So I think my rec league team hates me...

[technophile 0]

Let's first clearly state that I know I am not good at hockey. I started playing about 6 years ago, I've never had any kind of formal training aside from about a year of a weekly Learn To Play program, and I'm never making a midget travel team, let alone The Show. I play because I love the game, I try to improve week to week, etc.

This was never a problem in Austin; there were a half dozen divisions in that league, and I naturally settled to roughly my ability level. Even more important, everyone there knew it was a rec league; we all make stupid mistakes, have a rough night, whatever, and the locker room afterwards was always a fun place to be. I made a lot of friends there.

Now I'm in Utah (near SLC) and playing in what was described to me as a "relaxed" rec league. I am definitely the ... least strong ... skater on my team. Everyone on my team is at minimum an ex-travel player; several of them played up through college. We had a guy who played a couple games in the NHL sub in a few games against us. Long story short, the level of play is a bit higher than I'm used to or had been led to expect.

That said, I know my job as a defenseman, I hustle my ass off, and I do have a couple shifts a game where I feel like I'm a positive addition to the team. Last game I made a nice keep in at the blue line, put a shot on net that rebounded right into the high slot, and later in the same shift took a (very nice) drop pass from a winger that I very nearly bounced in off a scrum in front of the net. I broke up a couple 2-on-1s and 1-on-1s (against better skaters than myself), although I also caused or gave up a roughly equal number.

We're about 6 games into the season; we've lost all but one game. I've been present at every game, but there are a lot of guys who have missed a lot of games; we've never had more than 10 skaters show for any game. (Most of the other teams have at least 13 each game, and often more.) I know that frustrates people; hell, I like to win hockey games too.

At the end of the game, we skated back to our net to start the handshake line. Two guys on my own team refused to shake my hand. Not super obviously, but they shook hands with the guy in front of me, didn't raise their hands as they passed me, and then resumed shaking hands. Most guys aren't jerks or anything, they still pass to me, etc, but if these two are acting like that I assume at least some of the others are thinking similar things.

I dunno. Am I being oversensitive? Are guys just frustrated at losing, or is the fact that I never played organized hockey some kind of transgression here? Is this just how it is in northern (i.e. more "serious") leagues and I should just suck it up, go to a hockey camp and learn to suck less? Is my showing up to games better than... not? I mean, I assume I should basically find a new league for next season (not a problem, there are about 4 within driving distance, one of which has skill-based divisions), but is it worth finishing up this season?

(Also, if the answer is "dude, cry more you big baby", let er rip, I'm just trying to figure out the social differences here. If I'm being a wuss that's fine. :))

[wrangler 157]

You may be oversensitive if you let it affect you too much, but that behavior (not shaking hands) is definitely rude, and indicative of an attitude.

Players with any sense, and/or decency, should be giving you constructive advice and coaching to help you improve. If you're listening, showing up every game and doing your best, then you're doing your job. It sounds like you'd probably fit better at a lower level, but nobody's asking you to leave. It seems most of them want or need you there, since you're still getting passes. Soldier on.

[SouthpawTRK 1]

Sorry to hear that a couple of guys on your team were being a bit rude and insensitive; definitely doesn't create a fun atmosphere for sure.

I would not presume that by the actions of a the two jackasses on your team that the whole team does not like you.

I don't think that you are being oversensitive; but rather more sensitive than some of the other players on the team. Keep in mind that the rest of the team is not perfect, they are going to make mistakes; just as you are going to make mistakes.

I've played on teams that have players such as the two on your team. They were extra critical on myself and the other newbies; but never acknowledged that they made costly mistakes when it came to turn overs, staying out for extra long shifts, and taking idiotic penalties.

Perhaps talk to the captain and see if he can work with you on honing your skills and becoming more of an asset to the team. Since you mentioned that you are not one of the stronger players on the team, maybe you should see if you can play as a forward instead of playing on defense.

Many times, teams will put their strongest players on defense and pair players that are less skilled with better players on the forward line.

I would recommend that you finish up the season with the team; finish what you started and don't let those two guys get the best of you.

