This is for the Skate Sharpeners

[AfftonDad 88]

Regarding heel to toe vs toe to heel (by way of mounting, not with grain/against grain), I was told the following by someone at Blackstone...

"It doesn't matter. I promise you, the skate doesn't know the difference"

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Regarding heel to toe vs toe to heel (by way of mounting, not with grain/against grain), I was told the following by someone at Blackstone...

"It doesn't matter. I promise you, the skate doesn't know the difference"

That is a correct statement. The skate it self and even the blade have no clue.

Now the person wearing it may or may not feel the difference. Maybe people are just super nice but I do my skates the ME way (not an ME dealer nor advertise as such) and I have only ever had I think my edge is off a hair or I would like them a little sharper or duller. Never has anyone say I want you to go heel first and against the grain because I will be X. So I go with the rotation of the wheel.

I simply feel and see a smoother finish with less heat. I also know its just a fact if you start with either end you will put more pressure on the end you start with no matter how good you are. So it's only makes common sence that if you want to maintain rear blade height and shape you would start at the toe first as it would be easier to tell if you are off a little in the toe. And falling a little to much forward is much better then loosing your balance and falling backwards!

[AfftonDad 88]

That is a correct statement. The skate it self and even the blade have no clue.

Now the person wearing it may or may not feel the difference. Maybe people are just super nice but I do my skates the ME way (not an ME dealer nor advertise as such) and I have only ever had I think my edge is off a hair or I would like them a little sharper or duller. Never has anyone say I want you to go heel first and against the grain because I will be X. So I go with the rotation of the wheel.

I simply feel and see a smoother finish with less heat. I also know its just a fact if you start with either end you will put more pressure on the end you start with no matter how good you are. So it's only makes common sence that if you want to maintain rear blade height and shape you would start at the toe first as it would be easier to tell if you are off a little in the toe. And falling a little to much forward is much better then loosing your balance and falling backwards!

I think we may be on close to the same page. I agree that the direction relative to the direction the wheel is spinning makes a difference. I always go "with" the direction the wheel is spinning. I was simply talking about whether you mount the skate in the holder with the toe to the left or the toe to the right. If both the right skate and the left skate are small enough to both fit in the holder in the same orientation I will do them both in the same orientation (relative to each other) every time (I even milled down my holder to reduce interference so that that is the case with more skates). It is only when one skate interferes with the holder that I will put one skate in one direction and the other skate in the other direction. I also agree that try as we may, there is going to be some difference between the start of the pass and the finish of the pass. So I use whether or not it is an odd month or an even month to decide whether or not I put them in heel to toe or toe to heel (on skates that are small enough for me to put in both the same way). In this way the randomness of which month they give them to me in will hopefully even out those differences over time (on skates that I can mount both the same way). I advise EVERYONE who's skates I sharpen that they should periodically rotate their blades from left skate to right skate and vice versa, to eliminate differences that I can't or don't account for. I rotate my son's and my skates blades every month or two for exactly this reason. Perhaps the holders that come with full size machines don't have these interference issues. My only experience is with an X-01.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I just re-profile the skates in Nov to Dec depending on how much outside hockey my players are using the skates for. They get a fresh profile in Sept and then I am mainly the one doing the skates and if that the case a fresh on in Nov to Dec to finish out the season. If by chance they skate school hockey as well as club then I will do 3 to make sure the profile is maintained for the season.

[AfftonDad 88]

Unfortunately, I don't have the necessary equipment to profile. However, I feel I'm pretty careful about doing everything I can to maintain the existing profile and since I sharpen my skates and my son's skates frequently (more often than is probably necessary), I usually just end up getting new runners since profiling (at least around here) is 3/4 the price of a new set of runners anyway (I use the stock CCM radius). I have gone so far as printing out curves of different radiuses to check my work over time and I'm pretty happy with how little it strayed from the stock profile.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well in talking to Bob at ME I stumbled across a way he didnt each before but does now to help maintain the profile at its best and yes if you have that knack as well it sure makes it best for the players you are sharpening for.

