I think it's time to find a new league.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

^ I have no question that lower level leagues are far more chippy/dirty. If you're playing in a full contact league, you're probably playing with decently skilled guys.

I'm tempted to give it another chance, but I just got an email from our goalie (who has actually been one of the more encouraging players on the team since I joined). He basically said the next game is against a former lower div team so I should be okay with that, but then we have a string of a couple games against much better (and much dirtier) teams. One of them has a tendancy to start fights. Only time I've seen a fight in a beer league was both times we played them in one season.

But he told me:

I like you and I like having you on the team, you've gotten a lot better since your first season. But I also see us having to play competitive teams with ringers, which is going to negatively impact the quality of your ice time. Looking out for your interests, it may be better to try div6 at iceoplex, but keep your moose gear and sub, or just come to the games you want to. The more you get to skate with the puck, the better you will get.

He's probably right - while I believe that playing against better players makes me better, positionally... more time skating with the puck is what I think I need right now. I *might* get a single shot on goal a game at this point. And if I'm lucky I'll skate with the puck maybe twice a game. 95% of the time, I'm just there to cover one of their guys but not do much else.

[LoneStar77 25]

^ I have no question that lower level leagues are far more chippy/dirty. If you're playing in a full contact league, you're probably playing with decently skilled guys.

I'm tempted to give it another chance, but I just got an email from our goalie (who has actually been one of the more encouraging players on the team since I joined). He basically said the next game is against a former lower div team so I should be okay with that, but then we have a string of a couple games against much better (and much dirtier) teams. One of them has a tendancy to start fights. Only time I've seen a fight in a beer league was both times we played them in one season.

But he told me:

He's probably right - while I believe that playing against better players makes me better, positionally... more time skating with the puck is what I think I need right now. I *might* get a single shot on goal a game at this point. And if I'm lucky I'll skate with the puck maybe twice a game. 95% of the time, I'm just there to cover one of their guys but not do much else.

If you move down because you're trying to get better, I can identify with that. I was playing with a team & I felt exactly like you do on the Moose - I played decent positionally, but wasn't good enough to do anything with the puck when up against the vast majority of the league (especially the ringers). I felt like I got the puck & someone immediately took it from me because they were just better all around. I'd pick up a couple of trash goals or get lucky on an odd man rush, but I didn't feel like I was contributing much. I finished the season, my team took the summer off & then ended up disbanding anyway. I moved down a division & now I have that extra half a second to catch a pass & make a decision on whether to carry the puck or make a pass. I'm still far from the best player on the ice every game, but I'm at least above average.

I like that the goalie says you're a good teammate & encourages you to come sub with them if you move down. Being a good teammate is a great asset, skilled or not, when you are paying to play (I've seen some slow, unskilled guys who take long shifts & do nothing but complain when something doesn't go their way or they don't like what the team coordinator tells them...that brings everyone on the bench down to a certain degree).

[donkers 31]

I HATED playing at SDIA. They seem to attract the douchebags in San Diego which is why I stopped showing up to their pick ups even though their rink is a lot closer drive for me (I live in PB). Not to mention their D3 only had 4 teams and I don't think they ever had more than that.

I've been playing up in Escondido for a couple years now. Even though gametimes are now on Wednesdays at least D2/3 has 8 teams which makes a big difference.

Which team did they place you on? I hope you now they recently combined 5 and 6.

And Grecia runs things a lot more smooth than Craig.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I HATED playing at SDIA. They seem to attract the douchebags in San Diego which is why I stopped showing up to their pick ups even though their rink is a lot closer drive for me (I live in PB). Not to mention their D3 only had 4 teams and I don't think they ever had more than that.

I've been playing up in Escondido for a couple years now. Even though gametimes are now on Wednesdays at least D2/3 has 8 teams which makes a big difference.

Which team did they place you on? I hope you now they recently combined 5 and 6.

And Grecia runs things a lot more smooth than Craig.

They don't even have a div 3 anymore. They have a small div 4, and a div 5a and div5b. It's pretty silly. I dont know why he doesn't just make it 3, 4 and 5. DERP.

