Penn State hockey goes Div. 1

[flyers10 57]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5580469

Can't wait for the arena to be built and watch a football game and hockey game in same weekend.

[troy 12]

I kid I've played with starting at age eight is on the team now, I'll see if he has anything interesting to say about the bump up. I know they had been talking about it for sometime. I also think a member here plays for the current top team as well.

[Chadd 916]

They've been talking about it for close to a decade. They should have set up the Bryce Jordan Center for ice when they built it, there were a lot of discussions at that time. The big problems have always been the cost and the title IX implications, it will be interesting to see how they deal with those aspects.

[raganblink 82]

Article says men's and women's.

[BackinAction 0]

I wonder if this will impact the existing club teams. Do any other D1 schools also have club teams?

[sitzlejd 0]

I wonder if this will impact the existing club teams. Do any other D1 schools also have club teams?

I went to Miami (OH) and they have a club team. As far as I know they play at a decently high level too. I know at one point a goalie jumped from club to be a backup on the D1 team b/c of injuries, but that was probably 5-6 years ago.

*edit* They are in ACHA Division II, playing in the GMHL (Great Midwest Hockey League). Other members of the league include Ferris State, Michigan State and Michigan.

[psh 25]

I wonder if this will impact the existing club teams. Do any other D1 schools also have club teams?

Good news in general, but bad news for some legendary rivalries. Word is that the existing Big 10 schools (including the University of MN and University of Wisconsin) will soon be joining Penn in a new Big 10 hockey league. That will pretty much wipe out the U of M/University of North Dakota rivalry. Seems inconceivable to me, but it is bound to happen. The only comparison I can think of is if greater Boston announced that the Beanpot was canceled indefinitely. Lunacy or tragedy.

[Chadd 916]

Good news in general, but bad news for some legendary rivalries. Word is that the existing Big 10 schools (including the University of MN and University of Wisconsin) will soon be joining Penn in a new Big 10 hockey league. That will pretty much wipe out the U of M/University of North Dakota rivalry. Seems inconceivable to me, but it is bound to happen. The only comparison I can think of is if greater Boston announced that the Beanpot was canceled indefinitely. Lunacy or tragedy.

I'm sure there will still be some non-league games and there's no doubt that having a big ten hockey league had as much to do with the decision as the donation for the rink.

[psh 25]

I'm sure there will still be some non-league games and there's no doubt that having a big ten hockey league had as much to do with the decision as the donation for the rink.

You're right. Those games will be great for a while, but the rivalries will certainly wane over time. The conference standings, frequent match ups, etc. will no longer supply fuel to the fire.

Reps from Wisconsin and Minnesota, including Don Lucia, are already talking about Big 10 hockey as though it's a done deal.

[Hawkeye 0]

You're right. Those games will be great for a while, but the rivalries will certainly wane over time. The conference standings, frequent match ups, etc. will no longer supply fuel to the fire.

Reps from Wisconsin and Minnesota, including Don Lucia, are already talking about Big 10 hockey as though it's a done deal.

It's just a matter of when. The schools can't turn down national exposure on their own TV network.

I wonder if the non D1 hockey programs have interest in starting programs.

[raganblink 82]

Illinois has had interest for a long time. They would be the only school to make the jump imo. Maybe nw. The rest could care less. Thyll still have there acha club.

[Hawkeye 0]

Illinois has had interest for a long time. They would be the only school to make the jump imo. Maybe nw. The rest could care less. Thyll still have there acha club.

Purdue has a decent club team at least as good a NW and so does Nebraska. I'm sure they would all get killed by established D1 programs.

My question is how long would it take to get the program on it's feet on going.

[GoBucky 0]

Im glad to see Penn State go D-1. The more, the merrier. About a Big Ten hockey, I'll believe it when I see it. Reps can talk about it like its a done deal all that want, but that doesnt make it so...

[Trooper 8]

They are grandfathered in and can maintain a DI club team even with an NCAA team. They will, however, fall from their glory years. I can't see Nike maintaining their relationship with a club team when there's an NCAA team around. They won't sell out club games and funding will be cut. I assume they'll be a step above other teams in similar circumstances like Robert Morris and Mercyhurst.

[raganblink 82]

Psu is going to be dominate in five years after they start. That's the dream college for a lot of kids from pitt and philly, and both are stacked in talent.

[BarDownGinos 3]

They are grandfathered in and can maintain a DI club team even with an NCAA team. They will, however, fall from their glory years. I can't see Nike maintaining their relationship with a club team when there's an NCAA team around. They won't sell out club games and funding will be cut. I assume they'll be a step above other teams in similar circumstances like Robert Morris and Mercyhurst.

Dude, PSU is a Nike school, and a major one. Nike gives them gear because as a whole they make tons of money off of PSU. Iowa State, Oklahoma, University of Colorado are all Nike schools, and all the teams are outfitted in Nike gear. It has nothing to do with a specific tie between Nike and the club team.