[fatwabbit 93]

i'd say stick with it. There are players out there who arent the Crosby's but they give it 100% everytime and are committed to the team.

the two guys that did that are just being douches... as Wrangler said, they should have the decency to give you constructive advice and trying to help you improve.

I was in similar shoes a few years ago. Never been coached, just played for the love of the sport. Got selected to play for the state team, but when you looked at the squad, it was filled with people who have played organised hockey for years. Guys who had played together on the same team/line for a long time, and people who were faster, stronger, and overall more skilled than I was. I was a little bit apprehensive playing, knowing that I might have been out of my league, but they guys gave me a lot of support and advice. They kept telling me to give it 100%, and do what I needed to do. The best 'pat on the back' came from my goalie, who told me that I had blocked a LOT of shots and made his job easier. Another guy told me that my job was to prevent goals, and if at the end of my shift the other team didnt score, then I had done my job well enough.

The guys on your team should not tell you to play for another team, instead they should be trying to help you improve... positioning, passing, calling for the puck etc....

[Chadd 916]

If there's a better situation available, there's no reason not to jump on it. If there isn't a better situation available, just stick it out and do what you do until you can get out on your terms.

[jds 20]

What, are the other guys on your team playing for the rent money? This is supposed to be fun recreation. It's not your job. If those two guys take it that seriously, they are missing the point. Don't pay any attention to them. Play your game and enjoy yourself. You have the right to play-say that word again, p-l-a-y. It's just a game, a diversion. Enjoy yourself and let the two who don't shake your hands continue to live as classless dicks. Don't let them ruin your fun.

[illkins9 0]

you might be reading into more then what is really there, its a fact that when your a new guy and especially if you feel like your not living up to expectations others might have about you or your just not performing well enough for you to think that people dont like you or whatever and sometime you might be right but 95% of the time its purely just what your thinking and the guys didnt shake your hand cause your the new guy they dont really know or whatever other many reasons there could be. ill tell ya this tho, if you are out there playing your butt off and not making bad plays especially bad mental errors or b eing out of position especially as a D guy then no ne should ever have an issue with your play. im at a piont in my hockey (unpaid) career that I will always take a guy that may not be the best player but if he is giving it his all, plays smart and hard, pays his fees on time, isnt a butthole and shows up for every game then ill take him almost every time over some junior gretz that plays when he wants and is a pita. good luck to ya bro and i bet your reading way jore into then is really there, oet us know hw things go for ya in the future

[technophile 0]

Thanks for all the responses. :) Unfortunately, this league is really disorganized (as evidenced by some teams having 4 full lines and some struggling to get 10 skaters to show up). We don't really have a "captain" per se, official or unofficial, for me to discuss it with. There are pick-up times and stick and pucks, although none of them are really great times for me; I was doing a regular stick and puck, I'd like to start that up again.

I'll stick with it for this season, maybe try one of the other leagues next year. At least I know I'm not crazy. :)

[wrangler 157]

Thanks for all the responses. :) Unfortunately, this league is really disorganized (as evidenced by some teams having 4 full lines and some struggling to get 10 skaters to show up). We don't really have a "captain" per se, official or unofficial, for me to discuss it with. There are pick-up times and stick and pucks, although none of them are really great times for me; I was doing a regular stick and puck, I'd like to start that up again.

I'll stick with it for this season, maybe try one of the other leagues next year. At least I know I'm not crazy. :)

That's a separate issue, and we didn't really get into it.

Good luck.

[technophile 0]

Fair enough. ;)

[Law Goalie 147]

No reason not to just ask the two idiots (and anyone else who happens to be around) whether they think you're a hindrance to the team. The worst that'll happen is that they'll get it off their chests, and you'll know what you already know. The best thing that could happen is that your team may start to take every man at his own worth and figure out the best roles for each and all. For example, if you find yourself getting exposed against teams that skate and cycle really well, maybe you're the guy who camps out in front of the net permanently to box out and break up passes, and one of the forward drops down to help your other D break the cycle. Maybe they agree to pull you on the PP but have you at the bottom of the diamond on every PK.

