Initial Thoughts Bauer TotalONE NXG Initial Thoughts

[Composite Freak 0]

I was wondering if anyone has been experiencing problems with the tendon guard. Mine have recently cracked and I am reluctant to skate on them, thinking it will snap off. My friend's snapped off completely during a game. Does anyone know if Bauer warranties them for this problem?

My NXG tendon guard shattered from a D clearing pass, of course out of warranty.

So I am back using my original Total One's which are weathered and beat up from 6 or 7 time per week use, but nothing cracked or broken. If anyone wants a picture of my tendon guard let me know, it is completely shattered. Kind of surprising.

[Rpmangual 3]

Funny I was just logging on here to post about the same thing! My left tendon guard was hit by a puck on a cross ice pass. Exploded! It's hanging on just by the liner now. These are way out of warranty. Just upsetting as they are virtually useless now. I was curious if some mlx or mako tendon guards can be riveted on somehow??? Let me know if you come up with anything. Maybe a roller hockey conversion is in order at this point.

[flip12 714]

Could a shoe repair shop fix that? I'm picturing some plastic enclosed in leather, somehow attached to whatever part of your tendon guard nub there still may be. It might look a bit mangled, but at least it could get the skate back up and going again.

[Kessel'sOversizedSuit 18]

Don't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here.

This year I took my first step into highend skates with the NXG. I'm in my mid 30s and only picked up the game 5 years ago, so I never could justify highend skates to myself before, but this year I did. Enter the TO NXG.

Anyway, I've really liked them so far, but didn't really have an appreciation for what I was getting out of them until last night. I'm coaching my son's tyke team so I have opportunity to be out on the ice in a situation other than hard core playing hockey. So far I've been wearing the NXGs for everything as I work them in and get used to them. now that it's been about a month, and I'm mostly very happy (got some pain in my right foot, maybe lace bite, not sure what that is supposed to feel like), I decided I'd start using my old supremes for my son's practices, just so I don't have to sharpen the NXGs as often. my old skates are still more than fine and have fairly new step steel in them, so I figured, I may as well use them for coaching.

I expected that there'd be some difference, but nothing major. However, after being in exclusively the NXGs for the last month, my old One70s felt like heavy, clumsy tanks out there. My turns were more muted, and i really noticed the lack of stiffness (never thought I would), I was shocked. With every drill I was demonstrating, I noticed a drop in performance. I just could not cut as hard. I had to work harder. it was very noticeable and I did not expect that at all. Of course, now I'm ruined and will only buy highend skates from now one (same thing happened with sticks).

All that is to say that if, like me, you were on the fence about whether the high-end skates are worth it, they are. It's not just marketing hype. These puppies are F1 cars compared to my old Camrys.

[YesLanges 127]

Anybody else just ditch the tongue inserts altogether? I haven't had a chance to skate in them yet, but just lacing them up, even the Mid inserts restrict my forward ankle flexibility and knee bend. Having skated only in Langes for 15+ years, I like a real secure fit and maximum lateral stability and have no complaints with these NXGs there, but I see no advantage whatsoever in anything that limits forward ankle flexion...rather have full range of motion and no "help" from a stiff tongue than any extra mechanical energy transfer at the expense of less forward mobility and knee bend. They feel much less restrictive to me without any inserts and there's no lace bite worth mentioning. I gotta admit I'm also skeptical about the whole concept of the flexing tendon guard assisting your stride because it's not even in contact with your leg until full extension by which time you've already generated whatever force you're generating from your stride. In fact, I haven't found a single photo of anybody striding in these without plenty of air in between the tendon guard and the leg.

Mainly, though, I'd just like to know whether anybody else has ever ditched the tongue inserts altogether. (Thanks in advance for responses.)

(Just waiting for my Langes to come back with modern blades before I take them both to try them out together.)

[thorbs 2]

I use X-Stiff inserts -- never thought about taking them out.

