks like that is the skate you are going with and its definitely the right call with that type of foot. As with the sizing (length), how snugly are we talking about? The should be slightly grazing the front if they are even touching at all, however, that doesn't mean you need to get a 7. Ideally what we do is the pencil test and if we can put that pencil behind your foot while it is all the way forward, then its right. If we can't, then your going to need to go up to a 7. But I'd wait until the 7 came in, walk around in them for 5-10 minutes tied up (6.5 on one 7 on the other, and assuming this is cool with the store) and then this should be the ultimate decision for which one is more comfortable. Honestly from what you've said the 6.5 in no way sounds too small for you, and going up .5 cm isn't going to hurt either. Just go by what is more comfortable for you when wearing both pairs.

And overkill? No, there's no such thing :P Don't drop down to the S9s, there aren't as comfortable and there have been some durability issues with that specific model. The HS kids who got them had them shredded after 3 months of their season, everyone else who only skates 1-2 times a week had no issues what so ever. I just think they can't take a skate blade myself.

And with stiffness? Stiffness is a good thing, however, these aren't nearly as stiff as almost a consensus stiffest skate on the market (the one95/one100/TO). Stiffness on these is probably closest to the new one70, somewhere in between the one55 and one75. Stiffness also comes with a higher end skate, however each model and brand have their own stiffness variances between price points. Its a really good skate though. You wont regret getting this pair.

[Gomer 1]

It sounds like you had some sizing problems, so I'll try to go in order.

1) You probably know the general rule is to go down 1.5 sizes from your normal shoe size, but for people with wide feet, this rule can go out the window. I often wear a 10 street shoe because I need room for my wide feet, but a 7.5EE is the right skate size for me.

2) An s12 may or may not be too stiff for you, it depends how good of a skater you are, not just how big or strong you are. However at your size, I think you should tend to avoid the top of the line skate. It'd simply be a waste of money for you.

3) Some skates will fit better in the heel/ankle area after you bake them. Higher end skates are more heat moldable than lower end skates.

4) There are a lot of good skates around $300, you have many options at that range, including some closeouts from last year.

Regarding #2 and #4... You suggest I avoid a top of the line skate, but then you suggest that there are lots of good skates around $300. Is $300 skates (S12s) considered "top of the line"?

That's my concern. How much skate is too much skate? I'm not drowning in $$, but I have the money for the skates... on the same note I didn't get it by pissing it away. If there is a tangible benefit that I would notice over the S9s for instance, then it is worth it. I know that is a tough call for people to make... but I feel like it is even tougher for me because of my limited experience.

As far as how good of a skater I am goes... Straight ahead, I can beat almost anyone in the league I am in to the puck. I skate hard. Crossing over, lateral skating, fine control maneuvering is where I am a poor skater. That's in a pair of Mission fuel 75's that don't fit quite right.

On one hand, I feel like buying the lesser pair of Stealths (S9, S5) and skate in them for however long to make sure I like the fit (though save for length, the S12s felt good in the store). I the other hand, I feel like if I am going to buy skates, and the S12s would be a noticeably better skate... then I ought to buy skates!

When I saw this: "I've tried on a variety of skates, and one thing I've learned I think, is that I have wider than normal forefeet (but not circus clown), and narrow heels. Triangular feet."

I thought this: Wow this guy needs stealths, probably wides.

Looks like that is the skate you are going with and its definitely the right call with that type of foot. As with the sizing (length), how snugly are we talking about? The should be slightly grazing the front if they are even touching at all, however, that doesn't mean you need to get a 7. Ideally what we do is the pencil test and if we can put that pencil behind your foot while it is all the way forward, then its right. If we can't, then your going to need to go up to a 7. But I'd wait until the 7 came in, walk around in them for 5-10 minutes tied up (6.5 on one 7 on the other, and assuming this is cool with the store) and then this should be the ultimate decision for which one is more comfortable. Honestly from what you've said the 6.5 in no way sounds too small for you, and going up .5 cm isn't going to hurt either. Just go by what is more comfortable for you when wearing both pairs.

And overkill? No, there's no such thing :P Don't drop down to the S9s, there aren't as comfortable and there have been some durability issues with that specific model. The HS kids who got them had them shredded after 3 months of their season, everyone else who only skates 1-2 times a week had no issues what so ever. I just think they can't take a skate blade myself.

And with stiffness? Stiffness is a good thing, however, these aren't nearly as stiff as almost a consensus stiffest skate on the market (the one95/one100/TO). Stiffness on these is probably closest to the new one70, somewhere in between the one55 and one75. Stiffness also comes with a higher end skate, however each model and brand have their own stiffness variances between price points. Its a really good skate though. You wont regret getting this pair.

RE: sizing... grazing? No. Pressed? Yes. Crammed in there? No. I will try the 7's here soon. Will my heel drop back a bit when I bake them freeing up my toes a bit?

As far as everything else (durability, comfort)... That's what I wanted to hear =) I ought to just put the 3 bills in my pocket and get it over with!

[jimmy 194]

Wait and try the S-12's, size 7. I think that may be what you need. I'm going to say the 6.5's are definitely not right. With a 8 shoe, the 7 Easton should be good. The S-12 is a very nice skate, it's a lot of skate for the short money. They've been very popular with our customers and it's a great value as well. Almost all the features of the high end Easton skates but won't kill the bank.

[SolarWind 23]

And with stiffness? Stiffness is a good thing, however, these aren't nearly as stiff as almost a consensus stiffest skate on the market (the one95/one100/TO). Stiffness on these is probably closest to the new one70, somewhere in between the one55 and one75. Stiffness also comes with a higher end skate, however each model and brand have their own stiffness variances between price points. Its a really good skate though. You wont regret getting this pair.