[raganblink 82]

Well in talking to Bob at ME I stumbled across a way he didnt each before but does now to help maintain the profile at its best and yes if you have that knack as well it sure makes it best for the players you are sharpening for.

If you're the only person sharpening a players skate, its not difficult to more or less maintain their profile throughout life of the steel. What hurts you and the skater is the random person sharpening them in between yours who just throw it on the holder and do their thing.

One aspect that I will not like about leaving a hockey store will be that I am going to have to trust my skates to random people. If I ever do leave I'll probably just buy my own sharpener haha.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Because I lack profile templates (really wish I knew someone with a set that I can buy them from) I was forced to have one of the local guys profile my skates. He's primarily a figure sharpener and isn't an idiot so I felt pretty comfortable. He, however, was rattled LOL

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

If you're the only person sharpening a players skate, its not difficult to more or less maintain their profile throughout life of the steel. What hurts you and the skater is the random person sharpening them in between yours who just throw it on the holder and do their thing.

One aspect that I will not like about leaving a hockey store will be that I am going to have to trust my skates to random people. If I ever do leave I'll probably just buy my own sharpener haha.

Well it doesnt have to be the same person but I do know what you mean. I have taught many and only a handful get it. Luckily for me that is....LOL

[Sputnik20 46]

hogwash! If the blade is bent, it is almost always bent in 1 place, just put it on the edge of a wood table and bend it back. You would notice that by measuring the blade edge heights, and noting that they varied in height from toe to heel.

I conjecture that a dad who is a little handy, with a home sharpener like a wissota and something to measure the blade edge heights will, within 2 weeks, be cranking out FAR BETTER grinds than the local yokel at the skating rink! This is becuase the local yokel NEVER uses a tool to check blade edge parallelism, and SELDOM redresses his wheel. The result are skate shapenings where one blade is 4 thousandths" higher than the other, and the kid falls every time he turns in one direction on the ice.

What is more important, if you have a serious skater, he is going to want a custom hollow radius based on his ankle strength and weight. Try getting from the high school kid grinding skates at the rink! He has his stone set at 3/8" radius to please all the kiddies there, when you may need 5/8"!

There is nothing particularly frightening or hard to learn to get a good sharpening...just attention to detail and a soft touch.

I am not saying that some guy who has been doing it for 20 years and still cares about his quality will not do a superior job, or some guy who has a CAG1 will not get more consistent profiles. I am saying that, on the average, rink sharpening is very poor quality, and you could do better at home.

Never have I seen a CAG1 do anything more than a back-alley abortion on skates.

[biff44 0]

If you're the only person sharpening a players skate, its not difficult to more or less maintain their profile throughout life of the steel. What hurts you and the skater is the random person sharpening them in between yours who just throw it on the holder and do their thing.

One aspect that I will not like about leaving a hockey store will be that I am going to have to trust my skates to random people. If I ever do leave I'll probably just buy my own sharpener haha.

The problem in rinks is that they grind the heck out of the blade, so the profile is gone pretty quickly. But even at home where you are grinding off just a little of the blade with each resharpen, you can develop a bad habit and put more force on the skate blade at one point than another, and that may eventually screw up the profile. Just concentrate on applying UNIFORM force to the skate during the entire blade pass.

You can get a piece of cardboard and trace out the blade profile when they are new. Then a year later (assuming your kid does not break blades as quickly as mine did) you can compare present to new, and makes some adjustments.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Never have I seen a CAG1 do anything more than a back-alley abortion on skates.

Then the operator had no clue how to use the machine. Kept in tune and adjusted it can do a fine job. I mean heck there are pro guys that use them for everything. BUT they have to be maintained and set up properly! If you dont it could look like a chisel and hammer job......(I like that I just made that up)!!!!....LOL

[smu 29]

I don't always put the gauge on mine, but I do still check them. Checking and taking your time are critical to having a good final result. It kills me when someone doesn't check a skate BEFORE they start sharpening. If you don't look at them before you sharpen, how do you know what you need to fix?

