2011 Bauer Catalogue

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Quit posting that link.

[mug25 2]

I love the French description typo on page 59 (TO Gloves)

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

Has anyone seen the new TotalOne shoulder pads? Are the caps more low profile than past Bauer caps?

[troy 12]

Good question, that’s what I’d like to know too, are they ditching the PETE Heel support and basically offering a T1 in a Vapor mold and graphics, or is it still present?

Cheers

OT: But, Rubo, I assume you've been, and will continue to, hack up all sorts of skates. Any chance you could ever share some pictures?

[DarkStar50 679]

Rubo, show us your pictures. When we were kids we used to say "Put your money where your mouth is."

[DarkStar50 679]

Then it's just a T1 wolf in sheep's clothes as far as structural design goes. I don’t know if Bauer does this on purpose or simply hit the wall as far as pushing the envelope goes, but they always succeed a lot more on every second generation.

Now we’re at the crossroads where their top of the line Vapor model in reality is no longer a traditional Vapor, so it will be interesting to see from close up pics who will wear an APX 7.0 or an actual APX. Of course my opinion is based on the assumption, that they don’t have an S9 type model for the Vapor line where the outside is Alive, but the internals are still traditional Vapor line, which might be the case with P.Kane who’s their golden boy.

Cheers

Bauer has "hit the wall", that is really pretty funny! Therefore, thank you for clarifying that your opinions are assumptions although some will miss that statement and take them as facts.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Sorry no pics, maybe Dark has some, he runs a proper repair shop. Back to the APX, if the info from this link is true:

http://timminssourceforsports.com/tips/bauer-vapor-apx-vs-x60-skate/

Then it's just a T1 wolf in sheep's clothes as far as structural design goes. I don’t know if Bauer does this on purpose or simply hit the wall as far as pushing the envelope goes, but they always succeed a lot more on every second generation.

I’ve noticed on a pro level the switch from XX to XXX was some what quick, then the switch to XXXX was very long one, then once X60 came out I saw lots of players switch over some what quickly again.

Now we’re at the crossroads where their top of the line Vapor model in reality is no longer a traditional Vapor, so it will be interesting to see from close up pics who will wear an APX 7.0 or an actual APX. Of course my opinion is based on the assumption, that they don’t have an S9 type model for the Vapor line where the outside is Alive, but the internals are still traditional Vapor line, which might be the case with P.Kane who’s their golden boy.

Cheers

Well - I agree with your statement; but Supreme is their tech-driven skate. For the past 5 years they've pushed the envelope with the Supreme; we'll see what is in store for 2012.

[DarkStar50 679]

I also miss those days when we were kids and learning the values of life, now we’re are adults and everything is a contradiction to those values. For me to properly answer your challenge, first you would have to watch the documentary called “Thrilla in Manilla” to the very end. After that my answer to you would be - I’m not a Joe Frazer, and would not fall into your trap :-)

Cheers.

Whatever you have to hide, so be it.

JR I think the biggest question Bauer has to answer to them selves is, do you they tell the market what to use or does the market tell them what they want to use. My theory is they constantly keep telling the market what to use and every second generation they get a push back so they go back to the ideas that worked. I guess maybe in a way it is kind of pushing the envelope to far out. But they have a privilege of NHL, where most industries don’t have such luxury as far as testing the product before mass producing it. And if you see a constant push back from the players why would you continue to go into that direction. Think back to the dominance of the XX/XXX and supreme model in a single season, and now compare it to the year of One95 and XXXX in a single season.

Cheers

Cheers.

Theories and assumptions are an iffy proposition. Bauer doesn't test product in the NHL. It is tested elsewhere long before even Bauer's elite core group of NHLers(Staal brothers, Kane, Richards, Kessel, Johnson, Kesler) gets to use the product in the NHL, let alone the rest of the league. I give you points for creativity in your thinking and theories. However, I know some of the guys who design the Bauer skates and believe their strategies don't line up at all with yours.

[raganblink 82]

Why would you make a limited edition of a model, but then change the model? It's no longer a limited edition whatever, but infact something completely different. Furthermore, adding the holder, plus a different graphics package, plus changing the interior graphics and tongue color among other things, plus limiting the quantity significantly makes it limited edition.....

Simply put, the ideas that you have on how to run bauer, would put them in the shitter after five years and would have to sell. The Apx is not a to in a vapor graphics package.

