Winnipeg Jets return

[ndlancer95 0]

I have to be a homer here, but Hartford, with the hockeyfest, really showed that there is enough support for an NHL franchise here. If 30,000 fans were willing to pay $60 to watch hockey outdoors in -5 degree weather for 12 hours, i believe that it is safe to say that we can support an NHL franchise. Bring the yotes to hartford

[hamstercaster 2]

I have to be a homer here, but Hartford, with the hockeyfest, really showed that there is enough support for an NHL franchise here. If 30,000 fans were willing to pay $60 to watch hockey outdoors in -5 degree weather for 12 hours, i believe that it is safe to say that we can support an NHL franchise. Bring the yotes to hartford

It's a special event and people are all up for special events. It doesn't mean that they would be willing to support an NHL franchise for 41 home games at $60 a ticket.

[CannonBall 0]

Nope, just get annoyed with people not really looking at the big picture. If a team moves back to Winnipeg, it will be there less than a decade.

Exactly, if they couldn't sustain a team before then what has changed? I don't see the point.

[Buzz_LightBeer 969]

Put it in Milwaukee

They would have to build a new arena. Not happening anytime soon, thanks Mr. Wirtz

[goblue9280 33]

I wish Houston was a viable city for the NHL for my own selfish reasons. The Toyota Center is a beautiful venue and already functions great for Aero's game... and there are a lot of Canadians here working in the oil industry... not to mention Houston being the 4th largest city in the country (5th largest metro area)... but I think they'd be in the same boat as Atlanta/Phoenix/Florida in terms of fan support.

[Hermans 9]

I agree with you on that. It's a 15 000 seat arena. How in the hell do they think that the NHL would be viable in such a small rink? ...... The only thing that could make it work is that Pier-Karl Peladeau, the potential owner of an NHL team possesses a cable distribution company (Videotron) in the Province of Quebec and was recently attributed a licence to launch a Sports only Channel. Now, the channel hasn't launched yet but one can think that he would either add the new channel to a package and charge a few bucks for the package for those willing to pay to watch the Nordiques and whichever other sport programs that would make it to the grid. Or, he could simply hike every cable subscribers Bill by a couple of bucks a month which would potentially bring in a couple of millions a month so about 24 millions a year.

15,000 full seats would be better than a lit of other teams are doing right now. On the second comment wouldn't they have to Get CRTC approval for adding channels and doing rate hikes if it wasn't done as a voluntary package to subscribers?

[hockeyherb 1]

First, the league isn't going to relocate a team somewhere with an inkling that it will need to be moved again in 8-10 years. Second, regardless of how rich the owner is, no owner wants to lose millions of dollars a year on a losing proposition.

If you're an owner of another NHL team funding the losses of Phoenix to the tune of $40m per year I think the prospect of 8-10 years of NOT having to pay for the losses of another team sounds pretty good. Especially when there will never be an owner that can buy the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale forever. The fact that Thompson wants the Jets back in Winnipeg says he is either OK losing millions per year or he has a plan to turn it around. The bottom line is he's willing to put his own money on the line rather than bellying up to gorge on the taxpayer trough like Hulsizer is only willing to do.

And for people that think there aren't enough seats there, there are 10 current teams that average less than 16,000 attendance each game. By that logic every one of those teams should shut down and move....where? Nobody has a better alternative than Winnipeg at this point that could be ready for the next NHL season.

For anyone that wonders why they left, there are a host of them. They had a shitty arena, now they have a nice new one. The US/C$ discrepancy was terrible, now it's par. The ownership wasn't well funded, now they'd have a billionaire. So the reasons they left are no longer an issue. Can the economics change? Sure, but it's more likely the C$ will get much stronger than the US$ over the next several years.

The real answer is contraction and just start folding teams when they fail but nobody in the NHL will have the balls to try that.

[hamstercaster 2]

15,000 full seats would be better than a lit of other teams are doing right now. On the second comment wouldn't they have to Get CRTC approval for adding channels and doing rate hikes if it wasn't done as a voluntary package to subscribers?

15 000 full seats are definitly better than what many teams presently have but it's still not enough to sustain an NHL franchise unless they are closer to the floor of the cap.