I wouldn't even consider changing leagues unless it was staying Sundays. I'm far too often travelling during the week. Not paying a full season fee unless I get to play at least 3/4 of it.

I didn't know they combined 5 and 6... that's fine. 5 is probably more like 5b was at SDIA, according to the descriptions on the website (we had guys who had clearly been playing a long time, but didnt want to play competitively):

D-5 – Lower-intermediate players mixed with advanced-novice players with 3-10 yrs. of playing experience. Sunday night league.

D-6 - Novice players, beginners looking to have fun and learn skills mixed with advanced-novice players. Sunday night league.

I was hoping to get into D6, just so I might get more time to carry the puck and take more shots, but if they've combined it, I suppose I'd rather play on a former D5 team so we dont get squashed every game (and STILL dont get to carry the puck).

I'm not going to mention the team name of the team I was placed on until I've been able to talk to the captain to make sure he's okay with a new body ;)

As far as Grecia vs Craig... I can't imagine it getting any worse. Half the time we dont know what the schedule is until a few days before our game.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I didn't go tonight. I'm still pretty sick (have been the last few days). Considered going just to check them out and see if I might fit in, but I dunno. I'm kind of depressed about the whole thing. It's almost like me and golf. I live on a golf course but still haven't played on it. I used to play 3-4 times a week, but now it's kind of that "ugh... i dont want to start over again" feeling. I'm not sure if anyone can relate with that or not.

[wrangler 157]

You'll feel better about it when you're over being sick, and your energy level comes back. Focus on how you feel having a good time on the ice, and get your ass out there. And you had a good idea, to just head over there, to hang out for a while. Try it, if you have a chance, and you're not up to playing yet. It'll be good for your head.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

I think part of it is not knowing the facility. I've never actually been there. Maybe I'll check their public skating schedule and go tomorrow or Tuesday.

[wrangler 157]

I like to check out a new place when I can watch a game for a league that I'm considering.

[pittu 15]

I responded before reading the rest of the thread...so i will revise my response...

"I like you and I like having you on the team, you've gotten a lot better since your first season. But I also see us having to play competitive teams with ringers, which is going to negatively impact the quality of your ice time. Looking out for your interests, it may be better to try div6 at iceoplex, but keep your moose gear and sub, or just come to the games you want to. The more you get to skate with the puck, the better you will get."

THis ^^^ sounds almost exactly like an email I had to write prior to putting a roster together for our Intermediate level team. We had a gal play for us last season who just could not skate at the level we were playing at. I do not understand how it was any fun for her as she NEVER had any meaningful puck touches and could not keep up with play at all. She belonged in novice, it was not a question of whether we liked her, she was a peach. She was a drag on the team dynamics (putting lines together, etc) and we all decided it was in her interest and ours that she play the novice level.

It sounds like your team is moving to a faster game and they dont think you are ready for it. I apologize if that sounds harsh, but that is what I read into the email you got. I'd take his advice and start looking for a team at a lower level to play on. JMO.....

BTW, I am not comparing you to the gal on our team....I've never seen you play

[IPv6Freely 2092]

You have it backwards. They're not telling me to move down. I was on a team that moved up (they didn't want to, the league director made them - and justified it by adding 3 hotshot kids that REALLY dont belong), and I don't like the new pace of play. I told him I was moving to a new lower league, and he was agreeing that it may be a good idea. Sort of similar to your situation, but not quite.

[wrangler 157]

One negative with lower level is that with some of those leagues, there's not a lot of hockey sense. I'd rather play up a level with folks that play position, look up for an open teammate to pass to, and coordinate as a team, even if I don't get the puck as much.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

It's a fine line to walk, that's for sure. There is absolutely no question that I grow positionally playing in a higher division. But at some point I need to learn other things, like how to stickhandle and how to shoot. I've still never taken a slap shot in a game before. I *might* get one SOG per game at this point. I think some more puck carrying time would do me some good.

That said, I still haven't been able to get to the rink. I just... don't feel like it. I was going to go to pickup last night and just didn't feel like it. I dunno.

I'm considering running up to hockeymonkey and buying a new stick... maybe that will get me excited to get back on the ice.