[Biggzy 0]

Hey guys, first time posting here,

I'm having a bit of a skate problem. I've had the older model Bauer Supreme One55 for about 3 years or so (the ones pictured here http://www.hockeyboss.com/nikebauerskateone55senior.aspx) and the past week I've been getting ridiculous lace bite on my right foot. I assumed it was the tongue breaking down, looking at it, theres groves in the tongue from where the laces are tightended.

So tried some of the gel lace bite pads and they didn't really help. I figured I may as well get new skates since these were getting old anyways. It sucks thought cuz I'm very comfortable in my old skates aside from the lace bite problem.

I ended up getting the Bauer Supreme Total One NXG's and skated in them for the first time tonight. I'm not sure how I feel about them yet. Obviously I had some of the usual breaking in pain on the sides of my feet, but that was to be expected. The lacebite wasn't as bad but it still hurt quite a bit. I found the tongue really stiff and it would bother the front of my ankle every time I would bend over to skate hard. It wasn't the same lacebite pain but it just felt uncomfortable. I'm using the 'Mid' inserts that come with the skates. It feels like the tongue has no give at all. Should I give the inserts the boot? Even if I did that, it stills feels like a hard material for the tongue.

Another thing I noticed is that I feel like I don't have a lot of support on the upper part of my ankle. I feel as if I need to wrap tape around the skate at the top eyelet to get the right support.

I consider myself a pretty good skater but tonight I looked like I had never skated before. It also didn't help that the sharpening was awful, definitely have to get them sharpened again.

I don't know what to do. I don't wanna give up on the skates after only one game in them, especially since they were expensive. I just feel very awkward in them. Do I just need to 'break them in'? I don't remember feeling this awkward when I go the One55's a few years back but I did have some pain.

[YesLanges 127]

I haven't even skated in mine yet but I might be able to suggest something just based on what I've been doing to break them in at home before I take them to the ice. The shell is very stiff and if you're not feeling enough support, it might just be because they're too stiff to be able to tie them tight enough to wrap your ankle. Take them off and lace them up as tightly as you can all the way up, but especially the last 3 eyelets...if you do it right, the top eyelets should be only about an inch apart...and leave them like that for a day or two. As I mentioned above, I don't get the whole tongue insert thing and lacing them up with (Mid) inserts and without any inserts, I can get a much better ankle wrap without the inserts. That should help a lot and if they still feel wobbly after that, just tape them right above the boot and around the tendon guard. I know it conflicts with the whole "energy return" (and range of motion) principle, but as I also said above, I'm skeptical about that concept in the first place for the reason stated. You can always remove the tape if it doesn't feel right but if you're skating as badly as you describe because of support issues, "energy return" is a lot less important than stability right now. Taping these anywhere below the tendon guard isn't going to help at all...they're way too stiff for that...you're not going to get them any more snug that way than you can by lacing them as tight as possible. I'd definitely ditch the inserts for the next trial. (And if you mean you skated on them right out of the box, mine don't even have an edge on them, so that's another huge potential issue, obviously.) Please report back on this. Good luck.

[Biggzy 0]

I haven't even skated in mine yet but I might be able to suggest something just based on what I've been doing to break them in at home before I take them to the ice. The shell is very stiff and if you're not feeling enough support, it might just be because they're too stiff to be able to tie them tight enough to wrap your ankle. Take them off and lace them up as tightly as you can all the way up, but especially the last 3 eyelets...if you do it right, the top eyelets should be only about an inch apart...and leave them like that for a day or two. As I mentioned above, I don't get the whole tongue insert thing and lacing them up with (Mid) inserts and without any inserts, I can get a much better ankle wrap without the inserts. That should help a lot and if they still feel wobbly after that, just tape them right above the boot and around the tendon guard. I know it conflicts with the whole "energy return" (and range of motion) principle, but as I also said above, I'm skeptical about that concept in the first place for the reason stated. You can always remove the tape if it doesn't feel right but if you're skating as badly as you describe because of support issues, "energy return" is a lot less important than stability right now. Taping these anywhere below the tendon guard isn't going to help at all...they're way too stiff for that...you're not going to get them any more snug that way than you can by lacing them as tight as possible. I'd definitely ditch the inserts for the next trial. (And if you mean you skated on them right out of the box, mine don't even have an edge on them, so that's another huge potential issue, obviously.) Please report back on this. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I just did what you recommended and tied them as tight as I could.