+1

being in transition from One95 that I spent the last ~2 years in to TOs I momentarily went back to my old S15 and boy they felt awefully soft! Comparing with One95 they simply felt flimsy :)

[gxc999 7]

The s12 is upper middle, not top of the liner. It will only be moderately stiff, more than enough for a smaller or intermediate player though. My skinny fat ass has to use top of the line skates because I simply do everything hard.

[Chadd 916]

When the 7s come in, slide your foot as far forward as you can before lacing them up and see how much room you have behind your heel. The gap should be less than the width of a #2 pencil. As the skates break in, you will gain a bit of length, no matter what size you buy.

$300 is a good price point, you get some decent features but it's a lot more affordable for most people than a top of the line boot.

[gxc999 7]

When the 7s come in, slide your foot as far forward as you can before lacing them up and see how much room you have behind your heel. The gap should be less than the width of a #2 pencil. As the skates break in, you will gain a bit of length, no matter what size you buy.

$300 is a good price point, you get some decent features but it's a lot more affordable for most people than a top of the line boot.

Not bad advice... I personally use that with a thin marker, e.g. sharpie, instead of a pencil, and it works out well for me.

[x-track 8]

my s17's ..which are basically s12's with better/ more carbon ....turned out to be too big after baking and a 30 minute practice session ....so I went down to the next smaller size ...bumped the tip in those before being baked ..but after one mild baking and one practice they were perfect ..and still are !!

so my advise ...being new they have to be really tight !!

..and don't take the S 9 ...fits different and waaay more uncomfortable than S12 / 17

[Larry54 243]

Are you in the U.S.A. or in Canada? A $300 skate is much different in the U.S. than in Canada. Wide forefoot and narrow heel, you should try on some Bauer Flexlites.

[Gomer 1]

When the 7s come in, slide your foot as far forward as you can before lacing them up and see how much room you have behind your heel. The gap should be less than the width of a #2 pencil. As the skates break in, you will gain a bit of length, no matter what size you buy.

$300 is a good price point, you get some decent features but it's a lot more affordable for most people than a top of the line boot.

I pulled the trigger.

Went with the 7s. I really think I could have gone either way. My toes just brush the tips when laced and standing. The #2 pencil just fit behind my heel. Had them baked and sharpened and put 90 easy minutes in them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo I think the jury will be out depending on how (and if the ever) break in as far as length goes. Right now, they feel pretty good. There's a quite a bit of foam in the ankle area though that is probably going to yield over time.

I laced them a little looser than usual mainly in the toes and above the break to the top of the skate. In the toes, they just felt like they didn't need cranked down. In the top of the heel, there was something putting pressure on that nub on the inside of your heel when I cranked them down. I think it is the edge of the tongue biting right there. I am thinking that that is something that will correct it self as things break in.

After 90 minutes, I had a little discomfort, but nothing too painful. Mainly the inside of one heel like I described where that skate was a little tighter than the other, and a small "hot spot" above the arch on the inside of each foot. A little numbness as well.

Compared to what I was skating in, these things are pretty damn stiff. When breaking them in should I be tightening the laces tighter than normal, looser than normal, or normal? When I had them baked, I was instructed to lace them normally, but I've also heard that you are supposed to tie the laces as tight as humanly possible.

All told, I think I'm in business. Part of me feels silly for having skates that nice... the other part of me really liked how light they are =)

Thanks for all of your help and advice everyone.

[Jarick 5]

Don't feel too bad at all. I'm a pretty low level player and I'm in top of the line skates right now. I certainly don't do them justice! IMO the sweet spot of quality is the $250-300 range...usually those are the skates that have most of the features of the high end models but at half the price.

When I was first breaking the skates in, I kept them a little loose, especially in warmups. After you get warmed up and some blood pumping, your feet will flatten out and get a bit bigger, so I typically tighten right before the game starts.

The nice thing about high quality skates like that is after several skates if they're still not quite right, you can usually bake them again or have them punched. But they should keep feeling better and better.

[ktang 34]

I pulled the trigger.

Went with the 7s. I really think I could have gone either way. My toes just brush the tips when laced and standing. The #2 pencil just fit behind my heel. Had them baked and sharpened and put 90 easy minutes in them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo I think the jury will be out depending on how (and if the ever) break in as far as length goes. Right now, they feel pretty good. There's a quite a bit of foam in the ankle area though that is probably going to yield over time.

I laced them a little looser than usual mainly in the toes and above the break to the top of the skate. In the toes, they just felt like they didn't need cranked down. In the top of the heel, there was something putting pressure on that nub on the inside of your heel when I cranked them down. I think it is the edge of the tongue biting right there. I am thinking that that is something that will correct it self as things break in.

After 90 minutes, I had a little discomfort, but nothing too painful. Mainly the inside of one heel like I described where that skate was a little tighter than the other, and a small "hot spot" above the arch on the inside of each foot. A little numbness as well.

Compared to what I was skating in, these things are pretty damn stiff. When breaking them in should I be tightening the laces tighter than normal, looser than normal, or normal? When I had them baked, I was instructed to lace them normally, but I've also heard that you are supposed to tie the laces as tight as humanly possible.

All told, I think I'm in business. Part of me feels silly for having skates that nice... the other part of me really liked how light they are =)

Thanks for all of your help and advice everyone.

About the lacing: with a stiffer skate you may need to have the laces more tight at the instep, and slightly looser towards the top. That way you will still have your heels locked in while having ankle mobility for agility.

This might help with the pressure point an your inside ankle knob, too.

Have fun with your super-duper skates!