This is for the Skate Sharpeners

[Jason 65]

JR, what product are you using to lubricate for your final passes and what is it that you do at the very end? It looks like you put something on the blade and then roll it back and forth.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

JR, what product are you using to lubricate for your final passes and what is it that you do at the very end? It looks like you put something on the blade and then roll it back and forth.

Second to last pass looks like he is using FineShine

http://www.blackstonesport.com/product_details.cfm?product_id=75

Last pass a product called LubeTube from Blackstone - don't see it on the website anymore - really cakes up the wheels including the dressing spinner - old skoolers (Bob Allen) use Ivory soap on the blades before last pass or a wax crayon which has the same effect. Personally I think it's the wheel and steel that gives the best finish - BladeMaster has a gold wheel that works great better then most preferred wheels but not for high volume skate shops - most use the Ruby wheel because they can get more skates per wheel then the softer gold wheel - StepSteel on a gold wheel with Soap+LubeTube I swear you can see yourself on the bottom of the blade!

Don't know what the coin is = nickel rolling on Telfon coated blade? - I'm I close JR?

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

That was an ice cube. Put it on there to show that it didn't melt. Didn't translate on the video well, but basically the point was that I didn't get the blade hot.

Yeah, I don't really use Lube Tube on a final anymore - it does gum up the wheel a bit. I dab a little after sharpening and buff it off.

Ryobi makes a polish that is pretty good and doesn't gum up the wheel. Comes in a tube - and is very cheap if you buy it online.

[rachael7 1]

I had a cake of clear stick wax that came in a little round plastic clamshell case that worked well for the final without gumming up the wheel as much as the Lube Tube. But I switched to the liquid (oil) type and get almost as good a finish with very little buildup on the wheel at all.

[ReggieDunlop 3]

That was an ice cube. Put it on there to show that it didn't melt. Didn't translate on the video well, but basically the point was that I didn't get the blade hot.

Yeah, I don't really use Lube Tube on a final anymore - it does gum up the wheel a bit. I dab a little after sharpening and buff it off.

Ryobi makes a polish that is pretty good and doesn't gum up the wheel. Comes in a tube - and is very cheap if you buy it online.

Use Stainless steel buffing compound?

http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/accessories/buffing_accessories/A01AG15

No stone after last pass? - safety first - glasses? Grow the moustache instead of the beard

[Jason 65]

Is that the product you were referring to JR? What is the downside (if any) to using Ivory soap?

[ReggieDunlop 3]

Is that the product you were referring to JR? What is the downside (if any) to using Ivory soap?

The purpose of using something is to have the steel not heat up too hot during a slow final pass - some do cake up the wheel and all will slightly coat the wheel until burned off or dressed again - -just preference- - ivory soap is cheap easy to apply and accessible at all grocery stores - made from ---

Ivory website:

"What are Ivory's ingredients?

Ivory Soap is made of both vegetable oils and animal fats. Two different kinds of vegetable oils are used in Ivory - coconut oil and palm kernel oil. We add a preservative, less than ½ of 1% of magnesium sulfate and sodium silicate, to keep the bar as white as its name.

Ivory contains no heavy perfumes, creams or dyes. A light fragrance is added to provide that Ivory clean smell."

I know at least with the LubeTube I can see the residue on the wheel with the soap I can't - but again it's not wax ingredients burns off quicker then LubeTube I would like to know what some use after called "sauce" wax-teflon applied that penetrates in the steel? close Jimmy???

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

Yep

[PersonalTrainer00 0]

hey new to this forum but had a quick question about the difference between sharpening a skate from toe to heel as aposed to heel to toe?

[hockeyaussie 1]

Interesting thread. I'm an ex-metal machinist with a little bit of precision grinding experience, good mechanical aptitude and attention to detail. I'd love to have a machine out the back where I could sharpen skates for people! Maybe I should talk to my rink about part-time sharpening... hmm maybe in exchange for free ice time...

[biff44 0]

hey new to this forum but had a quick question about the difference between sharpening a skate from toe to heel as aposed to heel to toe?