I play tomorrow night, so I'll try a few things you mentioned. Getting rid of the inserts, taping my ankles, and getting them sharpened.

I hope they get better, I'd hate to think I blew a lot of money on some skates that weren't right for me.

Thanks again.

[DarkStar50 679]

Just curious for both you guys:

Did you buy your skates online or in a shop?

Did you get your skates baked?

[flip12 714]

I gotta admit I'm also skeptical about the whole concept of the flexing tendon guard assisting your stride because it's not even in contact with your leg until full extension by which time you've already generated whatever force you're generating from your stride. In fact, I haven't found a single photo of anybody striding in these without plenty of air in between the tendon guard and the leg.

You're simply overlooking the point of the flexible tendon guard. It's not there to assist in generating power in the forward flexed part of the push, it's there to move out of the way at the very end of that push so you can get the antipodal plantar flexion that maximizes the range of motion for the toe flick. It's a small point, but it adds up considerably since you get the bonus glide while skating (though most hockey players minimize/ignore it)...the analogy in speed skating is the clap skate, which lingered in research labs for almost a decade because skaters were skeptical, then the dutch started using them, started to dominate, and now all of the previous world records are insignificant and no one skates on anything but clap skates, which are different the same way as the flexing tendon guard: they allow a fuller range at the completion of a stroke. It's the same principle you defend (maximize dorsiflexion), just on the other end of the interval.

but I see no advantage whatsoever in anything that limits forward ankle flexion...rather have full range of motion and no "help" from a stiff tongue than any extra mechanical energy transfer at the expense of less forward mobility and knee bend.

In a few years, I think hockey skates will get completely rid of those range limiting "supportive" features that have plagued skates for at least a few decades, continually passed down as legacy artifacts.

[Biggzy 0]

Just curious for both you guys:

Did you buy your skates online or in a shop?

Did you get your skates baked?

I bought mine in a shop.

I didn't get them baked, but I'm wishing I would've.

I've been stressing all night about what to do. I'm so much more comfortable in my old skates, minus the horrible lacebite.

The Total One's are just so different. I'm hoping I just need to get used to them but the ankle area is what's concerning me. When I went to crossover in either direction last night it felt like the skate was more at angle than my leg was. Like when you see young kids who are just learning how to skate and it looks like they haven't tied them tight enough and when they cross over, their leg may be at a 45 degree angle let's say (not good with math) but their skate is at like 65 degree angle. It's like it's just barely on their foot. You wanna just go up to them and tie the skate tighter.

I don't know if that made any sense. This is just frustrating.

Maybe I should just get a new tongue for my old skates. I heard the A&R one on hockeymonkey isn't too great. Can anyone recommend a good tongue?

[Biggzy 0]

Quick update.

I think the waxed laces on my old skates may have been causing the lace bite. I tried on the laces from the Total Ones on my old One 55's and just walked around my room a bit, it felt a little better. I still had some pain but not nearly as bad.

I think I'm gonna try and play tonight on my old skates with the unwaxed laces, and if I don't have any pain I'll be most likely selling the Total One's if anyones interested. Size 7.5 D, bought on Saturday, used once Sunday.

Will update tonight.

[LoneStar77 25]

I'd venture a guess that getting them baked would help immensely. I'm sure someone else here can verify it, but I'm fairly confident that the Supreme TotalONE NXG skate material requires baking to mold to your foot.

[Biggzy 0]

I'd venture a guess that getting them baked would help immensely. I'm sure someone else here can verify it, but I'm fairly confident that the Supreme TotalONE NXG skate material requires baking to mold to your foot.

You're probably right. I went ahead and listed them on ebay anyway. I just can't picture myself getting comfortable in the skates.

I also went a half size smaller. I remember when I got my One55's a few years back the person helping me told me to go with the 8. She actually seemed like she knew what was going on. At the time they felt small, but after a few months they were perfect.