[gerbe3:16 19]

Psu is going to be dominate in five years after they start. That's the dream college for a lot of kids from pitt and philly, and both are stacked in talent.

Whoaaaaaaaa. Slow down there. Dominate in 5 years? It's not easy to build a program from scratch. They've got the cash to take care of the scholarship funding for men's and women's and the new arena. Which I'm sure will be nice. There are teams out there with absolutely awesome arenas, support, and history and they aren't dominating right now (North Dakota comes to mind... no titles since 2000).

But one important part of this program is not in place yet and that is the coach. This decision will be huge. Pick a schmuck for a coach and you're setting the program back a good amount of time and you're going to allow PSU to become a Big Ten doormat. Good coaches that like to stick around in college don't grow on trees. There are a lot of openings that may be coming up in a while (BC, BU with York and Parker getting older). That might help or hurt depending on the timeline for those two programs ... if it's sooner rather than later they could stick around for that, if it's longer they could jump to PSU to get head coaching experience and then leave it when a bigger job opens up. I'll be interested to see what they have for a list of candidates.

To be brutally honest, I don't have a problem with PSU starting a hockey program and it won't affect the program I follow all that much. I do have a problem with the turds in the Big Ten offices that want to slap their stinking logo on a conference and by doing so ruin a large portion of college hockey. All the smaller CCHA programs and WCHA programs are going to take a huge huge hit, even powers like Denver and North Dakota because they aren't the cool kids on the block with a big football program. And rest assured, Big Ten hockey is absolutely going to happen. There is talk that if this doesn't work out so well for the CCHA/WCHA remnants, you might see some schools close up shop and kill their programs (former power Lake Superior State being among that group rumored). This will open the door and Illinois will add a program and you'll probably see more down the road. It's going to kill some rivalries, conferences, and programs.

Now there are folks that say, "but don't you want to grow the college game?" No. What's wrong with it? I like it the way it is. It's a nice niche sport right now and the community is a nice tightknit community. College hockey does pretty well for itself and they're still losing the battle with the Canadian Major Juniors (and hence the creation of College Hockey Inc to fight that battle - will the Big Ten and PSU change this at all? No...). The Frozen Fours are amazing because of this small niche and community. Last year's Frozen Four was an absolute abortion according to most fans there in almost unanimous agreement, myself included. It belonged in JLA not Ford Field. And that's what you're going to see every year down the road. Just like you see the Final Four for hoops in these big domes.

I'll be interested to see how the rest of the college hockey world and especially the big programs not involved will treat PSU (BC, BU, Denver, North Dakota, CC, etc) and how much this upsets the college hockey world.

Last Friday was a BAD, BAD day for college hockey.

[shooter27 116]

Whoaaaaaaaa. Slow down there. Dominate in 5 years? It's not easy to build a program from scratch. They've got the cash to take care of the scholarship funding for men's and women's and the new arena. Which I'm sure will be nice. There are teams out there with absolutely awesome arenas, support, and history and they aren't dominating right now (North Dakota comes to mind... no titles since 2000).

But one important part of this program is not in place yet and that is the coach. This decision will be huge. Pick a schmuck for a coach and you're setting the program back a good amount of time and you're going to allow PSU to become a Big Ten doormat. Good coaches that like to stick around in college don't grow on trees. There are a lot of openings that may be coming up in a while (BC, BU with York and Parker getting older). That might help or hurt depending on the timeline for those two programs ... if it's sooner rather than later they could stick around for that, if it's longer they could jump to PSU to get head coaching experience and then leave it when a bigger job opens up. I'll be interested to see what they have for a list of candidates.

To be brutally honest, I don't have a problem with PSU starting a hockey program and it won't affect the program I follow all that much. I do have a problem with the turds in the Big Ten offices that want to slap their stinking logo on a conference and by doing so ruin a large portion of college hockey. All the smaller CCHA programs and WCHA programs are going to take a huge huge hit, even powers like Denver and North Dakota because they aren't the cool kids on the block with a big football program. And rest assured, Big Ten hockey is absolutely going to happen. There is talk that if this doesn't work out so well, you might see some schools close up shop and kill their programs (former power Lake Superior State being among that group rumored). This will open the door and Illinois will add a program and you'll probably see more down the road. It's going to kill some rivalries, conferences, and programs.

Now there are folks that say, "but don't you want to grow the college game?" No. What's wrong with it? I like it the way it is. It's a nice niche sport right now and the community is a nice tightknit community. College hockey does pretty well for itself and they're still losing the battle with the Canadian Major Juniors (and hence the creation of College Hockey Inc to fight that battle - will the Big Ten and PSU change this at all? No...). The Frozen Fours are amazing because of this small niche and community. Last year's Frozen Four was an absolute abortion according to most fans there in almost unanimous agreement, myself included. It belonged in JLA not Ford Field. And that's what you're going to see every year down the road. Just like you see the Final Four for hoops in these big domes.