Their real 'problem' (and make no mistake, they're total dicks) with you is probably not that they think you're a bad player, but that they believe you don't know you're a bad player, that you don't know your own weaknesses. Nobody really gets mad at a guy who plays hard within his means; people get furious when they see Spezza try to dangle guys at the offensive blueline, turn it over, and give up a game-losing odd-man rush not just because it happened, but because he should damn well know better. That line of reasoning goes all the way from pros to joes. Just telling those two goofs that you know you're not Ray Bourque will probably shut them up.

I used to play against a really, really talented goalie who just couldn't make good decisions when playing the puck. He had all the skills, but he would make idiotic choices. Despite singlehandedly winning games his team had no business being in, they would get incredibly, unreasonably frustrated when his screw-ups would cost them goals even in games they later won. We also shared a shinny game, and after one of them, he was talking about leaving the team: he'd heard grumblings about his puck-handling, how they'd be better without him, all kinds of BS. I asked him why he didn't just stop trying to play it forward -- just set the puck up for his D and leave it. That, it turned out, was problem solved. When his skaters wanted passes, they'd have to call for it; if not, they were coming all the way back for it.

And if you can find a good power-skating class, it'll do wonders in hours. The best thing I ever did as a kid was to spend my summers taking lessons from a figure-skating coach (usually in full goalie gear), and skating is always the thing that gets drilled most when I get some time with a goalie coach now.

[Tikkanen 1]

The solution is to find a rink or a league that is at your skill level. How old are you? And are there other rinks in your area? You don't belong on that team and some of the players are telling you that by being jerks. The good news is that there is a team that fits your skill level, it's up to you to do the leg work and play on a team, in a league that you belong on. The guys on your team may not have paid league fees to be your coach, they might just want to play and win some games.

[shotty 7]

if some dude on my own team refused to shake my hand after a game, i'd call him on it in the room right after... you dont have to stand up in front of the whole room and do it, it can be accomplished discreetly. from my experience, everyone PAYS the same to be there. if there are some issues, they best be aired out asap so everyone can figure out which direction to go. if you're 6 games in and already feeling like an outsider, and likewise, if your teammates are already showing you attitude, it's time to act on it.

[technophile 0]

No reason not to just ask the two idiots (and anyone else who happens to be around) whether they think you're a hindrance to the team. The worst that'll happen is that they'll get it off their chests, and you'll know what you already know. The best thing that could happen is that your team may start to take every man at his own worth and figure out the best roles for each and all. For example, if you find yourself getting exposed against teams that skate and cycle really well, maybe you're the guy who camps out in front of the net permanently to box out and break up passes, and one of the forward drops down to help your other D break the cycle. Maybe they agree to pull you on the PP but have you at the bottom of the diamond on every PK.

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I know a lot of the frustation isn't really directed at me, but it's easy when you're losing/frustrated to get irritated with people you feel like may not be pulling their weight.

Their real 'problem' (and make no mistake, they're total dicks) with you is probably not that they think you're a bad player, but that they believe you don't know you're a bad player, that you don't know your own weaknesses. Nobody really gets mad at a guy who plays hard within his means; people get furious when they see Spezza try to dangle guys at the offensive blueline, turn it over, and give up a game-losing odd-man rush not just because it happened, but because he should damn well know better. That line of reasoning goes all the way from pros to joes. Just telling those two goofs that you know you're not Ray Bourque will probably shut them up.

I've been pretty upfront about my experience, and one of the first things I tell whoever I'm partnered with each game (we've never had enough people game to game to have set lines, which is one of the things I think is frustrating guys) is that I know I have a lot to learn, if they have any suggestions or I'm doing something dumb just let me know.

FWIW, the two guys are good friends with each other, also play D, and invariably try to partner with each other. Which I'm fine with, but (see above about lines) doesn't always happen. They're better skaters than I am, but as far as I can tell I'm actually better positionally; I am very rarely the D out of position on a 2-on-1 against us, I almost always am the one defending it because I anticipate my partner pinching or getting beat and get my ass moving. Last game both of them were out together and managed to give up a rebound goal with both of them standing within arm's reach of the scorer, and no other offensive players below the top of the circles. Which is to say, while I clearly have less experience, it's not the case that they basically need to "take me in hand" and teach me the game from scratch; it's just that my skating is not as smooth (and I fall down a few times a game, usually when I am just barely out of position and have to reach), my vision is not quite as good as the better players on the team (I'm still trying to break the C-league habit of just clearing the puck to center when I'm pressured but have time to make a pass, instead of finding the open guy -- because invariably there is one), etc. I generally pass before making a move, but where a lot of the other guys do it the other way around.