I do not know what the industry standard is, but it seems to take off more metal when you go against the direction of the wheel spin. So I used to go against the wheel for the first passes, and at the end I would move the skate with the wheel spin direction for a finer finishing grind.

For some reason my son often had big divots in the metal edges (must have been a lot of grit in the rink he played at), So I was always grinding to remove those divots as the first step.

As far as the blade heating up when grinding out those divots--you do not want it to heat up. I found that a damp cloth cooled it right down, if needed.

[vaporboy12 0]

I was taught back in the day like 10 years ago to go heel to toe. Most people I have worked with lately got toe to heel. I still prefer heel to toe. I feel I get a better finish.

[Sputnik20 46]

I come from a family of jewelers, and when you polish gold on a buffing wheel, you go against the grain. That's how I sharpen also, against the wheel's turn. I also use the ruby red medium grit wheel and get an almost polished finish (you can't see the grain/pattern at all), and I use gusto glide from blademaster on my last finish. I've been accused by some customers that I'm not really sharpening because they can't hear the grinding over the sound of the exhaust (while some people it sounds like a machine gun nest), but in reality I just dress the wheel so fine that it doesn't grind as much as polish from the start.

I must say that display by JR is very impressive. However when I sharpen I don't produce that much spark. Still, I will work on a one hand finish more.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

So, every pass you do, you are going from L to R?

[forbs02 20]

I've never really experimented with it to see if it is true or not, but I feel like going against the wheel takes more steel off with each pass. I like to take as little steel as needed to get the nicks out.

[Sputnik20 46]

So, every pass you do, you are going from L to R?

I do about 90% of the time. Final path 100% of the time.

[vaporboy12 0]

I go left to right all the time, Just what I was taught(That was from the blade master video that is at least 12 years on, when I started working in a shop before I was aloud to sharpen I had to watch it). I don't think it takes any more off the blade then going right to left but never really tested that. The finish on the wheel is just as important as the finish you put on the blade. I am no master but I fancy myself as being pretty damn good

[mnpucker 33]

Sorry to drag up an older post but an experience I had this weekend got me curious. My boys team was in a tournament in a remote area of Minnesota, Roseau, MN. Not knowing what was available I brought my X02. To date, only one other kid on the team uses FBV. Some of the parents were leary of FBV. Well after game one a kid lost an edge and needed my help. I started working on his skate and upon balance check I noticed the front was off by well over 3/1000ths and the back was off by equal amount the opposite way.

I showed his dad and even showed him that the middle of the blade was level (Like two ships passing in the night they are bound to match at some point if poff equally from one end to the other.

That dad mentioned it to another and pretty soon I was sharpening half the team. Each skate that came to me was off level considerably, one was way worse than 3/1000ths to the point I could not even guess because it was off the scale.

So we all know that SOME shops tend to zip through massive amounts of skates without care of level. It happens for many reasons, I get that. But my question is how much does this extreme imbalance impact the players speed and agility? 2 of the players with the worst sharpenings tended to go down often. After I shaprened their skates they seemed to stay upright in our games, parents (of the player and others) actually noticed.

On a side note, all of the players appreciated the FBV sharepening. I asked each when they took the ice to take a second prior to warm up and test them out. Check glide, go into extreme edge cuts to gain confidence. Each did and liked FBV. Some parents asked how/when they could drop their skates off at my house.....I told them that a better idea is to go to the store that offers it, find a manager and talk to them about the situation. I urged them to find a "regular, experienced" guy at the shop and develop a relationship with them. Truth is I am not always available but happy to help in a pinch.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Well. I have found it makes a HUGE difference if skates are off even 1/1000in the manner you are suggesting. The effect of a un-even blade could result in a serious injury as happened at one of our teams recent games. Also I was at a pre-camp skate in which a player I have worked with before had the local guy do them and I have seen his sharpening before and the player took a sharp turn and almost took out the boards. I watched him sharpen these skates and he is usually very good but rushed because he was running behind going back and forth on the wheel and did not check the final skate for level. So yes it can make a huge difference and its really good to see even though your doing it mainly for your self that you take that much pride in doing others skates. Its always fun to watch others do well after you know you did a good job!