The sport licence has already been approved by the CRTC. Not sure of the terms though. It is probably in the licence terms what they or cannot do.

[Chadd 916]

The real answer is contraction and just start folding teams when they fail but nobody in the NHL will have the balls to try that.

No, the real answer is for the league to fund growth initiatives in the new markets and not let them sink or swim on their own.

[chippa13 1844]

If you're an owner of another NHL team funding the losses of Phoenix to the tune of $40m per year I think the prospect of 8-10 years of NOT having to pay for the losses of another team sounds pretty good. Especially when there will never be an owner that can buy the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale forever. The fact that Thompson wants the Jets back in Winnipeg says he is either OK losing millions per year or he has a plan to turn it around. The bottom line is he's willing to put his own money on the line rather than bellying up to gorge on the taxpayer trough like Hulsizer is only willing to do.

And for people that think there aren't enough seats there, there are 10 current teams that average less than 16,000 attendance each game. By that logic every one of those teams should shut down and move....where? Nobody has a better alternative than Winnipeg at this point that could be ready for the next NHL season.

For anyone that wonders why they left, there are a host of them. They had a shitty arena, now they have a nice new one. The US/C$ discrepancy was terrible, now it's par. The ownership wasn't well funded, now they'd have a billionaire. So the reasons they left are no longer an issue. Can the economics change? Sure, but it's more likely the C$ will get much stronger than the US$ over the next several years.

The real answer is contraction and just start folding teams when they fail but nobody in the NHL will have the balls to try that.

Nobody is ok with losing millions so obviously Thompson "believes" he has a plan for making it work. And sure, some teams average less than the capacity for the Winnipeg building but some of that can be attributed to the economy and teams' fortunes on the ice. When those turn around then likely so will the attendance numbers. Meanwhile, they are still doing a decent job with the corporate money and many teams out there will tell you that the corporate money is where it is really at and subsidize their attendance struggles with that cash. Does Winnipeg have that kind of corporate cash to help sustain the lean times? I'm not so sure.

As for contraction, the NHLPA will fight that tooth and nail. There is no way they would sign off on the loss of 20-23 NHL player jobs and salaries, let alone those of multiple teams.

[Welpe 0]

I wish Houston was a viable city for the NHL for my own selfish reasons. The Toyota Center is a beautiful venue and already functions great for Aero's game... and there are a lot of Canadians here working in the oil industry... not to mention Houston being the 4th largest city in the country (5th largest metro area)... but I think they'd be in the same boat as Atlanta/Phoenix/Florida in terms of fan support.

I'd like to see an NHL team here also but have my misgivings about how successful they would be. It seems there are several sun belt NHL teams that have done well but between the Aeros, Rockets, Texans and that minor league baseball team called the Astros, I don't know that the area would support another professional team. Besides, I've grown to love the Aeros and would have a hard time letting them and their cheap seat promotions go.

Between the amount of transplants we have here and the relatively ease of accessibility for the Toyota center, I don't think it would be impossible for an NHL team to exist here but it would be hard.

[hockeyherb 1]

No, the real answer is for the league to fund growth initiatives in the new markets and not let them sink or swim on their own.

I agree they need to support the growth of the sport but it doesn't mean they can only do that with an NHL team in a city. The Texas Stars are doing a great job in Austin supporting youth hockey.

I don't believe there are enough cities in North America that can support an NHL team given the current cost structure.

[hockeyherb 1]

Nobody is ok with losing millions so obviously Thompson "believes" he has a plan for making it work. And sure, some teams average less than the capacity for the Winnipeg building but some of that can be attributed to the economy and teams' fortunes on the ice. When those turn around then likely so will the attendance numbers. Meanwhile, they are still doing a decent job with the corporate money and many teams out there will tell you that the corporate money is where it is really at and subsidize their attendance struggles with that cash. Does Winnipeg have that kind of corporate cash to help sustain the lean times? I'm not so sure.

As for contraction, the NHLPA will fight that tooth and nail. There is no way they would sign off on the loss of 20-23 NHL player jobs and salaries, let alone those of multiple teams.

Does Winnipeg have less chance than Edmonton? I'm asking that honestly because I don't know the number of corporations in each city but at least Thompson will be well connected in the city. I think their populations aren't that different.