I've also said several times that while I'm used to D, I'll play anywhere. If they want to stick me on a wing and have me play F3, I'll do my damndest at that position. But most of the guys prefer forward; so far they've said stay back on D.

And if you can find a good power-skating class, it'll do wonders in hours. The best thing I ever did as a kid was to spend my summers taking lessons from a figure-skating coach (usually in full goalie gear), and skating is always the thing that gets drilled most when I get some time with a goalie coach now.

Yeah, I want to take a power skating class, I'm just waiting for the next one locally I think. I also plan on doing some kind of week-long hockey camp next year (something like http://www.heartlandhockey.com/index2.htm); this is the first year I've had the ready cash to be able to do that.

The solution is to find a rink or a league that is at your skill level. How old are you? And are there other rinks in your area? You don't belong on that team and some of the players are telling you that by being jerks. The good news is that there is a team that fits your skill level, it's up to you to do the leg work and play on a team, in a league that you belong on. The guys on your team may not have paid league fees to be your coach, they might just want to play and win some games.

I'm 34, started playing ice about 6-7 years ago with about 4 years of roller before that. There are several rinks in the area; the one closest to me is the one I signed up for, but it has a single division with 9 teams, players of all skill levels mixed together. But there's virtually zero organization, which team you end up is basically either who you know (and since I moved here in July I knew noone) or at the league administrator's more or less random selection (although his team is coincidentally the one that always has the most guys show up).

There's a rink in SLC proper that has a league with 4 divisions, from total newbie division to ex-pro division; I think I'm going to try that one next year and see if the Intermediate division fits better. It's a ~35 minute drive instead of a ~20, though, which is why I tried the other one first. :)

[pittu 15]

I kind of see both sides of this. Normally I'd say that you are realistic in your abilities, enjoy playing, give it 100% and that should be good enough for your teammates.

That said, the team I play on now (intermediate level beer league) has one player who should clearly by playing at the novice level. She cannot catch a pass, cannot skate at a level that allows her to be involved with the play. I still pass to her when breaking out of the zone, but it is always a turnover. There is a lot of silent grumbling on the bench. She takes long shifts (since she doesnt really ever get tired :) ), and never volunteers to sit a shift in tight games....all of that is ok, she paid her entry fee and we want her to have fun and get better.

I'd be lying if I said that I appreciate playing the entire night on a penalty kill. It is physically tiring especially when you only get 10 guys showing up. Its pretty dam hard on the goalie too.

Theres been about 4 games this year when we had the players to match the other team. But instead of being a fun, close game, we got blown out because we're playing 4 on 5 for three quarters of the night...

[MatthewRoach7 130]

I would not look to hard into it. I am also playing on a rec team that has only won a game out of the 10 that we have played. Some time after the games I get quiet in the locker room after the game going over oppertunities that I could have played better in my head and guys have asked if I was pissed or something. I think the best thing you can do is ask.

[hockeyherb 1]

There's a rink in SLC proper that has a league with 4 divisions, from total newbie division to ex-pro division; I think I'm going to try that one next year and see if the Intermediate division fits better. It's a ~35 minute drive instead of a ~20, though, which is why I tried the other one first. :)

Sorry you had to move away from Austin - it is a great league. We'll be starting a new one at Cedar Park Center next week too.

What level were you playing in Austin? If you were in C or B2 I'd recommend starting with the Novice division at the new rink. It's always easier to move up than to suffer a season in the wrong division (as you're finding out might be the case). Intermediate in some cities is still pretty good hockey, like B1 or A for Austin.

[Tikkanen 1]

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I know a lot of the frustation isn't really directed at me, but it's easy when you're losing/frustrated to get irritated with people you feel like may not be pulling their weight.