I'll be interested to see how the rest of the college hockey world and especially the big programs not involved will treat PSU (BC, BU, Denver, North Dakota, CC, etc) and how much this upsets the college hockey world.

Last Friday was a BAD, BAD day for college hockey.

I think the Big Ten Hockey Conference isn't as much of a sure thing as you make it out to be. As currently constructed, if you include PSU, then it would only be a 6 team conference, and as recent history has show, 6 team conferences have a hard time surviving, the CHA being the most recent example. Its tough to run a 6 team conference because teams can only play each other so many times and the teams outside the conference only have so many non-conference game slots, regardless of how attractive it would be to be playing teams from the Big Ten. I don't think you're going to see a Big Ten Hockey Conference until you get at least 2 more Big Ten schools with varsity programs. Now, the word is those programs aren't that far away, but people have been saying that about PSU for at least the past 20 years, so it may be a while.

As for PSU dominating, that won't happen any time soon. They're most likely going to end up in the CCHA, which is a brutal conference to compete in. And yes, they have some great talent available from the Philly and Pittsburgh areas, but if you looked around the NCAA and took all the top kids from those areas and formed one team, that team would be very competitive but far from dominant. As Minnesota proved you can't put together a dominant team recruiting from just one area. Minnesota historically only recruited Minnesota kids, but then they went through a rough down patch in the late '90s. It wasn't until they started bringing in a few kids from outside the state (and in some cases outside the country)that they were able to come back to national prominence. PSU will put together a competitive program, but I highly doubt they're going into this thinking they'll only recruit kids from PA, which means they're going to have to battle many of the established programs for talent.

At the end of the day, college hockey is going to grow whether you like it or not. The leagues want it, and in the right settings it is a revenue generating sport (think Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, BU, BC, Denver, UND, Wisco, etc., and PSU will probably fall into that category) which makes it attractive to schools and ADs. Personally, if the game is going to grow, I'd much rather see it growing at programs like PSU that are going to put the money into it and could build strong programs, rather than adding more programs like Robert Morris, Mercyhhurst, Niagra, etc. that are clearly second tier programs.

[BarDownGinos 3]

As Minnesota proved you can't put together a dominant team recruiting from just one area. Minnesota historically only recruited Minnesota kids, but then they went through a rough down patch in the late '90s. It wasn't until they started bringing in a few kids from outside the state (and in some cases outside the country)that they were able to come back to national prominence.

You mean the years they won back to back titles with 1 kid from Canada, 1 from Austria, 1 from Colorado and 4 from ND? I'm glad you used the words "a few kids" because 7 non MN players in 2 years definitely fits that term.

[GoBucky 0]

Id be very surprised to see Penn State dominating college hockey anytime soon. Theres some great programs out there that have storied histories and strong recruiting that would like nothing more than to blow PSU right out of the building.

[shooter27 116]

You mean the years they won back to back titles with 1 kid from Canada, 1 from Austria, 1 from Colorado and 4 from ND? I'm glad you used the words "a few kids" because 7 non MN players in 2 years definitely fits that term.

Thats exactly my point, prior to those teams, they never went outside of Minnesota. They had to go outside of the state to add those couple of pieces that they needed to push them over the top. Lets not forget, its not unrealistic to believe that without Vanek they wouldn't have won that second title. He was about as dominant as they come that season.

[shooter27 116]

Here's an interesting article about the long-range outlook for growth of college hockey. It disagrees with my opinion about he Big Ten and it also brings up some interesting ideas regarding further expansion that would bring D1 to 66 teams from 59 (59 includes PSU). Those expansion ideas come straight from the mouth of Paul Kelly, the President of College Hockey Inc.

http://www.fromtherink.com/2010/9/20/1698373/penn-state-hockey-and-ncaa

[gerbe3:16 19]

I think the Big Ten Hockey Conference isn't as much of a sure thing as you make it out to be. As currently constructed, if you include PSU, then it would only be a 6 team conference, and as recent history has show, 6 team conferences have a hard time surviving, the CHA being the most recent example. Its tough to run a 6 team conference because teams can only play each other so many times and the teams outside the conference only have so many non-conference game slots, regardless of how attractive it would be to be playing teams from the Big Ten. I don't think you're going to see a Big Ten Hockey Conference until you get at least 2 more Big Ten schools with varsity programs. Now, the word is those programs aren't that far away, but people have been saying that about PSU for at least the past 20 years, so it may be a while.