As for contraction, I agree it will never happen by agreement, but it could be the best thing for the sport in the long run to have less, but more successful teams (financially I mean). Other cities can get a team it just doesn't have to be with a payroll of $50m+ per year.

[Chadd 916]

Does Winnipeg have less chance than Edmonton? I'm asking that honestly because I don't know the number of corporations in each city but at least Thompson will be well connected in the city. I think their populations aren't that different.

I believe I linked an article earlier about that, the analysis showed half of the number of large businesses in Winnipeg.

EDIT: Here it is:

The most common question asked about Winnipeg is if it has the corporate muscle. The research firm Environics Analytics turned up 272 businesses in Winnipeg with at least 100 employees and more than $20 million in sales.

That's just over half of what exists in Edmonton.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326714

[hamstercaster 2]

For a profesionnal team to succeed you don't just need an owner with money. You don't only need die hard fans. You need die hard fans with money along with corporations. I don't think we need any proofs that Canada as a whole is hockey country. But there is a difference between a hockey nuts and a hockey nuts that will go watch games, live and won't mind forking out the money to do so. And quite frankly, that's a whole other story.

This past Tuesay in Quebec city they had the Trashers/Habs game on a big screen at the Colisee and they were all happy that it was sold out and were saying that it is proof that Quebec city hockey fans are ready to have a team and it would be viable. Honnestly, it is quite easy to successfully organise such events. They are cheap, they are a one time event and everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon and roll with it. It's a whole different story when you need to have 18 000 + fans 41 times over a season along with full luxury boxes in order to break even or make a small profit. Paying $10 or even $20 for a special event like viewing a game on a giant screen is one thing but paying upwards of a $100 a few times year for one single ticket is another.

Those potential owners need to know what they are getting themselves into. People want a team and say that they will support the team but most of them will end up watching the games on TV. With HD, ticket prices, food and merchandise stand prices, parking etc. the incentives to attend an actual games are not very good. More often than not the hockey being played is sub par and you go back home feeling as though you have just been robbed. Don't get me wrong, watching a game live, in the 100 level luxury box is a lot of fun but I've had more boring games than I had exciting ones and that to me just isn't worth spending hard earned money on and I'm certainly not the only one feeling that way.

[oldman 1]

Glendale presented with a $25 million bill yesterday.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/glendale-on-the-hook-for-25-million/article2002778/

[goblue9280 33]

but between the Aeros, Rockets, Texans and that minor league baseball team called the Astros, I don't know that the area would support another professional team.

I don't think it would be impossible for an NHL team to exist here but it would be hard.

I'll tell you, there are a lot of things that make sense about Houston:

1. Arena - We have a state of the art arena that's only 7 years old and already has the capability to support a pro hockey team... so we wouldn't need to worry about venue for years.

2. Fan Base - 4th largest city and Houston has consistently been one of the fastest growing cities in the country year after year. 26% growth since 2000. Of the transplants, a large number are coming from northern states and Canada.

3. Corporate Support - Which city hosts the headquarters for the most fortune 500 companies (outside of NY)? Houston.

4. Fan Support - Houston is absolutely ACHING for a championship caliber team. Outside of the 2 Rockets titles 15 years ago, no Houston team has won a championship. A playoff caliber team like the Coyotes would garner immediate support from Houstonians as the only legit pro contender in town.

I don't know that Houston makes the most sense for the NHL in terms of strengthening it's brand, but IF the NHL were ever to seriously consider Houston, it seems like now would be the perfect time.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

Hold your horses boys,

NHL, Glendale have made another interim deal to keep the Coyotes in the desert for the upcoming season, to the tune of another 25 million.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=562168&navid=mod-rr-headlines

[Buiss 0]

For a profesionnal team to succeed you don't just need an owner with money. You don't only need die hard fans. You need die hard fans with money along with corporations. I don't think we need any proofs that Canada as a whole is hockey country. But there is a difference between a hockey nuts and a hockey nuts that will go watch games, live and won't mind forking out the money to do so. And quite frankly, that's a whole other story.