[Chadd 916]

You can improve as a player playing against competition that is slightly better or slightly worse than you. If the gap is too large in either direction, it usually seems to hold back your growth. As for the slapshot, don't even think about that. If you're playing forward, you shouldn't be getting many chances to use that shot and working on it will just hold back other aspects of your game that you should be working on. I know it's the "sexy" shot and everyone wants to have a blazing slapper, but it really isn't all that useful.

[akravetz 29]

our league is forming up right now for the winter and we too are a no contact league. We have checking (even though we shouldn't) and we have the meatheads with the visors and who think there is an NHL scout in the stands. Last year, we had one guy who sandbagged the entire game, our team was up by two with five minutes to go and he just went end to end in two minutes and scored. The point is there are idiots everywhere. I think giving the league a second chance is wise and talking to your teammates about the concerns.

My team, I am proud to say, is among the worst in the league for the regular season but we have fun, don't let it get to us and enjoy the game. Just see how it goes and if it gets really bad, make it a point not to react. And if you still hate it, move to Peoria, Ill.. Our team will take ya.

Andy in Peoria

[IPv6Freely 2092]

You can improve as a player playing against competition that is slightly better or slightly worse than you. If the gap is too large in either direction, it usually seems to hold back your growth. As for the slapshot, don't even think about that. If you're playing forward, you shouldn't be getting many chances to use that shot and working on it will just hold back other aspects of your game that you should be working on. I know it's the "sexy" shot and everyone wants to have a blazing slapper, but it really isn't all that useful.

No question, I don't care TOO much about the slap shot, but I still think I should be able to do it. I also don't know how to take a proper wrist or snapshot - again, never had a chance in game to do it.

As far as the league skill level, I agree with that also. Like I said, it's a fine balance I need to reach. If I go to this other league and it's not right for me, then I'll probably just go back to my old team. If I'm going to be playing against higher skilled guys, I might as well be with them. There was another guy who was about my skill level, and he's staying... It was more the "think its a stanley cup final" thing I hated more than the skill level itself. I did okay out there. Dug pucks out, blocked the odd shot from the point, did what I was supposed to do. It was just more "intense" than "difficult", if that makes any sense.

I just think maybe a season in a lower level might help with my puck handling, pass-making and shot-taking development. In the higher league, as soon as I got the puck, it'd be stripped away pretty much immediately. I ended up making a lot of bad passes because I just didn't have time to think before I acted. I'm hoping to improve my "vision" a bit better.

our league is forming up right now for the winter and we too are a no contact league. We have checking (even though we shouldn't) and we have the meatheads with the visors and who think there is an NHL scout in the stands. Last year, we had one guy who sandbagged the entire game, our team was up by two with five minutes to go and he just went end to end in two minutes and scored. The point is there are idiots everywhere. I think giving the league a second chance is wise and talking to your teammates about the concerns.

My team, I am proud to say, is among the worst in the league for the regular season but we have fun, don't let it get to us and enjoy the game. Just see how it goes and if it gets really bad, make it a point not to react. And if you still hate it, move to Peoria, Ill.. Our team will take ya.

Andy in Peoria

haha yeah, there are definitely idiots everywhere. But this league my old team moved into isn't just IDIOTS per se, the intensity level is just way up there. I want to be competitive, but skill level isn't the only thing that should dictate where a team is placed. Our team doesn't WANT to be in a higher level because we're just there to have fun. Hell, our captain has a beer BEFORE every game while in the dressing room.

The director added three hotshots to our team to justify the move (we were regularly getting 8 guys to every game, so I guess he decided he could add these hotshot kids and bump us up a division.) Our 1-1-0 record, with the loss coming against a lower-division team, clearly indicated we should be moving up..... sigh.

Whatever, I'll give the new league a shot. See what I want to do after this season.

Oh, and I did buy a new stick... hoping that makes me want to actually get back on the ice.

[akravetz 29]

well, look at the bright side, you got a new stick.....

Andy in Peoria.

[black hills tj 5]

No question, I don't care TOO much about the slap shot, but I still think I should be able to do it. I also don't know how to take a proper wrist or snapshot - again, never had a chance in game to do it.