One the Total Ones I went with the 7.5 and I think they're just a hair too small.

Gonna try the unwaxed laces tonight on my old skates and pray it doesn't hurt. This really sucks.

[YesLanges 127]

Biggzy: Just go to any gym front desk and buy a set of square rubber hand-grips for a few bucks. Trim to size and put them under the tongue. That should do the trick. PM me your ebay ID or the auction link so I can track the price they go for?

LS77: My understanding is that baking basically just gets them broken in for your foot a lot faster and may optimize performance a few percentage points...but I doubt it makes the difference between being able to skate in them or not being able to skate in them satisfactorily. Open to correction from anybody more knowledgeable. I'm intending on trying them without baking and only baking if I like them to retain resale value. If anybody thinks trying them without baking won't be an accurate test to see whether I like them, please speak up, because I'm open to changing my mind and baking them first if that's the case.

DS: Online. Picked the perfect size, luckily. No complaints with how they feel without any tongue inserts.

Flip: Totally agree. The tendon guard can only make a difference at full extension and on how far out you can spread your front foot cutting. But from my reading online and from the Bauer promo clips, it seems to be marketed (together with the tongue inserts) as something that has the ability to magnify the energy in your stride. As stated previously, that makes no sense when the TG isn't even against your foot until full extension and I see no possible benefit in anything that limits forward ankle flexion...and it just wouldn't be worth the trade even to save a little energy retracting your foot, assuming that's the case for the sake of argument.

Anybody: Can someone tell me why the quoting feature won't work for me? Is there a minimum number of posts before I can use it or something? (Thanks.)

[LoneStar77 25]

My initial post was in response to Biggzy's post (forgot to quote it)...I'm a Vapor user & a relatively new skater, but I would think that if the skate weren't molded to your foot like it was designed to be that it would affect your skating at least a little bit. My understanding was the composite material used in the Supreme line did not break in the traditional way & had to be baked to fit correctly. Of course with that said, if the skate doesn't fit well baked or unbaked it isn't going to be a good skating experience.

[YesLanges 127]

Understood. I'm just skeptical that I need to bake them to find out whether I can still skate...or still skate and skate in them. I skated once about 5 years after my profile avatar was taken in the 91 season, and maybe a dozen times on wheels a few years after that, and never again since. The NXGs fit me great and I'd bake them if that might make the difference between being able to skate in them and not being able to, but if it's only slight difference, I'd probably want to preserve their unbaked resale value. As I said, earlier, I'm open to suggestion and if people more familiar with these than I am say I need to bake them just to see whether I can skate in them, I'll definitely do it.

[DarkStar50 679]

Top end skates have been designed to be baked for over a decade now in order to get the best possible fit for the highest skate performance. Until you are willing to commit to baking the skates and giving them an extended period of use to completely determine if you can skate in them, you will never know if these skates were the correct skate for you. One of the additional benefits of buying at a LHS is the opportunity to get the skates baked as part of the purchase. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have yet to even skate in T1 NXG skates and have no problem in doubting their features, benefits, and performance? A rather odd way to review a skate.......

[YesLanges 127]

Appreciate your input, DS, but I'm not presuming to "review" the skate at all and if I doubted their possible value, I wouldn't have plunked down $650 on them, right? Based on 15+ years skating and teaching skating, I have enough of a background to have an educated opinion on the theory of the "energy enhancement" principle of a flexing TG, and all I had to do to form an opinion of the possible downside of a stiff tongue insert was try them on with and without the inserts. Flip wasn't presuming to "judge" the skate either, but she explained exactly what I'm saying, just in more biomechanical language. The only thing a TG can possibly do to help your stride is stay out of the way at the end of it, and, as I said, I can't imagine any benefit to a tongue so stiff it limits forward ankle flexion. I value all opinions here about the significance of baking and I'll probably end up doing it. Just asking for other people's input and sharing mine on what I do know about. K?

[moreoutdoor 6]

Understood. I'm just skeptical that I need to bake them to find out whether I can still skate...or still skate and skate in them....