This past Tuesay in Quebec city they had the Trashers/Habs game on a big screen at the Colisee and they were all happy that it was sold out and were saying that it is proof that Quebec city hockey fans are ready to have a team and it would be viable. Honnestly, it is quite easy to successfully organise such events. They are cheap, they are a one time event and everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon and roll with it. It's a whole different story when you need to have 18 000 + fans 41 times over a season along with full luxury boxes in order to break even or make a small profit. Paying $10 or even $20 for a special event like viewing a game on a giant screen is one thing but paying upwards of a $100 a few times year for one single ticket is another.

Those potential owners need to know what they are getting themselves into. People want a team and say that they will support the team but most of them will end up watching the games on TV. With HD, ticket prices, food and merchandise stand prices, parking etc. the incentives to attend an actual games are not very good. More often than not the hockey being played is sub par and you go back home feeling as though you have just been robbed. Don't get me wrong, watching a game live, in the 100 level luxury box is a lot of fun but I've had more boring games than I had exciting ones and that to me just isn't worth spending hard earned money on and I'm certainly not the only one feeling that way.

Hey, come on you are assuming that fans from Quebec area can't afford an NHL match? Come on, i know your are not a big fan of Nordiques. On my own business i will spend my money to Quebec NHL games and i will just quit the Bell center. It's a pain in the ass for me driving through Montreal traffic. This city is living on a island with few bridges and they have the worst road system in North America ( a 2 lanes road for almost 80% of the Quebec population to reach Ontario border!!!)

A lot of Quebec fans are going to habs games, it's gonna be cheaper for us and much more nicer seat will be available to general public. Almost all the nicest seats are owned by corporations.

[chippa13 1844]

The nicest seats are always owned by corporations because they are the only ones that can afford them every night. If they were affordable to the common fan then that would mean the team probably doesn't have enough corporate money coming in and will probably not survive.

[shotty 7]

The nicest seats are always owned by corporations because they are the only ones that can afford them every night. If they were affordable to the common fan then that would mean the team probably doesn't have enough corporate money coming in and will probably not survive.

exactly.

a sign that your team is doing well financially is if the seats are being purchased by local business. if quebec city is as viable a market as montreal, you'll see the same "issue". this is why the media talks about "corporate support" - they aren't necessarily referring to sponsorship, naming rights or board decals (although those are important revenue streams) they also want the businesses to buy seats.

in vancouver at rogers arena the seating capacity is at 18,880 or something like that and season tickets account for 17,000 of those seats. i'd say between 8,000-10,000 of those seats are owned by businesses (large and small) and the renewal rate is upwards of 95%. In montreal, if you're there on business, the client almost always expects to see a habs game. the head office for the company i am employed by is in montreal and every single time i invite my client to our offices, they mention the habs. die hard fans are nice, but it takes the entire community to support a franchise of this scale.

[Hordie Gowe 17]

Rumors out there that it is the Thrashers who may be relocated.

@bradyfan590 Spoke to an Atlanta Thrashers player via text message. He's been told to expect a major announcement regarding franchise relocation...

@bradyfan590 With Phoenix seemingly settled, he said he'd been told 2 weeks ago "expect to move, but nothing official before end of Cup Finals".

http://twitter.com/#!/bradyfan590

[raganblink 82]

Not surprising a move would be either atl or Florida. Miami and atl are not or ever will have hockey above fourth most popular sport. And in both towns they are probably fifth most popular, as Georgia tech and Miami football are above them lol.

Wouldn't mind seeing more teams in central time zone to be honest. Houston? Kansas city? Id be surprised to see relocation to Canada. Expansion? Now most definitely in Canada.

[chippa13 1844]

Not surprising a move would be either atl or Florida. Miami and atl are not or ever will have hockey above fourth most popular sport. And in both towns they are probably fifth most popular, as Georgia tech and Miami football are above them lol.

Wouldn't mind seeing more teams in central time zone to be honest. Houston? Kansas city? Id be surprised to see relocation to Canada. Expansion? Now most definitely in Canada.

There have been plenty of years where you could have said the same thing about Boston. I recall a Halloween night game where the B's drew 9,000 fans.

[Chadd 916]

There have been plenty of years where you could have said the same thing about Boston. I recall a Halloween night game where the B's drew 9,000 fans.

Pittsburgh only averaged more than 9k for an entire because they lied about it. And yes, they did admit to it later.