The Big Ten hockey conference is about as likely to happen as death and taxes. It is happening and will begin 2014 at the latest with the existing 6 teams. Now... you simply can't compare a 6-team conference like the Big Ten to the CHA. The Big Ten would have 4 superpowers that have all won multiple national titles and 3 of the programs have won national titles in the past 10 years (the other one, Michigan, only has the most national titles ever). CHA can't say that. Then you have doormat OSU and upstart PSU. Those 4 teams will give them great power alone as a conference and add in the fact that everyone will want to play them (some will continue with rivalries that are being somewhat broken up with this conference move) with all those open dates and you have a recipe for this thing working and keep in mind those schools in the WCHA and CCHA as leftovers will have more open dates with a smaller conference unless they expand or join forces as a big conference with divisional play.

As for PSU dominating, that won't happen any time soon. They're most likely going to end up in the CCHA

I think they're going to go independent for two years and then the Big Ten will get rolling in the fall 2014 according to reports I've read.

At the end of the day, college hockey is going to grow whether you like it or not. The leagues want it, and in the right settings it is a revenue generating sport (think Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, BU, BC, Denver, UND, Wisco, etc., and PSU will probably fall into that category) which makes it attractive to schools and ADs. Personally, if the game is going to grow, I'd much rather see it growing at programs like PSU that are going to put the money into it and could build strong programs, rather than adding more programs like Robert Morris, Mercyhhurst, Niagra, etc. that are clearly second tier programs.

Whether or not it's going to grow is debatable. More teams are losing programs than adding programs over the last 15 years. Findlay, Wayne State, Iona, Fairfield and Illinois Chicago are all gone in that span. Some programs have moved up. A few have been added or will be. In the end, with the problem facing college hockey (again, see College Hockey Inc and what their true reason for existence is), it's getting the best of college hockey now and it might be a stretch to think slapping a Big Ten label on 5 programs (and getting it on Big Ten television) and adding another one will help solve that or make this problem up north go away.

The profitability of college hockey is an issue as well. These programs are all going to need to have 18 scholarships to compete and you're going to have to fund 18 schollies on the women's side for either hockey or some other sport. That doesn't come cheap. The logistics of having a suitable rink available comes into play as well. Most don't. And if you're talking about building one, you're talking about needing a big-time donor like this "gas-bag" (I made a joke) Pegula at PSU.

This whole thing makes for interesting conversation, that's for sure.

[shooter27 116]

Whether or not it's going to grow is debatable. More teams are losing programs than adding programs over the last 15 years. Findlay, Wayne State, Iona, Fairfield and Illinois Chicago are all gone in that span. Some programs have moved up. A few have been added or will be. In the end, with the problem facing college hockey (again, see College Hockey Inc and what their true reason for existence is), it's getting the best of college hockey now and it might be a stretch to think slapping a Big Ten label on 5 programs (and getting it on Big Ten television) and adding another one will help solve that or make this problem up north go away.

The profitability of college hockey is an issue as well. These programs are all going to need to have 18 scholarships to compete and you're going to have to fund 18 schollies on the women's side for either hockey or some other sport. That doesn't come cheap. The logistics of having a suitable rink available comes into play as well. Most don't. And if you're talking about building one, you're talking about needing a big-time donor like this "gas-bag" (I made a joke) Pegula at PSU.

This whole thing makes for interesting conversation, that's for sure.

According to the article I posted above, it looks like you're right about the Big Ten. However, D1 has definitely grown in terms of the number of programs over the past 15 years. Yes, you've lost Findlay, Wayne, Iona, UIC, and Fairfield, but you've added Quinnipiac, AIC, Bentley, Canisus, UCONN, Holy Cross, Mercyhurst, Niagra, RIT, Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, Alabama-Huntsville, and Bemidji State. Additionally, a couple of the programs that have lost were programs that were created and ended within that 15 year time frame so they're net effect on the number of teams over the 15 year period is zero. Granted, a number of those programs added moved from D2 or D3, but D1 hockey has clearly grown.

As for the profitability issue, you're right, only a few programs are able to be profitable and competitive because of the costs involved. But, for the right programs, hockey is definitely a revenue generating sport.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

The Big Ten hockey conference is about as likely to happen as death and taxes. It is happening and will begin 2014 at the latest with the existing 6 teams. Now... you simply can't compare a 6-team conference like the Big Ten to the CHA. The Big Ten would have 4 superpowers that have all won multiple national titles and 3 of the programs have won national titles in the past 10 years (the other one, Michigan, only has the most national titles ever). CHA can't say that. Then you have doormat OSU and upstart PSU. Those 4 teams will give them great power alone as a conference and add in the fact that everyone will want to play them (some will continue with rivalries that are being somewhat broken up with this conference move) with all those open dates and you have a recipe for this thing working and keep in mind those schools in the WCHA and CCHA as leftovers will have more open dates with a smaller conference unless they expand or join forces as a big conference with divisional play.

Probably a dumb question............What is the CHA?