Top end skates have been designed to be baked for over a decade now in order to get the best possible fit for the highest skate performance. Until you are willing to commit to baking the skates and giving them an extended period of use to completely determine if you can skate in them, you will never know if these skates were the correct skate for you. One of the additional benefits of buying at a LHS is the opportunity to get the skates baked as part of the purchase. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have yet to even skate in T1 NXG skates and have no problem in doubting their features, benefits, and performance? A rather odd way to review a skate.......

Like DarkStar says, they should be baked. And Biggzy, the baking will make a HUGE difference - you should do it, the difference will be dramatic.

YesLanges - I've been on Langes since '72, still have my last pr of Lange Pros (steel holder) which I skate in occasionally, and were used in my 're-entry a few yrs back (stopped playing in 87-88 when I moved to CA,USA, now back on skates a few yrs ago). Until a month ago my Lange Pro IIs were being skated regular in the local pickups until I caught a puck on the boot shaft and it literally exploded. So I know (and luv) Langes. Also have been skating Grafs (605s) which skate great but just not my skate, and now Vapors and recently some NOS CCM Vector Pros. They're all great skates and ALL became some amplitude of much, much, much better, after they were baked. Still luv my Langes, but the new skates are better.

I do wish the new stuff had more progressive, predictable forward flexion (like the Langes) - maybe the next generation...

[YesLanges 127]

Appreciate the input, Door. OK, guess I'm baking them first. Re the Langes, my Laser 3s lasted for 15 years...after 10 years, the upper cuff cracked and I got another 5 years out of them by having someone replace them with the upper cuffs of a pair of molded Daousts. They finally fell apart the last time I skated on them in 95 or 96. BTW, I should have put a comma in my S/N, (Yes, Langes) because it's supposed to be an answer to "WTF are those...Langes?!"

The guy who just installed and profiled a set of TUUKs on them was the one who talked me into getting something new...he said comparing 1970s skates to modern skates is like comparing rotary phones to cell phones. So, I was expecting these new NXGs and APX-2s (returned) to feel incredibly better than these old Langes. Well, these new Bauers are definitely 100x more supportive than anything leather ever made and they're pretty comfortable for new skates, but guess what? They're nowhere near as comfortable as Langes outta the box...no contest. The new composite is impressive in that it needs no hinge and they're less than half the weight of the old Langes, and equally supportive. But the Langes actually have better ankle flexibility. if anything, the comparison only makes me appreciate how advanced these old tanks were for their time.

[flip12 714]

moreoutdoor and yeslanges, I've never skated in hinged boots like Langes, old Microns, etc., but I've noticed that when Pavel Bure moved from Microns to Grafs he went to 707's, and later when he was in Vapors, it looked like he barely laced the middle portion of the skate with any tension at all, perhaps so he could still get that same forward flex. I know pro's skates are essentially impossible to talk about accurately without knowing the specific skate you're talking about since they often vary greatly compared to the retail models they look like, but it does seem at least consistent enough in his skate choice to think about something like that in order to achieve more ankle flex. Just a thought.

Flip wasn't presuming to "judge" the skate either, but she explained exactly what I'm saying, just in more biomechanical language.

This made me smile, but just to clarify, that's not me in my avatar, just a photo I really like of Monika Jagaciak...

though I really do wish I were a millionaire jetsetter like her.

[Mattc555 22]

At the very least they might benefit from skipping the top eyelet. My Vapors felt incredibly strange until I did just that.

[YesLanges 127]

Still having no luck quoting on this forum, although I know how to use the function on other similar forums (appreciate any help with that), but this is to Matt:

If forward flex is the problem, skipping the last eyelet would be a solution. But if you're responding to Biggzy, that's the last thing he should do, because he's described already having too little lateral ankle support. Skipping the last eyelet would only make that (much) worse. I don't think anybody's complaining about forward flex...I was just suggesting that you get more from these NXGs by ditching the tongue inserts altogether. Flip's observation makes perfect sense, because PB apparently left his middle eyelets loose to increase forward flex while tying all the eyelets above to maintain maximum lateral support simultaneously.