As far as the league skill level, I agree with that also. Like I said, it's a fine balance I need to reach. If I go to this other league and it's not right for me, then I'll probably just go back to my old team. If I'm going to be playing against higher skilled guys, I might as well be with them. There was another guy who was about my skill level, and he's staying... It was more the "think its a stanley cup final" thing I hated more than the skill level itself. I did okay out there. Dug pucks out, blocked the odd shot from the point, did what I was supposed to do. It was just more "intense" than "difficult", if that makes any sense.

I just think maybe a season in a lower level might help with my puck handling, pass-making and shot-taking development. In the higher league, as soon as I got the puck, it'd be stripped away pretty much immediately. I ended up making a lot of bad passes because I just didn't have time to think before I acted. I'm hoping to improve my "vision" a bit better.

haha yeah, there are definitely idiots everywhere. But this league my old team moved into isn't just IDIOTS per se, the intensity level is just way up there. I want to be competitive, but skill level isn't the only thing that should dictate where a team is placed. Our team doesn't WANT to be in a higher level because we're just there to have fun. Hell, our captain has a beer BEFORE every game while in the dressing room.

The director added three hotshots to our team to justify the move (we were regularly getting 8 guys to every game, so I guess he decided he could add these hotshot kids and bump us up a division.) Our 1-1-0 record, with the loss coming against a lower-division team, clearly indicated we should be moving up..... sigh.

Whatever, I'll give the new league a shot. See what I want to do after this season.

Oh, and I did buy a new stick... hoping that makes me want to actually get back on the ice.

What'd you get? Huh? Huh? Everyone wants to know!

[IPv6Freely 2092]

What'd you get? Huh? Huh? Everyone wants to know!

Reebok Ai.5, 75 flex, Datsyuk pattern, grip. :)

[wrangler 157]

Don't wait until you've got the puck to think about where to pass. Try to develop an ongoing awareness of where your teammates are, and where they should be. Plan the possible passes while you're going after the puck, especially if you don't expect to have much time to make the pass. Also consider a quick juke to one side, which could buy another second or so, as soon as you touch the puck.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Agreed, thats the sense I'm trying to work on. A lower division may give me just a split second longer to act and make a good play. Hopefully that develops over time.

One thing I really need to work on, which is tough without a coach, is the breakout pass. In lower leagues, there is no "standard" D to W to C breakout. It just never happens. Usually its D making a quick pass to a winger who is at about center ice. I miss those every single time. If I'm lucky I'm able to get a piece of it so it's not icing. I'm also AWFUL at taking a pass on the rush from behind me. Beer league positioning is almost harder than higher div, because the play is never what you're expecting, and completely unpredictable.

EDIT: yay this is my 1000th post on MSH!!!

[wrangler 157]

That's exactly the hockey sense I'm talking about, that can be missing in a lower level league. It can be more of a free-for-all, and you have to just find open space and hope for a pass, or, on D, find an open man to cover.

Sometimes it's good just to practice passing before a game. It can help relax you, when the real thing comes your way. At home, use a junk stick and a wall, with a ball, to work on your reactions.

I know the feeling about missing the passes on a rush. Too often, I'm looking back for a pass, waiting, and finally have to glance ahead where I'm going, and that's when the pass comes. Easiest is the rare occasion when I just happen to break alone. I don't have to look back then, because a good teammate just lays a soft pass out there, passing me, and slowing in front of me. I can skate into that easily, and continue for a breakaway. The last time that happened for me, it was a perfect setup, with a teammate getting the puck alone behind our net, another teammate wide open halfway up the right boards, and me between the right circle and the blue line. As soon as I saw that, I just tucked down and went like hell, since all the opponents were caught low in our zone. I kept going, and the play was executed perfectly, up to the wing, and a soft pass that appeared in front of me. And by some miracle, I fired it from the circle, and hit the post. I couldn't do it again on a bet. (There was no goalie, so it was hit the post or crossbar to score).

[Chadd 916]

Agreed, thats the sense I'm trying to work on. A lower division may give me just a split second longer to act and make a good play. Hopefully that develops over time.

