Greatest European born player?

[phonak 0]

Before you go opening mouth can we see some of your "evidence" claiming

"I've seen some info that they're quite equal in facing the opposing teams best defenders"

Difference is that he said is was one way while I questioned where he got the data since I've seen otherwise. I've read it in another thread on another board so I don't know how much truth it holds, hence why I asked him to back up what he just said. If he could provide some data to back up the statement we could all put it to rest. Since Forsberg starting playing 15 years ago I find it hard to believe anybody remembering exactly what forward facing what defenders, and it certainly wouldn't prove anything. I've claimed that I've seen it somewhere, not that I knew that it was that way. IF I was certain that I was right I would never have asked him to back his statement up, I would just have told him he was wrong since I've seen data saying otherwise and then provided the data.

Now if you want me to find the thread I'll search for it and add it later, but like I already mentioned it's hard to tell how trustworthy the source is.

[ibeck 38]

Thinking Hasek just because he is still playing professionally in Europe. Otherwise I would say Lidstrom.

[flaming_june 2]

It's not a postion where you have to skate and keep up, otherwise he wouldn't still be playing.

Without counting the greats that didn't play in the NHL due to being in the Soviet Union, the best player without a doubt is Jagr. You can say Lidstrom but no one was a game changer like Jagr. Lidstrom is just very very good at everything, but cannot win a game for you when both teams are at an impass; Jagr could. If you count in all attributes: mental, technical, physical, no one can beat Jagr in all three major categories.

[ibeck 38]

It's not a postion where you have to skate and keep up, otherwise he wouldn't still be playing.

It's still a very hard position to be good at for a very long time.

[psh 25]

When they were on different lines, Sakic faced the number one defense pairing most of the time.

Sakic, himself, remembered it differently in the interviews and profiles published around his retirement and after his 600th goal. In fact, after his 600th goal I remember an SI profile in which he said that Forsberg deserves much of the credit because he generally drew the tougher defensive assignment. I also recall playoff interviews with Scotty Bowman and Ken Hitchcock describing similar defensive strategies, as well.

Of course, this whole line of argument should be taken with a large grain of salt. Defensive strategy is fluid and depends upon who has the last line change and matters as obvious as which line seems to be hot on a given day.

[TeamHonda401 54]

I think longevity plays a bigger role in this matter. If we only went on points per game average, Eric Lindros and Forsberg would be hands down hall of fame players. If you look at their careers as a whole, they might make it in the hall of great, but not the hall of fame. Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr, and Peter Stastny are all hands down hall of famers IMHO.

[chippa13 1844]

Is Peter Stastny not in? I would think the second leading scorer in the 80's behind Gretzky should be a lock.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Tretiak never played in the NHL..

Playing in the NHL was not one of the stated criteria in the OP. When Tretiak played, he was widely considered to be the best goalie in the world. This was in the days of Ken Dryden and Bernie Parent, among others.

[DarkStar50 679]

Is Peter Stastny not in? I would think the second leading scorer in the 80's behind Gretzky should be a lock.

Asked and answered, your Honor.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=P199803#photo

[RadioGaGa 162]

Playing in the NHL was not one of the stated criteria in the OP

Nuggy...I was the OP. For the purposees of this discusion, I was asking about European born NHLers....now, if you are talking straight Europens...there is a whole bunch that would qualify:

Thikinov, Kharlamov...pretty much everyone from the '72 Soviets.

Someone called Forsberg the "Greatest European ever". So, let's discuss...

Forsberg?

Jagr?

Kurri?

Salming?

Lidstrom?

Sundin?

Naslund?

???

...Just throwing names out there. Who do you think is the greatest European born NHLer ever?

Personally...I would say Lidstrom.

[17D1998 1]

Why is it that no one mentioned Teemu Selanne? Might not be THE best euro but top 10 at least

[t6lock 24]

Forsberg?

Jagr?

Kurri?

Salming?

Lidstrom?

Sundin?

Naslund?

I hope you're referring to Mats Naslund.... being a long time Vancouver fan I really hope it's not Markus :P

I am going with Jagr because he had a better mullet than any north american

[mattzilla 0]

Lidstrom has been one of the top 1-3 dmen in the league for how many years? offensively? defensively? what cant the guy do? and he's still doing it.

If Forsberg would've stayed in one piece, I think we would be talking about one of the best ever, period.

[Chadd 916]

Why is it that no one mentioned Teemu Selanne? Might not be THE best euro but top 10 at least

No Bure either and he was amazing when he wasn't injured.

[Drewhunz 3]

Is Peter Stastny not in? I would think the second leading scorer in the 80's behind Gretzky should be a lock.

Check the 2nd post. I voted ANY Stastny. If it weren't for them, I won't say the list wouldn't be possible, but it would be lacking some brave dudes.

[phonak 0]

Check the 2nd post. I voted ANY Stastny. If it weren't for them, I won't say the list wouldn't be possible, but it would be lacking some brave dudes.

I'd say Salming had a big part of Europeans coming over and playing in the NHL

[Drewhunz 3]

Borje didn't defect from a communist country though.

[DarkStar50 679]

Salming was the first highly successful European trained player to make a mark in the NHL. He joined the Leafs in 1973. Stan Mikita moved to Canada as a youngster. He was trained as a Canadian hockey player through the Juniors system of the Chicago Blackhawks. The three Stastny brothers were an incredible force for the Nordiques. They could dominate an NHL game in the 80s.

[phonak 0]

Borje didn't defect from a communist country though.

True, but he made the life easier for all players to follow because he changed the view of european players.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Nuggy...I was the OP. For the purposees of this discusion, I was asking about European born NHLers....now, if you are talking straight Europens...there is a whole bunch that would qualify:

Duly noted, I thought I had read the OP carefully but clearly I did not.

BTW, where is Stan Mikita on the list ? My mom lived in Chicago in the 60s, and he was a living god. When I was a child we drove by a restaurant he had somewhere in Florida, and she immediately told my dad to do a U-turn. She took us in there, knocked on the door of the head office and Makita was there. He signed some glossy 8x10s for my sister and I. I wish Mom had taken a picture. For years that photo hung on the door of my closet.

edit: OK, I see Mikita mentioned a couple of times, but I was searching for a different (wrong) spelling. Two bads in one thread.

[$m0k3 0]

If Bure's career wasn't so short because of injuries he would be the obvious choice IMO.