Okay yes they gave it the alive composite that the top end supremes have, but, how the hell does this change what the skate is in anyway? They just did what they could to make it as lite as possible. Foootbed, tongue, liner, fit, are different then through to... almost everyone loved the feel over the liner on the 40, the liner on the Apx feels just like it, while the to feels like the 20.

Tldr, the Apx is not the to.

[DarkStar50 679]

Why would their strategy line up with mine? My out of the box thinking is always design first, finances second. They run a business where the rule of thumb will always be, finances first, design second.

I don’t know if this analogy can be applied here, but you can be the Toyota of the world where three designers have to work on 10 different models every year, or the Rolls Royce of the world with three designers who only have to work on two models every 5 years, plus a million options where no expense is spared. Toyota will always be more financially successful, but RR’s prestige will outweigh any financial success of Toyota by a mile.

The irony is that Bauer can afford to go into the RR direction because their skate patents cover a lot of ground, so not a lot of room left for the competition. That’s why they probably don’t sweat it too much and simply change the graphics on a T1 and call it an APX, or add a black holder and all of a sudden it’s a limited edition.

If you’re going to do a limited edition you really need to concentrate on actual editions which customers would admire or let them actually voice their opinions on what they would like to see. For example many people don’t want to get customs or live somewhere where there is no access to a proper shop with custom options, so how about making a limited edition which actually makes more sense where standard options might be: double stitching, longer tongue, longest possible holder that a boot can take, higher stifness, maybe even ¼ sizes. Instead of an ugly black holder and a small print.

This brings me back to my original question, do they want to dictate the direction or do they want some input on the direction, so they can avoid some obvious mistakes like the purple holder on One90 model.

Cheers.

Regarding the first highlight, how do you know this for fact? You don't. But then you also wouldn't know that Bauer finances, or spends, more on RD & D than all their competition combined. So continue your assumptions because I know the guys at Bauer are getting a good laugh reading them.

As for the second highlight, Bauer is way closer to RR in so many ways than Toyota, that you might want to think that analogy over again. But, then no one here expects you to.

Just let us know when you are ready to come out from behind the curtain so Dorothy can find her way back home to Kansas again.

[zebra_steve 11]

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/Index.php?/files/file/103-2011-bauer-catalogue/

Skates- For 2011, Bauer has revamped the Vapor line. The top skate for them this year will be the Bauer Vapor APX (pronounced apex.) Expanding on the 3d-lasted Alive composite concept, they are going with a tech-driven skate. The HydraMax liner that debuted with the X:60 has been slightly tweaked - it is a bit softer this time around. Also, Total Edge Comfort has been added to the edge of the boot. The tongue also has been tweaked - it now has a new lacebite protector that is somewhat embedded in the tongue. Another feature is the footbed - the edges of the toecap actually fold up and hugs the toecap so that the skater doesn't feel the actual toecap.

Does this mean that the skates will feel a quarter size smaller or is the boot being made longer and the toe box wider to accommodate the foam wrap?

[skyscrape 5]

Does this mean that the skates will feel a quarter size smaller or is the boot being made longer and the toe box wider to accommodate the foam wrap?

I second this question! Any Bauer reps know the answer?

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Rubo - the only problem with pros is that they are creatures of habit - they want something that just works, and therefore, aren't the best to test new concepts/technology. More often than not it is something they have familiarity with. Having testers with open minds rather than ones who want what they skated in 10 years ago is more beneficial.

Regardless, let's move on.

Zebra/skyscrape - it's a thin flap. Nothing that will change sizing.

[skyscrape 5]

Zebra/skyscrape - it's a thin flap. Nothing that will change sizing.

Thank you sir!

[raganblink 82]

Pros are creatures of habits because they find something that they love and don't want anything else and usually won't allow to try anything out, or if they do they think to themselves its different and don't try it out objectively.

For instance, with pants, there are a bunch of guys I know who have worn tacklas for 20 years. Crappy model too. They wont change to anything bc they're used to it. Same reason you see a bunch of old broken down tacks and supremes but will do whatever it takes to keep them not bc they are poor or whatever but bc they had them forever and won't change... cuz it worked for him. The pros are the worst in terms of getting latest and greatest to get an edge, and a lot do... but the ones that don't bc they are comfortable with what they got.

[nicholus.h 0]

I think you nailed it, only in a much broader sense, they want something that “WORKS” and the second key word here is “HABIT” which interconnects to the “WORKS” Habit is something that is proven and more importantly consistently “WORKS” If new stuff doesn’t work for them, it means that it’s not better then the old stuff, otherwise in a industry of performance why wouldn’t you want to improve your performance and switch over.