One thing I really need to work on, which is tough without a coach, is the breakout pass. In lower leagues, there is no "standard" D to W to C breakout. It just never happens. Usually its D making a quick pass to a winger who is at about center ice. I miss those every single time. If I'm lucky I'm able to get a piece of it so it's not icing. I'm also AWFUL at taking a pass on the rush from behind me. Beer league positioning is almost harder than higher div, because the play is never what you're expecting, and completely unpredictable.

One thing I frequently see people screw up; if you have open ice or a little space, don't skate right up to a defender before you make a play. I see guys with 10-20' of space skate right up to the defender and then try to pass or shoot it through him.

As for breakout passes, the defenseman should never see your number on a breakout pass. If he can, then you aren't giving him a target to hit. If you catch the pass on your forehand, lean the face towards the ice and put a little pressure on the stick to "trap" the puck. Same thing with the backhand if you are catching it on that side. With the backhand, also consider where on the blade you are catching the puck. You want to catch it on the flattest part of the blade or it will deflect off in some other direction.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

That's exactly the hockey sense I'm talking about, that can be missing in a lower level league. It can be more of a free-for-all, and you have to just find open space and hope for a pass, or, on D, find an open man to cover.

Sometimes it's good just to practice passing before a game. It can help relax you, when the real thing comes your way. At home, use a junk stick and a wall, with a ball, to work on your reactions.

I know the feeling about missing the passes on a rush. Too often, I'm looking back for a pass, waiting, and finally have to glance ahead where I'm going, and that's when the pass comes. Easiest is the rare occasion when I just happen to break alone. I don't have to look back then, because a good teammate just lays a soft pass out there, passing me, and slowing in front of me. I can skate into that easily, and continue for a breakaway. The last time that happened for me, it was a perfect setup, with a teammate getting the puck alone behind our net, another teammate wide open halfway up the right boards, and me between the right circle and the blue line. As soon as I saw that, I just tucked down and went like hell, since all the opponents were caught low in our zone. I kept going, and the play was executed perfectly, up to the wing, and a soft pass that appeared in front of me. And by some miracle, I fired it from the circle, and hit the post. I couldn't do it again on a bet. (There was no goalie, so it was hit the post or crossbar to score).

I like the idea of doing some passing before a game. Usually the entire warmup is spent firing slapshots at the goalie. I usually break off and skate and stickhandle a bit, but passing with somebody would be good to just get in the groove.

One thing I frequently see people screw up; if you have open ice or a little space, don't skate right up to a defender before you make a play. I see guys with 10-20' of space skate right up to the defender and then try to pass or shoot it through him.

As for breakout passes, the defenseman should never see your number on a breakout pass. If he can, then you aren't giving him a target to hit. If you catch the pass on your forehand, lean the face towards the ice and put a little pressure on the stick to "trap" the puck. Same thing with the backhand if you are catching it on that side. With the backhand, also consider where on the blade you are catching the puck. You want to catch it on the flattest part of the blade or it will deflect off in some other direction.

Maybe that's part of the problem then. I try to be skating forward when I take a pass from D so I can carry it. But then he has no target. Should I instead be standing still, take the pass, and look to dish it off, and only skate if I have room to gain speed (I'm a VERY slow skater).

Thanks for the tip on leaning the stick forward. I never really thought to do that. Half the passes I get just end up deflecting. No control.

[Chadd 916]

I usually play defense and I tell my forwards that I want a target to hit with a pass. If they're skating away from me, their body blocks my angle to their stick. Fortunately, I'm very good at banking the puck off the boards and hitting their stick anyway, but that's not an ideal play all the time. If you're on the opposite side of the ice from the defenseman that has the puck, angle towards the middle, to make it easier to catch/handle the pass. If you are on the same side as the defenseman with the puck, make sure their guy isn't trying to hold the puck at the blue line, then release to look for a pass. Turning to skate backwards while you look for a pass is often a good option in a no check league. You need to see the lane between you and the defenseman with the puck. A lot of guys find themselves in open space and think they're open, but without the passing lane to get the puck to you, that space around you doesn't matter.

[danno25nh 3]

I try to move at 45 degrees across the ice while giving the D'man a good target with my stick. Looking back for the puck is never a good idea.