[Powerfibers 8]

The even edges makes very noticeable differences even to younger players. We have a new "Custom Edge" shop in town and while I think that the honing process is not so revolutionary and their marketing hype makes me cringe, I think that the fact that the guy measures the edges three or four times is important and gives them a good outcome. I have cringed when I see other shops do skates and never put the edge gauge to them at all.

Also, these new guys make no promises as to when you'll get them done. They take their time.

My son says that they are the only ones who do a good job other than when I do them for him myself on the X0-2.

[Chadd 916]

I think that the fact that the guy measures the edges three or four times is important and gives them a good outcome. I have cringed when I see other shops do skates and never put the edge gauge to them at all.

Also, these new guys make no promises as to when you'll get them done. They take their time.

I don't always put the gauge on mine, but I do still check them. Checking and taking your time are critical to having a good final result. It kills me when someone doesn't check a skate BEFORE they start sharpening. If you don't look at them before you sharpen, how do you know what you need to fix?

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

The even edges makes very noticeable differences even to younger players. We have a new "Custom Edge" shop in town and while I think that the honing process is not so revolutionary and their marketing hype makes me cringe, I think that the fact that the guy measures the edges three or four times is important and gives them a good outcome. I have cringed when I see other shops do skates and never put the edge gauge to them at all.

Also, these new guys make no promises as to when you'll get them done. They take their time.

My son says that they are the only ones who do a good job other than when I do them for him myself on the X0-2.

Now, I'm not going to shill for Maximum-Edge as I do have my issues with them, however, the process IS sound. Done correctly, the constant checking and honing does product even edges. Unfortunately, it still means the sharpener must physically do the things to produce a good sharpening, however, quite a few don't, but still use the program to gain credibility.

It kills me when someone doesn't check a skate BEFORE they start sharpening. If you don't look at them before you sharpen, how do you know what you need to fix?

Not necessarily, IMO; I rarely, if not ever check the edges before I sharpen. I know what the end result is going to be, and I remove the boot from the jig halfway through the process, so whatever was there previously would be gone before I checked for squareness.

[Chadd 916]

I always check for chips and chunks missing. I don't want to think I'm done and then realize that there is still a flat spot because the guy stepped on something and it went deeper than a normal sharpening will fix. I never take the boot out until I'm done, though I often check while still attached to the jig. There's a hundred different ways to do get to the same end result. The key is to have a process that works and follow it every time.

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

That's different; checking the condition of the runner is absolute.

I took your post the wrong way as the OP was talking about checking for squareness.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

The even edges makes very noticeable differences even to younger players. We have a new "Custom Edge" shop in town and while I think that the honing process is not so revolutionary and their marketing hype makes me cringe, I think that the fact that the guy measures the edges three or four times is important and gives them a good outcome. I have cringed when I see other shops do skates and never put the edge gauge to them at all.

Also, these new guys make no promises as to when you'll get them done. They take their time.

My son says that they are the only ones who do a good job other than when I do them for him myself on the X0-2.

I have no clue how many total sharpeners I have trained over the last eight years. I would say maybe 100 or more. That being said there is probably 30 I would send to a team to do work. I was called last week actually to find a local guy for a high end team due to long term illness. So its nice to know people think you do quality work I know about 5 or 6 guys that have gone on to do sharpening for teams that I have trained and I know I have worked with many more NCAA espically when on road trips to schools. ME was a great teacher and as JR says you follow the steps you can do an amazing job and get referals to do some pretty cool gigs. Austailia is up next with the Stopconcussions.com group.

As for the whole toe to heel and so on I will just say I go toe to heel and leave it at that. I know my finish is very clean and smooth. Also I do use a product to finish but has to used sparingly as mentioned above to reduce the build up on the wheel but another thing you have to consider is the stuff that builds up like an oil based product will also clog the filter as well. Just a thought to keep in mind!