If you drove an old Lancia which has a balance of everything so you can throw it into any situation and it will deliver results. Or you drove a Mustang which is good at only one thing - straight line drag racing. Which one would you choose if your life (in this case hockey career) depended on it?

What we really want is a Lancia but with Carbon fiber body and all of the other new technological advances, yet mechanically it’s still must maintain the overall balance and spirit of Lancia.

As for testers I would assemble a group of people where the majority are the most close mined skaters you can find, because if you can make something that will work for them, it’s a much easier task after that with open mined people. So what you need is a mix of 70% close mined, 20% open minded young guys, and probably 10% of somebody whose’ completely out of the box and lives on different wavelength, for example Alex Kovalev.

Cheers.

This is silly. Close-minded people will never give you honest feedback. What's the point?

[fiimb 1]

I don't want to get too involved in this dispute between members, but this whole thing is starting to sound like a witch hunt regardless of who the faulty party is.

At this point, it doesn't matter what Rubo says, he's already been tried, convicted, and he's just waiting for the hanging. Its kinda nasty to look at.

I say this because you guys are using your expertise for this argument rather than discussing the products at hand.

Anyways, I've been wanting to ask if anyone knows if the APX or the 7.0 will have more volume than the x60? this was a small rumour I heard and the big reason I couldn't switch into the x60s

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

APX fit me volume-wise when X:60 did not.

[troy 12]

This is silly. Close-minded people will never give you honest feedback. What's the point?

But in Rubo's example these close-minded people are being paid to give their feedback on the product, which would presumptively be honest. By building a skate that a close-minded person likes then you would have something more along revolutionary as opposed to evolutionary lines.

[skyscrape 5]

APX fit me volume-wise when X:60 did not.

I was a touch over the pencil test in 60's but after break in almost swim in my one95's. I like the sound of this. APX may be the way for me.

[sebseb 0]

APX fit me volume-wise when X:60 did not.

I really don't like how they tend to make the new lines a bit bigger. For me the X:60 volume wise are perfect. I have skinny feet. Increasing the volume would mean a premature break down for one with no need for volume. If you need volume go for the Supremes, I don't, what am I going to do with these high volume Vapors and customs is not an option for an already overpriced pair of skates. I am really a Bauer whore, I won't hide it, but for this kind of cash a think you can get custom CCM. You don't need the latest tech and is no use to you if the skate doesn't fit your feet.

[skyscrape 5]

I really don't like how they tend to make the new lines a bit bigger. For me the X:60 volume wise are perfect. I have skinny feet. Increasing the volume would mean a premature break down for one with no need for volume. If you need volume go for the Supremes, I don't, what am I going to do with these high volume Vapors and customs is not an option for an already overpriced pair of skates. I am really a Bauer whore, I won't hide it, but for this kind of cash a think you can get custom CCM. You don't need the latest tech and is no use to you if the skate doesn't fit your feet.

Vapor 7.0 fit the same as the 60's and are the new vapors. Everything I have read about the APX on here is that is considered a stand alone skate. So you still have the option of the new vapor line. Price wise I think the 7.0 will be 599 and the apx will be the price of a total one.

[zebra_steve 11]

I really don't like how they tend to make the new lines a bit bigger. For me the X:60 volume wise are perfect. I have skinny feet. Increasing the volume would mean a premature break down for one with no need for volume. If you need volume go for the Supremes, I don't, what am I going to do with these high volume Vapors and customs is not an option for an already overpriced pair of skates. I am really a Bauer whore, I won't hide it, but for this kind of cash a think you can get custom CCM. You don't need the latest tech and is no use to you if the skate doesn't fit your feet.

If the APX is in the same price stratosphere as the TO then I can probably get two pair of custom CCM's for the $$$ I would have to drop on one pair of Custom Bauer's.... I may need to look into that now that I think about it a little... maybe even get two pair if I can swing the cash. I really want to try to stay in a Bauer skate, but I'm open to all manufacturers if I have to go custom... The stock last really is moot at that point.

[fiimb 1]

Vapor 7.0 fit the same as the 60's and are the new vapors. Everything I have read about the APX on here is that is considered a stand alone skate. So you still have the option of the new vapor line. Price wise I think the 7.0 will be 599 and the apx will be the price of a total one.

so if i understand this correctly, the APX and the 7.0 fit differently? i'm only concerned instep wise.

[tide94 0]

Hi, what would the equivalent of he x40 be? 5.0? 4.0? etc..