I've been pretty upfront about my experience, and one of the first things I tell whoever I'm partnered with each game (we've never had enough people game to game to have set lines, which is one of the things I think is frustrating guys) is that I know I have a lot to learn, if they have any suggestions or I'm doing something dumb just let me know.

FWIW, the two guys are good friends with each other, also play D, and invariably try to partner with each other. Which I'm fine with, but (see above about lines) doesn't always happen. They're better skaters than I am, but as far as I can tell I'm actually better positionally; I am very rarely the D out of position on a 2-on-1 against us, I almost always am the one defending it because I anticipate my partner pinching or getting beat and get my ass moving. Last game both of them were out together and managed to give up a rebound goal with both of them standing within arm's reach of the scorer, and no other offensive players below the top of the circles. Which is to say, while I clearly have less experience, it's not the case that they basically need to "take me in hand" and teach me the game from scratch; it's just that my skating is not as smooth (and I fall down a few times a game, usually when I am just barely out of position and have to reach), my vision is not quite as good as the better players on the team (I'm still trying to break the C-league habit of just clearing the puck to center when I'm pressured but have time to make a pass, instead of finding the open guy -- because invariably there is one), etc. I generally pass before making a move, but where a lot of the other guys do it the other way around.

I've also said several times that while I'm used to D, I'll play anywhere. If they want to stick me on a wing and have me play F3, I'll do my damndest at that position. But most of the guys prefer forward; so far they've said stay back on D.

Yeah, I want to take a power skating class, I'm just waiting for the next one locally I think. I also plan on doing some kind of week-long hockey camp next year (something like http://www.heartland....com/index2.htm); this is the first year I've had the ready cash to be able to do that.

I'm 34, started playing ice about 6-7 years ago with about 4 years of roller before that. There are several rinks in the area; the one closest to me is the one I signed up for, but it has a single division with 9 teams, players of all skill levels mixed together. But there's virtually zero organization, which team you end up is basically either who you know (and since I moved here in July I knew noone) or at the league administrator's more or less random selection (although his team is coincidentally the one that always has the most guys show up).

There's a rink in SLC proper that has a league with 4 divisions, from total newbie division to ex-pro division; I think I'm going to try that one next year and see if the Intermediate division fits better. It's a ~35 minute drive instead of a ~20, though, which is why I tried the other one first. :)

If you have a division in mind I'd advise you play 1 below that. Earn your way up. I look at it like I've earned my place on teams by my years of work I've put into getting better at hockey. Every once in awhile a beginner is placed on a team I'm on. The last guy was constantly told what to do by people so I finally just said that the guy was a beginner. You could coach him for 60 minutes and he's not going to get better in an intermediate league. There is a beginner league and that's where he belongs until he earns the right to play in the middle leagues. For whatever reason these rinks feel the need to force feed players who don't belong and it's not good for the team or the player. A 1 division league sounds like a nightmare.

[technophile 0]

Sorry you had to move away from Austin - it is a great league. We'll be starting a new one at Cedar Park Center next week too.

Yeah, I saw that there are financial issues going on with the sale of Chap. I got the emails about the ones at CPC too and was sad; I played a C league game there about a year ago the afternoon before a Stars game and it was a great place to play.

What level were you playing in Austin? If you were in C or B2 I'd recommend starting with the Novice division at the new rink. It's always easier to move up than to suffer a season in the wrong division (as you're finding out might be the case). Intermediate in some cities is still pretty good hockey, like B1 or A for Austin.

Right on the edge of C/B2, so Novice is probably a good idea to start. From the description it sounds like I might fit Intermediate, but these guys clearly have different definitions than I'm used to.

[technophile 0]

We had our next game tonight so I thought I'd update. The whole team showed up for once, so we rolled 3 lines and actually ended up having a very fun game. Ended tied, but a lot of the frustration (definitely on my part, at least) seems to have dissipated. Handshakes all around, and I felt a lot more confident after the support in this thread; enough so that I had the confidence/patience to keep my head up and make two really good passes rather than panic-shooting, one of which resulted in a one-timer inches wide and the other in a goal.