Chadd,

Among all my posts I have not mentioned skate sharpeners too much, but did ask either by pm or open forum what was considered within tolerances for level edges so I can have an educated discussion with the skate sharpener. As one of the above post indicates that even 1/1000" could be significant. I rely on my favorite sharpener to know my style and the problems I have had with balance, falling and pronation and feel he puts his best effort in at least having mine done properly. I lost 2 of my last games by having another sharpener (normally reliable) do my skates but I had a bad game with the skates. I determined, afterwards using a 12" stainless steel ruler with rare earth magnets on top, that the back and front end of one skate blade was not level. I took my ruler and noticed that the blade had a slight bend in it and my standard guy just shrugged it off indicating that the rivets were lose, thus the improper sharpening. He said he straightened the blade and sharpened my skates again. My next game was not much better and I failed to check the edges!

So it could be my blades at times or just a lazy sharpener, make me want to pay the $125 or so for one of those mini straight edges that I see the figure skaters use.

What I would like to know is - when I put a 12" ruler on the blade should I be able to see that it is out or am I going too far?

Given all my problems and my certainty that I am going to have a new pair of Graf skates aligned in May I then have to make sure I am getting the proper sharpening.

Should I see that ruler lean at the back or front and not in the middle (as it was bent) or should it be out anywhere? I suppose not.

Again, what would that fraction of an inch that would not be acceptable given a 12" ruler, 6" on either side.

Thanks - Alan

[Chadd 916]

Not to take a cop out on the question, but it varies from one skater to another. I know some guys that wouldn't notice if the "bat gauge" was off by three lines and others that would notice if the skate was off by the width of the line. Loose rivets shouldn't have any impact on sharpening; the jig grabs the steel, not the boot.

[smu 29]

Not to take a cop out on the question, but it varies from one skater to another. I know some guys that wouldn't notice if the "bat gauge" was off by three lines and others that would notice if the skate was off by the width of the line. Loose rivets shouldn't have any impact on sharpening; the jig grabs the steel, not the boot.

That's great Chadd,

Interesting what was said about the rivets. Since my last game he did indicate that the blade in question need to be straightened again and I just let it go!

I will watch my skates for inconsistencies and address the issues before I use them.

Thanks for your time.

Alan

[growtreesFTO 1]

yeah if the guy says rivets were the blame then not only is he trying to get away with something but also thinks your an idiot. I have been sharpening for over 10 years. I know own a 2 Pro shops and have used every brand of sharpener out ther. NOT ONE jig/holder will hold a boot. They ALL clamp the blade to assure rigid contact on the stone.

He was just too lazy. or his equipment is no longer taking accurate readings.

Different rinks/shops use different tools to measure equality between edges. Some are easier to read and more accurate then others. That may be the reason as well. I know that it took me a while to find a tool i liked to measure. I now use a mini speed square thats hardened steel and adjustable. Best thing i ever baught. 5 years old and still going strong. cheaper then blackstones bat wing and blademasters B-200 magnet jig.

[smu 29]

yeah if the guy says rivets were the blame then not only is he trying to get away with something but also thinks your an idiot. I have been sharpening for over 10 years. I know own a 2 Pro shops and have used every brand of sharpener out ther. NOT ONE jig/holder will hold a boot. They ALL clamp the blade to assure rigid contact on the stone.

He was just too lazy. or his equipment is no longer taking accurate readings.

Different rinks/shops use different tools to measure equality between edges. Some are easier to read and more accurate then others. That may be the reason as well. I know that it took me a while to find a tool i liked to measure. I now use a mini speed square thats hardened steel and adjustable. Best thing i ever baught. 5 years old and still going strong. cheaper then blackstones bat wing and blademasters B-200 magnet jig.

Thanks for the comments, maybe he was saying that the skates were sharpened with the slight bend in the blade resulting in the edge being off. Then the work with the rivets straightened out the holder and problem?

Can you tell me where to buy the mini T Square? What is the brand name or any identification and I can look it up.

Thanks - Alan

[x-track 8]

where would I get the ivory soap mentioned ?? what's so special about it vs other soaps ?