So thanks everyone! I'm still not 100% sure this is the right league, although it is exciting playing with guys who can actually execute a one-timer (and the adrenaline rush of facing down a 1-on-1 with a guy who knows he's faster than me ) and I feel like I'm definitely improving in my hockey vision. We'll see how I feel by the end of the year, but at least I can keep in mind that playing my game is all I can do, and whatever mistakes I make, at least I skate hard every shift and do the best I can.

Even if I did knock a bouncing puck into my own net off my thigh.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

I've had the same thoughts at times, especially knowing that I'm easily the worst player in the league. I've found two things seems to make the guys respect me despite my deficiencies:

First and foremost: HUSTLE. This is easily the most important thing your teammates can see you doing. They WILL notice!

Second big thing: communicate. Always be talking, and always be sure to ask for suggestions. If your line gives up a goal, talk to your linemates and D-men (and often the goalie, since he has a pretty good view of things). Ask "where should I have been on that play?", etc. I find with my lack of experience (29 years old, been playing hockey for about 6 months now) the key is positioning.

And hey, the odd goal doesnt hurt either (I have three regular season goals EVER, and the guys seem to love it when I score! haha)

And if you think there may be some tension at times, poke a bit of fun at yourself. Don't give them a sob story, but like last night after the game somebody in the dressing room mentioned me scoring and I just laughed and said "Hey! It happens once in a while! I'll be due for another one in a few months, mark my words!"

[Chadd 916]

As long as you're a good guy and put forth effort, most teams will accept you. If you are the least talented guy on the team, you should at least make an effort to be the hardest working one.

[IPv6Freely 2100]

As long as you're a good guy and put forth effort, most teams will accept you. If you are the least talented guy on the team, you should at least make an effort to be the hardest working one.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[zubby 4]

We had our next game tonight so I thought I'd update. The whole team showed up for once, so we rolled 3 lines and actually ended up having a very fun game. Ended tied, but a lot of the frustration (definitely on my part, at least) seems to have dissipated. Handshakes all around, and I felt a lot more confident after the support in this thread; enough so that I had the confidence/patience to keep my head up and make two really good passes rather than panic-shooting, one of which resulted in a one-timer inches wide and the other in a goal. So thanks everyone! I'm still not 100% sure this is the right league, although it is exciting playing with guys who can actually execute a one-timer (and the adrenaline rush of facing down a 1-on-1 with a guy who knows he's faster than me ) and I feel like I'm definitely improving in my hockey vision. We'll see how I feel by the end of the year, but at least I can keep in mind that playing my game is all I can do, and whatever mistakes I make, at least I skate hard every shift and do the best I can. Even if I did knock a bouncing puck into my own net off my thigh.

Your fine bud keep playing and having fun and as long as your giving an effort don't sweat it. Too many guys think they are soo much better than the worst player on the team when in reality they arent. I played professionally and trying to play rec in even an "A" league for me is no fun not becuase of the level of competion but the attitudes. I see alot of these guys even really good players take it way to serious and take their frustrations out on teamates. Me I like competitve play but I like to enjoy the game and I want others to enjoy it as well. Maybe I don't have their persepective because I am at peace with where my hockey career ended. Maybe those who dream of being a pro want to live it so bad that they will ruin the fun of a rec league for thier fellow teammates? I hope you continue to enjoy playing because in the end thats all it really comes down to. It sounds like you enjoy the competion as well and if you feel you can handle that level than I would say stick with it. Good luck!

[CaptainFantastik 0]

Glad to hear the situation has improved for you. It can be tough going to a new area and new rink where you're unfamiliar with the locals/regulars and the intricacies of the local rec league. I've done that a few times myself. Just don't let any of this stuff spoil your enthusiasm for the game and for continuing to try and get better. I've got a guy or 2 on my team that love to coach from the bench (and the ice) and point out other guys' errors and yet they mishandle the puck, get caught pinching and/or over-committing, and turn the puck over as much as anybody. Just let that stuff go in one ear and out the other.

If you were on my team i'd offer to do as many stick and puck sessions as you'd like to help work on things. Just keep trying and don't take it too seriously. And if you have to maybe try a different league or different league, then so be it. Rec league hockey is supposed to be fun.